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Flamespar
Woof Club
123
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Posted - 2011.12.19 03:26:00 -
[31] - Quote
In another thread a Dev mentioned that CCP was interested in our suggestions on what gameplay should happen in Incarna. Aside from the features and ideas section of the forum (and who knows what does and doesn't get read in there), I'm wondering how we can make the process more participatory for both sides.
Maybe do some crowd sourcing for gameplay features? Or a survey as part of the next EVE newsletter to all players asking them to rate various potential gameplay items for WiS?
I would like to make this suggestion part of my request to CCP and CSM
At least this way, CCP can demonstrate player support for the features they include in stations. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
262
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Posted - 2011.12.19 13:59:00 -
[32] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Flamespar wrote:Velicitia wrote:[quote=Flamespar] come back in 18 months. Thank you, have a nice day. I'm going to go ahead and assume that since you have nothing better to do than come here with your dumb remark, that you have run out of things to do in EVE, therefore some sort of expansion, perhaps involving walking in stations might help alleviate your boredom. Your welcome OK, I get it, you want to see more about WiS. You want to sit and spend 2 hours per day doing things that has no meaning (within the confines of the game world).
I stopped reading your drivel right there. This is just more elitist garbage spewing forth from a hole that doesn't have a brain behind it to regulate the flow. Just because YOU don't see the value in WiS doesn't mean nobody else does. You are probably one of the 95% of nullsec players that PvP solely to PvP. You don't take systems, you don't reinforce stations...you just PvP. It's pointless.
See what I did there?
Fact is CCP had plans for WiS to make it more than just walking around. Most of you don't know this because you were either too busy crying like little babies to read the information or you are just too blind and stupid to pay attention. Now WiS is on the backburner because of the sheer number of idiots that play this game and don't like the way everybody else plays it.
As for the thread subject...it is likely that we will have to wait until the fanfest to hear any more new news or an update on WiS. I would also like to point out that you are requesting an update from CCP Devs in Assembly Hall. They likely will not post in here as they have made it a point not to do so at all. This is a forum for the CSM. The only CSM I would half expect to reply in this thread with any information of value is Trebor. Support our boobies!-áLINKY! |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
5
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Posted - 2011.12.19 14:41:00 -
[33] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Velicitia wrote:Flamespar wrote:Velicitia wrote:[quote=Flamespar] come back in 18 months. Thank you, have a nice day. I'm going to go ahead and assume that since you have nothing better to do than come here with your dumb remark, that you have run out of things to do in EVE, therefore some sort of expansion, perhaps involving walking in stations might help alleviate your boredom. Your welcome OK, I get it, you want to see more about WiS. You want to sit and spend 2 hours per day doing things that has no meaning (within the confines of the game world). I stopped reading your drivel right there. This is just more elitist garbage spewing forth from a hole that doesn't have a brain behind it to regulate the flow. Just because YOU don't see the value in WiS doesn't mean nobody else does. You are probably one of the 95% of nullsec players that PvP solely to PvP. You don't take systems, you don't reinforce stations...you just PvP. It's pointless. See what I did there? Fact is CCP had plans for WiS to make it more than just walking around. Most of you don't know this because you were either too busy crying like little babies to read the information or you are just too blind and stupid to pay attention. Now WiS is on the backburner because of the sheer number of idiots that play this game and don't like the way everybody else plays it. As for the thread subject...it is likely that we will have to wait until the fanfest to hear any more new news or an update on WiS. I would also like to point out that you are requesting an update from CCP Devs in Assembly Hall. They likely will not post in here as they have made it a point not to do so at all. This is a forum for the CSM. The only CSM I would half expect to reply in this thread with any information of value is Trebor.
My guess is that this thread exists because CCP is ignoring the 56 days old, 1,478 messages long, thread at General Discussion.
Bear in mind that so far the only we've got from the CSM is The Mittani's hunch that the NEx store has been abandoned and nobody wants to think of it. |
oldbutfeelingyoung
VIRTUAL EMPIRE VANGUARD Vanguard Ascendants
39
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Posted - 2011.12.19 18:02:00 -
[34] - Quote
CCP only respond on happy post these days and even locks 1 or 2 with normal discussion where they think its an attack on CCP.
Don,t expect a response on this one also. It only shows the respect CCP has for its customers (when they RABBLE right ccp?) We know from the past that this is the case
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Flamespar
Woof Club
124
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Posted - 2011.12.19 22:35:00 -
[35] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: As for the thread subject...it is likely that we will have to wait until the fanfest to hear any more new news or an update on WiS. I would also like to point out that you are requesting an update from CCP Devs in Assembly Hall. They likely will not post in here as they have made it a point not to do so at all. This is a forum for the CSM. The only CSM I would half expect to reply in this thread with any information of value is Trebor.
