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The fall of a once fair alliance.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Boris Butterfield	Posted - 2006.12.05 12:04:00 - [31] Damn those rouge drones!!!
nickycakes Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.05 15:50:00 - [32] Originally by: Morden Nok After NOS napped second hostile alliance, LV, and allowed them to set up staging POS that was nice location if they ever decided to bring cap ships to bolster their raids in our space... that part made me giggle Rarely Outnumbered, Usually Outgunned, Never Outsmacked
Fraszoid Caldari Intergalactic Mining	Posted - 2006.12.05 16:19:00 - [33] Originally by: Leno All i know is that i read this OP and i want to go to hardees Join the club. Everyone is born right handed, only the great over come it. Check out my players guide at: http://www.eve-miners.info/guide/minersguide.html

Petwraith Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.12.05 17:23:00 - [34] Thread cleaned. Please stay on topic. --- If it ain't orange, it ain't offical! If it aint red it ain't important. - Hutch If it's blue, it's time to call the goat to fix it- Tirg

Ace101 Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.05 18:12:00 - [35] Letting LV put POS up in your systems.... CVA ftw!
Dev Corland BloodStorm Elite	Posted - 2006.12.06 07:21:00 - [36] Originally by: nickycakes Originally by: Morden Nok After NOS napped second hostile alliance, LV, and allowed them to set up staging POS that was nice location if they ever decided to bring cap ships to bolster their raids in our space... that part made me giggle
Royaldo Old Farts The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.06 07:35:00 - [37] why people chose to live down there is beyond me.. its by far the most crappy region ingame
Dev Corland BloodStorm Elite	Posted - 2006.12.06 09:02:00 - [38] Originally by: Royaldo why people chose to live down there is beyond me.. its by far the most crappy region ingame Gotta be inhabited by someone, and it really is the perfect playground for people to get a rather dumbed down taste of 0.0. The CVA has done a great job of enabling that. NOS does deserve some independence though, doesn't it?
Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.12.06 12:59:00 - [39] Edited by: Audrea on 06/12/2006 13:03:05 Originally by: Jobie Thickburger Novus Ordos had finally began moving forward after the expulsion of the Widowmakers from NOS. LOL, WTS clue for the clueless Long story short, it was Widowmakers and the corps which merged, who cut loose the leeches to fend for themself. The corps who left didnt contribute in any way, only were whining about everything and every decision the alliance leadership was trying to implement. Cherno adressed pretty much all other points. Also what Cadiz said is not correct, some people (such as myself, and some others) preferred to fight with the rest of Huzzah and SA, in Catch and Querious, while others preferred to stay fighting pirates and other KOS in providence. If anything, it was HF leadership which failed to divide its resources in such a way, to allow to satisfaction of those who preferred to keep holding provi, with the wish to hold on to Catch. With its numbers, HF should have been able to easily hold both, if only the proper allocation of resources been done. As a final note to Jobie Thinburger: If you were so good and resourceful, why havnt you stopped the dreads sieging the pos?? Perhaps because you are one of the backseat drivers? You think attacking a better armed pos would have made any diffrence to the dreads? then you are really clueless EDIT: I always prefer to read threads via eve-search, forum moderators are such a useless profession, Petwraith Its great being a Gallente blasterpilot, aint it? Save Tranquility!
Hans Roaming Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.06 13:01:00 - [40] Originally by: Jobie Thickburger During this assault, The leader of NOS at the time, Kaithia, resigned. Our Fleet commander, Transcendence took command, and immediately contacted CVA, and meeting the demands placed by both CVA and Momentum. Transcendence completely surrendered NOS after the near loss of a single, un-needed POS, and as such, lost much respect among some of the more active leaders in the Alliance, Including myself. Don't get me wrong, the course of action taken may not have been avoidable, but personally, I would never surrender after such a small loss, as would very few others I know. Also, The return of NOS to its prior standings, forced by Momentum. (the former Widowmakers), has shown that Novus Ordos Secolorum is incapable of choosing its own friends and enemies. NOS is unable to make any decisions of its own, as any decision that is looked poorly upon by either CVA or Momentum will be revoked by force. I can't believe that things would go to pot so fast due to a couple of dreads shooting at a small POS, what about trying to shoot those dreads. If your leader resigned at the height of a crisis then I guess he did you a favour although am not sure the surrender was warrented. This is a game and it isn't about the ISK but the experiences, how can these people not fight for their rights to self determination when the impact to their real lives is absolutly zero? Look like you made the right move Jobie, good luck on your new adventures.

