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MRxX7XxMONKEY
The Vigor Collective
Quantum Collective
1
   |
Posted - 2015.07.16 05:19:58 -
[1] - Quote
In a two hour event that saw about two hundred people come to the system, I witnessed first hand the issues that both defenders and attackers faced when using this new mechanic.
Overall I think it is a great addition to the game, there was definitively an influx of content in our home. Unfortunately this also happened when less than a quarter of our coalition was actually online.
Immediately I noticed the problem that in-game the mechanics weren't very clear as to what to do in order to play this mini-game. It was also frustrating to note that some of our defenders actually couldn't find the nodes that need to be hacked in space - they were practically invisible and they did not appear by default on the overview. I would recommend turning them on by default for people, or making them more visible in outer space.
However, the main issue that I ended up seeing were TrollECM. Under current mechanics it seems that it is possible for a single t1 ship fit with ecm to halt the defense by three pilots. This is especially annoying because an ECM boat only needs to get one jam cycle on on the entosis-ing ship in order to mess with the capture. It would be fine and dandy if you could then relock the node and continue capturing it, but unfortunately, you have to wait for the entire cycle to end to be able to do anything again, and at that point, you have to do two cycles on the node again! I would recommend remedying one of three ways -
a) allowing links to continue from where they left off if they relock the node as a result of the ECM
b) make the link make the ship immune to EWAR of the ECM variety (justify it by saying that "by using this link your mind and your ship reach a certain point of transcendence and are now immune to things that can break your concentration")
c) make the link boost the ships sensor strength by A LOT when it is active (since they do not need to be scanned down - they have to be at an object that is present on the overview)
Other than this I would say it was a very fun experience, was nice to see people from all over EvE gather in the system in which I tried to live, heh. |
Falken Falcon
32121
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 05:49:54 -
[2] - Quote
The idea is to have full control of the grid to use the entosis link. Troll ecm? Fit pile of eccm's and/or kill the griffin. If you can't kill a single griffin for what ever reason, then it stands that you don't have the control of the grid.
Yet anothing grr ECM thread when there are tools avaiable for everyone counter it. Everyone knows that ecm will be the meta in defencive sov warfare, so fly an armor battleship fitted with eccm's.
Edit: Or better yet, a marauder.
Aye, Sea Turtles
|
DaReaper
Net 7
2368
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 06:21:07 -
[3] - Quote
also you can fan out and grab other nodes, so if you had 1 dude with an ecm you can send another guy to another node to entosis it while you keep the lone ecm guy distracted.
but you had 3 v 1.. so shoot the ******* ecm boat
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
|
Space Frog
Booze Blues n' Tattoos
1
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 06:28:48 -
[4] - Quote
Well, I too tried to take the station in R3, but then I got hammered with beer and schnapps and wound up in Curse and died. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
6150
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 11:52:21 -
[5] - Quote
I'm sorry, but if one ECM ship defeated 3 of your pilots, you were seriously doing it wrong. There are plenty of ways to counter a single ECM ship, and with 3 pilots it should have been relatively easy.
I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
|
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
434
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 12:31:56 -
[6] - Quote
EWAR ships were posited as a stage of the meta very early on in the response to the dev blogs - either bring some of your own to deal with the hostile links or drop a marauder into bastion for your own unEWARable links.
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3521
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 12:43:41 -
[7] - Quote
I think the issue is: One ecm ship comes in, quickly locks and jams. Moments later, it explodes due to the actions of the defenders. But the damage is done: the link has to end its last cycle, then start a new cycle.
The result is it becomes a twitch game race: Can you lock and kill the ecm ship before it gets one jam off?
In the mass test I commented to CCP about the consequences to the link user of losing lock (I flew out of my range, and lost lock). They agreed the consequences were large, making me think CCP intends for things to be working as they are.
There are so many counters. Use a T2 link and be far away, moving fast. Have other ships standing by to activate their links (at least you only get set back one cycle). Insta-lock gank ships, and so on.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11830
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 12:46:46 -
[8] - Quote
There are counter ECM mods and implants. Entosis users should use those. not 100% but better than being naked. |
Wacktopia
Noir.
No Not Believing
798
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 12:56:20 -
[9] - Quote
The point about the overview and making nodes a bit more casual-friendly is a good point.
I see the "TrollECM" case as the system working as intended.
Your example of 1v3 being a "possibility to halt the defence" implies that bigger numbers should always win, whether you indented this or not, and I do not personally agree with this. As others have said, you could have the ship with the Entosis Link ECCM-fit or you could damp / jam / kill the one ship in your example.
Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together - -áFleet-Up.com
|
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
843
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 13:00:17 -
[10] - Quote
Deploy your own ECM ship - I'd use a Rook, personally, as they don't show up on Dscan.
