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Strata Maslav
V0LTA Triumvirate.
127
|
Posted - 2015.07.14 20:10:12 -
[1] - Quote
Heres my suggestion for fixing links and making command ships interesting to flying.
Links should be an active targeted effect. (Like EWAR)
Nerf Passive Bonuses The passive links that a character gives to a fleet should be nerfed (halved?) and the leadership skills buffed by the command ship passive(should require no module). So the fleet gets a passive 15% bonus to tank or speed just for being in fleet with the command ship.
Targeted Buffs If the commandship is on field, they can lock and activate modules to give buffs to specific fleet members (similar to the way friendly logistics ships work).
In order to give the additional bonus to the tackler's speed for example, the command ship pilot must target his ally and active the speed link module on him (CCP can decide on the effective range and bonus amount).
So in theory you can have a command ship off field and receive a significantly reduced bonus but if they are on field they can give your fleet a significant advantage to individual pilots. You would have multiple command ships on field trying to ensure that your lachesis are getting point range and that the primary is getting their tank resistances buffed.
Examples
Is that interdictor running in to get a bubble on their fleet? He can call out, and I buff his tank and speed before he makes his run in.
My fleet member is getting premiered? I can give him buff to his active resists and then give a buff to my logistics friend to give him stronger and faster reps.
Not only does this address the issue of off-grid boosts but adds a new active role for pilots to interact with allies who can make meaningful decisions.
PS: give them slots for dedicated slots for weapons so you can shoot stuff in your command ship at the same time! |

Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
196
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Posted - 2015.07.14 20:32:14 -
[2] - Quote
So you want to make command ships to be insta locking? As that is the only way one will lock that frig in time to make giving it a speed boost to matter. |

Torvalis Moschino
Ruby Sunrise
0
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Posted - 2015.07.14 20:36:23 -
[3] - Quote
I'll do you one better on the targeted buff idea. If a pilot wants the Boosts they have to target the command ship, call it a data link or what ever. You gain some things. 1) you tie up a Lock on the ship receiving the boosts. 2) you limit the range a boosts can be passed by the virtue of lock range. 3) you can now jam/damp out boosts. 4) would require boosts to be on grid and mobile. 5) pilot receiving boost may inadvertently FF the booster.
any other sort of targeted buff/boost just seems like logi to me. and we are looking for other ideas. Leadership skills would remain the same. module power level would remain the same. all you would really need to do is have a check in targeting that says "is this ship I am locked my fleet booster" Y = boosts, N = no boosts for you! out of range, no boosts. off grid, no boosts, jammed/damped, no boosts.
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3598
|
Posted - 2015.07.14 21:30:03 -
[4] - Quote
Why the hell would you want to lock up a dictor on a run? How's he going to cloak up on the exit?
This would put a serious hole in incursion running, as well as making links all but worthless in anything beyond small gang honoure brawls. |

Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1501
|
Posted - 2015.07.14 21:40:19 -
[5] - Quote
The concept is a little too narrow for what boosters are used for. The idea is ok but it's pretty limiting that the booster turns solely into a targeting buffbot (ain't much different to its current duty of afk alt buffbot), but it needs a better concept.
Yaay!!!!
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Strata Maslav
V0LTA Triumvirate.
127
|
Posted - 2015.07.14 21:51:35 -
[6] - Quote
Quote:If a pilot wants the Boosts they have to target the command ship, call it a data link or what ever.
This is one option but it would be difficult for ships like frigates to keep the command ship locked with their short lock ranges and mobility.
If the command ship provides effective targeted boosts then he has to be active and is a engaging role on the battlefield where as the other way around, he might as well be afk again.
Quote:This would put a serious hole in incursion running, as well as making links all but worthless in anything beyond small gang honoure brawls.
Yes this is probably a nerf to AFK off-grid links, I am of the opinion that they are needing to fixed. Theoretically because links would be targeted you could actually buff the amount of bonus they give so theoretically if you boosted the ship being targeted by the rats in the incursion he would have more tank then before. |

Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
267
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Posted - 2015.07.14 22:18:51 -
[7] - Quote
love it. +1
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Strata Maslav
V0LTA Triumvirate.
127
|
Posted - 2015.07.14 22:22:13 -
[8] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:The concept is a little too narrow for what boosters are used for. The idea is ok but it's pretty limiting that the booster turns solely into a targeting buffbot (ain't much different to its current duty of afk alt buffbot), but it needs a better concept.
Of course I am not trying reinvent the wheel here with this idea, just fix a problem which a lot of people have seen issue with.
This concept would take the role of the booster from an off-grid afk alt, to an on grid 'main character' role within the fleet.
There are a lot of other things that you could do with an active command ship if you think the idea is too vanilla:
- give him the ability to passively "Ship Scan" the enemy ships at extreme range to check for fittings and capacitor
- give projected ECCM which makes a targeted ship immune to ECM, Damps, or even Webs for 5 seconds on a 15 second CD (Like a dispel in other mmos) |

Strata Maslav
V0LTA Triumvirate.
127
|
Posted - 2015.07.14 22:27:01 -
[9] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:So you want to make command ships to be insta locking? As that is the only way one will lock that frig in time to make giving it a speed boost to matter.
Well the pilot could fit Sensor boosters if he was flying with frigates or they could communicate with their fleet mates and watch the fight to see who might be in need of help.
I'll leave specifics of fine balance as to what lock speed would be balanced but I am sure lock speed is an important metric. |

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3599
|
Posted - 2015.07.14 22:38:08 -
[10] - Quote
Strata Maslav wrote: Yes this is probably a nerf to AFK off-grid links, I am of the opinion that they are needing to fixed. Theoretically because links would be targeted you could actually buff the amount of bonus they give so theoretically if you boosted the ship being targeted by the rats in the incursion he would have more tank then before.
While also boosting all your logi and webbing ships too? Tank isn't the only think links boost.
To be honest, if you want links removed you should ask for it outright. Ideas like this, that make them worthless in gangs of more than ten at the absolute most, and wreck their use even in PVE, are just dancing around the point. |

Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
424
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Posted - 2015.07.14 23:03:30 -
[11] - Quote
Cut the train time in half and sure. Otherwise they need to be aoe at least. -1
The Law is a point of View
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Strata Maslav
V0LTA Triumvirate.
127
|
Posted - 2015.07.14 23:11:06 -
[12] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Strata Maslav wrote: Yes this is probably a nerf to AFK off-grid links, I am of the opinion that they are needing to fixed. Theoretically because links would be targeted you could actually buff the amount of bonus they give so theoretically if you boosted the ship being targeted by the rats in the incursion he would have more tank then before.
While also boosting all your logi and webbing ships too? Tank isn't the only think links boost. To be honest, if you want links removed you should ask for it outright. Ideas like this, that make them worthless in gangs of more than ten at the absolute most, and wreck their use even in PVE, are just dancing around the point.
For larger fleets you might need multiple command ships. Who is to say that because the links are now targeted that they don't amount to a greater bonus then they are currently.
As they do currently, links ships have multiple command modules. For example lets say you have 4 link modules:
x1 siege link which you put on the target the rats are focusing that increases his buffer, resistance, and the amount of remote repairs he's receiving x1 seige link not running so you can instantly apply it to the next fleet mate start taking damage x2 skirmish running on your webbing ships
Not perfect, but probably workable. The question is whether or not CCP will nerf PvE damage when they decide to nerf links. |

Strata Maslav
V0LTA Triumvirate.
127
|
Posted - 2015.07.14 23:19:25 -
[13] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:Cut the train time in half and sure. Otherwise they need to be aoe at least. -1
It does depend on how powerful they are, but arguably all link scale too strongly with SP. Due to the way skill requirement for modules/implants and the way bonuses are calculated there is a massive discrepancy between low and high SP links.
In a redesign I would like to see the route that CCP took with adding T1 logi frigs and cruisers. They arent as strong as T1 logi arent as strong as T2 but they are extremely effective for the cost. |

