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Ravay Kanjus Caldari Provisions Caldari State 6	Posted - 2015.07.18 03:02:45 - [1] - Quote Alright. I knew that if you killed enough circadian seekers, a drifter battleship could come in. I've ran into them before and they never warp scrambled and webbed. (High sec.) So I see 3 seekers, kill them, and get webbed and scrambled in my Rattlesnake on a way to Guristas Extravaganza. I am beyond disheartened. When was this update put in? Sounds like Seekers aren't even worth the effort anymore without a fleet, since their loot is ******* garbage on price these days. Great. I love loosing a billion ISK. The named NPC even destroyed my wreck and Gecko.
Sobaan Tali Caldari Quick Reaction Force 504	Posted - 2015.07.18 03:15:04 - [2] - Quote I know this is gonna sound like a BS answer, but what has happened to you is kind of the point. CCP is purposely keeping a tight lip about Drifter and Circadian Seeker capabilities because they are suppose to be a big mystery. And they were never meant to be something to shot at for loot or monetary gain either. Like NPC industrials, they're not going to drop anything of value or have anything like a bounty or lp payout for killing them. They serve merely as a lore distraction for us and "live-fire" test bed for CCP to try on a new A.I. Best to right click on them and remove from overview and forget that they are there. They didn't have teeth before, now they have some pretty nasty canines. Leave them alone, and they will leave you alone in kind, just don't linger around their structures either. They hate getting visitors near their towers. I sympathize with you to find this out the hard way, but the best I can offer you is try petitioning for it and see if CCP will return the favor...not likely though. "Tomahawks?" "----in' A, right?" "Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each." "----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Orlacc 876	Posted - 2015.07.18 03:16:23 - [3] - Quote http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=34495 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=418604 5 pt scramble. Ouch. "Measure Twice, Cut Once."
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1335	Posted - 2015.07.18 03:32:29 - [4] - Quote Sorry for your loss. I guess you learned the hard way not to shoot Seekers. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
Ravay Kanjus Caldari Provisions Caldari State 7	Posted - 2015.07.18 11:09:52 - [5] - Quote What really gets me is that the NPC shot the wreck. My Deadspace SB survived the ship loss, but nope. Shot.
stoicfaux 6146	Posted - 2015.07.18 13:56:51 - [6] - Quote Wait until they start podding. Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Amanda Chan Error 404 Pod Not Found 37	Posted - 2015.07.18 14:39:15 - [7] - Quote stoicfaux wrote: Wait until they start podding. Iirc they already pod. Them shooting wrecks is news to me. I wasn't aware they pointed you other then when they were going to dd you, either. Been awhile since I've tangled with them as I have no desire to farm them with a 3 billion isk fit, get low standings and then always look over my shoulders. I suppose op forget that eve is about consequences and this was a harsh reminder. Either way rattlesnakes are as cheap as chips. Op probably already has it replaced. Tinfoil time: what are the odds when this storyline unfolds and they make a serious push into amarr space ccp finally let's capitals in high sec? They posted a plan somewhere that the drifter war is going to destroy npc high sec and that players will be able to bargain with concord to turn areas into high sec. It's all part of their plan to put the universe more into player hands. Otherwise fighting differs in highs high sec will involve either expensive fits or sacrificial ships to eat their dd.
Demerius Xenocratus Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 525	Posted - 2015.07.18 17:13:24 - [8] - Quote Shooting seekers in your shiny mission boat. Why would you do that??
Paranoid Loyd 6314	Posted - 2015.07.18 17:23:15 - [9] - Quote Podding confirmed. The numbers are quite low though, so I am fairly certain you need to be afk or log off in space with a timer to get podded. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 1296	Posted - 2015.07.19 05:04:23 - [10] - Quote are you sure the drifter shot the wreck? I would guess some player came by and looted/salvaged it. Demerius Xenocratus wrote: Shooting seekers in your shiny mission boat. Why would you do that?? I'm not sure which part is worse, Guristas Extra, Rattlesnake, or shooting the worthless npcs. Its like three strikes in a row @ChainsawPlankto
Ravay Kanjus Caldari Provisions Caldari State 7	Posted - 2015.07.19 05:14:54 - [11] - Quote Chainsaw Plankton wrote: are you sure the drifter shot the wreck? I would guess some player came by and looted/salvaged it. Yep, my ship wrecked, then I heard another explosion sound, and noticed my wreck was gone from the list on the right. (Yeah I show wrecks. I salvage a lot and am lazy about making another tab since I don't do many fleet ops.) There was no other players around, as it was very late.
