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Akballah Kassan
Zeura Brotherhood Mordus Angels
3
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Posted - 2015.07.20 17:13:03 -
[1] - Quote
Simples -
For each T1 Capital Jump Range Extender Rig = +1 AU.
For each T2 Capital Jump Range Extender Rig = +2 AU
This would enable people to have extended range jump capability on Capital Ships but at the expense of losing the use of more combat or defence orientated rigs. They could just permanently 'travel fit' a carrier if they mainly use it for logistics.
Of course rich capsuleers could use range extender rigs until they get to their destination (to avoid potential gank bottlenecks like Aridia) then scrap the rigs and fit others upon arrival, but if the rigs are expensive enough they wouldn't do it on a regular basis.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1347
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Posted - 2015.07.20 17:27:24 -
[2] - Quote
No. Eve is currently working as intended.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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davet517
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
107
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Posted - 2015.07.20 17:54:14 -
[3] - Quote
Nah. The entities that have big super-cap fleets can afford to replace those erryday. They'd just re-rig when they got where they're going. |
Iain Cariaba
1695
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Posted - 2015.07.20 17:57:49 -
[4] - Quote
Let me be the second to say this is jump nerfs working as intended.
Let me be the first to say reported for redundancy.
And let me point out your distance measurement should be LY, not AU. There are roughly 63,240 AU in a LY, so your 2 AU increase would be a pittance.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Will troll for a t-shirt.
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Samillian
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
894
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Posted - 2015.07.20 18:31:48 -
[5] - Quote
The jump range changes are working very satisfactory and any inconvenience is more than compensated for the freedom to use caps without half of EvE dropping on you from the other side of the map.
Something like the OPs proposal would probably just be used as a wedge to leverage more changes and extensions to jump range putting us back where we started.
Not supported.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1686
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Posted - 2015.07.20 18:37:03 -
[6] - Quote
I'm normally the first to agree with everyone but the OP, but today I learned that people are self destructing capitals rather than moving them - then rebuying at destination, because that's less hassle than moving them.
Not to say I agree with OP or it is the way but....given the above, I feel like something is off the mark somewhere. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2967
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Posted - 2015.07.20 20:36:40 -
[7] - Quote
afkalt wrote:I'm normally the first to agree with everyone but the OP, but today I learned that people are self destructing capitals rather than moving them - then rebuying at destination, because that's less hassle than moving them. Not to say I agree with OP or it is the way but....given the above, I feel like something is off the mark somewhere. It means that there are too many capitals in the game and they are able to be made for cheap. Solution, make caps cost more.
Roleplaying Trinkets for Explorers and Collectors
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Atomeon
The Scope Gallente Federation
44
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Posted - 2015.07.20 22:06:59 -
[8] - Quote
Akballah Kassan wrote:Simples -
For each T1 Capital Jump Range Extender Rig = +1 AU.
For each T2 Capital Jump Range Extender Rig = +2 AU
Knowing CCP
T1 300 calibration T2 400 calibration
Now you have crippled your ship, good luck |
Thron Legacy
White Zulu Scorpion Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.07.21 00:25:38 -
[9] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:afkalt wrote:I'm normally the first to agree with everyone but the OP, but today I learned that people are self destructing capitals rather than moving them - then rebuying at destination, because that's less hassle than moving them. Not to say I agree with OP or it is the way but....given the above, I feel like something is off the mark somewhere. It means that there are too many capitals in the game and they are able to be made for cheap. Solution, make caps cost more.
just making them more expensive wont work, small gangs would suffer really bad. we need other forms of limitation and control |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2286
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Posted - 2015.07.21 01:27:51 -
[10] - Quote
afkalt wrote:I'm normally the first to agree with everyone but the OP, but today I learned that people are self destructing capitals rather than moving them - then rebuying at destination, because that's less hassle than moving them. Not to say I agree with OP or it is the way but....given the above, I feel like something is off the mark somewhere. Excellent, less capitals in the game. If people are that rich let them blow capitals up. |
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Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
496
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Posted - 2015.07.21 01:57:03 -
[11] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:afkalt wrote:I'm normally the first to agree with everyone but the OP, but today I learned that people are self destructing capitals rather than moving them - then rebuying at destination, because that's less hassle than moving them. Not to say I agree with OP or it is the way but....given the above, I feel like something is off the mark somewhere. It means that there are too many capitals in the game and they are able to be made for cheap. Solution, make caps cost more.
