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Jollyreaper
Gallente Ace Adventure Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.01 04:34:00 -
[1]
Thinking back to historical pirates, they faced a lot of challenges. They could not show their faces in civilized areas, they were under constant threat of attack by navies, and it was hard work prospecting for targets.
Piracy should be a challenging profession in EVE rather than something any ol' pilot can play at. Because the reward for piracy can be so high, the risk has to be correspondingly bad. There are some mechanisms for this sort of thing in place: bounties, standings, etc, but the pirates are still having it a bit easy.
Historically speaking, pirates never accounted for a significant percentage of the ships sailing the seas. Realistically, they couldn't. If pirates made trade too risky, merchants would place their money in other ventures. They were not interested in providing pirate welfare.
That is the same social dynamic pirates will have to be mindful of within EVE. If the threat is low enough, PVE players will make the run to scary space to try their luck. Alternatively, if the reward is made high enough, they'll be willing to face more of a piate threat.
I would agree with the critique made that there is too big of a gap between PVE and PVP setups. The pirate knows the kind of fight he wants and is equipped for it. A mission-runner is setup differently and can only hope that he doesn't get jumped. My chosen combat strategy at the moment is running in blind terror since I don't yet have the skills to make fighting look like anything approaching a sane option. I'd be a lot more interested in fighting if I thought it would be anything other than a vigorous buggery session. Scramblers mean that you're going to be committed to the fight. The stab nerfing means that if you're equipped to avoid the fight, you're still incapable of running combat missions. That would work for couriers and traders but is not so good for combat missions.
People argue back and forth as to whether EVE has the right balance when it comes to a kill penalty. WoW makes dying relatively painless whereas EVE makes you feel the loss like a limb just got cut off. It certainly adds to the drama of the fight but it also makes people a lot more reticent about committing to fights when the odds are in question.
It's a gigantic tough balancing issue. I hope CCP eventually finds a happy medium.
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Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.01 04:47:00 -
[2]
Pirating is difficult enough as it is, unfortunately too many pilots are simply brain-dead and will sit there while their ship is being destroyed with their jaws hanging and wonder what happened afterwards. A stupid pirate is not a pirate who will make any decent amount of isk or kills.
Last Weeks Signature |
Deaths Wisper
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.12.01 04:49:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Deaths Wisper on 01/12/2006 04:49:20 ....after seeing the cig your post makes more sense..have you ever tried to actually pirate? you spend hours jumping around looking for a single target and never know how he's going to be fitted or if he has friends. you may hit the jackpot and find some pvp noob with t2 guns but most of the time you risk all your nice stuff and come out with trash..if you go into low sec or even better yet .0 with a pve setup you had it comming.
"I'd be a lot more interested in fighting if I thought it would be anything other than a vigorous buggery session. Scramblers mean that you're going to be committed to the fight. The stab nerfing means that if you're equipped to avoid the fight."
"I can't run anymore and i refuse to fit for pvp in case of a fight while trotting around in low sec(or bring a single wing man?) and this urks meh"
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Devilish Ledoux
Caldari eXin Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.01 04:52:00 -
[4]
I've remarked on several occasions that space piracy should have a bit more realism. And most of the changes with Ka-*ahem* Revelations do add a bit more realism.
Examples:
Ships can warp directly to a stargate. It's quite believable that starship engineers can calibrate warp engines to transport a ship close enough to a gate for an immediate jump. Besides, stargates are the Roman Highway of Eve. It doesn't make sense for the highway to be the most dangerous place to be. Once you're OFF the highway, however ... fair game.
Fights last longer, so ships that are clearly outmatched have more time to call for aid from nearby vessels. S.O.S. and all that. Of course, if no help is nearby ... so sad. Pirates live to pick off stragglers. But if the target is a part of a squadron, especially one that's looking for pirates ... the Navy (organized anti-pirate group) is supposed to hunt pirates; the pirates don't hunt the Navy. (Although we do have our moments.)
