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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
428
   |
Posted - 2015.07.19 18:00:20 -
[31] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:If you don't like the war, then your government shouldn't have started it.
The Starkmanir Tribe would likely have a different opinion of who started the war.
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Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1202
|
Posted - 2015.07.19 20:08:42 -
[32] - Quote
Uh...
There is a difference between the Republic (up until prime minister Midular) and the resistance movement, comprising the Elders of the Minmatar Tribes.
The Republic never started this war, and for what is apparent from most transcripts, the actual Republic government that was in place under Midular was as much taken aback by ambassador Keitan Yun and the ensuing attack as anyone else.
Likewise, the Minmatar forces were baffled enough that a handful of them deserted to go support the Elder fleets. If the Republic had really been planning this, it would have been the whole Republic Fleet that would have joined the fight too, and not a few haphazard elements.
The new Republic however, when Midular got deposed, perfectly condoned the event.
The previous Republic instance signed a peace treaty with the Amarr Empire after the Rebellion, and both became part of the Yulai treaty as well as CONCORD signatories. They lived for a few centuries under that very state, while the war was actually fought by dissidents and freedom fighters, as well as the Elders that built that fleet using their connections (how did everyone miss this, though, I wonder ?).
The only war that happened was limited to border skirmishes with the Ammatar Mandate that mostly served as a proxy for both sides.
So there is a clear disconnect between freedom fighters, resistance movements and the Elders, and the Minmatar Republic before the event. The latter was at an uneasy peace while the former never dropped arms.
That is also why incidentally that freedom fighters got branded as terrorists by CONCORD for all those years. This is also why the culprits of the attacks got charged as guilty of crimes against humanity.
Incidentally, the war ceased when the peace was signed after the Minmatar Rebellion, if we speak about legitimate recognized governments.
However, the war never ceased for the Elders or every other resistance movement. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2005
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Posted - 2015.07.19 21:13:43 -
[33] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:
So there is a clear disconnect between freedom fighters, resistance movements and the Elders, and the Minmatar Republic before the event. The latter was at an uneasy peace while the former never dropped arms.
Even if we accept this, the key word here is before.
There is no disconnect between the self-styled Elders and the Republic in its current form.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
434
|
Posted - 2015.07.19 22:02:01 -
[34] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:Even if we accept this, the key word here is before.
There is no disconnect between the self-styled Elders and the Republic in its current form.
And that does not change the origins of the conflict, nor who the original aggressors were. |
Frenjo Borkstar
Borkstar Laboratories
119
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 01:52:01 -
[35] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:It must be noted that the Empress appears considerably more tired and aged than before; though many factors must be considered, something may be wrong. Mr. Anteovnuecci, for Her Imperial Majesty to look in such a manner is precisely as the Emperor of Amarr should look. Nothing is wrong. She appeared better than ever. Any aging demonstrates that she has devoted herself to her work, and is a sign of her growing in wisdom and experience.
As I commented to my associate Archivist Anteovnuecci, in her holo-image, she appears distant, and has a vacant expression.
It's nothing to do with age.
Dr. Frenjo Borkstar,
//Founder of the Drifter Research Assembly//
Lead for Arek'Jaalan's Project Salus, Co-Lead for Project Trireme,
Borkstar Laboratories.
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Ginia Itonula
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
70
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 05:15:05 -
[36] - Quote
All this bickering over who started the fighting between the Amarr and Minmatar or whether Jamyl Sarum is a clone is pointless.
Maximillian Singularity will take his rightful place soon. And in so doing, all such issues will be resolved in short order. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2006
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 06:18:24 -
[37] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Rodj Blake wrote:Even if we accept this, the key word here is before.
There is no disconnect between the self-styled Elders and the Republic in its current form.
And that does not change the origins of the conflict, nor who the original aggressors were.
There was a peace treaty. The old war was over.
But if you really want to go back to ancient history, the Matari were the original aggressors when the sinned against God.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
|
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
577
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Posted - 2015.07.20 06:32:21 -
[38] - Quote
Ironically enough, parading a bunch of shiny ships around the Throne Worlds is a showcase of one more than the other.
As for who started the war - does it really matter? Can you sleep easier at night knowing you're somehow a victim in the grander scheme of things and the other side is the 'villanous agressor' ?
Amusing, nevertheless.
- Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim
Angels are never far...
Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc
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Haruchai Khan
Secretariat General of the Republic Fleet
61
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 08:41:49 -
[39] - Quote
Statement from the Republic Fleet Diplomatic Mission
"No assurances or communications from the Empire have been received in regard to the recent speech of Empress Jamyl announcing new warships. No diplomatic context has been forthcoming despite efforts to contact the various missions.
The Republic Fleet, on instruction from the Tribal Council, hereby announces that comparable technologies will be incorporated into a new class of Fleet Battleship in order to maintain a balance of power in the cluster. The Sanmatar has called on the other races of New Eden to announce similar measures so that Imperial ambition may be curbed by reality.
In addition, The Tribal Council has instructed that the Empire Threat Index be raised two levels to Imminent. Military preparations consistent with this heightened threat level are being implemented with immediate effect. This includes the Republic Fleet withdrawing the policing action taken to curb the frontline Militias from excessive activities in the disputed territories.
These announcements are made with regret. Whilst the Amarr Empire maintains - through a hardline reading of the doctrine of Reclaiming - this stance of permanent aggressive war towards all Peoples of the Cluster, it has made the pursuit of peace a complex matter. Once again the Empire has demonstrated its disregard for the rights of others by developing weapons of war that cannot be explained away as anything other than that aggression made material.
It is regrettable that the advances of the Pakhshi Peace Conferences have been so carelessly ignored, and that the contributions of the Amarr delegations have been shown to be mere misdirection. The Republic Fleet stands ready to defend our borders against any and all aggressors."
Statement Ends. No Questions will be taken at this time. |
Anslo
Scope Works
32047
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 11:36:04 -
[40] - Quote
Uuuuh what?
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Utari Onzo
Praetorian Auxiliary Force
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
459
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 11:38:10 -
[41] - Quote
Haruchai Khan wrote:Statement from the Republic Fleet Diplomatic Mission
"No assurances or communications from the Empire have been received in regard to the recent speech of Empress Jamyl announcing new warships. No diplomatic context has been forthcoming despite efforts to contact the various missions.
The Republic Fleet, on instruction from the Tribal Council, hereby announces that comparable technologies will be incorporated into a new class of Fleet Battleship in order to maintain a balance of power in the cluster. The Sanmatar has called on the other races of New Eden to announce similar measures so that Imperial ambition may be curbed by reality.
In addition, The Tribal Council has instructed that the Empire Threat Index be raised two levels to Imminent. Military preparations consistent with this heightened threat level are being implemented with immediate effect. This includes the Republic Fleet withdrawing the policing action taken to curb the frontline Militias from excessive activities in the disputed territories.
These announcements are made with regret. Whilst the Amarr Empire maintains - through a hardline reading of the doctrine of Reclaiming - this stance of permanent aggressive war towards all Peoples of the Cluster, it has made the pursuit of peace a complex matter. Once again the Empire has demonstrated its disregard for the rights of others by developing weapons of war that cannot be explained away as anything other than that aggression made material.
It is regrettable that the advances of the Pakhshi Peace Conferences have been so carelessly ignored, and that the contributions of the Amarr delegations have been shown to be mere misdirection. The Republic Fleet stands ready to defend our borders against any and all aggressors."
Statement Ends. No Questions will be taken at this time.
Would you mind presenting your credentials as an official spokesman of the official Republic Fleet and not a capsuleer corporation named conveniently?
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
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Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
149
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 12:01:09 -
[42] - Quote
It's a bit odd to watch these threads inevitably descend into "You started it!" "Nuh uh!" "Yuh huh!" albeit a bit more verbosely. In the end it doesn't matter. What is, is. This fight can only end with either the complete destruction of at least one of the sides or the release of our people.
There really is very little to discuss on that matter, so we will remain locked in war - officially or unofficially - either for perpetuity or until something rather major changes in New Eden. Peace is extremely unlikely and it's time we all started making peace with that fact. |
Hendar Attor
New Eden Cultural Exchange
Advent of Fate
0
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 14:50:44 -
[43] - Quote
In the grim, darkness of New Eden, there is only war? |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1984
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 15:01:02 -
[44] - Quote
Haruchai Khan wrote:The Republic Fleet stands ready to defend our borders against any and all aggressors.
You are the aggressors in this war.
"The word of the Empress is the word of God, the will of the Empress is the will of God. Let no man seek to shirk his obligations before God and His chosen representative in this world."
-- Datna Jesebel, Principal Clerk of the Theology Council
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Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
150
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 15:15:23 -
[45] - Quote
Let me cut the next couple of pages short:
Nuh-uh!