I would disagree with this assessment. Rather, it means people value time, and the ability to actually still use capital pilots after relocating, more than a few hundred million ISK. Capital pilots are still a huge time/money/sp investment as well, you sorta want to get your money's worth, and you definitely can't if you are always jump fatigued.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1352
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Posted - 2015.07.21 03:48:50 -
[12] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:
And let me point out your distance measurement should be LY, not AU. There are roughly 63,240 AU in a LY, so your 2 AU increase would be a pittance.
I am just embarrassed that I missed that he put it in AU.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1532
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Posted - 2015.07.21 06:49:08 -
[13] - Quote
Akballah Kassan wrote:Simples -
For each T1 Capital Jump Range Extender Rig = +1 AU.
For each T2 Capital Jump Range Extender Rig = +2 AU
This would enable people to have extended range jump capability on Capital Ships but at the expense of losing the use of more combat or defence orientated rigs. They could just permanently 'travel fit' a carrier if they mainly use it for logistics.
Of course rich capsuleers could use range extender rigs until they get to their destination (to avoid potential gank bottlenecks like Aridia) then scrap the rigs and fit others upon arrival, but if the rigs are expensive enough they wouldn't do it on a regular basis.
I like the idea of killing a titan who is fitted with 3x +2 AU rigs instead of 3x core defense extenders or 3x armor trimark.
+6 AU sounds really well balanced. It has not to be included in the calculation, because you won`t see any effect.... +6 AU hrhrhrhr
If it should be +6 AU... great idea... jump range is 3.5 to 5.0... totally well balanced, if we increase it by up to +150 % ....
Very bad idea. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1686
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Posted - 2015.07.21 07:52:43 -
[14] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:afkalt wrote:I'm normally the first to agree with everyone but the OP, but today I learned that people are self destructing capitals rather than moving them - then rebuying at destination, because that's less hassle than moving them. Not to say I agree with OP or it is the way but....given the above, I feel like something is off the mark somewhere. It means that there are too many capitals in the game and they are able to be made for cheap. Solution, make caps cost more. I would disagree with this assessment. Rather, it means people value time, and the ability to actually still use capital pilots after relocating, more than a few hundred million ISK. Capital pilots are still a huge time/money/sp investment as well, you sorta want to get your money's worth, and you definitely can't if you are always jump fatigued.
No matter where peoples opinions lay, I don't think anyone could say that the intent was for this to be how moves are handled by people.
Nevyn Auscent wrote:afkalt wrote:I'm normally the first to agree with everyone but the OP, but today I learned that people are self destructing capitals rather than moving them - then rebuying at destination, because that's less hassle than moving them. Not to say I agree with OP or it is the way but....given the above, I feel like something is off the mark somewhere. Excellent, less capitals in the game. If people are that rich let them blow capitals up.
It's not that expensive after insurance, what, couple of hundred million?
The thing is, if this becomes common (and it will), all it is doing is denying content to everyone. Except maybe the manufacturers.
I was a huge advocate of the changes, I still am. This does make me question myself slightly though, is this really what was intended?
I don't know, this just feels wrong. |
FireFrenzy
SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart.
538
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Posted - 2015.07.21 08:51:34 -
[15] - Quote
*cough*WORKING AS INTENDED*COUGHT* |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1686
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Posted - 2015.07.21 09:55:55 -
[16] - Quote
Oh probably, but it is still pretty shocking to me that this is actually happening.
Collateral damage/"emergent gameplay" I guess. Or rather emergent non-gameplay . |
Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
939
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Posted - 2015.07.21 11:17:02 -
[17] - Quote
To be honest, "sell there, buy here" was often the answer to problem of moving caps. The fact that people prefer to insurance fraud them now is somewhat worrisome because that means people don't even buy them even at (supposedly) firesale prices. Well, not that we didn't see this coming.
Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1169
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Posted - 2015.07.21 11:22:32 -
[18] - Quote
Yeah it's not like we nerffed range for a reason
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1686
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Posted - 2015.07.21 11:49:34 -
[19] - Quote
Yup and it can't just be altered without screwing with the fatigue numbers along side it because of how it is calculated.