Devices that help maintain warp core integrity have side effects. For some ship types, the side effects are not a problem. For others, it's a huge problem. I buy that. If there weren't side effects, they'd come as standard equipment on EVERY ship.
Ships (mission runners, etc) in deadspace pockets can now be found via scan probe. Doesn't it make sense that someone in a deadspace pocket can be sniffed out? Of course it does. You're in space. I know where you are. I should be able to go there. Inconvenient? Well, shucks.
Does it make the life of a pirate harder than it used to? Yeah, probably. But the pilots whose ships that pirates destroy generally fall into three types:
1) Those who are taking a calculated risk coming into dangerous space. They know they're toast if they're caught, but the potential reward is worth it.
2) Those who come looking for a fight, but aren't quite as tough as they need to be. They also know the risks.
3) People who don't know enough to avoid getting attacked or who drop their guard at the wrong moment. These people will always exist. A lot of the time, their lapse in judgement will not result in the loss of their ship. But if people like me are around ... hazard of the trade. _
TomB has a nerf put aside for me ... for me ... for meeeeeeeeee!!!! |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2006.12.01 06:33:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Deaths Wisper ...most of the time you risk all your nice stuff and come out with trash...
Pirates risk stuff? Seriously? Pirates are masters of stacking the deck in their favor. Can't blame them for that as it only makes sense but pirates are some of the best at avoiding unwanted combat I have seen. Nailing a pirate down is very hard even for those dedicated to doing just that. Unfortunately MOST people who run into pirates are not prepared for it.
I get sick of the "adapt or die carebear". Sure anyone can in theory "be prepared" but get real. Think of what you expect EVERY person who enters low sec to have "prepared" in order to not gripe when they get jumped.
From what I read from posts by self proclaimed pirates for low sec I must have decent combat/piloting/tanking skills, a combat ship fitted for PvE combat and several mates along for the ride. Ideally I am apparently also supposed to also have scouts out, check every jump I make on the map for trouble, scan probe every gate before I jump and have an eagle eye on local and be aligned for warp. Who the f--- does that? Seriously? And I mean EVERY time in EVE and EVERYWHERE you go?
CAN all the above be done? Sure. Is it reasonable to expect everyone to do this 23/7? No.
Who the hell forms gangs to escort their butts around while they do missions EVERY time they go missioning? Hell, missions are mostly solo oriented tasks (I have done numerous L2 missions that take me low sec...I should have five+ guys with me for that???).
What corp are pirates in that they think there is a supply of scouts available to cover all possible routes you will drive? Maybe in PvP centric corps this is the order of the day but I'd bet 90% of EVE CANNOT do this. I used to be in a HUGE corp some time back and even then such things were very difficult to arrange.
Why should pirates berate a builder moving about who doesn't have leet combat skills just trying to move in EVE?
God forbid a player with less than 10 mil SP wanders low sec.
Add to all that that pirates get the initiative. They get to pick their fights, pick ideal setups. The "good" guys don't jump people so pirates can lay back and cherry pick their targets. Initiative lends a huge advantage. Along with initiative the pirates are loaded specifically to gank and run (if necessary).
I have been part of anti-pirate gangs who decided to take the fight back to the pirates...like banging your head against a wall. For all their bravado they are among the most cowardly bunch in EVE running at the first hint of anything approaching a fair fight (NOTE: I know of some pirates/pirate corps who truly merit the title, take pride in their work, have honor and relish a good fight when presented to them but sadly they are a minority among their peers).
Think I am wrong in all this? 0.0 space is arguably MUCH safer than 0.1-0.4 space. With suicide gankers it may be safer than hi sec if you are deep in your own alliance's territory.
Seems to me the hardest thing about pirating is hitting F1-F8 and dealing with boredom waiting for the next hapless person to stumble past them.
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Phelan Lore
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2006.12.01 07:06:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
God forbid a player with less than 10 mil SP wanders low sec.
OMG lowsec!!!!
