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Iain Cariaba 1694	Posted - 2015.07.20 16:23:06 - [31] - Quote Escalated play costs? It's cost US$15 a month per account for at least the 10 years I've been playing. Did it go up in the last couple days? Everything else is in the hands of the players, and rightly out of CCP's hands. EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid. I couldn't have said it better. Will troll for a t-shirt.
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 429	Posted - 2015.07.20 16:44:22 - [32] - Quote Idk OP. I came from drake fleet times, when i made 6b in drone lands in a few months. I went out to nul recentlyl for about 2 weeks with a t2 fit arty maelstrom and farmed a couple hours a night. Was able to generate a bill pretty easily in the time frame i had. If i didnt hate isk grinding through anoms, i could have probably managed a couple bill no problem. Then i realized null at the time was stagnant and a series of repetitive structure grinds. Came back to FW and i can PvP AND make isk at the same time. That is how i view FW. If YOU really want cheap fights and get out of anom farming join FW. Yes you can cap plexes that take 20min, but in that time you will most likely get a fight. Something far more entertaining than sitting in an anom for 20min. T1 are also still quite capable if you know what youre doing. Also, not all t2 ships are 200m. AF are dirt cheap and still perform well against anything except t3d. Then you have inties, which are also cheap and effective. Hell, even my fully t2 fit muninn is like 160m total cost. Take 40m off from insurance and its around 120m fitted. Then you have t1 bcs and BS which are also very affordable thanks to high insurance payouts. A t1 phoon costs 60-80m fitted after insurance. I would assume geddons/domis and more are similar. Hurricanes/drakes cost me 20-30m.plus since im in FW, fleet issue ships are only an extra 10-20m over the cost of T1 AND still get good insurance payout. There are plenty of options available to get cheap pvp that dont take long to make the isk. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 11868	Posted - 2015.07.20 16:44:59 - [33] - Quote Seven Koskanaiken wrote: "I just want to fly space ships" "Cool, T1 are cheap and easily replaceable" "But I don't want to fly T1" "Well you can join a group that flies T2" "But I can't afford T2" "Well, they might not turn down a T1 logi" "I don't want to fly logi" "OK, then join a group with full SRP coverage for T2" "But I don't want to join one of those groups" "Then you'll have to be self sufficient" "But I don't want to be self sufficient" "Then stick to T1" "But I don't want to fly T1....." http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_UzGgIz52YU/maxresdefault.jpg It was then that Seven Koskanaiken realized that he's done something incredible. He, in one post, described EVERY whine post in the history of not only EVE Online General Discussion, but the Internet in general.
SFM Hobb3s Wrecking Shots Black Legion. 337	Posted - 2015.07.20 16:56:52 - [34] - Quote Because everyone appears to be risk averse, and because certain GRRReifers absolutely want their blobs to be able to destroy outposts, OP argument will likely soon be moot. Soon the inventory of nullsec outposts will match the emptiness of most null systems. You will soon see a point where there are no markets in null, and alliance members in outposts used for alliance staging will have only one or two doctrine ships stored for use, which means everyone is going to be extremely wary about undocking at all. There will be no more roaming for fun, and no more defense fleets. It will be stratops and stratops alone. I imagine the supply of ships in hisec will increase exponentially as a result, and we all know what happens to prices when there is too much supply.
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 181	Posted - 2015.07.20 16:57:59 - [35] - Quote Anthar Thebess wrote: It is not about using best stuff - nerfs to one hulls, changes and boost to other driven hull meta to much. We are constantly moving it higher and higher - this hurts new players the most, and put to big pressure on their wallets. T2 HAC and fitting close now around 260mil - when i started to play this game for 260mil i could die in 20 battle cruisers in the same price tag. When i tell this to new recruits i always hear "dam this game was fun then" This topic is to remind to CCP that eve is not about farming , but about flying , killing and dying when the odds are bad. Each time there is significant boost to not T1 hull , this game is becoming more and more expensive for new players. please check-out my killboard. given that im a relative newb, check my statistics and you'll see that, all i use are T1 frigates, destroyers and cruisers. so i don't know what you're talking about. Just Add Water
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 22494	Posted - 2015.07.20 17:19:28 - [36] - Quote CCP, I (request / DEMAND) that you regulate ((select all that apply) the player driven market, alliance ship/fitting doctrines, Ship Replacement Fund payouts, player state of mind, player expectations, player interactions, free will). Failure to do so will cause (me/my friends/new players/existing players) to (unsub/seriously consider playing less of) my (#) of accounts that I may or may not have paid (#) of (currency) for over (#) of (time measurement). *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Kimmi Chan Tastes Like Purple 1813	Posted - 2015.07.20 17:30:04 - [37] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: CCP, I (request / DEMAND) that you regulate ((select all that apply) the player driven market, alliance ship/fitting doctrines, Ship Replacement Fund payouts, player state of mind, player expectations, player interactions, free will). Failure to do so will cause (me/my friends/new players/existing players) to (unsub/seriously consider playing less of) my (#) of accounts that I may or may not have paid (#) of (currency) for over (#) of (time measurement). I also want cake and ice cream! "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game!