Hans Roaming Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.06 13:19:00 - [41] Originally by: Audrea If anything, it was HF leadership which failed to divide its resources in such a way, to allow to satisfaction of those who preferred to keep holding provi, with the wish to hold on to Catch. With its numbers, HF should have been able to easily hold both, if only the proper allocation of resources been done. Two regions, HED pipe in the middle and two groups of people who wanted to focus on Catch and Providence. Widowmakers iirc wanted to self fund outposts and make money whilst those in catch wanted alliance outposts and free to alliance members. After a while it became clear that the two groups were really wanting to go on seperate paths with the future of the Huzzah alliance. I called for a poll that basically said what do corps think Huzzah should do, live in catch, providence or both. The bulk said one or the other and in the end the corps who wanted to be in Providence formed NOS whilst the rest of Huzzah focused on Catch which improved things no end for the latter as it could concentrate forces and assets. NOS had its own destiny in its hands and so was happier as a result too. Not a perfect solution but a pragmatic one in an alliance where it took a lot of persuation to get resources and people focused to do things. For an example remember how hard it was to try and get focus on securing and running the 4-0 complex, especially as that involved a fight and NPCs were so much easier and nearer in the belts.
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.06 13:34:00 - [42] Originally by: Pezzle LV are not friendly or even neutral, they are pirates. Actually we prefer the term "Ship and asset removal professionals" F4T4L is Recruiting!
Silvestri FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.06 13:34:00 - [43] so where is this unarmed LV pos???
Jobie Thickburger Gallente Intergalactic Mining	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:06:00 - [44] Originally by: Audrea Edited by: Audrea on 06/12/2006 13:03:05 Originally by: Jobie Thickburger Novus Ordos had finally began moving forward after the expulsion of the Widowmakers from NOS. LOL, WTS clue for the clueless Long story short, it was Widowmakers and the corps which merged, who cut loose the leeches to fend for themself. The corps who left didnt contribute in any way, only were whining about everything and every decision the alliance leadership was trying to implement. Cherno adressed pretty much all other points. Also what Cadiz said is not correct, some people (such as myself, and some others) preferred to fight with the rest of Huzzah and SA, in Catch and Querious, while others preferred to stay fighting pirates and other KOS in providence. If anything, it was HF leadership which failed to divide its resources in such a way, to allow to satisfaction of those who preferred to keep holding provi, with the wish to hold on to Catch. With its numbers, HF should have been able to easily hold both, if only the proper allocation of resources been done. As a final note to Jobie Thinburger: If you were so good and resourceful, why havnt you stopped the dreads sieging the pos?? Perhaps because you are one of the backseat drivers? You think attacking a better armed pos would have made any diffrence to the dreads? then you are really clueless EDIT: I always prefer to read threads via eve-search, forum moderators are such a useless profession, Petwraith Personal Attacks Aside, I reported the infomation as It had been told to me, (I.E. Widowmakes Et. Al. leaving/being expeled) and as I had seen it. That was mentioned at the beginning. As for Defending the POS. I was in the fight, Check your killboards if you want. I was following the orders of the Fleet commander, and did as I was told. Any pilot here can attest that even a small CT under a seige of 20+- ships, With only 2 dreads, should get a few kills in, I never expected the CT to live, But it shouldn't have bee na breaking point. My Job was to supply what I could with what I was given, And I did a lot more with that than many people could. Having the manufacturing director job dropped on me (although I didn't mind this) only about 2 weeks before the Assault didn't help. Having limited resources from the start didn't help either. Yall came at a good time, and used the logistics that you had avialable. I wouldn't have done anything that yall did differently. Quote: You think attacking a better armed pos would have made any diffrence to the dreads? then you are really clueless I know VERY well that even a LARGE pos can't shoot down a dread without support. (unless the dread pilot is dumb, or the POS is set up for nothing but guns, Either way...) The