Sniggwaffe is recruiting |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2006.12.01 07:19:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 01/12/2006 07:20:29
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
From what I read from posts by self proclaimed pirates for low sec I must have decent combat/piloting/tanking skills, a combat ship fitted for PvE combat and several mates along for the ride. Ideally I am apparently also supposed to also have scouts out, check every jump I make on the map for trouble, scan probe every gate before I jump and have an eagle eye on local and be aligned for warp. Who the f--- does that? Seriously? And I mean EVERY time in EVE and EVERYWHERE you go?
CAN all the above be done? Sure. Is it reasonable to expect everyone to do this 23/7? No.
Uhh, yes? You actually don't have to do all of those things to get by though--try 4 or 5 out of the 9 maybe? Of course, if you want to get close to 99% safety in LowSec, you'll have to do everything. Personally, I'm willing to settle for less than that.
If you don't enjoy dealing with any of that, EVE gives you a couple of choices: Take Your Chances...or...Stay in HighSec. It's pretty simple really.
As far as the OP goes, I sort of agree that piracy should be more difficult in some ways. The main thing I think needs to change is for Pirate Hunting to get some game design love as a side-activity and as a profession. Ideally that would discourage a lot of the dumb or less determined pirates; but maybe just as importantly, many of the people who currently turn to piracy for freewheeling PvP would instead become bounty hunters and anti-pirates.
Done right, I think it could make for a more populated, more diverse, and more fun LowSec environment for a lot more players than it is now, regardless of which side of the law they choose to fly on.
Of course, figuring out how to find that balance is way beyond me.
* * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Calindra Kotay
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Posted - 2006.12.01 07:23:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Calindra Kotay on 01/12/2006 07:23:58 CONCORDE should be introduced to low-sec. Also Gate Sentries should instapop pirates. Asteroid belts should be full of Arkonor & Mercoxite.
Station should be covered in honey also, just to balance things out.
And whats the fun of 100% security It's the thrill of the kill fool.
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Jin Entres
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.01 07:32:00 -
[9]
Pirating should be realistic. Victims should be raped and mutilated - and if they're still alive, made slave away the rest of their lives cleaning bottom decks and entertaining the rats. Yarr. ---
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Ben Booley
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.01 07:42:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
God forbid a player with less than 10 mil SP wanders low sec.
I have been in lowsec or 0.0 almost constantly eve since i had about 750k SP. Even now I only have 5m SP, and I'm doing just fine in 0.0. Sure, I can't kill a gank-squad, but I do know how to avoid things. I barely watch local, almost never align, rarely if ever scout before me, rarely check the map for possible camps unless I know its a common chokepoint, and don't scan gates before I get there. And even doing this, I've lost at most 2 ships to a gank or camp that I wasn't looking to fight with. Really, It's not that hard to survive, even with low SP, in either lowsec or 0.0.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2006.12.01 07:52:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ben Booley I have been in lowsec or 0.0 almost constantly eve since i had about 750k SP. Even now I only have 5m SP, and I'm doing just fine in 0.0. Sure, I can't kill a gank-squad, but I do know how to avoid things. I barely watch local, almost never align, rarely if ever scout before me, rarely check the map for possible camps unless I know its a common chokepoint, and don't scan gates before I get there. And even doing this, I've lost at most 2 ships to a gank or camp that I wasn't looking to fight with. Really, It's not that hard to survive, even with low SP, in either lowsec or 0.0.
Thanks for making my point. 0.0 is perversely relatively safe and the most profitable. Go mining 0.1 - 0.4 and let me know what you think (not kidding...bet you find a lot more trouble there).
