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Make autopilot use warp to zero.

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Qutsemnie Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.03 05:40:00 - [1] Now that warp to zero is in play make it so that autopilot uses it. I find gimping autopilot to not use warp to zero to be the equivalent of making the autorun key in fantasy MMORPGs half speed of running by hand. (IE its the equivalent of making holding down the forward key twice as fast as just hitting the toggle run key). Similiar right? I mean before when nobody had every instant bookmark you could make the case that it was different. But now everyone can turn off autopilot, rightclick->stargate->warp ->warp 0, turn on autopilot. And it seems like you are just trying to make a reward for doing twenty jumps the tedious way... As I say that would be like making autorun suck just to keep people pressing the forward key... Its blah. Warp to 0 is in play... integrate it into the autopilot.
Avera Mikou	Posted - 2006.12.03 05:48:00 - [2] Yes please. I was pretty insulted/irritated when the warp to zero was changed and the autopilot was not.
X ChaosX Trogdor the Burninator Corporation	Posted - 2006.12.03 05:59:00 - [3] Originally by: Qutsemnie Now that warp to zero is in play make it so that autopilot uses it. I find gimping autopilot to not use warp to zero to be the equivalent of making the autorun key in fantasy MMORPGs half speed of running by hand. (IE its the equivalent of making holding down the forward key twice as fast as just hitting the toggle run key). Similiar right? I mean before when nobody had every instant bookmark you could make the case that it was different. But now everyone can turn off autopilot, rightclick->stargate->warp ->warp 0, turn on autopilot. And it seems like you are just trying to make a reward for doing twenty jumps the tedious way... As I say that would be like making autorun suck just to keep people pressing the forward key... Its blah. Warp to 0 is in play... integrate it into the autopilot. ___ Originally by: Bill Shankly i see your another one of those lousy pirates that cant fight fair and call yourself apvper, what a joke u are. Don't represent corp or alliance blah blah
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2006.12.03 06:09:00 - [4] i vote to keep auto to warp to 15km makes it so gate campers still can eat those lazy pilots whoe active pilots who are carful can squeese by
Qutsemnie Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.03 06:16:00 - [5] Yeah but lets remember that autopilot exist to help the player. It didnt even have to be in the game. They could have made eve a game where there wasnt an autopilot. I mean just a fact eve could be a game where any travel was by hand. They prolly considered it way back when. But they prolly saw that there is something unusually tedious about traveling by hand because of the construction of the game. There is an unusual amount of "zoning" in eve. You cant just point and run. So they make this tool to help you! Great. A tool to deemphasis the tedious aspect of long distance travel in Eve. Good idea. Then they listen to you and gimp the tool... That makes no sense! Its so antithematic its crazy. Autopilot exist to be used. To let you set a destination and then travel long distances without emphasising the 0 thought repetitive action of navigating through eve. But now we have factions represented by opinions like yours that just forget what autopilot is all about. Its there so you can concentrate on the game and not on 4 rightclicks per a jump. It exist to be intelligent. And you should endorse that intelligence because Eve travel is unusually tedious. You want autopilot to take out the repetitiveness. You dont want travel to be defined by who can stand the most repetitive clicking for the longest time period.
Nim9i5	Posted - 2006.12.03 06:39:00 - [6] To make the game more balanced I would say make some time of warp prohibitor range 12km around a stargate, or at least make it so you cant warp into it more than 12 km ;P
Reggie Stoneloader eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.03 07:32:00 - [7] The current state of affairs, with manual warp to 0 and autopilot warping to 15km, is ideal. It preserves the tradeoff between convenience and risk, and spares the servers the hundreds of millions of gate-to-gate bookmarks. On an aside, you know what I love? I love being able to bookmark an empire station and have "dock" be an option on the bookmark. That's how bookmarks were meant to function, and now they function that way. It's glorious. -------------- Civis Ascendant Sum
Feng Schui Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.12.03 10:54:00 - [8] Edited by: Feng Schui on 03/12/2006 10:56:11 no, and here is the reason why: The warp to-> 0km... or WTZ as people are calling it, is a substitute for bookmarks. As people delete thier gate to gate, and insta-dock bookmarks, the database that holds player information will decrease in size, thus.. the game won't have to "search" and "organize" billions of lines. That in itself, will decrease lag. I think I was the first to suggest this, but if I wasn't, cool (didn't see anyone else suggest it before though). edit: I "suggested" the Autopilot be at 15km is so that people won't just leave the game, and AP through low sec and what not AFK .