point of the matter is, One of those BSs you attacked the POS with are worth more than the POS itself, and as such, Even a small CT should be able to take down a BS. The fact that the CT didn't get any kills is a sign of how little self defense it had. I've already stated that I WAS NOT IN CHARGE of the defense force, Nor in charge of the diplomatics of the time. I was in charge of building and manufacturing. Thats what I did. And I did it well given What I had. Audrea, If your attempting to make it seem the loss was my fault, IIRC A solider can't be blamed for following orders. On the other hand, The commander can be blamed for premature Surrender. That is why we left In short, A main reason for my leaving was an unwillingness of my comrades to fight. Boy, that sounds familiar... His Planetship, CEO, IM
Audrea Momentum.	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:38:00 - [45] Originally by: Jobie Thickburger I've already stated that I WAS NOT IN CHARGE of the defense force, Nor in charge of the diplomatics of the time. I was in charge of building and manufacturing. Thats what I did. And I did it well given What I had. Audrea, If your attempting to make it seem the loss was my fault, IIRC A solider can't be blamed for following orders. On the other hand, The commander can be blamed for premature Surrender. That is why we left That defintly was not my intention. You followed orders and thats all good and deserves respect. However what doesnt, is you coming here, saying we were expelled from the alliance (specifically that wording) - which is NOT true - is what draws the flames to you. If you want fair and respectful replies, post facts only on your announcements. IE This: Quote: I reported the infomation as It had been told to me, (I.E. Widowmakes Et. Al. IS NOT a FACT. Its great being a Gallente blasterpilot, aint it? Save Tranquility!
Jobie Thickburger Gallente Intergalactic Mining	Posted - 2006.12.07 02:55:00 - [46] Edited by: Jobie Thickburger on 07/12/2006 02:56:41 Originally by: Audrea IE This: Quote: I reported the infomation as It had been told to me, (I.E. Widowmakes Et. Al. IS NOT a FACT. As I said already, I am reporting what was told to me. I wasn't in NOS during the big split. When I was recruited, I was told by the leadership at the time that widowmakers were Expelled from NOS due to In-effective leadership. Be this what happend or not, I don't know. Either way, I report what I see. Brainwashing may not be a lost art after all, But as I have no proof of anything to say the other way, My report included what the offical word of the leaders of NOS had passed to the new members. Even if you say it is or isn't a fact, It would be a war of words which neither side could effectivly prove here. His Planetship, CEO, IM
Flinx Evenstar Momentum.	Posted - 2006.12.07 03:31:00 - [47] Originally by: Jobie Thickburger As I said already, I am reporting what was told to me. I wasn't in NOS during the big split. When I was recruited, I was told by the leadership at the time that widowmakers were Expelled from NOS due to In-effective leadership. We left..trust me Most of the leaders came with us, so I dont see how that can be expulsion, war of words or not As for ineffective leadership...look where we are now, and what NOS became after our departure. Originally by: Silvestri so where is this unarmed LV pos??? We spent a fair amount of time during out guerilla attacks on NOS space..scanning all the POS And if they were told the LV POS was unarmed..they were lied to Ok it is poorly armed with Minmatar Autocannons...but they is still guns baby
Master Spoonman Momentum.	Posted - 2006.12.07 17:40:00 - [48] Originally by: Hans Roaming I can't believe that things would go to pot so fast due to a couple of dreads shooting at a small POS, what about trying to shoot those dreads. They amassed a small fleet and tried just that; it was a fun fight. As one of the Momentum people who lost his ship in that fight, I'd just like to say it was very honourable that they fought for their systems instead of hide/log. *** Special thanks to Zurtur to making this signature for me
Tarminic	Posted - 2006.12.07 20:55:00 - [49] Fortunately for myself, I have been at the periphery of this political turmoil for the most part. No matter who owns the space, someone's gotta pod that veldspar, right? I used to be a member of a corporation with ChernoChiel, and my experience has been this; his loyalties run approximately as deep as his wallet. I, for one, have only sympathy for the members of Momentum who will eventually suffer for his actions, as I know several of them to be good, honest players. Farewell my friends, and may we again meet under better circumstances. ... Don't pop my hauler! It's true, I swear.