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sallazzar
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Posted - 2006.12.01 08:03:00 -
[12]
just like to add my 2 cents
i feel that pirates are fine they add spice to the game. my main gripe is with the risk vs reward for pirates.
basically even if you have 5 ppl activly trying to hunt a sniper or gate camp you stand almost no chance of catching them or stoping them. i wouldn't mind getting sniped and ganked if it was possible for my corp to fight back, at best you can drive a camp off atm.
i think ccp should stop making things safer for the victems and make them more dangourus for the pirates.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2006.12.01 08:08:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Uhh, yes? You actually don't have to do all of those things to get by though--try 4 or 5 out of the 9 maybe? Of course, if you want to get close to 99% safety in LowSec, you'll have to do everything. Personally, I'm willing to settle for less than that.
If you don't enjoy dealing with any of that, EVE gives you a couple of choices: Take Your Chances...or...Stay in HighSec. It's pretty simple really.
Well...not all I listed are created equal. If you are set for PvP with a gang and run together you watch the map to find hot spots and not avoid them (just an example).
Look...I am a big fan of risk versus reward. Despite some rough treatment at the hands of pirates on a few occasions I generally manage quite well and genuinely (really) like their presence in EVE. I think they are a necessary, indeed crucial, aspect of the EVE universe and a big part of what makes EVE stand above all the rest.
But the flip side is I would like to be able to have a chance without fitting a combat ship for PvP every time I go low sec. Not saying I should be able to float a Badger while AFK safely but last time I got ganked was today in a MISSION fitted Harbinger. I had ZERO chance...I do mean zero.
Maybe if there was some way to narrow the gap between a mission/ratting setup versus a PvP setup...I dunno.
Bottom line I believe in balance.
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.01 08:09:00 -
[14]
Originally by: sallazzar just like to add my 2 cents
i feel that pirates are fine they add spice to the game. my main gripe is with the risk vs reward for pirates.
basically even if you have 5 ppl activly trying to hunt a sniper or gate camp you stand almost no chance of catching them or stoping them. i wouldn't mind getting sniped and ganked if it was possible for my corp to fight back, at best you can drive a camp off atm.
i think ccp should stop making things safer for the victems and make them more dangourus for the pirates.
The reason you can't catch them is the same reason carebears can't be caught by pirates. The only difference is that pirates know what they're doing, and everyone else appearantly doesn't. It's not like pirates get special rules to play by. Anything that limits you from nabbing a pirate also limits a pirate from killing your own ship.
FFS carebears are stupid.
Because I said so...
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sallazzar
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Posted - 2006.12.01 08:13:00 -
[15]
Edited by: sallazzar on 01/12/2006 08:13:13 um ok calm down :)
i agree with you
it should be easyer to catch pirates and others,
atm only the inexperianced get caught
problem is that ccp keep making it harder for pirates to catch ppl which conversly means its harder to catch the pirates so all in all we end up at a stalemate where one mistake by a non pirate gets them killed
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Redpants
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2006.12.01 08:25:00 -
[16]
Murder One can preach the word.
I won't repeat what he said because he summed it up greatly. But though my character is newer, I've been here for awhile. I was only pirated twice at a low sec gate before I learned my lessons and I have not been the victim of piracy since, at gates nor in belts.
Yes I do scan, I do check local, I do check my map, I check local again, I use my chat channels for intel and I check local once more. That saves my ass. When I am out looking for trouble, I use those same tools but for a different means. So pirates or carebear, you all have the same tools at your disposal. If you choose not to use them because you don't feel like you should have to, then it's you who's looking smooth in a pod.
I have zero sympathy for a guy who's lone mining in his Imicus in a 0.4. He deserves everything he gets. Some people have to get burned by fire to learn it's hot. ________________________________________________________________________________ "My once immaculate white pants are now stained from the weak and innocent. I don't wear red." |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2006.12.01 08:25:00 -
[17]
Originally by: murder one The only difference is that pirates know what they're doing, and everyone else appearantly doesn't. It's not like pirates get special rules to play by. Anything that limits you from nabbing a pirate also limits a pirate from killing your own ship.
FFS carebears are stupid.
Bull
A PvP setup > PvE setup
If you are a hauler in low sec even worse.
You try running L4 missions in low sec and get back to me. Try hauling if you really want to feel the pain.
