Incarna was an expansion. It came...that's that. What the question should be is...

What is the future of WiS?

Have no fear. I am sure that CCP is working very hard with the CSM to improve 0.0.

However you want to articulate the question is fine. The point is that we want clarification.

[quote=Flamespar]
come back in 18 months. Thank you, have a nice day.

I'm going to go ahead and assume that since you have nothing better to do than come here with your dumb remark, that you have run out of things to do in EVE, therefore some sort of expansion, perhaps involving walking in stations might help alleviate your boredom.

Your welcome

... what part of CCP's "yeah, we'll keep working on WiS but it's mainly backurnered" stance is hard to grasp?

After participating in another thread I see two broad options for WiS.

The first is that each expansion has a major focus on FiS and a minor focus on WiS. Much as Crucible had a lot of inspace stuff and a small update to Incarna in the form of the Captains quarters.

The second is an expansion (at some point) that delivers the full featured Incarna (multiplayer establishments et al) and then subsequent expansions that focus only on FiS

how are these contradictory approaches, pray tell?

As I've been saying throughout this thread

-- The next 18 months will most likely be FIS heavy with fixes to all the broken things being at the forefront (POS, FW, sov, lowsec, hisec, w-space, corp roles, etc). WIS stuff will be little and "extra" to the FIX content ... maybe a corporate/alliance office or something, slowly ramping up to the "full experience".

-- once everything is in a happy place, and they can "neglect" FIS for an expansion cycle, the full WIS thing will be unveiled. This patch will have so-so FIS stuff.

-- once WIS is fully rolled out, a balanced approach to the stuff (though, TBH, I don't see much more than performance tweaks or a handful of new NEX items ever really being added ... there's only so many iterations of "Mall Foodcourt" that can be done.)

Well, so far after 50 days, 70 pages and 1381 messages, CCP has said an done nothing.

Also, from what CSM say about the meeting, apparently they didn't even talked about WiS (anyway I am still waiting for Meissa Anunthiel to answer my mail on the issue...)

Yeah I am feeling the same really. Personally I don't understand the lack of response from CCP on Incarna (particulary given their active participation in other threads). It's really confusing as to why they won't give a decent response on the future of WiS.

I don't have any problem with Null sec getting some loving, as every area of EVE should get some Dev love, even those I don't personally participate in. But I don't want WiS to be abandoned.

I would also like CCP to clarify the status and future plans for WIS.

Yea, Establisments and stuff

While it's not exactly establishments on stations, I am working on an Assembly Hall version of PI 2.0, that will have establishments on planetary networks that players will be able to walk around in etc.

I hope to have it posted soon.

But station (and even super cap based) establishments would rock.

OK, I get it, you want to see more about WiS. You want to sit and spend 2 hours per day doing things that has no meaning (within the confines of the game world).

I stopped reading your drivel right there. This is just more elitist garbage spewing forth from a hole that doesn't have a brain behind it to regulate the flow. Just because YOU don't see the value in WiS doesn't mean nobody else does. You are probably one of the 95% of nullsec players that PvP solely to PvP. You don't take systems, you don't reinforce stations...you just PvP. It's pointless.

See what I did there?

Fact is CCP had plans for WiS to make it more than just walking around. Most of you don't know this because you were either too busy crying like little babies to read the information or you are just too blind and stupid to pay attention. Now WiS is on the backburner because of the sheer number of idiots that play this game and don't like the way everybody else plays it.

As for the thread subject...it is likely that we will have to wait until the fanfest to hear any more new news or an update on WiS. I would also like to point out that you are requesting an update from CCP Devs in Assembly Hall. They likely will not post in here as they have made it a point not to do so at all. This is a forum for the CSM. The only CSM I would half expect to reply in this thread with any information of value is Trebor.

As for the thread subject...it is likely that we will have to wait until the fanfest to hear any more new news or an update on WiS. I would also like to point out that you are requesting an update from CCP Devs in Assembly Hall. They likely will not post in here as they have made it a point not to do so at all. This is a forum for the CSM. The only CSM I would half expect to reply in this thread with any information of value is Trebor.

...Hilmar said in his letter to the players that Incarna was an essential part of the future of EVE, then in a later interview said that GÇ£Incarna was on ice, and that we may get back to itGÇ¥.

This has created confusion....

In another thread a Dev mentioned that CCP was interested in our suggestions on what gameplay should happen in Incarna. Aside from the features and ideas section of the forum (and who knows what does and doesn't get read in there), I'm wondering how we can make the process more participatory for both sides.

Maybe do some crowd sourcing for gameplay features? Or a survey as part of the next EVE newsletter to all players asking them to rate various potential gameplay items for WiS?

I would like to make this suggestion part of my request to CCP and CSM

At least this way, CCP can demonstrate player support for the features they include in stations.

Agreed. CCP should have told us their plans for incarna in the first place and the outrage about the nex store wouldn't have happened.

CCP seem to have a real problem considering the implications of the changes they make to the game. Look at customs offices... The community designed half the features for the new POCO system.

In fact, most of the stuff in Crucible was thought up by the players... Looks like you have a pretty good deal here CCP.