Baaldor Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Black Legion. 419	Posted - 2015.07.20 18:26:04 - [38] - Quote Anthar Thebess wrote: T1 cruisers are worthless , like faction ones. Lack of T2 resist makes them easy targets. Like stated before - if flying logistic ship was fun thing to do all people in fleet would fly only them. What?! I think you are mistaken sir.
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 22497	Posted - 2015.07.20 18:30:28 - [39] - Quote Kimmi Chan wrote: Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: CCP, I (request / DEMAND) that you regulate ((select all that apply) the player driven market, alliance ship/fitting doctrines, Ship Replacement Fund payouts, player state of mind, player expectations, player interactions, free will). Failure to do so will cause (me/my friends/new players/existing players) to (unsub/seriously consider playing less of) my (#) of accounts that I may or may not have paid (#) of (currency) for over (#) of (time measurement). I also want cake and ice cream! Now you're just being unreasonable. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Pax Deltari R3d Fire 24	Posted - 2015.07.20 18:55:04 - [40] - Quote I don't understand this thread. Gila's are great and only like 300-350mil with fittings. Anti Support cruisers like the caracal and vexor are like 50 mil to fit and destroy frigates in FW space. You don't need god skills to good with either. I mean if there is a problem it's people not knowing how to fit their ship or using trash battleclinic fits shiver Hell rail Thoraxes are pretty great right now as well especially if you have a buddy in a Maulus... Or a Griffin.. Seriously what's the problem here. If it's blobs -> Learn to fly kite ships. If it's certain ships are strong -> Don't engage those. If you're bad -> Get better scrub. Train Solo/Small Gang PvP to V Anthar Thebess wrote: I have no problem in making isk. Simply i state the obvious - there is to big gap between T1 Cruisers and T2/T3/Faction Battleships. They have good dps in some cases, but lack range , ehp and other stuff. T1 Cruisers are weaker than T2 Cruisers and T3 Cruisers and Faction battleships? No ****. They're meant to take out other T1 Cruisers and anything Frigate sized. If you see T2/T3 on the field just pop a few frigates and get out before you're caught. MWD + Nanofibers.
Jenshae Chiroptera 2030	Posted - 2015.07.20 19:42:38 - [41] - Quote Pax Deltari wrote: I don't understand this thread. .... You are not alone. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 22500	Posted - 2015.07.20 20:03:49 - [42] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Pax Deltari wrote: I don't understand this thread. .... You are not alone. Let me see if I can help you understand what is happening. It used to be that you could wear both a circlet and a hood (sometimes a falmer helmet) at the same time. It was a glitch that Bethesda knew about but just let stay. You could enchant both a circlet and a helmet with 'fortify alchemy' and wear both at the same time on top of an enchanted necklace, ring and gloves, giving you the ability to make crazy powerful potions. OP is mad that at some point, either Bethesda or the current keeper of the 'Unofficial' patch decided to fix this, and now its really hard for OP to create 101% Blacksmithing potions without the use of console commands meaning that he cant get his Daedric sword past 'Legendary' quality anymore. *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
0bama Barack Hussein Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 70	Posted - 2015.07.20 20:18:27 - [43] - Quote Pax Deltari wrote: If you're bad -> Get better scrub. Train Solo/Small Gang PvP to V This^ What will someday "kill" EvE. Because majority is just terribad, replacement numbers are not keeping up
flakeys Arkham Innovations 3086	Posted - 2015.07.20 20:46:57 - [44] - Quote Anthar Thebess wrote: Guide Dragon wrote: Anthar Thebess wrote: This is for CCP to decide, as we can only wish. My wish is , that when i find a new player i can tell him, train this ship , this will be 2 weeks - after this you can join most fleets and roams. It takes less than that for new players to train into a cheap t1 tackle frigate, which are great fun to fly and alot of corps will just hand these out for free. a t1 cruiser fit wouldn't take longer than 2 weeks either You know how long T1 frigate live on a battlefield, with all those T3 destroyers and interceptors on field? T1 cruiser? People are flying in T3 and T2 ships. Primary or/and kick from fleet. There are so , SO many newbro alliances these days like pandemic horde , BRAVE , karmafleet , RvB and then the whole ** of lowsec FW corps.It never has been much easier for newbro's to get into big fights using cheap ass ** then before and unlike in the old days many of them also have SRP. We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Deck Cadelanne 172	Posted - 2015.07.20 20:58:07 - [45] - Quote Anthar Thebess wrote: This is for CCP to decide, as we can only wish. My wish is , that when i find a new player i can tell him, train this ship , this will be 2 weeks - after this you can join most fleets and roams. Sorry but logistic ships don't count. If they where so fun to fly , we would have problem in finding DPS people. New people need to have fun, they need to learn a lot , but if we want to keep them in game they need FUN. So what you want is instant gratification. Level the playing field. Make it so somebody who has played for years, and trained for years, is at the same level as a new joiner two weeks in. *"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."* - Hunter S. Thompson