Sobaan Tali Caldari Quick Reaction Force 510	Posted - 2015.07.19 07:10:27 - [12] - Quote Ravay Kanjus wrote: Chainsaw Plankton wrote: are you sure the drifter shot the wreck? I would guess some player came by and looted/salvaged it. Yep, my ship wrecked, then I heard another explosion sound, and noticed my wreck was gone from the list on the right. (Yeah I show wrecks. I salvage a lot and am lazy about making another tab since I don't do many fleet ops.) There was no other players around, as it was very late. Considering they already had out of the box dynamic ROE and could pod players, they are already light years ahead of the current generic AI -- or any Eve has had for that matter -- I'm not really surprised. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they see players dropping deployables and thinking, "Oh, really? I'll shoot that, too, if you wanna play games, player." Maybe at some point, Drifter caps might show up, then we are all really f'ed. Edit: just looked at the killboard; Yep, one MTU so far. Lol "Tomahawks?" "----in' A, right?" "Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each." "----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Cellini Benvenuto Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 35	Posted - 2015.07.19 07:15:10 - [13] - Quote Sobaan Tali wrote: Ravay Kanjus wrote: Chainsaw Plankton wrote: are you sure the drifter shot the wreck? I would guess some player came by and looted/salvaged it. Yep, my ship wrecked, then I heard another explosion sound, and noticed my wreck was gone from the list on the right. (Yeah I show wrecks. I salvage a lot and am lazy about making another tab since I don't do many fleet ops.) There was no other players around, as it was very late. Considering they already had out of the box dynamic ROE and could pod players, they are already light years ahead of the current generic AI -- or any Eve has had for that matter -- I'm not really surprised. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they see players dropping deployables and thinking, "Oh, really? I'll shoot that, too, if you wanna play games, player." Maybe at some point, Drifter caps might show up, then we are all really f'ed. Edit: just looked at the killboard; Yep, one MTU so far. Lol I wish they'd put this AI in every other rat too. Drifters are just amazing with their AI. Sansha incursion rats aren't half bad either. It would make PvE a lot of fun in Eve instead of just 'farming' those sites.
Kaivar Lancer Hier Trading Company 652	Posted - 2015.07.19 15:59:40 - [14] - Quote Pretty soon Drifters will market pvp. Good times ahead. :D
Sobaan Tali Caldari Quick Reaction Force 514	Posted - 2015.07.19 23:13:54 - [15] - Quote Cellini Benvenuto wrote: I wish they'd put this AI in every other rat too. Drifters are just amazing with their AI. Sansha incursion rats aren't half bad either. It would make PvE a lot of fun in Eve instead of just 'farming' those sites. Certainly hope so. This AI humanizes the rats far more so than the generic AI they run with, making them feel less robotic. It would help bridge that massive gap between PVP and PVE in terms of opponent behavior, making expected outcomes a little less predictable and more enjoyable even, and helps to keep us on our toes and prevent bad habits and complacency. I can only imagine how many times people have ran complexes and missions, then hopped into something for PVP and forget that players don't follow the same rules or act that way. Maybe that's just my mindset, but I can't be the only one. I still find it cool that they properly use escalation of force. There is a lot of potential here and CCP could be on to something. Looking forward to the AI overhaul, SoonGäó. "Tomahawks?" "----in' A, right?" "Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each." "----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Kaivar Lancer Hier Trading Company 654	Posted - 2015.07.20 14:20:05 - [16] - Quote ^ Yes, perhaps this is CCP's way of beta-testing new AI. It should make PVE much more interesting.
Pytria Le'Danness Placid Reborn 93	Posted - 2015.07.20 14:38:54 - [17] - Quote Cellini Benvenuto wrote: I wish they'd put this AI in every other rat too. Drifters are just amazing with their AI. Sansha incursion rats aren't half bad either. It would make PvE a lot of fun in Eve instead of just 'farming' those sites. TBH I am not overly impressed by the AI at all. In essence the NPCs still fly to a certain range and orbit their target. The only really noticeable behaviour that I see is that they sometimes switch targets and that they target drones like crazy. To me, 90% of the "AI" buff is that the ships have totally overpowered weaponry compared to the other NPCs, and that's why they are scary, not the AI changes. I guess putting that AI on regular rats would have almost no discernible effect.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 1308	Posted - 2015.07.20 20:33:14 - [18] - Quote imo npc ai is a gimmicky attempt to mimic player actions. Players seem to be able to react quickly and come up with some even more gimmicky fits, and when that doesn't work it is trivial to bring overwhelming force. @ChainsawPlankto
Ravay Kanjus Caldari Provisions Caldari State 8	Posted - 2015.07.20 22:24:45 - [19] - Quote Yeah if this is some new AI they'd put into PVE missions, missioning is dead. If they shoot wrecks great, you've got nothing to loot or salvage. 40-60+% of the ISK from level 4s sometimes comes from loot and salvage.