Deploy a ship with the mids packed with remote ECCM. Put all remote ECCM on your defending Entosis linked ship. That's how we used to run slowcat fleets back in the day - all the carriers would put remote eccm on the drone bunny so he wouldn't get jammed out. Same idea, but no drones.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
|
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
1225
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 13:01:39 -
[11] - Quote
MRxX7XxMONKEY wrote:In a two hour event that saw about two hundred people come to the system, I witnessed first hand the issues that both defenders and attackers faced when using this new mechanic.
Overall I think it is a great addition to the game, there was definitively an influx of content in our home. Unfortunately this also happened when less than a quarter of our coalition was actually online.
Immediately I noticed the problem that in-game the mechanics weren't very clear as to what to do in order to play this mini-game. It was also frustrating to note that some of our defenders actually couldn't find the nodes that need to be hacked in space - they were practically invisible and they did not appear by default on the overview. I would recommend turning them on by default for people, or making them more visible in outer space.
However, the main issue that I ended up seeing were TrollECM. Under current mechanics it seems that it is possible for a single t1 ship fit with ecm to halt the defense by three pilots. This is especially annoying because an ECM boat only needs to get one jam cycle on on the entosis-ing ship in order to mess with the capture. It would be fine and dandy if you could then relock the node and continue capturing it, but unfortunately, you have to wait for the entire cycle to end to be able to do anything again, and at that point, you have to do two cycles on the node again! I would recommend remedying one of three ways -
a) allowing links to continue from where they left off if they relock the node as a result of the ECM
b) make the link make the ship immune to EWAR of the ECM variety (justify it by saying that "by using this link your mind and your ship reach a certain point of transcendence and are now immune to things that can break your concentration")
c) make the link boost the ships sensor strength by A LOT when it is active (since they do not need to be scanned down - they have to be at an object that is present on the overview)
Other than this I would say it was a very fun experience, was nice to see people from all over EvE gather in the system in which I tried to live, heh.
trollECM :D god now i know what to invest in on the market, this is really funny :D the big comeback of the lockbraker bombs
YouTube
|
Wacktopia
Noir.
No Not Believing
798
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 13:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:Deploy your own ECM ship - I'd use a Rook, personally, as they don't show up on Dscan.
Yeah I thought that or maybe a lach with sebo and max range damps
Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together - -áFleet-Up.com
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2038
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 14:08:26 -
[13] - Quote
You could go full tryhard mode and build a bubble of stop bubble around your objective to prevent the ECM ship being in range.
 |
Vivien Meally
Des-Meisters-Lakaien
Phoenix Company Alliance
72
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 15:04:57 -
[14] - Quote
TrollCeptor with Entosis Link is OK. But a TrollECM defender is not? |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
951
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 15:14:35 -
[15] - Quote
Use a super.
Not today spaghetti.
|
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
22408
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 15:20:10 -
[16] - Quote
Came expecting a 'Grrrrrrr Fozziesov!' thread, found only another 'Grrrrrr ECM!!!!!!!' thread.
Please expect to find a Platypus documentary here.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
|
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
1656
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 15:34:54 -
[17] - Quote
Why do people keep calling legitimate tactics "trolling"?
This is not c17th century warfare, we don't all line up nice and neat and see who has the bigger guns then have a slow ordered march to the middle for a good scrap. |
IcyMind Arierep
Chaotic Tranquility
Lethal Intent.
16
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 15:40:49 -
[18] - Quote
I don't have much experience with this, but sounds interesting. Sounds like now this required more coordination which usually give more accountability to the memebrs of the alliance, rather than just trusting one entity.
|
d0cTeR9
Astro Technologies
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
201
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 16:15:53 -
[19] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Why do people keep calling legitimate tactics "trolling"?
This is not c17th century warfare, we don't all line up nice and neat and see who has the bigger guns then have a slow ordered march to the middle for a good scrap.
Running in and out in a cheap, throwaway ship, that can seriously annoy (but that's about it) larger gangs is trolling.
Been around since the beginning.
|
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
1657
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 16:27:37 -
[20] - Quote
Apparently it's doing MARKEDLY more than "annoy" though, eh?
Apparently it's hilariously effective.
Just because it's "cheap", doesn't make it less legitimate.
I suppose cynos in a throwaway hull are "trolling" too? |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
852
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 18:12:20 -
[21] - Quote
d0cTeR9 wrote:afkalt wrote:Why do people keep calling legitimate tactics "trolling"?
This is not c17th century warfare, we don't all line up nice and neat and see who has the bigger guns then have a slow ordered march to the middle for a good scrap. Running in and out in a cheap, throwaway ship, that can seriously annoy (but that's about it) larger gangs is trolling.
Actually I can see it being an incredibly effective scenario in psychological warfare.