Baaldor Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society Black Legion. 419	Posted - 2015.07.20 21:20:32 - [46] - Quote Deck Cadelanne wrote: Anthar Thebess wrote: This is for CCP to decide, as we can only wish. My wish is , that when i find a new player i can tell him, train this ship , this will be 2 weeks - after this you can join most fleets and roams. Sorry but logistic ships don't count. If they where so fun to fly , we would have problem in finding DPS people. New people need to have fun, they need to learn a lot , but if we want to keep them in game they need FUN. So what you want is instant gratification. Level the playing field. Make it so somebody who has played for years, and trained for years, is at the same level as a new joiner two weeks in. Actually that is the trap, i mean you and I can only fit a certain amount of SP in a Cruiser or any other ship in the game. No matter if I have 160 mil sp or not, there is only so much of that 160 mil i can use. Where the difference comes into play, is the dude behind the key board.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 16730	Posted - 2015.07.20 21:31:30 - [47] - Quote Anthar Thebess wrote: This is for CCP to decide, as we can only wish. My wish is , that when i find a new player i can tell him, train this ship , this will be 2 weeks - after this you can join most fleets and roams. Sorry but logistic ships don't count. If they where so fun to fly , we would have problem in finding DPS people. New people need to have fun, they need to learn a lot , but if we want to keep them in game they need FUN. So... an Atron? Or a Griffin? Or a Merlin? Or a Condor? Or a Maulus? Or an Inquisitor? Add on a couple more weeks and talk about cruisers like the Caracal or the Arbitrator or the Vexor. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Cypherous Liberty Rogues Aprilon Dynasty 148	Posted - 2015.07.20 22:09:34 - [48] - Quote Anthar Thebess wrote: This is for CCP to decide, as we can only wish. My wish is , that when i find a new player i can tell him, train this ship , this will be 2 weeks - after this you can join most fleets and roams. Sorry but logistic ships don't count. If they where so fun to fly , we would have problem in finding DPS people. New people need to have fun, they need to learn a lot , but if we want to keep them in game they need FUN. A newbro need snothing more than a tackle frig to participate in most ops, just because you're expecting people to follow some specific doctrine fit doesn't mean something is wrong, i propose it is infact your expectations that are wrong, try thinking outside of the boring meta you seem to think exists :P I mean sure some of the NPSI fleets i've flown follow doctrines but a lot of them are just frigates and destroyers etc https://zkillboard.com/kill/47971031/ i point to the tech 1 tristan on that kill that got 4th highest damage, he isn't in anything expensive and is usefully participating in a null sec fleet, pretty sure a tristan is within 2 weeks of training unless something went seriously wrong :P
Kimmi Chan Tastes Like Purple 1817	Posted - 2015.07.20 23:09:48 - [49] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Pax Deltari wrote: I don't understand this thread. .... You are not alone. Let me see if I can help you understand what is happening. It used to be that you could wear both a circlet and a hood (sometimes a falmer helmet) at the same time. It was a glitch that Bethesda knew about but just let stay. You could enchant both a circlet and a helmet with 'fortify alchemy' and wear both at the same time on top of an enchanted necklace, ring and gloves, giving you the ability to make crazy powerful potions. OP is mad that at some point, either Bethesda or the current keeper of the 'Unofficial' patch decided to fix this, and now its really hard for OP to create 101% Blacksmithing potions without the use of console commands meaning that he cant get his Daedric sword past 'Legendary' quality anymore. You don't get you Steam achievements if you use the Cheat Mode. OP, I WIN buttons are the suck. "Grr Kimmi-á Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide www.eve-radio.com -áJoin Eve Radio channel in game!
