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Dukath
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Posted - 2003.11.18 19:02:00 -
[1]
As it seems now the collision model is based on speed. So if 2 slow ships collide they get a mild pushback, however if a very fast ship collides then the slow ship gets a huge boost in speed. This can happen if 2 ships leave warp at the same point, one ship will get throws away with speeds exceeding 2km/s.
The same happens when a frigate hits a ship, even a battleship. Since the frigate is usually fast a frigate can easily push away a heavy industrial or a battleship.
And finally it also explains the heavy pushback done by missiles. Since missiles go really fast they easily push a battleship from 0 to 300m/s in one hit.
So the obvious solution is adding mass. Get the mass of both objects and use that to determine how much of the force is applied to each ship. 2 battleships colliding would have almost the same mass so they would get pushed back almost equally. But a frigate would get pushed away by a heavy industrial while the reverse would not work. And with mass included the silly effect of having a missile pushing a battleship around as if it was made of paper would be gone.
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Scal Hart
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Posted - 2003.11.19 09:31:00 -
[2]
*thinks about his battleship or industrial dodging gangmates drones*
Yeah, mass is definately a good idea. Adds some realism.
There are more things in heaven and earth,
than are dreamt of in your philosophy. |
voogru
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Posted - 2003.11.19 10:04:00 -
[3]
Edited by: voogru on 19/11/2003 10:14:52
Your forgetting one thing.
Were all in space, and everything is wieghtless.
If small bolt in space was to hit a $250,000,000 satellite, the satellite would be shattered, despite it bing much larger than a small bolt.
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Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes Guardian Enforcer, wrecking for 827.3 damage. |
Deros
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Posted - 2003.11.19 10:24:00 -
[4]
you hit the key point there, everything is WEIGHTless, not MASSless
everything has mass in space on a planet wherever.
WEIGHT is MASS * Gravitational field strength.
Objects have differing weights dependant on their distance from gravitational field centres, however WEIGHT has NOTHING to do with collisions.
the formula for momentum (which is what this discussion is about)
is (m1*u1)+(m2*u2)=(m1*v1)+(m2*v2)
m= mass
u= initial speed (before impact)
v= final speed (after impact)
at the moment momentum does not seem to be conserved, should it be, the problems with missiles, drones, ships and all collisions should be better :)
Deros
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BigB
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Posted - 2003.11.19 10:41:00 -
[5]
basically if the bolt hits a saltellite it moves the satelite but only makes it accelerate at a very small amount
if the satleite hit the bolt, the bolt would go flying
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http://www.freewebs.com/bigb_home/ |
Deros
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Posted - 2003.11.19 10:47:00 -
[6]
exactly
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Wren
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Posted - 2003.11.19 12:19:00 -
[7]
Plus, if the bolt was going very very very slow, like barely pushed, the bolt would not even hurt the satellite. However, even a very very slow moving satellite would definately move a bolt.
Also, realistically, once you go X fast in space, you keep going that fast until you apply negative thrust. So when we issue the command to "stop my ship" we should see boosters on the front of the ship slow it down, not the engines go dim. However, I wouldn't want to factor in vectors just to mine roids. So yeah, if they add mass, then we wouldn't see the just out of warp 'bump' that sends a guy many AU's from thier starting point... well, unless it was a BS hitting a shuttle or pod... yipes.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2003.11.19 18:10:00 -
[8]
Yes, it would make sense for collision mechanics to be based on momentum rather than speed; but when considering missiles, you've got to bear in mind that there is explosive force as well as just the speed the thing is moving. An exploding missile should still blow a ship backwards, but probably not by as much as it does currently.
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"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Eisha
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Posted - 2003.11.19 19:11:00 -
[9]
Good call Dukath!
"There is a ***** in everything,
thats how the light gets in." -Lenord Cohen |
Dukath
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Posted - 2003.11.19 19:22:00 -
[10]
 Quote:
Yes, it would make sense for collision mechanics to be based on momentum rather than speed; but when considering missiles, you've got to bear in mind that there is explosive force as well as just the speed the thing is moving. An exploding missile should still blow a ship backwards, but probably not by as much as it does currently.
Hmm i always thought that the main cause for pushback by explosions was actually air compressed by the explosion. In space there is no atmosphere so the explosion would have a much less effect.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2003.11.19 23:05:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Hmm i always thought that the main cause for pushback by explosions was actually air compressed by the explosion. In space there is no atmosphere so the explosion would have a much less effect.
But if you open that can of worms, you've got to explain how missiles can even do any damage unless they actually collide with the target, let alone do splash damage to everything in a given range. Bad enough trying to inject one lot of realism in the momentum changes; don't overdo it 
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"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Tarfu
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Posted - 2003.11.20 04:38:00 -
[12]
Ahh but renember missiles explode becuase of an explosive warhead. Traditional explosives are simply something burning very quickly. So fast as to push other gasses or materials out of the way. In space the explosive would provide its own gas to cause a shockwave with, although it would dissapaate very quickly but not so quickly as to prevent damage being caused to what it explodes against.
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Si vis pacem para bellum - If you want peace, prepare for war. |
Xailia
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Posted - 2003.11.20 04:46:00 -
[13]
Missiles shouldn't do as much pushback as they do. Because there are no thrusters bringing your ship to a stop, I would assume there is some sort of gravimetric breaking system on ships, which stops the ship. Thus if a ship was stopped, the gravimetric breaking system should be still engaged for safety reasons. So a missile should not make you ship fly all over the place, unless your gravimetric breaking system is very weak (currently calculated in some way using the agility attribute, which is what currently controls breaking velocity)
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel." |
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