Do it until your opponent gets tired of responding, then actually invade.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
|
Galdon Patrouette
Urkrathos Corp
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 20:22:18 -
[22] - Quote
'Entosis' links
Hopefully ccp will revise the whole attack process, and correct 'link attack' mechanics.
pretty time consuming for defenders to be away from base ONCE for 40 mins and then have to bring up a fleet scattered all over the region to find and pump up the base links for each base segment x2 = 10 repairs.
a little one-sided.
Can do without it, although ccp seems to like creating chaos wherever they can. How about giving us all full skills in all areas so we can actually make use of all this new 'stuff'?
I am sure raiders who have a base in a wormhole that will not let the attackers back in after 12-18 hours will fare much better.
So is ccp telling us we have to all go wormhole corps to survive their latest game abortion - not withstanding they had the whole game down and messed up for most of a day.
|
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
521
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 20:42:12 -
[23] - Quote
d0cTeR9 wrote:afkalt wrote:Why do people keep calling legitimate tactics "trolling"?
This is not c17th century warfare, we don't all line up nice and neat and see who has the bigger guns then have a slow ordered march to the middle for a good scrap. Running in and out in a cheap, throwaway ship, that can seriously annoy (but that's about it) larger gangs is trolling.
To me it sounds like some one was prepared for the new mechanics and some one else wasn't.
A nuetral gang of falcons that appear and just randomly jam links on all sides would constitute an ecmtroll - and sounds like great fun.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6831
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 21:01:18 -
[24] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
I wish to see a day when, during the time a ship is jammed, it can still fire its turrets in "dummy mode" meaning they face forward and you have to aim your whole ship at a target.
Better than nothing (which ECM is the only ewar that renders you useless)
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11160
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 21:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
I lost therefor they must have cheated, those LollyECMtr0llsGaggers 
Almost as OP as those AFK Cloakers, eh?
How dare CCP expect us to counter this ****, effecting our max dps builds.
Oh the humanity!
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
|
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
Chao3 Alliance
269
|
Posted - 2015.07.17 00:12:10 -
[26] - Quote
d0cTeR9 wrote:
Running in and out in a cheap, throwaway ship, that can seriously annoy (but that's about it) larger gangs is trolling.
oh yes?
then, you surely are among those that think that this Han Solo guy seriously trolled Darth Vader in the canyons of the Death Star...
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope...
|
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
886
|
Posted - 2015.07.17 00:56:40 -
[27] - Quote
Your problem was a lack of preparation. Expect your Entosis ships to be jammed, damped, webbed, painted, disrupted, scrammed, bumped and possibly sexually harassed.
There are all our dominion
Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
|
45thtiger 0109
AL3XAND3R.
153
|
Posted - 2015.07.17 02:11:43 -
[28] - Quote
MRxX7XxMONKEY wrote:In a two hour event that saw about two hundred people come to the system, I witnessed first hand the issues that both defenders and attackers faced when using this new mechanic.
Overall I think it is a great addition to the game, there was definitively an influx of content in our home. Unfortunately this also happened when less than a quarter of our coalition was actually online.
Immediately I noticed the problem that in-game the mechanics weren't very clear as to what to do in order to play this mini-game. It was also frustrating to note that some of our defenders actually couldn't find the nodes that need to be hacked in space - they were practically invisible and they did not appear by default on the overview. I would recommend turning them on by default for people, or making them more visible in outer space.
However, the main issue that I ended up seeing were TrollECM. Under current mechanics it seems that it is possible for a single t1 ship fit with ecm to halt the defense by three pilots. This is especially annoying because an ECM boat only needs to get one jam cycle on on the entosis-ing ship in order to mess with the capture. It would be fine and dandy if you could then relock the node and continue capturing it, but unfortunately, you have to wait for the entire cycle to end to be able to do anything again, and at that point, you have to do two cycles on the node again! I would recommend remedying one of three ways -
a) allowing links to continue from where they left off if they relock the node as a result of the ECM
b) make the link make the ship immune to EWAR of the ECM variety (justify it by saying that "by using this link your mind and your ship reach a certain point of transcendence and are now immune to things that can break your concentration")
c) make the link boost the ships sensor strength by A LOT when it is active (since they do not need to be scanned down - they have to be at an object that is present on the overview)
Other than this I would say it was a very fun experience, was nice to see people from all over EvE gather in the system in which I tried to live, heh.
IBTL
**You Have to take the good with the bad
and the bad with the good.
Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
|
45thtiger 0109
AL3XAND3R.
153
|
Posted - 2015.07.17 02:13:06 -
[29] - Quote
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:Your problem was a lack of preparation. Expect your Entosis ships to be jammed, damped, webbed, painted, disrupted, scrammed, bumped and possibly sexually harassed.
Well Said I Lolled 
**You Have to take the good with the bad
and the bad with the good.
Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
|
Dirk Lance
Wrecking Shots
Black Legion.