No, this thread was a request for the CSM to request an update from CCP. Essentially I'm trying to use the formal process of the CSM to get the clarification we would like.
Let's see if the wonderful process that is the CSM will work.
Personally, I think the request is reasonable. We're not asking for a particular feature to happen immediately, we're not trying to force largescale changes across EVE. All we are wanting is for CCP (via the CSM) to talk to us, and respond to our concerns.
*crickets* I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
98
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 23:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:...Hilmar said in his letter to the players that Incarna was an essential part of the future of EVE, then in a later interview said that GÇ£Incarna was on ice, and that we may get back to itGÇ¥.
This has created confusion....
Why are you confused? The language is fairly plain.
Are you looking for something like:
"We will not work on incarna until 2:30 pm December 17th 2012. At that time 3 developers will start working on the platinum skirts and put out new skirts that are biege."
Seriously the company has just redirected resources. If focusing on fis stops the subs from bleeding and even starts to turn things around I'm sure they will continue in that direction.
I think CCP will continue to do some things for incarna but it is not going to be all we hear about anymore. Those days are hopefully in the past. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
80
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Posted - 2011.12.19 23:47:00 -
[37] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:In another thread a Dev mentioned that CCP was interested in our suggestions on what gameplay should happen in Incarna. Aside from the features and ideas section of the forum (and who knows what does and doesn't get read in there), I'm wondering how we can make the process more participatory for both sides.
Maybe do some crowd sourcing for gameplay features? Or a survey as part of the next EVE newsletter to all players asking them to rate various potential gameplay items for WiS?
I would like to make this suggestion part of my request to CCP and CSM
At least this way, CCP can demonstrate player support for the features they include in stations.
Agreed. CCP should have told us their plans for incarna in the first place and the outrage about the nex store wouldn't have happened.
CCP seem to have a real problem considering the implications of the changes they make to the game. Look at customs offices... The community designed half the features for the new POCO system.
In fact, most of the stuff in Crucible was thought up by the players... Looks like you have a pretty good deal here CCP. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
124
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Posted - 2011.12.20 04:10:00 -
[38] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote: Agreed. CCP should have told us their plans for incarna in the first place and the outrage about the nex store wouldn't have happened.
CCP seem to have a real problem considering the implications of the changes they make to the game. Look at customs offices... The community designed half the features for the new POCO system.
In fact, most of the stuff in Crucible was thought up by the players... Looks like you have a pretty good deal here CCP.
I think part of the problem is that CCP did discuss their plans for Incarna. They demonstrated a working multiplayer environment. They talked about the wonderful tech underlying it. They talked about how boosters would be traded in bars, how players could rent out shops.
And then we got a single room. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Rina Asanari
State War Academy Caldari State
28
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Posted - 2011.12.20 07:51:00 -
[39] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:I think part of the problem is that CCP did discuss their plans for Incarna. They demonstrated a working multiplayer environment. They talked about the wonderful tech underlying it. They talked about how boosters would be traded in bars, how players could rent out shops.
And then we got a single room.
Smokes and mirrors, marketspeak, demomode. Please don't tell me you believed that manure they shoveled around, especially when 'walking in stations' was a buzzword even years ago.
You may be missing the point that we got a single room and the NeX store, and I think without the NeX store we wouldn't have CQ either. And I presume I don't need to explain what the motives behind the NeX store were. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
124
|
Posted - 2011.12.20 09:39:00 -
[40] - Quote
The point of this thread is to ask the CSM to request CCP as to the future of incarna.
I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
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Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
1147
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Posted - 2011.12.20 13:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:The only CSM I would half expect to reply in this thread with any information of value is Trebor. CCP's exact prioritization for the next couple of expansions is still up in the air, but it will focus heavily on FiS work. There may be some more information in the Summit minutes about manpower allocations, but I can't go into more details at present.
CSM - because I have not yet plumbed the depths of my inherent masochism! CSM 6 Activities Summary | My CSM blog |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
265
|
Posted - 2011.12.20 14:11:00 -
[42] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:The only CSM I would half expect to reply in this thread with any information of value is Trebor. CCP's exact prioritization for the next couple of expansions is still up in the air, but it will focus heavily on FiS work. There may be some more information in the Summit minutes about manpower allocations, but I can't go into more details at present.