Reggie Stoneloader eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.03 10:57:00 - [9] They aren't that great for docking, though, since you've got to be at 0km to dock and you come out of warp up to 2km away. I deleted all my instadocks, and now I'm starting to rebuild my collection. Lousy 0km docking radius. Who would it hurt to let us dock from 2500m away? -------------- Civis Ascendant Sum
Feng Schui Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.12.03 11:26:00 - [10] tbh.. I think it depends on the station model. There are some stations that the WTZ docking is instant, other stations, not so instant.
Qutsemnie Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.03 11:36:00 - [11] on the side topic the prerelease patch notes say they are deleting all bookmarks within 25k of some stuff in the next patch so I wouldnt bother to rebuild your bookmarks unless you read the prerelease notes already.
Scouteye Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.03 11:42:00 - [12] Having AP as warp to 0 as well would be nice but as i spend most of my time in 0.0 and never use the AP it dont bother me really. When you read the tutorial's on this website you will see right at the start CCP states that this game is NOT an AFK game, every aspect has been designed so that there must be some user interaction at some point or you run the risk of harm/profit loss etc. Leaving the AP as it is is CCPs way of staying with this line of thought and good on them. Also, while every ones on AP and on the 15km aproach to a gate the servers have far more time to deal with those actualy jumping through the gates. If it was set to 0 the servers would have to deal with a LOT more gate jumps at one time meaning more lag in systems. IMO
Feng Schui Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.12.03 12:15:00 - [13] I think the lag caused by multiple jumps <<< the bookmarks
Alkirin Gallente Die Hard Mining	Posted - 2006.12.03 14:29:00 - [14] I think I've commented on a similar topic before this. Warp to 0 was never meant to be an actual function of the game. It was a sacrafice or the sake of reducing massive ammounts of lag due to bookmarks. [Cogito Ergo Sum Atheios] - Alkirin of Scientia Obscura
Tarron Sarek Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.03 14:37:00 - [15] I knew this would come up. Give them an inch and they will take a mile. Well, you could argue that maybe 10km instead of 15km would reduce AP travel time, making it a bit more tolerable, while still maintaining more than enough difference compared to manual wtz. But autopilot wtz is too much to ask for, sorry. ________________________ - Posting on forums is more arduous than sign language is for a blind man -
Pesadel0 Vagabundos THE H0RDE	Posted - 2006.12.03 14:50:00 - [16] no.
Ghevh	Posted - 2006.12.03 21:08:00 - [17] Yes, please make auto pilot warp to 0. So far I just warp to 0 and jump manually.
Qutsemnie Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.03 21:40:00 - [18] Edited by: Qutsemnie on 03/12/2006 21:43:10 I think its interesting "I dont use autopilot in 0.0" was brought up in the against the change column. Youve effectively said autopilot is useless to you in 0.0. Why shouldnt it be useful to you? I mean they expend a great deal of thought trying to think get people to 0.0 and low sec, and here they have this thing that is substanatively different about life in 0.0 and highsec. Namely in 0.0 you have to travel by hand without a real option of an autopilot, and in empire you can be assisted in your travel by an autopilot. And is that about afk? Still seems dangerous to afk travel in 0.0 the difference is you finally get an autopilot that isnt effectively garbage to you. You finally get an autopilot that you can actually use to drink a soda while you watch it jump like you would jump. Instead they seek and you seek to emphasis something that probably shouldnt be emphasised about eve. But more than that isnt the penalty for using autopilot rather severe? I mean in 0.0 the penalty is death otherwise some people would use it. Death for using autopilot is a severe downside! You cant see how such a thing is an abandonment of the goals of autopilot? Now someone said above that 0 distance jumping was never intended for the game and thats reason enough for it to be out of autopilot. But its in in a big way now! Just pretending it doesnt exist is going to result in somewhat adhoc seeming game play. It needs thorough integration. Personally I wonder if it shouldnt have took a module to jump to 0 distance/ and or be a function of character gear and current equipment. You know real integration into the game system that would have allowed for autopilot instead of being treated as something for which you should be ashamed.
Ranged Airman Black Sun Consortium	Posted - 2006.12.03 22:18:00 - [19] Hell no. If you want to go afk, then deal with the consequences. A system where autopilot to 0 is implemented is one in which it can be easily exploited. Hell no.
Hesod Adee Bright New Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.03 22:31:00 - [20] Originally by: Feng Schui edit: I "suggested" the Autopilot be at 15km is so that people won't just leave the game, and AP through low sec and what not AFK . There is already a suitable punishment for AFKing in low sec. Its when you jump into a gate camp and get killed. Besides aren't there a lot of people complaining that low-sec is too empty as it is ? Personally I feel that even if the autopilot had warp to 0, AFKing in low sec would still be a stupid idea. But if it had warp to 0 you can be doing other stuff while glancing at the overview. With warp to 0, I'm finding that there isn't enough time between the times I need to give the ship a command for me to be able to do anything worthwhile. It just is too annoying to switch back and forth all the time. ----------------- My door is always open, just don't go in.