Commander Arwen Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.07 21:38:00 - [50] It's so sad to hear this. V was one of the nest alliances in game...

Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.15 15:22:00 - [51] A Huzzah & NOS History Lesson - from a CVA Perspective CVA and Huzzah go back a long way, indeed Huzzah even consulted with us before they setup in Providence. Over time we developed a reasonable working relationship as we shared much of the same anti-pirate / open space philosophy and often worked closely to keep traffic flowing through our section of Providence. Huzzah originally weren't particularly anti-Ushra'Khan (or pro-Amarr) but gradually fell more into our camp after a number of UK pilots proceeded to pirate them due to their affiliations to us. While Ushra'Khan were justified in doing that they did in the end make it harder for themselves as Huzzah became just as keen to shoot UK as we were. Anyway, over time Huzzah really started to grow huge under Han's leadership - eventually dwarfing CVA in size. Tensions began to grow between some CVA and Huzzah pilots at this time for a variety of reasons. These were related to CVA disapproval of some of the people Huzzah recruited (at one stage it seemed that simply anyone could join them), Huzzah's tactics (blob for the win) and the fact that Huzzah leadership began to focus on Catch - neglecting the security (we felt) of Providence. Despite these tensions we maintained our alliance although it was very much a mutual defence affair. We made it clear to Huzzah that we were not going to get pulled into their wars in Catch as it has always been our long term goal to consolidate and expand Amarrian influence in Providence and we also felt Catch attracted to much negative attention. Anyway, Huzzah eventually did succeed in attracting too much attention and lacked in heavy duty capital support when their allies Stain-Alliance eventually collapsed under pressure from BoB & FIX (they had originally pushed FIX out of Catch in conjunction with SA/IAC if I remember correctly). Huzzah fractured with a whole host of their best combat pilots heading deeper into 0.0 creating the No Quarter Corp which became part of Axiom Empire. (It was these pilots - along with CVA forces - which assisted IAC when it was attacked by McFIX recently). Those Huzzah that had always been more 'Providence' focused established NOS alliance and for a couple of months they and CVA got on absolutely famously. Indeed some of the by now experienced NOS PvP corps really worked very closely (and well) with CVA and got a lot of internal kudos from CVA (whereas Huzzah was often being slagged off internally for their poor PvP capabilities). We even set up new 'closer' comms channels with NOS at this time - something we never did with Huzzah. Anyway, after a while the 'better' element of NOS (primarily Widomakers corp) simply got bored and wanted to stretch their wings. They formed (or joined) Momentum (MoM) (I can't remember which) and headed up North. Unfortunately, what they left behind was lacking in quality and moral-fibre. Anti-pirate support from new NOS virtually dried up completely, as did intel on enemy movements and general communications. Our frustration with new NOS started to rise and reached a boiling point when we realised that NOS had accepted a whole raft of blatant macro corps into their ranks. As usual we tried diplomacy to sort out the 'macro' issue but new NOS leader (Jade Badger) took a completely beligerent attitude towards these negotiations - initially demanding two weeks to remove the macroers and then disrespectfully refusing to talk to Sidyous (the CVA leader) on the grounds that (new) NOS was being bullied. You may recall a post on the Alliance and Discussion forums from me at that time stating clearly what our policy towards macroers was. We did this to ensure that if we did have to end up shooting NOS then the wider community would understand why. (Continued...) ------------------------------ Blog's back - for now Signature removed due to incorrect size (400X120px and 24000 bytes). Please review the forum rules or e-mail us with any questions. You can view you signature here - Petwraith