Yu-huh!
Nuh-uh!
Yu-huh!
Did I miss anything? |
Anabella Rella
Gradient
1978
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 15:18:52 -
[46] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:
There was a peace treaty. The old war was over.
But if you really want to go back to ancient history, the Matari were the original aggressors when the sinned against God.
Prove that your so-called god exists and that we "sinned" against it. Idiot.
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1433
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 15:26:52 -
[47] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Let me cut the next couple of pages short:
Nuh-uh!
Yu-huh!
Nuh-uh!
Yu-huh!
Did I miss anything?
'My God's bigger than your non-belief in God'...
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Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
150
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 15:27:55 -
[48] - Quote
Nuh-uh! |
Hendar Attor
New Eden Cultural Exchange
Advent of Fate
0
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 15:30:11 -
[49] - Quote
/grabs popcorn |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Multicultural F1 Brigade
5336
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 16:01:49 -
[50] - Quote
Well, I certainly hope you lot get your thumbs out of your assess and sort out some sort of detente soon. The Gallente and my people are already getting bored of war and we've only been at it for a couple of centuries - I daresay that neither of our nations has any intention of being shackled to someone elses war indefinitely.
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
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Hendar Attor
New Eden Cultural Exchange
Advent of Fate
0
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 16:07:43 -
[51] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Well, I certainly hope you lot get your thumbs out of your assess and sort out some sort of detente soon.
And miss out on the chance for new toys to play with? You're kidding, right? |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
Sani-Sabik
892
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 17:24:00 -
[52] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:
Oh really? How the hell did she manage to "return from the dead" after her apparent ritual suicide during the succession trials, then?
Logically there are only two possibilities.
There is a third possibility.
Magic.
That aside, I have one, major objection to this whole shebang.
The Empress Jamyl, chose to style herself Jamyl Sarum 1.
This is, according to tradition, Utterly Unacceptable.
You see, when one becomes Emperor, or indeed, Empress, one is supposed to give up family associations, and join the Imperial Family, transcending mundane Family politics, and accepting the Duty of being the Representative to God, and all that.
Thusly, styling oneself Jamyl Sarum 1, instead of Jamyl 1, is to retain the Sarum Family link, and thusly, to promote the Sarum Family agenda.
Which is something that the Empress is supposed to be above !
Thusly, I object to this sort of thing.
Down with this sort of thing.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
955
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 17:46:52 -
[53] - Quote
Most likely a CONCORD registry thing.
https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Jamyl%20I
The proper name is already taken. As usual, I blame lazy bureaucrats. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
450
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 18:01:57 -
[54] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:But if you really want to go back to ancient history, the Matari were the original aggressors when the sinned against God.
To quote a junior engineer I once flew with, upon seeing a hundred titans take the field at once, "Wow. Just... just wow."
If we were going to be so venal and ephemeral as to take that justification as valid, then what is there to invalidate any claim of justification for violence on similar grounds? 'I shot you because you sinned against God'.
Surely you can see how that sort of sophistry can lead to nothing but death and destruction in the long term, yes? |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2013
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 20:40:27 -
[55] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Rodj Blake wrote:
There was a peace treaty. The old war was over.
But if you really want to go back to ancient history, the Matari were the original aggressors when the sinned against God.
Prove that your so-called god exists and that we "sinned" against it. Idiot.
When we found you, you were a primitive people that had denied God. As an act of generosity they gave you technology far ahead of your own, we took you to the stars, taught you laws, and civilized you. And all this was repaid in terror and death!
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2013
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 20:42:45 -
[56] - Quote
On top of that, have you ever tried getting Concord to change your registry name? It's nigh on impossible!
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
160
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 20:44:22 -
[57] - Quote
You're really going to pretend we weren't among the stars already? Spirits below, that's a bit much even for you Blake. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2013
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 20:46:52 -
[58] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:You're really going to pretend we weren't among the stars already? Spirits below, that's a bit much even for you Blake.
I'm glad that you agree with me on the technology, civilization and law part.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
160
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 20:53:02 -
[59] - Quote
Certainly, we made it to the stars and had the longest recorded period of peace in New Eden entirely through the use of basic grunts and skillful manipulation of wooden sticks. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
7337
|
Posted - 2015.07.20 21:33:21 -
[60] - Quote
And duct tape, Del'thul. Never forget the duct tape.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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