Called it!
Thanks Trebor. I think frankly most of us want to see work continue and focus on FiS but we also want to see the completion of WiS. Frankly I could care less how CCP allocates manpower...that is their business not the players. So long as they get the work done efficiently and correctly with fewer bugs and less delay.
Lets wait for the summit minutes and go from there. I honestly think we won't see any real information on WiS until Fanfest though. If we get some new info from the summit that will be nice. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX!
Support our boobies!-á[url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=24221&find=unread[/url]
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
6
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Posted - 2011.12.20 14:38:00 -
[43] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:The only CSM I would half expect to reply in this thread with any information of value is Trebor. CCP's exact prioritization for the next couple of expansions is still up in the air, but it will focus heavily on FiS work. There may be some more information in the Summit minutes about manpower allocations, but I can't go into more details at present.
Because, just going to the effing WiS thread and say "we're still thinking about it, bear with us" would be SO difficult... |
oldbutfeelingyoung
VIRTUAL EMPIRE VANGUARD Vanguard Ascendants
39
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Posted - 2011.12.20 16:57:00 -
[44] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:The only CSM I would half expect to reply in this thread with any information of value is Trebor. CCP's exact prioritization for the next couple of expansions is still up in the air, but it will focus heavily on FiS work. There may be some more information in the Summit minutes about manpower allocations, but I can't go into more details at present. Called it! Thanks Trebor. I think frankly most of us want to see work continue and focus on FiS but we also want to see the completion of WiS. Frankly I could care less how CCP allocates manpower...that is their business not the players. So long as they get the work done efficiently and correctly with fewer bugs and less delay. Lets wait for the summit minutes and go from there. I honestly think we won't see any real information on WiS until Fanfest though. If we get some new info from the summit that will be nice.
thanks for the response but still can,t understand why they keep quit ,even after more and more people are asking for info we are not demanding anything or go to Jita to blast some statue (that,s for 0.0 alts ,who fly in systems with a too big alliance and are bored) ,at least not now j/k |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
98
|
Posted - 2011.12.20 17:03:00 -
[45] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:The only CSM I would half expect to reply in this thread with any information of value is Trebor. CCP's exact prioritization for the next couple of expansions is still up in the air, but it will focus heavily on FiS work. There may be some more information in the Summit minutes about manpower allocations, but I can't go into more details at present. Because, just going to the effing WiS thread and say "we're still thinking about it, bear with us" would be SO difficult...
What Trebor said should be obvious to anyone who has read the recent dev blogs and what ccp's ceo said.
How frequently do they need to repeat it? Every 2 months? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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oldbutfeelingyoung
VIRTUAL EMPIRE VANGUARD Vanguard Ascendants
39
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Posted - 2011.12.20 17:12:00 -
[46] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:The only CSM I would half expect to reply in this thread with any information of value is Trebor. CCP's exact prioritization for the next couple of expansions is still up in the air, but it will focus heavily on FiS work. There may be some more information in the Summit minutes about manpower allocations, but I can't go into more details at present. Because, just going to the effing WiS thread and say "we're still thinking about it, bear with us" would be SO difficult... What Trebor said should be obvious to anyone who has read the recent dev blogs and what ccp's ceo said. How frequently do they need to repeat it? Every 2 months?
nothing to repeat we know that FIS got priority now ,but a lot want WIS and are hoping its not on the shelves forever that's all we want to know ,everything they possibly could give on info about WIS
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Velicitia
Open Designs
224
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Posted - 2011.12.20 19:07:00 -
[47] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Cearain wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:The only CSM I would half expect to reply in this thread with any information of value is Trebor. CCP's exact prioritization for the next couple of expansions is still up in the air, but it will focus heavily on FiS work. There may be some more information in the Summit minutes about manpower allocations, but I can't go into more details at present. Because, just going to the effing WiS thread and say "we're still thinking about it, bear with us" would be SO difficult... What Trebor said should be obvious to anyone who has read the recent dev blogs and what ccp's ceo said. How frequently do they need to repeat it? Every 2 months? nothing to repeat we know that FIS got priority now ,but a lot want WIS and are hoping its not on the shelves forever that's all we want to know ,everything they possibly could give on info about WIS
they already gave all the info they have on WiS up to right now.
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oldbutfeelingyoung
VIRTUAL EMPIRE VANGUARD Vanguard Ascendants
39
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Posted - 2011.12.20 21:14:00 -
[48] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:
they already gave all the info they have on WiS up to right now.