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2015.07.20 23:33:08 - [50] - Quote Kimmi Chan wrote: Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Pax Deltari wrote: I don't understand this thread. .... You are not alone. Let me see if I can help you understand what is happening. It used to be that you could wear both a circlet and a hood (sometimes a falmer helmet) at the same time. It was a glitch that Bethesda knew about but just let stay. You could enchant both a circlet and a helmet with 'fortify alchemy' and wear both at the same time on top of an enchanted necklace, ring and gloves, giving you the ability to make crazy powerful potions. OP is mad that at some point, either Bethesda or the current keeper of the 'Unofficial' patch decided to fix this, and now its really hard for OP to create 101% Blacksmithing potions without the use of console commands meaning that he cant get his Daedric sword past 'Legendary' quality anymore. You don't get your Steam achievements if you use the Cheat Mode. OP, I WIN buttons are the suck. So what, achievements are one of the worst things that got added to games. A way of making content out of content that was already there. You can't have a I WIN button in a multi player game, in a solo game it doesn't really matter.
pushdogg Tell Your Mum To Call Me Get Off My Lawn 33	Posted - 2015.07.21 08:32:43 - [51] - Quote Op, I too am upset that it takes 3 days out of the month doing pve boringness to plex my account.....and pay for my PvP....in blingy ships. Well.....not that blingy......It may take 4 days for the real good stuff.
Lan Wang V I R I I Ineluctable. 1130	Posted - 2015.07.21 09:09:21 - [52] - Quote pushdogg wrote: Op, I too am upset that it takes 3 days out of the month doing pve boringness to plex my account.....and pay for my PvP....in blingy ships. Well.....not that blingy......It may take 4 days for the real good stuff. am i the only one who enjoys pve, i dont even do it for the isk :/ EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding \| Digital Design
Avaelica Kuershin Paper Cats 208	Posted - 2015.07.21 10:32:20 - [53] - Quote Lan Wang wrote: pushdogg wrote: Op, I too am upset that it takes 3 days out of the month doing pve boringness to plex my account.....and pay for my PvP....in blingy ships. Well.....not that blingy......It may take 4 days for the real good stuff. am i the only one who enjoys pve, i dont even do it for the isk :/ Depends on the PVE. Exploration and messing with the rats in anomalies I enjoy, but security missions.. meh. (I honestly prefer distribution missions for gaining standings, but only a few at a time.)
Barrogh Habalu Forever Winter Absolute Zero. 939	Posted - 2015.07.21 11:09:19 - [54] - Quote Avvy wrote: You can't have a I WIN button in a multi player game, in a solo game it doesn't really matter. 2~ndc Well, I guess you mean that then everyone have access to it... Malcanis wrote: Or an Inquisitor? Huh? Do people fly those? Lan Wang wrote: am i the only one who enjoys pve, i dont even do it for the isk :/ You just need to mix stuff up sometimes, then it's suddenly not that bad. I hate hisec hauling though Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Infrequent Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly. 93	Posted - 2015.07.21 11:48:45 - [55] - Quote Getting real tired of seeing these thinly veiled "Waah Eve isn't giving me enough instant gratification, waaahh EFFORT, waahh USE OF BRAIN". T1 hulls are still strong, and have been for some time, Provi, Brave, Horde and the swarms of other entities that field T1/faction fleets on a daily basis (while going up against more experienced fleets that have better composition) would like to have a word with your ignorant self. T1 frigs can't do anything when up against a full T3/T2 fleet in the middle of a fight? Might want to start taking a look at your pilots, what you're putting them against, or maybe at yourself for thinking that you can just throw paper at a brick wall and expect to see results. Even when I say that, T1 frigs are no joke, they are very capable of punching above weight in small groups and even solo. You're STILL crying about entry level for newer players, the entry level has never been lower! There has never been so many options for new players, lower SP/cheaper ships and fits have never been this strong! For crying out loud you can run 2 relic sites (sometimes even just 1) and come out with a T2 fit T1 cruiser. And don't even get me started about incursions, holy hell you drown in isk, the SP requirement is so low for what you go up against, how much isk you get compared to time and effort is ridiculous. A new player can focus his training into a standard low level incursion fit, proceed to drown in isk, all while having a starter set of skills trained up which directly carry over into pvp training, even while getting ample amounts of fleet experience which also carries over, you get your cake, you eat it, AND YOU GET SECONDS! Also, inflation is a thing, so comparing isk from your early days, to isk that changes hands these days, means literally nothing. There are so many ways to make piles of isk as a new player, it's hilarious, have you seen the threads of reddit about newbro explorers making 100mil+ in the space of 1-2 hours? Have you read the stories of newer players starting up station trading, dunking 1 plex into their capital and coming out of a weekend with billions? Isk requires effort, nothing should change about that, so stop trying to make it easier than it already is. Stop posting, for good. I don't even care if you didn't specifically say "we need more isk in less time" or "we need stronger entry level ships", because that seems to be one of the most common complaints coming from the same faces in General Discussion, from people like you.