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Nicholai Pestot
Gallente Havoc Inc
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Posted - 2006.12.01 08:27:00 -
[18]
Originally by: sallazzar just like to add my 2 cents
i feel that pirates are fine they add spice to the game. my main gripe is with the risk vs reward for pirates.
basically even if you have 5 ppl activly trying to hunt a sniper or gate camp you stand almost no chance of catching them or stoping them. i wouldn't mind getting sniped and ganked if it was possible for my corp to fight back, at best you can drive a camp off atm.
i think ccp should stop making things safer for the victems and make them more dangourus for the pirates.
Now imagen your prey isn't an outlaw.
Now imagen your prey doesn't actually have to engage anyone at the gate/belt as part of their chosen career and will insta dock the second anyone comes in local.
Congratulations, you have just reached pirate difficulty level. ________________ What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2006.12.01 08:40:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Nicholai Pestot Now imagen your prey isn't an outlaw.
Now imagen your prey doesn't actually have to engage anyone at the gate/belt as part of their chosen career and will insta dock the second anyone comes in local.
Congratulations, you have just reached pirate difficulty level.
So your difficulty is not getting to gank someone while everyone else's problem is not to die?
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Nicholai Pestot
Gallente Havoc Inc
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Posted - 2006.12.01 08:47:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Nicholai Pestot on 01/12/2006 08:53:13
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Nicholai Pestot Now imagen your prey isn't an outlaw.
Now imagen your prey doesn't actually have to engage anyone at the gate/belt as part of their chosen career and will insta dock the second anyone comes in local.
Congratulations, you have just reached pirate difficulty level.
So your difficulty is not getting to gank someone while everyone else's problem is not to die?
I'm laughing at the fact that hunting a group of outlaw pirates is supposed to be difficult, when from a purely mechanical pov it is infinitely easer then what a pirate has to do every day.
Just because you cant figure out how easy it is to live in lowsec/0.0 without loosing more than 1 or 2 ships a week, doesn't mean its hard.
Hell, if I didn't actively seek out PvP i would probably be able to avoid all ship losses. ________________ What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete |
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Thor Xian
Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.01 08:50:00 -
[21]
Pirating is only as easy as the victims make it.
~Thor Xian, Material Defender
"Victory is the weakness of the enemy."
Corp/Alliance Services |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2006.12.01 09:02:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Nicholai Pestot I'm laughing at the fact that hunting a group of outlaw pirates is supposed to be difficult, when from a purely mechanical pov it is infinitely easer then what a pirate has to do every day.
The point you are missing is MOST people are not hunting pirates. They are doing a mission or hauling or going somewhere to pickup a mod or going from A-->B. The idea that al of this needs to be done in a PvP fitted ship (regardless if it is remotely applicable to the task) with several mates along for the ride is absurd.
Drive an industrial or even transport around low sec (where you have no friends) and tell me how easy it is.
Better yet go mission in 0.1-0.4.
Harder still go mine in 0.1-0.4 where the locals are not friendly.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2006.12.01 09:06:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Drive an industrial or even transport around low sec (where you have no friends) and tell me how easy it is.
Better yet go mission in 0.1-0.4.
Harder still go mine in 0.1-0.4 where the locals are not friendly.
I should note about those examples that I am not -- repeat NOT -- asking for easy mode. As much as it pains me I do think there should be serious risk in EVE but as it stands doing the things I listed above are a death sentence and that sucks.
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.01 09:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: murder one The only difference is that pirates know what they're doing, and everyone else appearantly doesn't. It's not like pirates get special rules to play by. Anything that limits you from nabbing a pirate also limits a pirate from killing your own ship.
FFS carebears are stupid.
Bull
A PvP setup > PvE setup
If you are a hauler in low sec even worse.
You try running L4 missions in low sec and get back to me. Try hauling if you really want to feel the pain.