Hesod Adee Bright New Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.03 22:33:00 - [21] Originally by: Ranged Airman Hell no. If you want to go afk, then deal with the consequences. A system where autopilot to 0 is implemented is one in which it can be easily exploited. Hell no. And how exactly will it be "easily exploited" ? ----------------- My door is always open, just don't go in.
Reggie Stoneloader eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.03 22:53:00 - [22] Autopilot with warp to 0 would be a lot faster and safer than the current autopilot, with the added bonus of being possible while afk. You could put your looties in haulers and ap through 0.0 without fear of gate rats, so just having one scout account and five hauling accounts, one guy could zip ahead in an interceptor looking for enemy players while the haulers chugged along behind, immune to everything. Before you know it, five Ity Vs full of Arbalest launchers and faction shield boosters pull up in empire and you make a billion isk with next to no risk and no chance for an enemy response. That's just one example that sprang immediately into my head, but generally speaking, autopilot is an unnecessary crutch. You shouldn't be using it at all. I haven't turned autopilot on at all for many moons, I just set destinations so the gates light up on my overview for easy navigation. Before WTZ, there were times when you'd gain nothing by sitting in front of the screen while traveling, because you were in safe space and the manual travelling was, if anything, slower than AP. So it was easier to hit autopilot and go afk. But now, with WTZ, we have a clear, universal benefit for playing the game directly. I wouldn't complain if autopilot was taken away, so long as we can still set a destination and have it indicate the next gate on the path. -------------- Civis Ascendant Sum
Alkirin Gallente Die Hard Mining	Posted - 2006.12.03 23:17:00 - [23] For once, I will have to disagree with you partially on this. On the one hand, AP Warp to 0 makes it possible for people to avoid gate camps while AFK....as a pose to avoiding gate camps while sitting at the comp. You may enjoy staring at the bland scenery and repetitive SFX that accompany long distance travels, but many really don't. The most spirited arguments against this are for the sake of having someone make a few (more) unneccessary repetitive clicks. If that's what you call 'playing the game', there there can't honestly be much to what the people against it are doing. Oh, right, sitting for hours at gatecamps isnt much at all. So, the argument essentially boils down to others not being allowed to afk through poorly setup camps (because some are capable of catching people WITH WTZ), because you spend hours on end trying to catch them. [Cogito Ergo Sum Atheios] - Alkirin of Scientia Obscura
DizzixX Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.12.03 23:19:00 - [24] Alot of you seem to want both realism and gameplay and in some cases those two things clash. The autopilot is a good example of that, assuming they have the technology in the future for space travel and what not you would think that they would add an autopilot function simmilar to that in big planes, all you really have to do for the most part is land and take off (IE dock undock) There is absolutely no reason to gimp autopilot that I can think of that is a logical one, other than to make gate campers happy, and to keep the people that enjoy the solitude of 0.0 happy. Seriously just like when they added the market skills everyone freaked out preaching the end of the economic world in eve. Chill out really why make it harder then it has to be or should be. Your Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Arch Templar, wrecking for 447.5 damage.
