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ok, so can we get GM conformation on this once and for all

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
The Blackfish	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:20:00 - [1] I understand your making it so the icons change if a wrecks been looted or not. fantastic stuff, thanks :) but what no gm will anser is this: if a wreck has no loot IN THE FIRST PLACE, will it show up as looted? or will i have to go loot an empty can to get it to show up as looted? i ask because right now nothing about this game ****es me off except when i kill 30 rats on a mission and loot 30 wrecks over 40 minutes to find out 4 had loot. so, please tell us, will wrecks with no loot show up as "looted" or will this change only the fact that once we loot empty cans they show up "looted" thanks for your response in advance :)
The Blackfish	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:36:00 - [2] bump
Centurin Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:38:00 - [3] Every npc doesn't drop loot anymore? ----------------------------------------------- "It's great playing Caldari Online, isn't it?" by Xori Ruscuv
mechtech	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:38:00 - [4] Its probably a "feature"
The Blackfish	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:40:00 - [5] nope, they all drop wrecks for salavage, but most of em have no loot in em. the problem at the moment is theres no way to tell in advance which ones had loot. short of equipping a cargo scanner, but honestly i cant afford to give up a MEd power slot.
Khnaedra D'Val Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:42:00 - [6] 30 minutes? How I wish I could loot a mission that quickly! :( Spent 1hr 20m last night, in a Badger with 10MN AB, flying round all the cans in the 3rd part of Illegal Activity (L3), empty the cans......granted, that one does give out quite a bit of loot (780m3, to be precise). The majority of the time wasn't spent looting, it was spent being within range of the previous wreck with a single 150mm railgun, so that I knew which I'd looted already. If there's no differentiation to a NEW wreck as to whether it contains anything, the colour-status (or icon-change, or whatever is planned) is going to make no difference. For a mission-area that took about 10 minutes to clear, in a Raven.
Danzig256k Caldari Mortal Devastating Kin	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:45:00 - [7] well in case ya haven't tested it. ya can use tractor beams on the wreaks. so i have been tractoring all the wreaks together, then loot/salvage each wreak. so far that is working out for me
The Blackfish	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:47:00 - [8] i cant help but notice that the other wreck question got the color change anser in 10 minutes and this ones being left alone. so either they havent decided yet or NO im guessing... its a shame, because as a newer player, this wreck problem RUINS missions for me. i dont have the skills to go to emch 5 to get salvage, im just trying to get to my Battle ship.

Jiekon	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:48:00 - [9] i THINK we're making it so that once you open the wreck, it will change colour depending on if there is loot in it or not. So that you can quickly tell what wrecks have been opened / looted when hauling loot around from the battlefied. It makes much more sense than teh cargo container scenario we had previously because if you destroy something...well...theres some remnants left behind. ___________________________ ~Jiekon Known Issues Bug Reporting ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████

The Blackfish	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:48:00 - [10] Originally by: Danzig256k well in case ya haven't tested it. ya can use tractor beams on the wreaks. so i have been tractoring all the wreaks together, then loot/salvage each wreak. so far that is working out for me fine if you have salvage, completly fun killing if you dont. was there really a need to eliminate the ease of only npc's with **** dropping cans? couldnt we just have had cans and wrecks for those older player accounts with enough SP to have slavaging?
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:50:00 - [11] In other words Loot is not salvage. You will know which wrecks have loot and which can be salvaged. Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead . Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.