Yes? ok tell me then ,were the TQ,s the only room s they were working on,was or had they more in the pipeline to finish What are their expectations regarding WIS,do they think they will be able to pick it from the selves again
again not demanding more WIS right now ,but want to know if there could be more later |
Flamespar
Woof Club
124
|
Posted - 2011.12.20 22:31:00 -
[49] - Quote
Thanks for your response Trebor.
I think the main thing that we would like communicated to CCP, is that there is indeed support for the original vision of WiS but that it should not be confused with support for the current state of Incarna. Nor are we asking that it take any particular priority (though similar to any feature in EVE we would like it to recieve serious developer time at some point).
I know that the summit has already occured, and that Incarna did not feature highly in those discussions. Personally I think it creates the impressions that CCP is abandoning the feature. I'm not sure why CCP won't clarify their plans for this feature over the next year.
Can you formally request that CCP respond to the issues raised in this thread and those in the 75 page thread in general discussion.
We've been playing the 'wait and see' game with Incarna for years, enough is enough already. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.20 22:56:00 -
[50] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:Thanks for your response Trebor.
I think the main thing that we would like communicated to CCP, is that there is indeed support for the original vision of WiS but that it should not be confused with support for the current state of Incarna. Nor are we asking that it take any particular priority (though similar to any feature in EVE we would like it to recieve serious developer time at some point).
I know that the summit has already occured, and that Incarna did not feature highly in those discussions. Personally I think it creates the impressions that CCP is abandoning the feature. I'm not sure why CCP won't clarify their plans for this feature over the next year.
Can you formally request that CCP respond to the issues raised in this thread and those in the 75 page thread in general discussion.
We've been playing the 'wait and see' game with Incarna for years, enough is enough already.
What drives me nuts is how this silence does nothing for CCP and is unnecessarily bothering people. I even pondered the chances of taking the matter to the press... |
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
147
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Posted - 2011.12.20 22:59:00 -
[51] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Velicitia wrote:they already gave all the info they have on WiS up to right now. Yes? ok tell me then ,were the TQ,s the only room s they were working on,was or had they more in the pipeline to finish What are their expectations regarding WIS,do they think they will be able to pick it from the selves again again not demanding more WIS right now ,but want to know if there could be more later Any previous plans for WiS will have been greatly hampered by the fact that Incarna showed the technology behind it to be a buggy, resource hogging, graphics card- frying piece of crap. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
266
|
Posted - 2011.12.21 01:42:00 -
[52] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Velicitia wrote:they already gave all the info they have on WiS up to right now. Yes? ok tell me then ,were the TQ,s the only room s they were working on,was or had they more in the pipeline to finish What are their expectations regarding WIS,do they think they will be able to pick it from the selves again again not demanding more WIS right now ,but want to know if there could be more later Any previous plans for WiS will have been greatly hampered by the fact that Incarna showed the technology behind it to be a buggy, resource hogging, graphics card- frying piece of crap.
lol...what a load of ****. I do suppose that something that looks as good as the Carbon Character Engine would run and feel like crap for someone who has a ****** system. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX!
Support our boobies!-á[url]https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=24221&find=unread[/url]
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
83
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Posted - 2011.12.21 13:59:00 -
[53] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote: CCP's exact prioritization for the next couple of expansions is still up in the air, but it will focus heavily on FiS work. There may be some more information in the Summit minutes about manpower allocations, but I can't go into more details at present.
So what? Can we expect some information as to the future of WIS from CCP or do you think it's acceptable that the walk in stations stuff that CCP promised to us and have been working on for years has now just been shelved?
It's blindingly obvious that a lot of people want to see more walk in stations content and the Incarna crap that we have now is not what we were promised/shown. I think it's about time the CSM do what they were elected and get us some solid information instead of ignoring a section of the community. |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
287
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Posted - 2011.12.21 14:07:00 -
[54] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: I even pondered the chances of taking the matter to the press...
lol |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
98
|
Posted - 2011.12.21 14:54:00 -
[55] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote: CCP's exact prioritization for the next couple of expansions is still up in the air, but it will focus heavily on FiS work. There may be some more information in the Summit minutes about manpower allocations, but I can't go into more details at present.
So what? Can we expect some information as to the future of WIS from CCP or do you think it's acceptable that the walk in stations stuff that CCP promised to us and have been working on for years has now just been shelved? It's blindingly obvious that a lot of people want to see more walk in stations content and the Incarna crap that we have now is not what we were promised/shown. I think it's about time the CSM do what they were elected and get us some solid information instead of ignoring a section of the community.