Reggie Stoneloader eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.03 23:35:00 - [25] In order to understand this issue, it's best to look at it historically. The idea with 15km warps was to make it difficult to disengage from combat without either winning the fight or making a deal or being rescued, since you couldn't get out of the system unless you outwitted or outfought your adversary. Instabookmarks were discovered very quickly, and over time everyone started using them. Bookmarks for instajumps and instadocks were considered a mild sort of exploit, but were tolerated because they'd be too hard to ***** down on. Over time, the bookmark database grew and grew, until it became a real obstacle to server performance, and it became clear that something had to be done. The debate's been going on for over a year. Some wanted all bookmarks deleted, others wanted warp disruption spheres around all gates, others wanted unconditional warp to 0km, and still others called for drastic changes to the jump gate system. Ultimately, CCP acknowledged that insta bookmarks are central to the current state of gameplay in EvE, and removing their functionality would be disastrous to the balance which has been tweaked countless times with instas in the game. Rather than attempt to revamp travel and combat entirely, they introduced a short-cut to the effect of bookmarks. This has minimal impact on the game at large, since everyone in 0.0 and most people in empire have bookmark sets anyway, but almost totally fixes the gross server load all those BMs introduced. So warp to 0 isn't a new superpower, it's an old superpower that everyone's getting for free. It's a band-aid for the servers and a mild annoyance for gate campers (although the smart ones have already figured it out and are tanking sentries with sensor-boosted Hawks now anyway, losing nothing). This debate's months old, and if you haven't been participating in it, you need to get caught up before you voice an opinion on it, because odds are your idea has been brought up and thoroughly examined before now. -------------- Civis Ascendant Sum
Kayden Drake Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.04 01:04:00 - [26] I have to say that I like the way the system is currently as well. Traveling is boring, but currently there is a reward for the boredom if you want to do it all manually. Doesnt it make sense for those who really want to get somewhere fast to be able to get there faster than someone who is AFK watching TV while ferrying something around? Reward for the boredom! Honestly, if Im doing something that I feel completely safe doing AFK with the AP on, I dont really care how fast it gets done. The fact is its STILL getting done w/o you being there. This debate reminds me of all the complaining that made CCP buckle down on macrominers what... 2 years ago? Mining is even MORE boring than traveling, and the people who didnt use macros were ****ed that someone could circumvent all the boredom they were being put through and be just as effective. Some people wanted autohaulers, saying that "why should I have to be here doing this repetive task while the miner can be AFK sleeping or something?". So CCP just made it so macros were illegal. (Frankly I think Itd be cool if they put in some sort of mining system equivalent to the AP system currently. Implement a way of mining entirely AFK, but make it less effective than if the person was at the computer actively doing it. I dunno if that'd be possible, but Itd be cool). Of course there were other aspects to that debate, but this one is the one that is most revelent to the topic at hand
Protunia Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.04 04:58:00 - [27] Auto Pilot to 0km would be a joke. My Character Stats
Ansuru Starlancer The Phoenix Rising Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.04 06:29:00 - [28] Warp to 0 was for one purpose only: to nip the problems that were insta bms in the butt (laggy, BM scams, have vs have not whingers, etc). It was not to make travel easier. Travel is no easier than it was at any time before; you just don't have to lay out cash for a set of BMs anymore. Warp to 0 was not intended for you to be able to autopilot in near perfect safety with the quickness of actually sitting there and doing it for yourself. You want to automate travel? Take the speed penalty and enjoy it!
Avera Mikou	Posted - 2006.12.04 06:31:00 - [29] Okay, well maybe a fair compromise would be to have it still warp to 15km but at least turn on AB or MWD, whichever is present, for closing the gap to the station.
Protunia Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.04 09:40:00 - [30] Originally by: Avera Mikou Okay, well maybe a fair compromise would be to have it still warp to 15km but at least turn on AB or MWD, whichever is present, for closing the gap to the station. hehe yeah and I want auto gun firing, auto shields, auto......... My Character Stats
Sugarbunny	Posted - 2006.12.04 09:55:00 - [31] I would rather return to warp_to_15 than let you carebears travel as fast as i do with your lazy autopilot ;)
Sessho Seki	Posted - 2006.12.04 11:44:00 - [32] CCP actually gives us what many thought would never be, instantaneous jumping and docking, and all you have to do is precisely the same few clicks that instant bookmarks used to require. This solves tons of problems, will make the game run far better in the long run, and helps eliminate the whole bookmark dilemma entirely. But of course people want even more, some want auto pilot to dock for you too, others even want “round trips” programmable (why not ask CCP to just run the trade routes for you while you’re at it?). There was a time when there was no autopilot! Be grateful that you have it in any form at all. If you want to warp to zero, you have it for basically every celestial object in the galaxy now! You have literally been given instant dock and instant jump “bookmarks” preprogrammed into the game for every station and star gate in the galaxy, and all some people can do is say “please sir, can I have some more?”. [Engage Hyper Sarcasm Mode] Just suffer through with the terrible burden of having to RIGHT CLICK and drag out to the desired location. I know it’s worthy of a trial in Nuremberg as a crime against humanity for such horrors to be pressed upon you, but we’re all having to suffer equally under the oppressive regime CCP has set up to give us easy means of transportation throughout the game galaxy but making people click their mouse a couple times to use that means is simply beyond unforgivable!
Avera Mikou	Posted - 2006.12.04 14:12:00 - [33] Originally by: Protunia Originally by: Avera Mikou Okay, well maybe a fair compromise would be to have it still warp to 15km but at least turn on AB or MWD, whichever is present, for closing the gap to the station. hehe yeah and I want auto gun firing, auto shields, auto......... Well, there is a button called autopilot. Seems kind of obvious that when a ship flies, it should turn on its engines. There is not a button called "autotank" and so I'm not asking it to autotank, but if they give you something called autopilot, it might as well act like one.