Jack Morrison Manson Family Advent of Fate 235	Posted - 2015.07.21 05:23:49 - [20] - Quote Ravay Kanjus wrote: Yeah if this is some new AI they'd put into PVE missions, missioning is dead. If they shoot wrecks great, you've got nothing to loot or salvage. 40-60+% of the ISK from level 4s sometimes comes from loot and salvage. Dear sir, here is where you are quite wrong. They make missions like that (more exciting, dangerous, unpredictable) - pilots will find that content atractive. Example - playing chess vs. watching the same movie all over again, surely the chess game is more exciting as it is not that predictable compared to watching the exact same movie for the 103rd time. If 40-60% of your income from missions is loot and salvage - i must say you are doing it wrong or missioning for a corporation with a pisspoor LP store. If CCP adds new content - they don't have to remove the old, so you will still be able to watch your movie - while the rest play chess. Looking for a group to pew with ? Have a chat with me.
Ravay Kanjus Caldari Provisions Caldari State 8	Posted - 2015.07.21 07:53:31 - [21] - Quote Jack Morrison wrote: Ravay Kanjus wrote: Yeah if this is some new AI they'd put into PVE missions, missioning is dead. If they shoot wrecks great, you've got nothing to loot or salvage. 40-60+% of the ISK from level 4s sometimes comes from loot and salvage. Dear sir, here is where you are quite wrong. They make missions like that (more exciting, dangerous, unpredictable) - pilots will find that content atractive. Example - playing chess vs. watching the same movie all over again, surely the chess game is more exciting as it is not that predictable compared to watching the exact same movie for the 103rd time. If 40-60% of your income from missions is loot and salvage - i must say you are doing it wrong or missioning for a corporation with a pisspoor LP store. If CCP adds new content - they don't have to remove the old, so you will still be able to watch your movie - while the rest play chess. Ok so I didn't add in loyalty point rewards. Regardless, a large chunk of mission rewards vanishes if wrecks are removed. I could live with it, if I was refunded all those skillpoints put into salvage. What else am I going to salvage? Wormhole wrecks? Haaa... no the market value of wormhole salvage is dirt anymore.
Barrogh Habalu Forever Winter Absolute Zero. 939	Posted - 2015.07.21 10:24:45 - [22] - Quote Ravay Kanjus wrote: Ok so I didn't add in loyalty point rewards. Regardless, a large chunk of mission rewards vanishes if wrecks are removed. And you can finally use all that time to do more missions and make everything back. That said, NPCs carpet shooting their own wrecks makes no goddamn sense and there's nothing to gain for CCP in it while gutting decent business plans and potential newbro income. I'd relax if I were you. Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Projak Dynamo Pro Synergy 10	Posted - 2015.07.21 11:21:03 - [23] - Quote NPCs that shoot loot!!! OMG, my world would end. I mean what would I even need a Noctis for? The Pro Synergy Pilot is not just a fighting man, he is a salvage expert.-áIf it is lost, in the blackness of space, he will find it. If it has been destroyed, he will loot and salvage it. If it is in his way, he will move it. If he is lucky he will be podded 20 jumps from home, for this is the closest he come to being hero.
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 662	Posted - 2015.07.21 13:23:03 - [24] - Quote They also salvage and collect corpses.