I think part of the problem is that CCP did discuss their plans for Incarna. They demonstrated a working multiplayer environment. They talked about the wonderful tech underlying it. They talked about how boosters would be traded in bars, how players could rent out shops.

And then we got a single room.

The only CSM I would half expect to reply in this thread with any information of value is Trebor.

CCP's exact prioritization for the next couple of expansions is still up in the air, but it will focus heavily on FiS work. There may be some more information in the Summit minutes about manpower allocations, but I can't go into more details at present.

CCP's exact prioritization for the next couple of expansions is still up in the air, but it will focus heavily on FiS work. There may be some more information in the Summit minutes about manpower allocations, but I can't go into more details at present.

Called it!

Thanks Trebor. I think frankly most of us want to see work continue and focus on FiS but we also want to see the completion of WiS. Frankly I could care less how CCP allocates manpower...that is their business not the players. So long as they get the work done efficiently and correctly with fewer bugs and less delay.

Lets wait for the summit minutes and go from there. I honestly think we won't see any real information on WiS until Fanfest though. If we get some new info from the summit that will be nice.

Because, just going to the effing WiS thread and say "we're still thinking about it, bear with us" would be SO difficult...

What Trebor said should be obvious to anyone who has read the recent dev blogs and what ccp's ceo said.


How frequently do they need to repeat it? Every 2 months?

nothing to repeat we know that FIS got priority now ,but a lot want WIS and are hoping its not on the shelves forever
that's all we want to know ,everything they possibly could give on info about WIS

they already gave all the info they have on WiS up to right now.

Thanks for your response Trebor.

I think the main thing that we would like communicated to CCP, is that there is indeed support for the original vision of WiS but that it should not be confused with support for the current state of Incarna. Nor are we asking that it take any particular priority (though similar to any feature in EVE we would like it to recieve serious developer time at some point).

I know that the summit has already occured, and that Incarna did not feature highly in those discussions. Personally I think it creates the impressions that CCP is abandoning the feature. I'm not sure why CCP won't clarify their plans for this feature over the next year.

Can you formally request that CCP respond to the issues raised in this thread and those in the 75 page thread in general discussion.

We've been playing the 'wait and see' game with Incarna for years, enough is enough already.

Yes? ok tell me then ,were the TQ,s the only room s they were working on,was or had they more in the pipeline to finish
What are their expectations regarding WIS,do they think they will be able to pick it from the selves again

again not demanding more WIS right now ,but want to know if there could be more later

Any previous plans for WiS will have been greatly hampered by the fact that Incarna showed the technology behind it to be a buggy, resource hogging, graphics card- frying piece of crap.

CCP's exact prioritization for the next couple of expansions is still up in the air, but it will focus heavily on FiS work. There may be some more information in the Summit minutes about manpower allocations, but I can't go into more details at present.

I even pondered the chances of taking the matter to the press...

So what? Can we expect some information as to the future of WIS from CCP or do you think it's acceptable that the walk in stations stuff that CCP promised to us and have been working on for years has now just been shelved?

It's blindingly obvious that a lot of people want to see more walk in stations content and the Incarna crap that we have now is not what we were promised/shown. I think it's about time the CSM do what they were elected and get us some solid information instead of ignoring a section of the community.

Please give the source of the promise. They did say they were working on it and they did work on it. The fact that with current hardware its impracticle to do what they want right now does not mean they broke a promise.

I don't think they are ignoring you. They did put out 2 or 3 dev blogs (1 on shaders and one on the new cqs and one on new clothes) about incarna in the last 3 months.

Really face it you are getting a decent amount of attention but you want more attention. You want them to return to the days when that is all they worked on. But that will kill their business.

Really face it you are getting a decent amount of attention but you want more attention. You want them to return to the days when that is all they worked on. But that will kill their business.

Yes? ok tell me then ,were the TQ,s the only room s they were working on,was or had they more in the pipeline to finish
What are their expectations regarding WIS,do they think they will be able to pick it from the selves again

again not demanding more WIS right now ,but want to know if there could be more later

lol

Tell us what happen. Tell us, what you are planning, and goddamn, if you have problems to solve this in one part - try smaller steps.

Hi Eve Community,

We're sorry we ****** up with the terribad incarna release. We're leaving it in the hands of a skeleton crew for a bit so we can keep our jobs, and will be focusing on FIS content so that we don't lose all of you and have to close shop. WIS stuff may be added in the next expansion or two, but we promise that we're going to focus on the important things that you've been yelling at us for years to fix (war, sov, Faction War, etc).

We're sorry to those of you who joined up for $1000 jeans and WIS -- you'll have to bear with us as we get back to the core demographic that we've neglected for the last two years.

The minutes from the December CSM Summit will give everyone more information about where our new direction will be taking us. It'll be out soon(tm).

<3 CCP

(this is tongue in cheek, and no CCP never said this outright)


In seriousness though, CCP just went through probably the worst year since TQ has gone live. All of you who are screaming for them to go back to WIS have to realise that the rest of us have been here waiting for CCP to get back to fixing things in FIS. Soundwave's blog was joking about the :18 months: meme that CCP created when they told us that we'd get three expansions of NOTHING for FIS, because of their plans for ~awesome~.