Strata Maslav
V0LTA Triumvirate.
129
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 02:03:03 -
[14] - Quote
A bit of a side idea related to command ships, is the idea of adding an integrated ship scanner to the hull.
With large range the command ship pilot could provide intel on ship fittings and capacitor.
Ship Scanners have seen use in WH space especially on energy neuting ships but the engagement are normally fought at short range so are within 60km effective.
Null sec fights tend to take place across a large grid so a range bonus would be important. A hull integrated scanner is important so module bonus wouldn't disadvantage shield doctrines by occupying an important mid slot.
It is only when information available can we make decisions based on reason, action without reason is just stabbing in the dark. |

FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1304
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 02:09:45 -
[15] - Quote
I like it.
Now, a couple of thoughts... All Command Ships should get 8 high slots, with four turret or launcher hardpoints (100% weapon bonus). Each targeted command link boosts all three attributes for that type (siege, armor, skirmish, information, mining). For example, when I activate the targeted siege boost module on a ship, it gets the benefit to cycle time, cap use, and resistances. Thus, each command ship can buff 4-8 other ships, depending on whether it gives up damage potential.
No more than one targeted link module of the same type applies to the targeted ship (e.g. If multiple siege link modules target the ship, only the strongest one applies).
Training time gets considerably reduced, but the modules get stronger the higher you train the skills. One possibility is that training the skill higher lets you buff at a longer range. Perhaps at Siege Warfare Specialist V you could buff at up to 250 km (still subject to lock range of course). Or whatever range is appropriate...
The T1 Battle Cruisers also get similar treatment. They all get 8 high slots, with 6 weapon hardpoints and an appropriate damage bonus.
Add another T2 destroyer hull, which can provide smaller boosts, but can keep up with frigate gangs and enter the appropriate FW plexes.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Strata Maslav
V0LTA Triumvirate.
129
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 02:33:55 -
[16] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:I like it.
Thus, each command ship can buff 4-8 other ships, depending on whether it gives up damage potential.
The reason I was sat at 4 initially was experience flying logistics. If you are doing it right you are using all 3 or 4 of your repairers when you need counter and ally getting primary'ed and then slowly turn off the repairers when you see him holding so you can prepare for the next target to broadcast.
So if you had 4 you might have 2 that you are leaving to constantly boost active member such an FC so there is a reduced chance of him getting alpha before you can react or a Lachesis pilot for increased point range. The other two you might save for reactionary targets.
At maximum you are only going to be able to deal with probably 2 or 3 reactionary target at a time but if there are more key pilot that you need a constant buff on field you might consider swapping out the guns. The alternative is to bringing multiple command ships and spreading the load so you can boost and still enjoy the pew pew.
FT Diomedes wrote: Add another T2 destroyer hull, which can provide smaller boosts, but can keep up with frigate gangs and enter the appropriate FW plexes
A T2 command destroy would definitely be great addition to the roster, providing one or two boosts would definately improve the viability of smaller scale roaming gangs when BCs or Tech 3s are too slow and expensive. |

FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1304
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 03:07:46 -
[17] - Quote
I like the flexibility of going up to eight. If someone wants to basically have one CS per squad of logistics ships, that's an option. In the alternative, that person could also choose to put both Siege and Skirmish bonuses on only 2-4 ships. Either way, it brings the CS on grid and makes the pilot take an active role in keeping his friends alive.
Also, it goes without saying that the Command Processor would need to be repurposed or go away completely.
As for the Tech 3 Cruisers, they retain the slightly weaker bonuses to three different boost types, but are limited to six max high slots in a boosting configuration.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
424
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 03:58:05 -
[18] - Quote
Problem with this whole idea is it is pushing hard at a 'fly abso's and slieps and nothing else' environment. Squads have 10 peeps in them, wings have 50. So you'd likely need 3 commandships per squad at least for optimal links coverage, doing nothing but f1-f8 on friendlies then not much else til the end of the fight. This doesn't really solve the 'make boosting engaging' and meaningful problem. Any boosting command ship is still gonna go full links and maybe smart bombs with an eccm package so their links don't drop then tank and more tank. Grid fu aside, a method of making grid being the defining factor would be ideal.
The Law is a point of View
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1305
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 06:29:20 -
[19] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:Problem with this whole idea is it is pushing hard at a 'fly abso's and slieps and nothing else' environment. Squads have 10 peeps in them, wings have 50. So you'd likely need 3 commandships per squad at least for optimal links coverage, doing nothing but f1-f8 on friendlies then not much else til the end of the fight. This doesn't really solve the 'make boosting engaging' and meaningful problem. Any boosting command ship is still gonna go full links and maybe smart bombs with an eccm package so their links don't drop then tank and more tank. Grid fu aside, a method of making grid being the defining factor would be ideal.
How is this different than flying a Logistics ship? No one ever complains that flying a Logistics ship is boring.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
196
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 07:39:04 -
[20] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Kenrailae wrote:Problem with this whole idea is it is pushing hard at a 'fly abso's and slieps and nothing else' environment. Squads have 10 peeps in them, wings have 50. So you'd likely need 3 commandships per squad at least for optimal links coverage, doing nothing but f1-f8 on friendlies then not much else til the end of the fight. This doesn't really solve the 'make boosting engaging' and meaningful problem. Any boosting command ship is still gonna go full links and maybe smart bombs with an eccm package so their links don't drop then tank and more tank. Grid fu aside, a method of making grid being the defining factor would be ideal. How is this different than flying a Logistics ship? No one ever complains that flying a Logistics ship is boring.
they do all the time. logi is boring and the added fact we aren't on kills is just dalt in the wounds. The only time logi isn't boring is when there is actually a close fight between the 2 sides which doesn't always happen. |

Amarisen Gream
Divine Demise
89
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 07:53:46 -
[21] - Quote
TL:DR all the above bull shiz.
For those of you who don't follow the "developer" subgroup
CCP is working on a system called brain in a box. The reason why boost have reminded system wide and not on grid is do to the way the game called data. If CCP was to take their current system and go to on grid boost - it would have to check for the booster, ship getting boost and like 400 other things. Makes a lot of work for the server.
Brain in the Box is going to change how the system calls for info - My understanding is that it will be a type of sub-server It will(suspose to) reduced massive fleet TIDI when jumping into a system. As the current system has to recall every skill a player has and how those skills effect the ship they are in each time they jump. Under BiaB, if the player hasn't changed ships or w/e the system will just pull from the sub-server reducing its load. There is a lot more to it. I would advise you all to jump over to the developer forums (third party tools) and check it out. Post sometime last year I think.
xoxo
Amarisen Gream
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1305
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 09:34:03 -
[22] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Kenrailae wrote:Problem with this whole idea is it is pushing hard at a 'fly abso's and slieps and nothing else' environment. Squads have 10 peeps in them, wings have 50. So you'd likely need 3 commandships per squad at least for optimal links coverage, doing nothing but f1-f8 on friendlies then not much else til the end of the fight. This doesn't really solve the 'make boosting engaging' and meaningful problem. Any boosting command ship is still gonna go full links and maybe smart bombs with an eccm package so their links don't drop then tank and more tank. Grid fu aside, a method of making grid being the defining factor would be ideal. How is this different than flying a Logistics ship? No one ever complains that flying a Logistics ship is boring. they do all the time. logi is boring and the added fact we aren't on kills is just dalt in the wounds. The only time logi isn't boring is when there is actually a close fight between the 2 sides which doesn't always happen.
The only time being DPS is not boring is when there is actually a close fight between the two sides, which does not always happen.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Strata Maslav
V0LTA Triumvirate.
129
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 13:53:40 -
[23] - Quote
Amarisen Gream wrote:TL:DR all the above bull shiz.
For those of you who don't follow the "developer" subgroup
CCP is working on a system called brain in a box. The reason why boost have reminded system wide and not on grid is do to the way the game called data. If CCP was to take their current system and go to on grid boost - it would have to check for the booster, ship getting boost and like 400 other things. Makes a lot of work for the server.
I understand that this is in the pipeline and having them on grid is definitely an improvement, but I still feel like even that improvement doesn't very dynamic role in the fleets.
I feel like I have said this way too much over the last day, but enjoyment & satisfaction of fleet fights really comes down to allowing pilots being required to meaningful decisions.
The command ship lands on grid, turning on their command links and tank, and anchor up job done. Sit back drink a beer and watch for the overview to see if the enemy ships lock you up and then broadcast.
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Tykonderoga
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
51
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Posted - 2015.07.15 14:06:13 -
[24] - Quote
Wow, what a horrible idea this op has. |

Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
424
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 14:08:49 -
[25] - Quote
That's lazy fitting. You can fit ewar, some damage, neuts, drones, many things to utilize those commandship slots
The Law is a point of View
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Strata Maslav
V0LTA Triumvirate.
130
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 14:09:03 -
[26] - Quote
Tykonderoga wrote:Wow, what a horrible idea this op has.
Care to elaborate? |

Strata Maslav
V0LTA Triumvirate.
130
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 14:23:47 -
[27] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote:That's lazy fitting. You can fit ewar, some damage, neuts, drones, many things to utilise those commandship slots
I agree armour command ships might have 1 or 2 slot available to fit some unbonused ewar and smartbombs and neuts are interesting but situational especially in larger engagements.
What I am trying to theorise is a unique active role which allows to influence a fight based on their actions. I think we can agree that logistics/triage is probably one of the more engaging roles to take in a fleet, you have to watch your watch lists and broadcast and at times decide which target you are going to prioritise for repairs.
What would be great would be more roles in EVE that are similar to the engagement level of logistics. |

Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
424
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 14:32:12 -
[28] - Quote
Strata Maslav wrote:Kenrailae wrote:That's lazy fitting. You can fit ewar, some damage, neuts, drones, many things to utilise those commandship slots I agree armour command ships might have 1 or 2 slot available to fit some unbonused ewar and smartbombs and neuts are interesting but situational especially in larger engagements. What I am trying to theorise is a unique active role which allows to influence a fight based on their actions. I think we can agree that logistics/triage is probably one of the more engaging roles to take in a fleet, you have to watch your watch lists and broadcast and at times decide which target you are going to prioritise for repairs. What would be great would be more roles in EVE that are similar to the engagement level of logistics. But this idea doesn't. All it does is say 'okay bring more commandships and activate then forget'
The Law is a point of View
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Strata Maslav
V0LTA Triumvirate.
130
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 14:51:49 -
[29] - Quote
Kenrailae wrote: But this idea doesn't. All it does is say 'okay bring more commandships and activate then forget'
Its is definitely a possibility but is probably a less effective use of pilots.
Capacitor is the first resource you could use to limit this and probably the most simple. You can run maybe 2 out of your 4 link permanently but would have to pulse the other two when they are needed.
Another alternative would be charges with a short reload. You could easily keep a single target buffed with two modules but it would require management.
I did not want to over complicate the system and make it more tedious but you could possibly add a degradation of the bonus of consecutive cycles (similar to how the Reactive Armor Hardener works).
I dislike that idea because it sounds tedious if the cycles are too short and yet if the module cycle is too long module is clumsy to use.
So there are already examples of ways to limit AFK links. |

Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
424
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 14:56:34 -
[30] - Quote
Strata Maslav wrote:Kenrailae wrote: But this idea doesn't. All it does is say 'okay bring more commandships and activate then forget'
Its is definitely a possibility but is probably a less effective use of pilots. Capacitor is the first resource you could use to limit this and probably the most simple. You can run maybe 2 out of your 4 link permanently but would have to pulse the other two when they are needed. Another alternative would be charges with a short reload. You could easily keep a single target buffed with two modules but it would require management. I did not want to over complicate the system and make it more tedious but you could possibly add a degradation of the bonus of consecutive cycles (similar to how the Reactive Armor Hardener works). I dislike that idea because it sounds tedious if the cycles are too short and yet if the module cycle is too long module is clumsy to use. So there are already examples of ways to limit AFK links. No. -1 now you're just tossing more and more bad onto an already not good idea
The Law is a point of View
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