Not bull. It is virtually impossible for a hauler to be caught now since warp to 0km is here, you can still run stabs, and there are still other even better ways to avoid being caught, which I of course won't tell you.
Additionally, running missions in low sec shouldn't be any more dangerous than ratting in 0.0. In fact I think it's infinitely more safe. Ratting in 0.0 assumes you're in a belt. This means that you're readily accessible without probes, and MWDs work, where in deadspace they don't.
Your arguements just don't hold any water. Mission runners simply want the game to be easy. Now it's a little harder. Boohoo. You've been enjoying a risk free payday for three years. Pirates have to suck up the warp to 0km change and 'adapt' (meaning give up our playstyles and find something else to do). Maybe you'll have to 'adapt' too.
Because I said so...
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Soporo
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Posted - 2006.12.01 09:20:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Soporo on 01/12/2006 09:22:51
Quote: null
Dont worry about it, when CCP allows Dictors in Low Sec there will be no targets for them at all except a few diehards.
Simply wont be worth the risk hauling/missioning/exploring. Hell, it isnt worth it now.
MOST Pirates are assclampers as far as I'm concerned, but they need to be in the game, it would lose its flavor if they werent. I still find it hard to believe that what they do is excessively difficult or demanding though. If you can mod a cruiser halfway decently and have some patience and maybe a buddy or two...
Quote: It is virtually impossible for a hauler to be caught now since warp to 0km is here
Oh please, peddle that somewhere else. Can we say the OTHER side of the gate? You get as much benefit as anyone else. |
Tal Shai
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Posted - 2006.12.01 09:37:00 -
[26]
Why dont we make it simple.
1.0 to 0.5 SAFE space, only upto lv3 agents missions locked, anyone not in gangs not allowed into it make the bounties or the loot alittle better than the crap that it is at the moment - total carebear enviroment.
Below 0.5 is DMZ all 0.0
Best agents best loot, salvage, bounties. anyone that turns up uninvited you can open fire, non of the defensive play that is now 0.4 to 0.1 where you have to be hit beforehand
I dont have the time to dedicate to play all out PVP, but if something along these lines were implemented would this not suit everyone.
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infraX
Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.12.01 10:36:00 -
[27]
Hmm let's see.
Pirates cannot show their faces in civilized areas as they will have their ship destroyed by a local navy (exactly as you said) and/or podded in high sec by another player.
'Any 'ol pilot' as you put it, can do anything they want in EVE. It doesn't mean they will be GOOD at it.
The risk in piracy is that anyone can bring a gang of friends and kill you any time anywhere. You cannot get your friends to help as they will take sentry gun fire and probably be killed very easily also. You also have to fly big ships for this reason as anything less than a battleship (or command ship) won't last very long under the sentry guns and can EASILY be tagged by an interceptor so they can't warp out and then shredded with the help of sentry guns. Pirates can be killed by smaller ship classes easily in this manner. I've seen it happen before to the less experienced pirates.
I wouldn't say pirates are a significant percentage of the ships. Check your map and see how many people are either spending their time in high sec doing missions or in 0.0 and fighting where it is not considered piracy. low sec is a desert for the most part and there is nothing interesting there.
The only 'problem' with piracy is there are stupid people who just jump into lowsec without a care in the world and get jumped by some pirates who either ransom them or steal all their stuff. This combined with lack of people with the balls to fight pirates is the only problem I can see.
I think you are wearing rose coloured glasses and need to get a clue about the bs your babbling.
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David H'Levi
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2006.12.01 10:52:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jollyreaper Thinking back to historical pirates, they faced a lot of challenges. They could not show their faces in civilized areas, they were under constant threat of attack by navies, and it was hard work prospecting for targets.
Like being unable to enter 0.5 space and above, kill-on-sight to everyone in EVE, and having to travel 20+ jumps a day just to find a few targets?
Originally by: Jollyreaper Piracy should be a challenging profession in EVE rather than something any ol' pilot can play at. Because the reward for piracy can be so high, the risk has to be correspondingly bad. There are some mechanisms for this sort of thing in place: bounties, standings, etc, but the pirates are still having it a bit easy.