Right now today, and at least until after the 2012 summer expansion (i.e. the next six months), CCP really *has* to focus on FiS -- they don't have a choice, because most of the playerbase is watching what they do.

we are not screaming for anything .
we just want some info ,is that so hard to understand
i have said this so many times ,i like what they did with crubicle and want them to continue that way
CCP stated themselves that crubicle was done in six weeks ,plus some needed bug fixes afterwards
They can do a lot more in 6 months and still give the WISpart a small crew

But DUST beta is coming so EVE development is on ICE anyway
FIS or WIS

The good news is that the 18 months are over and it feels pretty good. We had about 4-6 weeks of actual development time to put this release together and I honestly feel that this is the best release weGÇÖve done in years. The recipe contains a few teaspoons of really good looking people, an ounce of love for EVE and is topped off with good ideas from the community.

ItGÇÖs really only the beginning though. If you liked this release, all of next year should be right up your alley. If itGÇÖs old, rusty and not in good shape, there is a chance it will be looked at.

They talk and talk about FiS, which is fine. We agree that needs attention and probably the focus for at least one expansion.

But those who want WiS don't want it to become the next damn abandoned feature that nobody is gonna look a for years. We don't want to log in to see the damn lonely hearts CQ band wondering "what if".

And guess what? So far nobody is looking at it. That's the first step in becoming the abandoned elephant in the room, and with the background we have, it's udnerstandable that we want some atention and some PR fluff specially for us.

Ignoring a thread that's been going on for 2 motnhs and has reached 80+ pages is not going to fix anything, rather will put CCP in trouble sooner or later. "We care about our players and listen to them" does not mix well with "we flip the bird to a whole bunch of our players for no good reason".

CCP's exact prioritization for the next couple of expansions is still up in the air, but it will focus heavily on FiS work. There may be some more information in the Summit minutes about manpower allocations, but I can't go into more details at present.

They talk and talk about FiS, which is fine. We agree that needs attention and probably the focus for at least one expansion.

But those who want WiS don't want it to become the next damn abandoned feature that nobody is gonna look a for years. We don't want to log in to see the damn lonely hearts CQ band wondering "what if".

And guess what? So far nobody is looking at it. That's the first step in becoming the abandoned elephant in the room, and with the background we have, it's udnerstandable that we want some atention and some PR fluff specially for us.

Ignoring a thread that's been going on for 2 motnhs and has reached 80+ pages is not going to fix anything, rather will put CCP in trouble sooner or later. "We care about our players and listen to them" does not mix well with "we flip the bird to a whole bunch of our players for no good reason".

Honestly...
Eve went from about 50k peak concurrent users to maybe 35k when incarna was released... Coincidence?
The VAST! majority of players are not interested in WiS, there are several other games/playgrounds for that. Eve is a game about spaceships and CCP focusing on spaceships is good. For all I care they can remove the captains quarters completely and throw all WiS completely out together with emo teen girl mmo game they were working on (vampires...)

Most of us are into eve due to "spaceships" not WiS so CCP focusing on the core demographic isn't bad, its good. If you can't stand that maybe EVE isn't for you?

You're delusional in many ways that have been adressed too many times to bother again.

EVE is gonna die without WiS. FiS content can only be developed so far before jumping the shark and breaking the core game. So you need something else to do, and that something else is WiS.

Honestly...
Eve went from about 50k peak concurrent users to maybe 35k when incarna was released... Coincidence?
The VAST! majority of players are not interested in WiS, there are several other games/playgrounds for that. Eve is a game about spaceships and CCP focusing on spaceships is good. For all I care they can remove the captains quarters completely and throw all WiS completely out together with emo teen girl mmo game they were working on (vampires...)

Most of us are into eve due to "spaceships" not WiS so CCP focusing on the core demographic isn't bad, its good. If you can't stand that maybe EVE isn't for you?

Most of us are into eve due to "spaceships" not WiS so CCP focusing on the core demographic isn't bad, its good. If you can't stand that maybe EVE isn't for you?

You're delusional in many ways that have been adressed too many times to bother again.

EVE is gonna die without WiS. FiS content can only be developed so far before jumping the shark and breaking the core game. So you need something else to do, and that something else is WiS.

I'm delusional? Hmm perhaps. But what does sharks have to do with anything?

Why do people need something else to do? It is a game about spaceships (well subs in oil really but anyways) from what I've seen and read the core demographic isn't interested in WiS. At least not enough for it to be the focus of the game. There are other dressup games around, second life i think is still around.

I'm not saying they shouldn't eventually get WiS if they can do so without taking resources from the core game which is and always should be spaceships since quite frankly most who are interested in WiS (or similar) to the degree they play a game with that kind of gameplay would not be interested in EvE. Thinking that they will come is foolish.

WiS had the majority of CCP development assets for what 1-1,5 years and the result was disastrous for the core game. But sure CCP could always again tell you that it is on the back burner but their vision is for it to come eventually.

And by the way, FiSers got Crucible as a special delivery, whereas WiSers can't get an answer to our bloody relevant threadnaught.