4
|
Posted - 2015.07.18 11:48:39 -
[30] - Quote
Sounds like a bit of a butthurt post. Anyway, if all it takes is one ECM Jam to stop an entosis link, that's a pretty good thing. Sov isn't supposed to be something a band of a few scrubs can obtain or defend easily.
The idea is to have control of the grid, and the main reason for that is simple - you have to win the fight first. Win the fight and start the process. You can't just go into a system and try to contest it with a trollceptor either. If you're worried about a t1 frigate stopping an entosis link with ECM, then fit ECCM.
Also the command nodes did show up on the default overview, it's user error.
Fozzie sov is here folks, and it doesn't appear to suck that bad. Adapt or die. Also it's probs not the best idea to defend your sov with a fail fleet. Just sayin'. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6723
|
Posted - 2015.07.18 19:37:06 -
[31] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Oh btw if you don't understand it, CCP put up a few vids on it yesterday. You can dig through this to find them (yes not a trick link).
"Sovereignty in the EVE Universe is a game played with mighty fleets, flexible tactics, shrewd diplomacy, "
Interceptor gangs, sovlaser Interceptors, blobbers with bluelists.
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Hal Morsh
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
332
|
Posted - 2015.07.18 20:08:28 -
[32] - Quote
Null is supposed to be endgame. Valuable things in ownable space, but do you have the balls to own it?
CCP is stiring things up, and making it one of the hardest and most involved pvp experiances you can get.
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6725
|
Posted - 2015.07.19 03:07:38 -
[33] - Quote
Hal Morsh wrote:Null is supposed to be endgame. Valuable things in ownable space, but do you have the balls to own it?
CCP is stiring things up, and making it one of the hardest and most involved pvp experiances you can get.
It's not really.
This might just be your posting alt, and in fact you're secretly a member of the elite nullsec group N3 or something, but... it's not ~all~ that great.
Also, very involved entosis by yourself and run away when people arrive.... and of course mining.
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Hal Morsh
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
332
|
Posted - 2015.07.19 14:51:04 -
[34] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Hal Morsh wrote:Null is supposed to be endgame. Valuable things in ownable space, but do you have the balls to own it?
CCP is stiring things up, and making it one of the hardest and most involved pvp experiances you can get. It's not really. This might just be your posting alt, and in fact you're secretly a member of the elite nullsec group N3 or something, but... it's not ~all~ that great. Also, very involved entosis by yourself and run away when people arrive.... and of course mining.
I tried null. I died a bunch, and then I left. Now I mine.
Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
|
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5419
|
Posted - 2015.07.19 14:57:42 -
[35] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:blobbers with bluelists.
Said the Goon.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
|
davet517
Body Count Inc.
Pandemic Legion
106
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 04:40:52 -
[36] - Quote
ECM as a counter is fair game, as has already been mentioned, and there are counters to it.
As for all those who feel like this is too hard, you'll probably get better at it with time and practice, but, at the end of the day, it is occupancy based sov. You can't afford to no-show, dock up, or safe up, when a vanguard comes to reinforce your stuff. If you do, it'll cost you, effort wise, if nothing else.
You have a much better shot at warding off that initial attack under this system than in the older systems. Back in the days of POS spam, you had to cover all the moons if you didn't want to wake up to hostile towers in the morning, and even if you did, your towers could be reinforced while you were sleeping, giving you one chance during your prime-time (if you timed it right) to defend.
Under this system, you at least have a defined window of your choosing when you have to defend. The system probably will need to be adjusted, but I hope that CCP doesn't make big changes at least until the first major war is fought under this system, so that it gets a real test. If they do, they'll be doing it based on insufficient data. |
Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter
Absolute Zero.
935
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 06:00:22 -
[37] - Quote
Not sure if that's correct, but there's a version that the very word "trolling" the way we use it today may have actually come from military. Just saying. |
Daerrol
Krieger Industries Inc.
Phoebe Freeport Republic
188
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 14:36:35 -
[38] - Quote
Why couldn't you fit ECCM modules to your entosis ship? |
Soldarius
Naliao Inc.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1348
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 14:44:27 -
[39] - Quote
Bubble the command node. Bring destroyers. Kill griffins. Win.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
|
Syrilian
Rapid Withdrawal
130
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 14:56:37 -
[40] - Quote
d0cTeR9 wrote:afkalt wrote:Why do people keep calling legitimate tactics "trolling"?
This is not c17th century warfare, we don't all line up nice and neat and see who has the bigger guns then have a slow ordered march to the middle for a good scrap. Running in and out in a cheap, throwaway ship, that can seriously annoy (but that's about it) larger gangs is trolling.
A single ship disrupting the tactics of larger gangs? I call that being a good pilot. Battles(real life and in EVE) aren't always won by the people that blew the most **** up. |
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