Please give the source of the promise. They did say they were working on it and they did work on it. The fact that with current hardware its impracticle to do what they want right now does not mean they broke a promise.
I don't think they are ignoring you. They did put out 2 or 3 dev blogs (1 on shaders and one on the new cqs and one on new clothes) about incarna in the last 3 months.
Really face it you are getting a decent amount of attention but you want more attention. You want them to return to the days when that is all they worked on. But that will kill their business. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
84
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Posted - 2011.12.21 16:05:00 -
[56] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote: CCP's exact prioritization for the next couple of expansions is still up in the air, but it will focus heavily on FiS work. There may be some more information in the Summit minutes about manpower allocations, but I can't go into more details at present.
So what? Can we expect some information as to the future of WIS from CCP or do you think it's acceptable that the walk in stations stuff that CCP promised to us and have been working on for years has now just been shelved? It's blindingly obvious that a lot of people want to see more walk in stations content and the Incarna crap that we have now is not what we were promised/shown. I think it's about time the CSM do what they were elected and get us some solid information instead of ignoring a section of the community. Please give the source of the promise. They did say they were working on it and they did work on it. The fact that with current hardware its impracticle to do what they want right now does not mean they broke a promise. I don't think they are ignoring you. They did put out 2 or 3 dev blogs (1 on shaders and one on the new cqs and one on new clothes) about incarna in the last 3 months. Really face it you are getting a decent amount of attention but you want more attention. You want them to return to the days when that is all they worked on. But that will kill their business.
Show me a devblog were CCP explain what happened to all the WIS content (gambling, public areas drug trading) has gone and why we have been left with this Incarna dress-up bullshit that nobody wanted or expected.
I don't know why you guys are supporting CCP so much. They have given you nothing for years because they claimed they were working on WIS and now WIS has been canned! Wake up, you've just been cheated of of you money.
I'm a new player and there is a bunch of stuff that i would like fixing in this game but i was willing to put up with it because i expected incarna to be worth the wait... Can't you see why i'd be angry? |
Flamespar
Woof Club
128
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Posted - 2011.12.21 23:24:00 -
[57] - Quote
Cearain wrote: Really face it you are getting a decent amount of attention but you want more attention. You want them to return to the days when that is all they worked on. But that will kill their business.
No-one is asking for this. No-one is asking for CCP to focus all of their attention on WiS. It is a cheap trick to suggest that we are. All we want is that CCP commit to actually giving it some attention and give us some direction as to when. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Sephiroth CloneIIV
Vitriol Ventures BLACK-MARK
33
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Posted - 2011.12.22 00:01:00 -
[58] - Quote
Things change over time.
I recall hilmar some months ago saying that he wants to come back to incarna, the 'real' incarna.
Current incarna is a small confined single player game, which goes against everything massive and multiplayer about eve.
Could always give a new statement from eve developers what the future is, not that its the post 'incarna' era with crucible.
Wonder if crucible is a reference to the rebellion of angry players, like a 'crucible'. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
229
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Posted - 2011.12.22 02:19:00 -
[59] - Quote
oldbutfeelingyoung wrote:Velicitia wrote:
they already gave all the info they have on WiS up to right now.
Yes? ok tell me then ,were the TQ,s the only room s they were working on,was or had they more in the pipeline to finish What are their expectations regarding WIS,do they think they will be able to pick it from the selves again again not demanding more WIS right now ,but want to know if there could be more later
no, they had/have other stuff. It wasn't all ready to get released with Incarna this summer (look at the SISI build and stuff, there are references to other places).
It's probably a good bet that the winter expansion was initially intended to bring these other venues to WiS -- and then the complete backlash from the community, the emergency CSM summit, and other internal discussion made CCP go "oh **** guys, we're not going to survive another expansion like this".
They came up with Crucible -- fix a lot of the "little" things, refocus on FiS, bring more ships (note, they may have been "in the works" anyway... and just put on a faster timetable). Seriously, it's an apology expansion ... the real test of their new direction will be the summer 2012 expansion.
They've pulled the majority of WiS and WoD and other non-Dust people back to focusing on FIS. WIS may have a token team (like FIS had for the last 2 years) so there will be little things that get done ... but they know they really have to work on the technology before they have a multi-toon environment (lest they melt people's rigs again). |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 07:58:00 -
[60] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: I even pondered the chances of taking the matter to the press... lol
Provided how i'm stuck with this account pre-paid until May, you bet I will keep hammering this nail until I get an answer. |
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