I'd not be adverse to some manner of range increase at the cost of hideous fatigue to facilitate genuine movement/relocation purposes...but...is it worth the effort/hassle....? They have bigger fish to fry methinks. So the current fatigue on a 2x5LY hop without waiting beyond the mandatory is 1908 minutes (roughly 32 hours), if that was more like triple for a single jump (for example) taking it to a roughly 96 hour fatigue for a single 10LY jump - it could work out ok,you'd hit the cap real sharpish, so it wouldn't present a viable projection option. Numbers would have to be tuned, as stated it cannot just use the current formula.
But like I say, worth the effort, at this stage....? Nope, not really. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1170
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Posted - 2015.07.21 11:53:55 -
[20] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Yup and it can't just be altered without screwing with the fatigue numbers along side it because of how it is calculated.
I'd not be adverse to some manner of range increase at the cost of hideous fatigue to facilitate genuine movement/relocation purposes...but...is it worth the effort/hassle....? They have bigger fish to fry methinks. So the current fatigue on a 2x5LY hop without waiting beyond the mandatory is 1908 minutes (roughly 32 hours), if that was more like triple for a single jump (for example) taking it to a roughly 96 hour fatigue for a single 10LY jump - it could work out ok,you'd hit the cap real sharpish, so it wouldn't present a viable projection option. Numbers would have to be tuned, as stated it cannot just use the current formula.
But like I say, worth the effort, at this stage....? Nope, not really.
Not to mention if the rigs added fatigue how would this work on brides since the bridge ships would not have that penalty giving titans and blops no draw back
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1687
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Posted - 2015.07.21 12:07:24 -
[21] - Quote
Indeed. I don't think rigs are the way and I've pulled it mildly off topic, apologies OP. Mind you, your idea was going nowhere sooooo
I suppose I feel like people legitimately rehoming themselves could stand to have an option at a significant time (i.e. not isk, so fatigue/jump cooldown) cost - who cares if you can't jump for a week after a significant corp relocation.
One for the list, but it's not really high up there. Last thing you want is every idiot dropping supers on cruisers again. |
Leto Aramaus
Spiritus Draconis Spaceship Bebop
192
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Posted - 2015.07.21 12:12:21 -
[22] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:afkalt wrote:I'm normally the first to agree with everyone but the OP, but today I learned that people are self destructing capitals rather than moving them - then rebuying at destination, because that's less hassle than moving them. Not to say I agree with OP or it is the way but....given the above, I feel like something is off the mark somewhere. It means that there are too many capitals in the game and they are able to be made for cheap. Solution, make caps cost more.
100% this.
Two things should be done IMO.
1. Either vastly increase capital ship prices or (I don't think anyone wants this) vastly reduce ISK incomes across the galaxy so that 2-3B for a Dread is no longer "chump change" to anyone.
and
2. Remove insurance from capital ships to prevent players self-destructing without a full hit to the wallet.
EZ
The UI update we deserve
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Ben Ishikela
51
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Posted - 2015.07.21 12:17:12 -
[23] - Quote
Obviously Capitals can be rerigged. It costs a lot, or not so much if you have it. So to have something like jumprange rigs in the game, say if jumprange wouldnt be totaly overpowered, they would need a disincentive to balance it out. Combat stat mali would not help. (see rerigging) So what would? Spontaneously i think of something like an increase in Jumpfatigue by 100%. or +LY^2 squared --- In the end i say no. Jumprange is fine imho.
Add new modules or ships that can use tactics and strategies to shake any op meta or use totaly different gameplay yourself to make it happen! yay :)
....und Local braucht ganz dringend ein Update!
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1170
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Posted - 2015.07.21 13:08:44 -
[24] - Quote
Leto Aramaus wrote:
vastly reduce ISK incomes across the galaxy so that 2-3B for a Dread is no longer "chump change" to anyone.
you understand this will not make it harder to buy a cap right?
all it would do is increase the value of the isk while keeping the amount of work it takes to build the dread the same
so yes 2-3b would become harder to get but dreads would no longer be 2-3b
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1170
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Posted - 2015.07.21 13:09:59 -
[25] - Quote
Ben Ishikela wrote:Obviously Capitals can be rerigged. It costs a lot, or not so much if you have it. So to have something like jumprange rigs in the game, say if jumprange wouldnt be totaly overpowered, they would need a disincentive to balance it out. Combat stat mali would not help. (see rerigging) So what would? Spontaneously i think of something like an increase in Jumpfatigue by 100%. or +LY^2 squared --- In the end i say no. Jumprange is fine imho.