Like being unable to enter 0.5 space and above, kill-on-sight to everyone in EVE, and having to travel 20+ jumps a day just to find a few targets?
Originally by: Jollyreaper Historically speaking, pirates never accounted for a significant percentage of the ships sailing the seas. Realistically, they couldn't. If pirates made trade too risky, merchants would place their money in other ventures. They were not interested in providing pirate welfare.
Have you ever pirated anywhere consistently? We have to move around so much because targets dry up so fast.
Besides, the analogy to sailing is pretty bunk -- the way EVE is structured makes us much more analogous to highway men or raiders. We either ambush people on the travel lanes or raid their villages.
Originally by: Jollyreaper That is the same social dynamic pirates will have to be mindful of within EVE. If the threat is low enough, PVE players will make the run to scary space to try their luck. Alternatively, if the reward is made high enough, they'll be willing to face more of a piate threat.
We are. We've moved from region to region several times since I joined a few months ago. Our logistics core is pretty amazing, because we have to support a strongly nomadic lifestyle.
Originally by: Jollyreaper I would agree with the critique made that there is too big of a gap between PVE and PVP setups. The pirate knows the kind of fight he wants and is equipped for it. A mission-runner is setup differently and can only hope that he doesn't get jumped. My chosen combat strategy at the moment is running in blind terror since I don't yet have the skills to make fighting look like anything approaching a sane option. I'd be a lot more interested in fighting if I thought it would be anything other than a vigorous buggery session. Scramblers mean that you're going to be committed to the fight. The stab nerfing means that if you're equipped to avoid the fight, you're still incapable of running combat missions. That would work for couriers and traders but is not so good for combat missions.
Don't fit a PVE setup on a ship that might be involved in PvP then, or make sure you have a lot of friends sitting around ready to help you. I haven't flown solo without a disruptor/scrambler on a NPCing ship in as long as I can remember.
If your ship can't handle that, then find another ship or easier NPCs.
Originally by: Jollyreaper People argue back and forth as to whether EVE has the right balance when it comes to a kill penalty. WoW makes dying relatively painless whereas EVE makes you feel the loss like a limb just got cut off. It certainly adds to the drama of the fight but it also makes people a lot more reticent about committing to fights when the odds are in question.
It's a gigantic tough balancing issue. I hope CCP eventually finds a happy medium.
I'd say the medium has been found already. Don't fly or plug-in what you can't afford to lose, don't enter low-sec if you don't want to PvP. I've happily lived most of my life both as a pirate and anti-pirate in lowsec and haven't taken the slightest notice to dying in months, because I follow those two rules.
We Recruit! |
ghosttr
Amarr Resource Control Agency
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Posted - 2006.12.01 10:57:00 -
[29]
[QUOTE]3) People who don't know enough to avoid getting attacked or who drop their guard at the wrong moment. These people will always exist. A lot of the time, their lapse in judgement will not result in the loss of their ship. But if people like me are around ... hazard of the trade.[/QUOTE]
Like the idiots who always show up at my pos when i have to do something that requires offlining the control tower I don't have a problem with authority... ...as long as it doesn't get in my way. |
LexaKosh
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Posted - 2006.12.01 11:23:00 -
[30]
The point you are missing is MOST people are not hunting pirates. They are doing a mission or hauling or going somewhere to pickup a mod or going from A-->B. The idea that al of this needs to be done in a PvP fitted ship (regardless if it is remotely applicable to the task) with several mates along for the ride is absurd.
Maybe that could be helped. Imagine a system where the pirate gets an automatic bounty of, say, 10% of the avg. market value of the ships/mods he/she destroyed. Unfortunately i can see no way to make this system foolproof, i.e. avoid abuse in the form that the pirate's corp mate or 2nd account kills him to collect the bounty. Big bounties would make bounty hunting a viable profession.
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