The Blackfish	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:50:00 - [12] Originally by: Jiekon i THINK we're making it so that once you open the wreck, it will change colour depending on if there is loot in it or not. So that you can quickly tell what wrecks have been opened / looted when hauling loot around from the battlefied. It makes much more sense than teh cargo container scenario we had previously because if you destroy something...well...theres some remnants left behind. thansk for the quick response. so pretty much salvaging is now goign to be a REQUIRED skill to get your loot? because i refuse to spend 10-15 minutes att a mission killing 20-25 wrecks in a spread out pattern, then having to spend ANOTHER 30 minutes going back through finding out if they had loot. the color change is nice, but considering i already destroy looted wrecks, it in essence does NOTHING for the main problem of having to check every can for loot and wasting a massive amount of time.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:53:00 - [13] I think the OP's point is that previously, if a rat dropped nothing (IE, crappy rat, or just didnt drop anything for whatever reason) you got no can. so nothing to check. Now, you ALWAYS get the wreck. even if no loot was dropped. and chances are, there will be nothing to salvage either. but its there, you need to check it, and you checked it for nothing. before, a can always had SOMETHING in it. wrecks may be empty, and that is annoying. Originally by: Tuxford Yes we don't play on our main accounts simply because you would lose all respect for us
The Blackfish	Posted - 2006.12.01 19:56:00 - [14] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn I think the OP's point is that previously, if a rat dropped nothing (IE, crappy rat, or just didnt drop anything for whatever reason) you got no can. so nothing to check. Now, you ALWAYS get the wreck. even if no loot was dropped. and chances are, there will be nothing to salvage either. but its there, you need to check it, and you checked it for nothing. before, a can always had SOMETHING in it. wrecks may be empty, and that is annoying. its not even that wrecks are empty, its that a hig precentage of wrecks are now empty. like if 70% of wrecks had loot, cool, you can loot a few and leave if its not worth your time. but right now, a ridiculosly low number of the 30 pirates or so you killed have real loot on them. flying through space for 30 minutes checking empty wrecks = not fun. and, considering that as a newer player missions are the easiest way for me to make consistint money, its activly making me reconsider my desier to reup at the end of the 3 months i bought. eve's a great game, but when you introduce a new mechanic that pretty much makes looting my kiils a HUGE HUGE time sink....its very very fustrating. please come up with a fix, even if its to give all ships an extra med power slot so they can mount a cargo scanner.
Kylania Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:04:00 - [15] Salvagers want to salvage EVERY wreck. Looters only want to loot wrecks with loot in them. So why in the Name of Fedo would you color based on if you've checked something!? Before Revelations we didn't have to fly over to check NON-EXISTENT cans, so why are you forcing us to do so now? Color based on loot content, not who's opened what. Or simply don't drop wrecks if there's no loot. Anything else is an insult to mission runners. -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap \| CCG Card Lookup
Tao Han Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:11:00 - [16] Quote: Color based on loot content, not who's opened what. Or simply don't drop wrecks if there's no loot. Anything else is an insult to mission runners. How about trying to adapt to the changes. If it now is that about 70% of the wrecks has loot, why should you know before checking? With color changes to which wrecks has been checked you now know which are left to check. Its not exactly brain surgery. Its a change to gameplay, live with it.
Snarls McGee	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:20:00 - [17] Originally by: Tao Han With color changes to which wrecks has been checked you now know which are left to check. Its not exactly brain surgery. Its a change to gameplay, live with it. Looting wasn't exactly thrilling before and with the new changes (loot drop nerf, having to check EVERY wreckage, etc) it is absoultey beyond annoying to have to spend 5-10 minutes to check 5 BC wrecks to find 1 Miner I laser..
Kylania Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:23:00 - [18] Edited by: Kylania on 01/12/2006 20:24:12 Originally by: Tao Han Quote: Color based on loot content, not who's opened what. Or simply don't drop wrecks if there's no loot. Anything else is an insult to mission runners. How about trying to adapt to the changes. If it now is that about 70% of the wrecks has loot, why should you know before checking? With color changes to which wrecks has been checked you now know which are left to check. Its not exactly brain surgery. Its a change to gameplay, live with it. Ok fine, no problem at all to adapt. But lets see how this would be if other EVE systems were changed to work the way loot cans were... You're camping a gate... the gate goes off and in comes in 50(!) ships on your overview. But don't worry, it'll color all the ships that weren't a real player after you attack them so you don't try to fire at them again till you find the one that was actually a player. The market... it'll bring up every station that has items for sale. You have to rclick and show info on every single one, but don't worry, it'll color the ones that weren't for sale till you find the one that was actually for sale. Combat... you have 3 guns but 18 gun icons, when you want to fire you just keep clicking buttons, but don't worry the ones that weren't actually your weapons will color. Mission runners shouldn't have to filter through 70% extra empty time wasting "wrecks" just to support this silly rig system, especially since there's virtually no wreck/rig materials in missions. -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap \| CCG Card Lookup
Kichae Chandramani Quasar Consortium	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:31:00 - [19] Originally by: Kylania Salvagers want to salvage EVERY wreck. Looters only want to loot wrecks with loot in them. From what I've heard, looters, in general, don't want things around that don't benefit them. There's been no end to people saying to drop wrecks entirely, or to make them pop when the loots been taken, or to not spawn if there's no loot inside. Quote: So why in the Name of Fedo would you color based on if you've checked something!? Because you don't have ESP, and can't remotely check the contents without opening or scanning with a cargo scanner? Seems logical enough to me. Quote: Before Revelations we didn't have to fly over to check NON-EXISTENT cans, so why are you forcing us to do so now? Because those non-existent cans exist now. Quote: Color based on loot content, not who's opened what. Or simply don't drop wrecks if there's no loot. Anything else is an insult to mission runners. Ah, see, there it is again: Don't drop wrecks if there's no loot. That's like saying don't spawn an asteroid belt if there's no Omber. So, it's a little less convenient for you to get your loot. There's an easy solution, though, which just about everyone complaining about this has panned: Hire a salvager, and pay them in salvage. Let the salvager check all of the cans for you. He'll pop those with no loot for you. He gets a field of wrecks to salvage, and you get a clear view of those with loot. But, of course, that would take teamwork, which is way harder than complaining.