this was already pointed out as an option and it doesn't stop the rigs from being abused on bridge ships
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1690
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Posted - 2015.07.21 13:21:43 -
[26] - Quote
The only possibility would be a module which is cap sized, active and has a cooldown like the MJD (but obviously longer, the mechanic is what I'm illustrating here) so it cannot be removed whilst it was cooling down. When fitted set max locked targets to 0, bandwidth to 0, add 200% to fatigue per jump etc etc.
But again....time and effort for what amounts to a niche reason. Whilst the existing mechanic of insure>boomboom isn't ideal in my mind, it's not a hideous workaround I suppose. Unless this is the kind of thing they could land in one day and get the numbers right out the gate. |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
496
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Posted - 2015.07.21 15:32:17 -
[27] - Quote
afkalt wrote:One for the list, but it's not really high up there. Last thing you want is every idiot dropping supers on cruisers again.
You do realize that the very nature of the phoebe changes actually encourages this behavior, right?
It's impossible to punish local use of caps in many areas. Literally went from no where is safe for capitals, to having dead zones where it's constantly hotdrop o clock with no end in sight.
I totally agree with the phoebe changes, but it may be about time they tweak some of the numbers - surely there has to be a better medium than caps either being globally present everywhere, or just constrained to a tiny local area.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1354
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Posted - 2015.07.21 17:09:15 -
[28] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:afkalt wrote:One for the list, but it's not really high up there. Last thing you want is every idiot dropping supers on cruisers again. You do realize that the very nature of the phoebe changes actually encourages this behavior, right? It's impossible to punish local use of caps in many areas. Literally went from no where is safe for capitals, to having dead zones where it's constantly hotdrop o clock with no end in sight. I totally agree with the phoebe changes, but it may be about time they tweak some of the numbers - surely there has to be a better medium than caps either being globally present everywhere, or just constrained to a tiny local area.
It sounds to me like an incentive to have more capital killing fleets ready to get out there. They just cannot come from the far side of the universe as easily.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Akballah Kassan
Zeura Brotherhood Mordus Angels
5
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Posted - 2015.07.22 00:29:34 -
[29] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote: I totally agree with the phoebe changes, but it may be about time they tweak some of the numbers - surely there has to be a better medium than caps either being globally present everywhere, or just constrained to a tiny local area.
This is how I feel and the reason I think we need something that can increase jump range. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1172
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Posted - 2015.07.22 01:04:32 -
[30] - Quote
Akballah Kassan wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote: I totally agree with the phoebe changes, but it may be about time they tweak some of the numbers - surely there has to be a better medium than caps either being globally present everywhere, or just constrained to a tiny local area.
This is how I feel and the reason I think we need something that can increase jump range.
except the entire point was to make them restricted to a tiny local area....
and that is working well
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1356
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Posted - 2015.07.22 04:00:43 -
[31] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Akballah Kassan wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote: I totally agree with the phoebe changes, but it may be about time they tweak some of the numbers - surely there has to be a better medium than caps either being globally present everywhere, or just constrained to a tiny local area.
This is how I feel and the reason I think we need something that can increase jump range. except the entire point was to make them restricted to a tiny local area.... and that is working well
One of the things that CCP apparently loves about Phoebe is that capital ships are seeing a lot more use than they were pre-Phoebe. This is definitely a good thing from my perspective.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1174
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Posted - 2015.07.22 04:10:53 -
[32] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:
One of the things that CCP apparently loves about Phoebe is that capital ships are seeing a lot more use than they were pre-Phoebe. This is definitely a good thing from my perspective.
and not only are more being used but more groups are now using them. Groups that used to be to small justify using them
are there inconveniences that have come with the changes? yes
however the miner inconveniences are vastly outweighed by what it has brought to the game
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
298
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Posted - 2015.07.22 05:08:20 -
[33] - Quote
You seem unable to see the writing on the wall here, nullsec is being changed. Nullsec will change tactics and all will be good, be patient.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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