Johnathan Coffey Niforce Triggers 29	Posted - 2015.07.21 16:21:55 - [25] - Quote This thread was thoroughly entertaining. First rule of EVE UI: right click EVERYTHING.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1694	Posted - 2015.07.22 13:31:20 - [26] - Quote I don't get the whole "oooh it's super smart AI that killed you" No, it's the ***** death ray of capital threatening doom shooting that kills them. You could slap that ** to Dread pirate scarlet and she's farm people for lulz all day long. tl;dr: Doomsday >>>>>>>>> AI
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 662	Posted - 2015.07.22 13:43:50 - [27] - Quote afkalt wrote: I don't get the whole "oooh it's super smart AI that killed you" No, it's the ***** death ray of capital threatening doom shooting that kills them. You could slap that ** to Dread pirate scarlet and she's farm people for lulz all day long. tl;dr: Doomsday >>>>>>>>> AI No, OP engaged on a gate. Was too far from gate to make it back. Drifter BS neuts, warp disrupts, and webs. All then while doing around 1000+ dps with its regular weapon.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1694	Posted - 2015.07.22 13:54:01 - [28] - Quote Not really AI though, is it? It's overwhelming firepower. If you gave those weapons to belt/mission rats, the results would be largely the same. It's a bit like saying concord has good AI. It doesn't, it just has access to the "LOL I WIN!" buttons.
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 662	Posted - 2015.07.22 18:23:44 - [29] - Quote I'm just saying it wasn't the doomsday that killed OP. There are belt rats that point you, but none of them are as powerful as the Drifters. Best option for engaging Circadian Seekers right now is on a Gate (within jump range), and on Station (within docking range). That way if Drifter BS warps in, you can dock or jump. The elements the Seekers drop do net a nice amount of isk. Think they sell for 8mil a piece, but haven't checked market recently.
Whiskey Haze Mercurial Mining LLC 6	Posted - 2015.07.23 00:13:04 - [30] - Quote I think it is wonderful that there is this new unpredictability. The game can often be reduced to predictable mathematical formulas where we know if we flip this switch and pull this lever, then we can expect x percent of that outcome. The fact that there was a certain expectation as to the npc behavior and the outrage at something else happening points to our real need for things to get shaken up. I'm sorry for you ship loss, but how wonderful that the EVE world just became a bit more interesting.
Ravay Kanjus Caldari Provisions Caldari State 8	Posted - 2015.07.23 01:34:24 - [31] - Quote Whiskey Haze wrote: I think it is wonderful that there is this new unpredictability. The game can often be reduced to predictable mathematical formulas where we know if we flip this switch and pull this lever, then we can expect x percent of that outcome. The fact that there was a certain expectation as to the npc behavior and the outrage at something else happening points to our real need for things to get shaken up. I'm sorry for you ship loss, but how wonderful that the EVE world just became a bit more interesting. This was my thought when I lost an Ishtar from killing Circadian Seekers and 3 drifters showed up labelled something like "Circadian Sleepers". Misread, stayed around long enough to target and didn't get warp scrambled but woah did I hit that warp button the second I saw my shields melt. I was too slow, but I was able to come back and nab the wreck contents. Was amused at how fast they wrecked, ultimately. This new shooting wrecks bit is what has me angry.
Jack Morrison Manson Family Advent of Fate 235	Posted - 2015.07.23 04:35:46 - [32] - Quote Ravay Kanjus wrote: Whiskey Haze wrote: I think it is wonderful that there is this new unpredictability. The game can often be reduced to predictable mathematical formulas where we know if we flip this switch and pull this lever, then we can expect x percent of that outcome. The fact that there was a certain expectation as to the npc behavior and the outrage at something else happening points to our real need for things to get shaken up. I'm sorry for you ship loss, but how wonderful that the EVE world just became a bit more interesting. This was my thought when I lost an Ishtar from killing Circadian Seekers and 3 drifters showed up labelled something like "Circadian Sleepers". Misread, stayed around long enough to target and didn't get warp scrambled but woah did I hit that warp button the second I saw my shields melt. I was too slow, but I was able to come back and nab the wreck contents. Was amused at how fast they wrecked, ultimately. This new shooting wrecks bit is what has me angry. Edit: At least there's some confirmation. My annoyance on wondering if it's a bug is abated. I just hit a billion ISK again, too. lol. - - - - - - - - - DELETED - - - - - - - - - Dear pilot and do yourself a favor and remove the message from the GM from your post, it is forbidden to post GM/CCP communication. As for the drifters / Seekers - CCP told us they would make them more powerful with the coming patches. So it needs a few sacrifices from the pilots to find out how powerful :D Looking for a group to pew with ? Have a chat with me.
