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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
713
|
Posted - 2015.07.28 23:45:11 -
[31] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:TheExtruder wrote:+1 well written ideas, i like it, one step at a time we can make pve more like pvp Why do you all want to bring your snorefests to my pacy pve?
since someone mentioned anomalies and such harder rats more bounty with many anomaly smashing setups will be more isk per hour for them. havens and sanctums in current states can be grindy. As you chew through a crap ton of rats to get paid. This idea...I gather they want same payout in just a few rats.
Why some complain about the burners. they wanted full mission payout of say WC....for the one rat death. that ain't happening. I see some run burners in just a few minutes. CCP is not giving out potentially 30 mil (bounty + mission reward alone, full wipe off all WC rooms...may not be 30 mil but I know its near there as I recall) for 5 minutes of work or less. Want the 30 mil of WC....take the at least tick or 2 for full room sweepage. Plus room 1's fun long journey to either side's spawn area to unlock gate. then the long haul back to gate after unlock at least for the first run of room 1.
In short....CCP kind of planned not making 30 mil isk in 5 minutes of work. And sure as hell ain't giving 0.0 local escalated pve. CCP kind of made their escalations require travel time. Want the stage 2 of that content for bigger money, bigger prizes....move your happy ass to the next system its at to get it. Don't get shot up in the process in a camp and all the riches are yours to collect. |

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
399
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 01:35:07 -
[32] - Quote
davet517 wrote:I doubt that. The AI that would simulate how a player flys a tackler, or a logi, or a DPS ship, whether its a kiter or a brawler, really isn't all that complex, when you think about it Have you ever tried to write an AI? Hell with that have you ever even sat down, taken 2 ships and then tried to flow chart all of the possible variables, all of the possible actions and outcomes that could occur from just these 2 ships? If not then I suggest you grab a lot of paper and try it, might give you an idea of how complex it would be. And yes I have been on a team tasked with writing a simple AI as a college project. From that experience I can only imagine the difficulty that your idea would be to execute.
Big question if this AI of yours is so simple how do you write an AI to handle the instant gut felling level of decisions that many PvP players make. You know like the one that has you charging forward with guns blazing when ALL of the information available says the right thing to do is warp off?
davet517 wrote:I did. For the reasons that I stated. The necessity of having to do PvE in a ship that's more or less useless for PvP makes ratter vs. roamer encounters uninteresting. They should be more interesting. As you stated about my ideas so it is with yours, this is not proven by facts, it is merely your opinion of the situation. I would venture a guess that even if they were in full on PvP fits most players would simply warp out if possible. Why is because even in a PvP fit ship they will be set up to handle the damage type the NPC will be hitting them with, knowing what that damage type is you would be fit to hit the ratter in his resist holes. Common sense and a common desire not to fight a losing battle dictates that the ratter would warp off rather than stay around and see what you brought to the party. I doubt I am but I could be wrong on this.
davet517 wrote:First of all, I'm pretty sure an idea has to be tried before it fails. One does not need to hit ones own hand with a hammer to know it will hurt. Likewise I do not need to see DATA to prove that some players will never fight no matter what you do to or with them, and it wil not matter what you change in the game. This is fact proven by many thousands of years of recorded human history and it will not change because this is EvE and it will not change because you say it should.
davet517 wrote:Secondly, that's not my reason for suggesting this at all. My focus here is primarily 0.0 anoms. Then you should be more precise in communicating your ideas. These forums are populated by all manor of players with different outlooks and priorities. If you do not specify that your idea is for 0.0 space only then we must infer from what you do say that you intend it to be applied game wide.
davet517 wrote:I I don't think that missions should be the focus of this at all, though the idea could be applied to low-sec missions. I'm thinking more of 0.0 anom runners. See aboce about being more precise in communicating your ideas.
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
328
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 04:10:54 -
[33] - Quote
There are lot of posts based on the same flawed premise that you can change a persons personality with game mechanics.
You cannot.
Throw as many flavors of stupid as you wish at the simple fact if life and it still wont change.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1530
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 04:27:05 -
[34] - Quote
davet517 wrote:afkalt wrote:Tackle can never be a requirement as it invalidates ALL long range fits. Bring a tackler, if you want to fly a sniper, and make sure that the AI adapts the NPC fleet comp to what you brought, and that the reward scales appropriately. If you want to solo, bring a brawler, or a shorter range kiter. It's no different from PvP, where you don't solo in a ship without a point. Imagine rock-paper-scissors PVE where the fleet comp of what you're facing keeps changing as you kill ships, getting more challenging for you. Would be really cool. Despite my tag, I might even rat again. It would also be awfully cool to warp into an anom wondering what kind of solo or small gang PvP setup you were about to face. I seriously wonder if there are any PvPers who actually do this? Just warp in a fit without any idea of what they are going up against. The concept demonstrated does seem more restrictive though. Apparently the idea is to restrict the applicable toolset for PvE? If all it means is fewer options, why would that be desirable. |

Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
41
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 04:39:52 -
[35] - Quote
davet517 wrote:The necessity of having to do PvE in a ship that's more or less useless for PvP makes ratter vs. roamer encounters uninteresting. They should be more interesting.
No.
Considering how often I get visited, it's already too interesting for one side. You cannot make it any more interesting to a ratter for a number of reasons: 1) aka the most important reason - eve combat pvp is NOT interesting by definition. The "more SP always wins" formula makes it so. Thus, unless you are willing to shake that bloody foundation of all eve combat pvp, there is no way you can make it interesting. 2) is having to deal with a specialized anti-ratter fit in a makeshift general pvp fit. That will make fight not interesting anyway, so the general solution would stay warping away even if you are mental enough to ignore 1). 3) The ganker will not fight if he's not supposed to win, so he will just pass on everyone he can't take, and if you call this interesting, you have been using the wrong word for dull. Right now he can take everyone, so this will make it less interesting for a ganker, not more... which would've been nice, if only it weren't third on the importance list. 4) aka the obvious - risk, reward, isk, loss aversion, etc. Your proposal deals with some parts of this point, but man, it's 4th priority.
tl;dr - It's already too interesting for a ganker and can't be made more interesting for a ratter, because reasons. |

elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
770
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 05:45:38 -
[36] - Quote
My I interest you in some very, very, very hard anomalies that if you don't bring a few corpmates will be the end of what you just flew in with?
The first burner missions were too difficult and too expensive for my taste, so I say no dear agent. But again I have found the ultimate pve challenge for small gangs Sleepers. Too easy you say? Have you tried to engage 6 Sleepless Guardians at once? Your 3 billion marauder was just sacrificed to bob. Now we get three weeks of sunshine because of that sacrifice.
Yeah let someone gank you in class 5/6 sleeper anomalies, what could go wrong.. I'll tell you, since it happened to a buddy and I while doing a sleeper relic site. We were in the last wave and doing well 'only' two battleships left on the field but you cannot compare those with Blood Raider or Guristas. We were orbiting the center of a structure at a wide orbit and a Heretic and a Phantasm appear on grid. My corpmate asks me on comms if we should tower up and I took a few seconds and said "no, we could shoot them instead.."
Said and done. The Heretic goes down and we started to chase the Phantasm which bailed with no shields left (he was buffer tanked). W-space is awesome. Use your immediate environment to your advantage. We made about 50m each for creating content and 15 minutes of excitement.
PVP is only boring if you are in lowsec with station humpers that cannot loose a single ship and undock archons on you, that typhoon must survive, it's the last one in EVE.
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
713
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 07:23:46 -
[37] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:There are lot of posts based on the same flawed premise that you can change a persons personality with game mechanics.
You cannot.
Throw as many flavors of stupid as you wish at the simple fact if life and it still wont change.
This the other issue. the whole pvp is so different...well immerse yourself in it if any desire to try. Some will lack this urge and will never make that jump. Which is fine...old boy wants to spend lots of money to play an mmo single player style well then have it really.
Me and friends 2 months in said lets go pvp in low sec. May be on a roam we may (and did in fact) DIAF on but was fun all the same. Just went on from there really.
But...we already had pvp in out blood as it were. I came to this game from another MMO where we ran in a heavy pvp focus guild. Had the pvp bug, Game was not dead yet but a few of us wanted something different and new. SO one guy went I used to play a game called eve, lets go play that. We came to new game (old to some), learned its basic play mechanics in missions right quick then followed our pvp urges real fast. Player wants the pvp they will go for it basically. |

Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
57
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 13:39:34 -
[38] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:davet517 wrote:FT Diomedes wrote: What is to stop me from playing games with standings to fool the system?
I'd imagine it'd be based on the ratter's standings. Neutral or hostile to the ratter is considered "hostile" by the system. Okay, so, I am getting my ass handed to me by the rats, so I warp in my neutral alt and all the rats warp away immediately. Or maybe I don't actually want to fight - I just want to troll the living hell out of the ratter. So I simply warp in to every complex he tries to run, causing all the rats to warp away, then immediately warp out. Not saying it is a hopelessly bad idea, you just have to consider how Eve players will break it.
The thinking ahead type huh, lol. |

Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
197
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 14:34:39 -
[39] - Quote
Baaldor wrote:Lady Rift wrote:won't change people wanting to dock up with neutral in local in 0.0, they may be open to the idea of pvp based on where they are but when ratting its to make isk not to pvp if there is a chance to lose isk then they won't do it. it is not isk, it is the hand wringing behind the key board. The risk of loss has been almost eliminated due to the isk faucet that is wide open at the moment. No worries in losing your pod's, no worries on losing anything any more. if some one wants to inject risk in the game, you would have to cram a sht ton of high end plants in your head to get the thrill back again. No, isk no longer is a viable argument, it is an excuse.
I dont get things SRP'ed. I feel my losses. when I'm earning isk to replace something I lost or for a new shiny thing if that's what I launched eve to do then docking up will be what I do when someone +1's that isn't blue. I'm not going to risk my ship in a one sided fight where I lose 95% of the time even if I have a couple bill just sitting in my wallet at the time. |

Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1501
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 15:45:53 -
[40] - Quote
The last time I saw a ccp:dev mention this was several years ago iirc it was Seagull, who stated it was a long term goal to have no difference between a pvp fit and a pve fit
taking the timeframe into account, I would guess that the dev team have discovered that this is not a quick and simple fix
the differences between pve and pvp are complex and far reaching npc's should equally operate more like pc's
which ccp tried with the sleeper AI .. and there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth
you might have to accept, that eve may always have an aspect to its gameplay that you don't like ccp CANNOT make everyone happy all of the time, nor should they even try. |

Koebmand
Silverflames
43
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 04:07:41 -
[41] - Quote
Content scaling is bad.
Means:
You can't bring friends to help with something that didn't work out.
You can't play with a weak friend, because he is dragging down the team compared to the enemy.
You need total min-maxing everything all the time, no trying something for FUN! |

Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
62
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 06:05:26 -
[42] - Quote
Orca Platypus wrote:davet517 wrote:Orca Platypus wrote:
I'd rather go stabs or self-destruct than entertain a roamer.
 You entertain one roamer, 25 of them come. Not entertaining a roamer is pretty damn basic ratting policy. ED: Since most roamers are going to have more SP than me (because I have only 2010 char with 2 years break as my best), I will lose my ship anyway, so self-destructing is obviously better choice - you can't counter lack of SP. And stabs are SOP for ratting in dangerous areas.
Lack of SP? A 2010 char with a 2 year break should still have around 60+ mill SP, just how much SP do you think you need??
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
62
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 06:22:51 -
[43] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:My I interest you in some very, very, very hard anomalies that if you don't bring a few corpmates will be the end of what you just flew in with?
The first burner missions were too difficult and too expensive for my taste, so I say no dear agent. But again I have found the ultimate pve challenge for small gangs Sleepers. Too easy you say? Have you tried to engage 6 Sleepless Guardians at once? Your 3 billion marauder was just sacrificed to bob. Now we get three weeks of sunshine because of that sacrifice.
Yeah let someone gank you in class 5/6 sleeper anomalies, what could go wrong.. I'll tell you, since it happened to a buddy and I while doing a sleeper relic site. We were in the last wave and doing well 'only' two battleships left on the field but you cannot compare those with Blood Raider or Guristas. We were orbiting the center of a structure at a wide orbit and a Heretic and a Phantasm appear on grid. My corpmate asks me on comms if we should tower up and I took a few seconds and said "no, we could shoot them instead.."
Said and done. The Heretic goes down and we started to chase the Phantasm which bailed with no shields left (he was buffer tanked). W-space is awesome. Use your immediate environment to your advantage. We made about 50m each for creating content and 15 minutes of excitement.
PVP is only boring if you are in lowsec with station humpers that cannot loose a single ship and undock archons on you, that typhoon must survive, it's the last one in EVE.
LOL |
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