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.15 15:30:00 - [52] Continued Anyway, NOS did eventually agree to remove the macroers within 24hrs and to give them credit they did. However, the macroers proceeded to shoot at some neutrals in our area and were put on immediate KOS. There was an internal CVA miscommunication at this time which gave NOS leaders the impression that we had broken the 24hr agreement for no reason (which was not the case). Jade Badger in a fit of pique notified us that he was going to talk to UK about agreeing a NAP with them. As you would expect this didn't go down to well in CVA circles - especially as we spent so much of our time protecting NOS pilots and keeping the spacelanes in Providence open. While we were **ed off with this decision we decided not to take any action - after all we do allow all neutrals (even non-participating friends of Ushra'Khan) to fly in our space as long as they respect our anti-pirate rules and NOS was no different at this stage. Needless to say our relations with 'new' NOS were at a very low point and this wasn't helped by some spats between CVA members and NOS members in some of the general shared anti-pirate info channels that exist. Relations deteriorated even further when CVA discovered that NOS (at the apparent request of ASCN for some reason ) was allowing LV (a long term CVA pew-pew dancing partner) to construct a staging POS in their space (we were told this was because LV were going to use it to assist ASCN against BoB but have no idea on the truth of this claim). This immediately provoked a number of CVA pilots to demand military action against NOS (/emote waves at Garreck) however the alliance as a whole did not agree with this. What we did agree was that we would remove NOS from our Providence intel channels and deny them access to favourable ship/equipment deals which we had always offered to Huzzah and 'old' NOS. I had even drafted a 'galnet' statement to that effect and we were preparing to issue it publicly when 'events' took a hand. Momentum (with many members of old NOS) informed us that they were coming back to Providence to 'sort-out' new NOS. Apparently they were ed off with how their legacy had been abused and wanted to put NOS back on the straight and narrow and restore their relations with the CVA. We did not ask them to do this - in fact it was a surprise to us when it happened. As Momentum (who have pirated in the North) agreed to abide by our rules of behaviour whilst in Providence and to only conduct their campaign against NOS (and none of the other neutrals in the area) we agreed that they could pass through our space without hostility. The rather one sided war which followed (MoM completed routed NOS in a couple of days) resulted in the removal of the 'anti-CVA' NOS leadership and its replacement with rather more reasonable directors. As soon as the war was over MoM left Providence. I wouldn't say that our relationship with NOS now is a strong as it used to be with Huzzah and 'old' NOS but it is moving in the right direction and communication lines are open. I am sure some people will no doubt disagree with the above but as the title stated this was written from a CVA perspective and these sorts of things are always subjective. Nevertheless I hope it gives some of you an insight into the politics of a small corner of this galaxy called EVE Amarr Victor** ------------------------------ Blog's back - for now Signature removed due to incorrect size (400X120px and 24000 bytes). Please review the forum rules or e-mail us with any questions. You can view you signature here - Petwraith
Valeri Tempest	Posted - 2006.12.15 17:41:00 - [53] Edited by: Valeri Tempest on 15/12/2006 17:43:48 actually your assertion that MOM acted only against NOS is false they have become pirates and menaces of any and all they come across on there way through, so you are in effect allowing pirates free reign through your space into providence, and some speculate that you are supporting them financially.
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.15 18:08:00 - [54] Edited by: Hardin on 15/12/2006 18:09:45 Absolute nonsense which has been dealt with on these forums already... and MoM havent really been in Providence since they dealt with NOS anyway so how they could be spreading terror there? So as others have said before - Proof or stfu! BTW - I thought you had to show your corp and alliance names when posting on these forums? ------------------------------ Blog's back - for now Signature removed due to incorrect size (400X120px and 24000 bytes). Please review the forum rules or e-mail us with any questions. You can view you signature here - Petwraith
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.12.16 08:20:00 - [55] Originally by: Valeri Tempest Edited by: Valeri Tempest on 15/12/2006 17:43:48 actually your assertion that MOM acted only against NOS is false they have become pirates and menaces of any and all they come across on there way through, so you are in effect allowing pirates free reign through your space into providence, and some speculate that you are supporting them financially. Alts don't have opinions. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Ronin Bloodangel Minmatar Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.16 19:19:00 - [56] Edited by: Ronin Bloodangel on 16/12/2006 19:21:07 Quote: LV turned to NOS looking for an alternate jump route into Empire. Did they give you any reason why?


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