Barrogh Habalu Forever Winter Absolute Zero. 951	Posted - 2015.07.24 06:24:26 - [33] - Quote Whiskey Haze wrote: I think it is wonderful that there is this new unpredictability. The game can often be reduced to predictable mathematical formulas where we know if we flip this switch and pull this lever, then we can expect x percent of that outcome. The fact that there was a certain expectation as to the npc behavior and the outrage at something else happening points to our real need for things to get shaken up. I'm sorry for you ship loss, but how wonderful that the EVE world just became a bit more interesting. Arguably, we currently don't have much of it. We have players that flag themselves for drifter aggression, then we roll dice and determine if he dies (terms and conditions apply). Sure, CCP change different bits here and there, but once they stop, it will go back to normal levers and formulas, except this time it will be mostly about avoiding semi-random encounters with predictable results rather than tanking predictable DPS or something. Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 1320	Posted - 2015.07.24 08:01:20 - [34] - Quote afkalt wrote: Not really AI though, is it? It's overwhelming firepower. If you gave those weapons to belt/mission rats, the results would be largely the same. It's a bit like saying concord has good AI. It doesn't, it just has access to the "LOL I WIN!" buttons. thats what gets me with pretty much ever "NPC AI blah blah" thread. Although just giving npcs abilities to make choices (pretty much an aggro table, and triggers at least in the current designs) doesn't really do anything with general NPC capabilities. NPCs have a long way to go before they are ready for AI imo. with burners it seems like they have the intention to work on it. I'm not familiar enough with drifters to say, although it seems to mostly be overwhelming ability from what I've seen. General NPCs, holy needs a revamp batman. @ChainsawPlankto
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2308	Posted - 2015.07.25 00:43:39 - [35] - Quote You realise drifters don't have equivalent EHP to a player BS yet even. Compared to a buffer fit BS they have about 1/5th the EHP. And since they have no local reps buffer fits are what we should be comparing them to. Their neuts aren't as powerful as a Heavy Neut either from what I know. Their points are a little nasty at 5 strength, but honestly in most cases 1 strength would hold you just fine, and the range isn't much more than links give. So...... other than the DD they are still actually inferior to most player battleships.
Kharnakh Vak'Atioth Dominion 51	Posted - 2015.07.25 18:47:29 - [36] - Quote Yeah I found out the hard way about the drifter scrams today too (https://zkillboard.com/kill/48065433/), they must have added that with Aegis. They didn't shoot my wreck though, nor did they shoot the alt in a rookie ship i sent to fetch the dropped mods (thank you loot fairy, appreciated =P), well at least not till I'd finished and i attacked them to see if i could work out if they scrambled or just disrupted. No dice though, they one shotted it without warp jamming, haha.
Rea Rose Geuzen Inc 0	Posted - 2015.07.28 13:01:27 - [37] - Quote Ravay Kanjus wrote: Whiskey Haze wrote: I think it is wonderful that there is this new unpredictability. The game can often be reduced to predictable mathematical formulas where we know if we flip this switch and pull this lever, then we can expect x percent of that outcome. The fact that there was a certain expectation as to the npc behavior and the outrage at something else happening points to our real need for things to get shaken up. I'm sorry for you ship loss, but how wonderful that the EVE world just became a bit more interesting. This was my thought when I lost an Ishtar from killing Circadian Seekers and 3 drifters showed up labelled something like "Circadian Sleepers". Misread, stayed around long enough to target and didn't get warp scrambled but woah did I hit that warp button the second I saw my shields melt. I was too slow, but I was able to come back and nab the wreck contents. Was amused at how fast they wrecked, ultimately. This new shooting wrecks bit is what has me angry. I lost a faction fit gila to Artemis. it was my own mistake for not looking at the screen for 5 seconds and only then seeing i am for 50% in armour. I was to slow to warp out. to be honest i learned a lesson. that is what makes this game good.
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 664	Posted - 2015.07.28 13:18:07 - [38] - Quote Has anyone tried to alpha a Drifter BS, or does the "overshield" kinda negate that idea?
Celthric Kanerian Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation 359	Posted - 2015.07.28 14:56:53 - [39] - Quote Why the heck would one shoot at a named npc in space without googling it? Also, why the hell do it in your most expensive ship?
Sobaan Tali Caldari Quick Reaction Force 534	Posted - 2015.07.28 17:16:42 - [40] - Quote Celthric Kanerian wrote: Why the heck would one shoot at a named npc in space without googling it? Also, why the hell do it in your most expensive ship? So that others may learn well from that person's mistakes, making it possible for the rest to learn the "easy" way. Trouble is, that process means someone's gotta bite the bullet and take one for the team and for science. Why no google? Maybe he/she did and came up empty. Why in a Rattler? Complacency, the mind set of "Rats in High Sec can't be that bad, right," would be my guess. "Tomahawks?" "----in' A, right?" "Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each." "----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."

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