The Blackfish	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:34:00 - [20] Edited by: The Blackfish on 01/12/2006 20:34:56 Originally by: Kichae Chandramani Originally by: Kylania Salvagers want to salvage EVERY wreck. Looters only want to loot wrecks with loot in them. From what I've heard, looters, in general, don't want things around that don't benefit them. There's been no end to people saying to drop wrecks entirely, or to make them pop when the loots been taken, or to not spawn if there's no loot inside. Quote: So why in the Name of Fedo would you color based on if you've checked something!? Because you don't have ESP, and can't remotely check the contents without opening or scanning with a cargo scanner? Seems logical enough to me. Quote: Before Revelations we didn't have to fly over to check NON-EXISTENT cans, so why are you forcing us to do so now? Because those non-existent cans exist now. Quote: Color based on loot content, not who's opened what. Or simply don't drop wrecks if there's no loot. Anything else is an insult to mission runners. Ah, see, there it is again: Don't drop wrecks if there's no loot. That's like saying don't spawn an asteroid belt if there's no Omber. So, it's a little less convenient for you to get your loot. There's an easy solution, though, which just about everyone complaining about this has panned: Hire a salvager, and pay them in salvage. Let the salvager check all of the cans for you. He'll pop those with no loot for you. He gets a field of wrecks to salvage, and you get a clear view of those with loot. But, of course, that would take teamwork, which is way harder than complaining. its not ALITTLE more inconveint, if it was, no one would be ***ing. its INCREDIBLY inconvenint. and im sorry, ***** up your loot system is not a game change mechinic, its a mistake. loot, being ya know, the POINT of killing people should not take me 30 minutes of my limited play time to collect, im sorry, thats just retarded. the looting system was fine pre rev, now its broken. FIX IT. as to needing team work, why should it take me a 5 person team to loot cans in space? when does that get fun and make it part of the game? "hey guys, i need you to fly from point a to b in afk mode to check for loot. aint this game grand?!?"
Miri Tirzan Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:36:00 - [21] Originally by: Jiekon i THINK we're making it so that once you open the wreck, it will change colour depending on if there is loot in it or not. So that you can quickly tell what wrecks have been opened / looted when hauling loot around from the battlefied. It makes much more sense than teh cargo container scenario we had previously because if you destroy something...well...theres some remnants left behind. The only issue I have is that too many wrecks have nothing! No salvage, no loot. If a wreck is left, then there is something there to salvage whether it is only metal scraps. The wrecks that leave nothing, well what is left to make a wreck out of? svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
Girl Interrupted	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:37:00 - [22] I did a mission the other day where I killed about 40 rats, and 2 of them had loot on the wrecks. That isn't anything like 70% it is 5%, meaning that 95% of my running around checking wrecks was wasted. Honestly I am not going to be playing a game where I will be spending most of my time doing something with such a low return for effort. That's the OPs position, and I agree. The Dev's suggested possible fix doesn't fix our problem( I find it hard to believe we are isolated cases ), so it's no real fix at all. Anyway I spent an hour and a half on a mission that previously took 20 minutes. I then started a long training skill and haven't logged on since. If the Devs' fix ends up as stated, then I will have to decide whether I will even bother to log in to set training. I certainly won't be playing as is, and I won't be renewing my account. I suspect the fix will be better than the Dev stated at some point, because I can't imagine having stayed past the first few days with the stated solution implemented. No new players = a dead game.