Jenshae Chiroptera 2035	Posted - 2015.07.21 12:04:10 - [56] - Quote Infrequent wrote: ... T1 hulls are still strong, and have been for some time, Provi, ... and the swarms of other entities that field T1/faction fleets on a daily basis (while going up against more experienced fleets that have better composition) would like to have a word with your ignorant self. .... I am in Provi and those T1 frigate / destroyer fleets are only ever for fun roams and welp fleets. Cheap rather than effective. There is no denying that T1 frigates have less ships they can kill because of distribution and many more that can kill them. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids . High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
Tiddle Jr Galvanized Inc. 339	Posted - 2015.07.21 13:35:21 - [57] - Quote If I understand this thread correctly - the OP is talking about how to successfully manage constant pvp process for the newbro with being able to make the isk flow big enough to cover possible losses. But I don't see much of the problems here.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 3115	Posted - 2015.07.21 15:56:08 - [58] - Quote Anthar Thebess wrote: TL;DR - CCP don't boost way people can make isk but focus of reducing entry cost level for current doctrine meta - CCP EVE is not ISK/Plex per hour , but doctrine SHIPS per hour. - Bring back battle cruisers (hard , as they are to easy target for T3 destroyers, interceptors) - Older players can manage current ship cost , and have skills , but your actions lead that new players will not have any of it fast enough to enjoy this game Exactly how do you anticipate doing this? Lets focus reducing the cost of the doctrine ships. How do you see this being accomplished? Second of all I don't think T3 cruisers have gone through tiericide yet. Perhaps you might want to wait for that. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen Origin. Black Legion. 2383	Posted - 2015.07.21 16:20:45 - [59] - Quote The sum of what the OP is raising as an issue is valid. Something CCP needs to look at, is how Elite:Dangerous both incentivizes combat while softening the blow of ship losses, with better ship replacement insurance. We as a community regularly denounce 'risk aversion', and new players struggle with ship replacement costs, while we ignore the elephant in the room -- a failed ship insurance model. We can do better. F Would you like to know more?
Infrequent Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly. 94	Posted - 2015.07.21 16:45:55 - [60] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: I am in Provi and those T1 frigate / destroyer fleets are only ever for fun roams and welp fleets. Cheap rather than effective. T1 hulls across the board, not just frigs/dessies, t1 frigs/dessies being used more for fun roams and welp fleets is not a problem at all, and it should stay that way (despite the fact that t1 frig/dessie comps have seen use in higher level pvp on numerous occasions). So really, I don't see the problem there, unless i'm missing something here, because t1 dumpstertier compositions should never be able to take on a solid T3 fleet or T2 with proper composition, nor should they be given a helping hand in doing so. Same applies to small scale pvp. Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: There is no denying that T1 frigates have less ships they can kill because of distribution and many more that can kill them. Once again I don't see the problem there. Are people trying to imply that the bar of entry needs to be set even lower, and that newbros need yet more potential income to fund their pvp? Because really, if a newbro is having a hard time finding a place, or the isk, then it's down to us to guide them or they'll just have to teach theirselves. I don't think i'm properly grasping the point of this thread, as it seems to be yet another rant thread by one of the usual suspects of 'quality posting'.

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