Seriya Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2006.12.04 14:45:00 - [34] /signed "Warp to 0" has obseleted autopilot. Why shouldn't I be able to browse the forums while travelling 30 jumps without having to flick back to the game every 15 seconds to do some tedious clicking.
Captain Counterpart	Posted - 2006.12.04 15:39:00 - [35] no. unbalaced.
Seriya Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2006.12.04 16:15:00 - [36] Originally by: Captain Counterpart no. unbalaced. That's not an arguement. If there's a lack of balance it's in warp to 0. The autopilot simply removes tedium and unnecessary clicking.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2006.12.04 16:31:00 - [37] Thats right, why not just force CCP remove ALL TRAVEL? I mean who wants to travel? Who needs it? Lets make it so we can just use /teleport like the devs - and forget the whole WTZ and AP stuff? I mean, why should I bother to actually think and plan in this game, when CCP can hold my hand and give me everything I want at the click of a Slash/Command. Thats was sarcasm. WTZ the way it works now is a bloody godsend to most of EVE community. Those who want to travel AFK or Macro Trade Routes, can do it slower. Those who are activley participating can do it quicker. Cheers. P.S. Did I mention, NO to WTZ/AP stuff?
Ansuru Starlancer The Phoenix Rising Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.04 17:16:00 - [38] Back in my EverQuest days, it was /zone burned woods, or /goto Ep33nDr3@dnite111 :p Ahh, for the good old days of the /kill command bugging entire zones.
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.12.05 05:05:00 - [39] Originally by: Qutsemnie Edited by: Qutsemnie on 03/12/2006 21:43:18 I think its interesting "I dont use autopilot in 0.0" was brought up in the against the change column. Youve effectively said autopilot is useless to you in 0.0. Why shouldnt it be useful to you? I mean they expend a great deal of thought trying to think get people to 0.0 and low sec, and here they have this thing that is substanatively different about life in 0.0 and highsec. Namely in 0.0 you have to travel by hand without a real option of an autopilot, and in empire you can be assisted in your travel by an autopilot. Instead they seek and you seek to emphasis something that probably shouldnt be emphasised about eve. But more than that isnt the penalty for using autopilot rather severe? I mean in 0.0 the penalty is death otherwise some people would use it. Death for using autopilot is a severe downside! You cant see how such a thing is an abandonment of the goals of autopilot? Now someone said above that 0 distance jumping was never intended for the game and thats reason enough for it to be out of autopilot. But its in in a big way now! Just pretending it doesnt exist is going to result in somewhat adhoc seeming game play. It needs thorough integration. Personally I wonder if it shouldnt have took a module to jump to 0 distance/ and or be a function of character gear and current equipment. You know real integration into the game system that would have allowed for autopilot instead of being treated as something for which you should be ashamed. why do you not use autopilot in 0.0? let's see here... bubbles gate rats that can actually kill you The biggest thing is players, just becuase a gate was clear 5 mins ago does not mean it is clear now.
mallina Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.05 05:29:00 - [40] Originally by: Tarron Sarek I knew this would come up. Give them an inch and they will take a mile. this represents my thoughts exactly. EVE is being made too easy, tbh. I never agreed with WTZ in the first place and the Insta users before that were bad enough, but if CCP keep making things more easier for people eventually the game is just going to become unrealistic, lacking in diversity and generally dull and stale. ----------- Turbulance
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2006.12.05 05:43:00 - [41] Warp to zero was inserted to replace instas, you never instajumped with autopilot on before did you? Guess what you're not now either, fly activelly and you're fine, AFK and Ginger Magician will get you. Nebula Rasa Holdings
Petrothian Tong	Posted - 2006.12.05 06:22:00 - [42] errrm no...and I am saying this as a bear... Warp to zero is to replace Instas, which needs you to be at the comp to use. OP, your analogy is flawed, since BOTH scenaro you mentioned requires the person to be attending the computer to use. while with autopilot, you can set 20 jumps and Go off to watch T.V/spend time with your wife. and STILL get there. (try using the run key in other mmorpg afk...it wont work like autopilot would it?)
Destania Caldari Caldari Border Patrol	Posted - 2006.12.05 18:08:00 - [43] I disagree to having autopilot warp to 0m. You want a safer route you can choose that by selecting only high sec systems. WOn't prevent the occasional pirate that takes the chance in highsec but thats far and few. If your doing autopilot then your probably doing something else other then playing the game and i think there should be risks involved in those cases. Plus, if you are doing something else then those few extra jumps in safe sec won't hurt your surf time by much if anything it will give you that little extra time to finish reading what ever your are :)

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