Malena Panic Gallente Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:43:00 - [23] Give it up, CCP, you don't have a chance! You're not going to change the MMORPG player's vaccuum cleaning instinct! It's been trained through years of operant conditioning in every other game!
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:46:00 - [24] The basic end point is the game didnt need any more timesinks. certainly not any more repetition timesinks in missions. pre-kali i was already ignoring most of the cans simply cause it took too much time to check them, the loot wasnt very good anyway, and i only had enough time to be on for 1 to 2 missions. as it WAS, if i had 1 hour to play, i basically couldnt do anything, since EVERYTHING takes so fricking long. Now I can sneak in 1 mission unless i want to ignore the cans...maybe sometimes i want the cans...time should not be the main limitation on looting cans in a mission, im sorry, thats dumb. This is made worse by the fact that less loot seems to drop now....instead of 70% of wrecks having loot, only 30% do...so you are wasting many minutes to do essentially nothing. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Originally by: Tuxford Yes we don't play on our main accounts simply because you would lose all respect for us
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:49:00 - [25] Kill npc corporations for players. No EVE player should be allowed to fly a capital ship, mining barge, BS or tech II ship if they are in a NPC corporation. Originally by: Dwight Hammerhead . Just because Kali is already in testing. If CCP were actually concerned about what ppl think they would of opened it up for discussion.
Uggster Caldari Never'where	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:51:00 - [26] Originally by: Malena Panic Give it up, CCP, you don't have a chance! You're not going to change the MMORPG player's vaccuum cleaning instinct! It's been trained through years of operant conditioning in every other game! Absolutly LOL So true, so very true. _______________________________________________ Sig removed as inappropriate- Tirg Story of my life that one :(
RedLion Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:58:00 - [27] For **** sake CCP: I'm doing the Blockade (50+++ ships killed) And many of these ships are not dropping loot. And the ships gets spread out over a whole lot of space. Don't tell some arsy comment about we have to inspect all these wrecks to get a Rocket Launcher I every now and then... gg. death to mission running and alot of the fun part in eve....
Justen Kase	Posted - 2006.12.01 20:59:00 - [28] Originally by: Girl Interrupted I did a mission the other day where I killed about 40 rats, and 2 of them had loot on the wrecks. That isn't anything like 70% it is 5%, meaning that 95% of my running around checking wrecks was wasted. Honestly I am not going to be playing a game where I will be spending most of my time doing something with such a low return for effort. That's the OPs position, and I agree. The Dev's suggested possible fix doesn't fix our problem( I find it hard to believe we are isolated cases ), so it's no real fix at all. Anyway I spent an hour and a half on a mission that previously took 20 minutes. I then started a long training skill and haven't logged on since. If the Devs' fix ends up as stated, then I will have to decide whether I will even bother to log in to set training. I certainly won't be playing as is, and I won't be renewing my account. I suspect the fix will be better than the Dev stated at some point, because I can't imagine having stayed past the first few days with the stated solution implemented. No new players = a dead game. BANG! You hit the nail on the head...along with Kylania and others including the OP. After three missions yesterday I am at the point where I am not even looting anymore...what's the point...better to run another mission with bounties and rewards and time bonuses than sift through the crap left behind. Sorry CCP BIG disservice you've done to us. ROLLBACK! Team work is great but you should be able to play the game solo...crying team work is a cop out in the same way we are called complaining. Bah! Humbug!
Efour Amarr Matari Shipworks	Posted - 2006.12.01 21:06:00 - [29] I think this is THE post that sums it up perfectly and hopefully Tuesdays patch will resolve this little problem for the people that it effects. Hoovering loot, lool Never mind only 5000000 trillion salavges and you can build 1 rig!
The Blackfish	Posted - 2006.12.01 21:16:00 - [30] if you wanna meet us halfway, make cargo scanners a low slot. if the point of this was to make cargo scanners useful, ok, i can deal. but take them off the valuable med slots. i lose to pvp'ers as it is, i dont need to sac a shield or burner for a cargo scanner!

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