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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Nathan Grey Gallente Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels	Posted - 2006.12.11 12:48:00 - [31] I can see the +damage rigs being useful for alpha strikes, elsewise it's just for fun. I'm looking forwards to the drone mining augmentor. Once rigs get cheap, it'll be extra mining throughput on my Vexor, which gets 450/min off the drones already. The "freebie" rigs, the electronic and energy gri ones, are going to be very popular for the straight bonuses they get. I can see those being on everyone's ship, prices and supplies allowing. ---------------------------------- Industrialist. I build it. You buy it. You break it and buy another one. Market domination through ingue ferrogue. (I did this and could have stopped it.)
Agemmemnon	Posted - 2006.12.11 14:43:00 - [32] Rigs are the new fourth slot. This makes balancing your ships setup harder for PVE and PVP but you still can't have it both ways. Also remember T2 rigs will be the next big thing in Eve Age I bring thee Pax
Allihence	Posted - 2006.12.15 04:31:00 - [33] When i first saw the rigs, I thought that the cap recharger and cap extender rigs were by far the best bet -- perhaps that is simply because of how I play -- I'm Amarr, with eight lasers, and making frequent use of my afterburner and running a large armor rep. Plus the cap rigs have no penalties, which means no wasted time building skills to reduce penalties. If I had three cap rechargers (the materials to build a cap extender rig are double that of a recharger for some reason, though it seems like they would have nearly the same benefit for a ship) then it would free up a mid slot that I usually use for cap, which I could replace with a webber for faster enemies or if I'm fighting battleships I could switch that out and probably have enough cap to run a shield booster or a second armor rep. Am I thinking this way just because I'm Amarr, or am I missing something here? There's no stacking penalties for cap rechargers, right? Now that I think about it, it seems like three cap rigs wouldn't be much of a benefit when I'm fighting the easier enemies, but would be such a huge benefit against harder missions or PvP where I need to take and repair lots of damage, or make constant use of my afterburner, that it's more than worth it to max out my cap.
Rasta Farian Rasta Tropical Club	Posted - 2006.12.15 05:06:00 - [34] Can someone more mathmaticaly smart then me explain me which and why are better : -15% recharge rate +15% extra capacitor Thamks
franny Phoenix Knights	Posted - 2006.12.15 05:19:00 - [35] my helios WANTS the scan probe rig(gravity capacitor) it told me that repeatedly today, both ship scanning and exploration scanning my domi wants a cap recharge one my arazu the decloak bonus ones(I want to test em on SISI 1st but I always seem try to log on as the server comes down) I want some expanded cargo ones too, i'm sure my Occ would like they CEO - PKKP Recruitment
Liquid Vision Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.15 05:23:00 - [36] I think the shield resistance rigs will be useful. Every shield tanker could use some more EM protection and if you fly a Raven your sig is already huge anyway so that penalty isn't too terrible. Also, there's one Shield Rig that takes increases your shield recharge rate by 20%. That's niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice. Other than that, definitely the cap rigs will be sweet. Too bad you can only fit 3 rigs on your ship. Seems weird that a BS only gets 3 rig spots while a frigate gets the same. You'd think bigger ships would have more room for more rigs. Maybe that'd make things too unfair or something.... Give me my damn picture already!
Allihence	Posted - 2006.12.15 08:06:00 - [37] Originally by: Rasta Farian Can someone more mathmaticaly smart then me explain me which and why are better : -15% recharge rate +15% extra capacitor Thamks I'm wondering the exact same thing. The cap extender rigs take twice the materials to build, which lead me to believe they might be better, but I'm not good enough at math to see how. Although when you fit the extenders, they should give a 15% bonus to current capacity, so your bonus grows with each one you fit. The rechargers give -15% of your current recharge time, so each one you fit gives you less of a bonus. And when you fit a cap extender, you now have a higher capacity, but your recharge time stays the same, so your recharge rate has actually gone up. And with the extenders it seems like it would be safer if someone attacked you with energy vampires because you'd be at full capacity and it would take longer for them to drain you. These are my theories as to why the extenders are better than the rechargers, but I've never actually tried these rigs, so I could easily be overlooking or misunderstanding something. I was hoping someone could confirm or deny my theories.
Tyler Lowe Minmatar DROW Org	Posted - 2006.12.15 09:01:00 - [38] On the cap recharge thing: As far as I know, rigs of the same type are stacking penalized, so in order to fit 3 cap rigs and recieve maximum benefit, you're looking at 1 +15% amount and 2 -15% regen time. The amount bonus is a straight forward +15%, the regen mods are 1/.85, and then 1/.8695. The first regen rig should grant a 17.64% increase in cap per second, while the second grants a 15% increase in cap per second. A third cap regen rig would grant only a 1/.937 increase or a 6.7% increase in cap per second. The other rigs that stand out for me, aside from the obvious cap rigs, are falloff, rep time reduction, mass reduction (a very effective boost to afterburner/mwd), optimal increases, missile explosion radius and also velocity bonus ( Drake mounting Heavy Assault missiles anyone?). There are plenty of other rigs that are situationally great. The electronics superiority rigs come to mind for E-war ships. Pretty much any module on your ship that you could replace with half of the module's granted bonuses without losing much is a candidate. Rigs are not just an "extra" slot. They have the potential to free up 2 or even 3 modules on some setups. J.A.F.O.
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2006.12.15 09:17:00 - [39] capacitor bonuses are not stacking nerfed
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.12.15 09:39:00 - [40] Cap amount bonus is not stacking nerfed. Cap recharge time reduction is not stacking nerfed. Also, reduced efficiency of multiple cap recharge time reducers is a common misconception. Here's some math. Assuming a ship with 1000 cap and 200 sec recharge time. Base recharge is 5 average, 12.5 peak. One recharge rig: -15% New values: 1000 cap in 170 seconds. Recharge is now 5.882 average, 14.706 peak. 5.882 / 0.05 = 117.64 This means that if you set 5 cap/sec as 100%, after the rig has been applied your cap recharge is at 117.64%. Second recharge rig: -15% again New values: 1000 cap in 144.5 seconds. Recharges are now 6.920 average, 17.301 peak. 6.920 / 0.05882 = 117.64 This means that if you set 5.882 cap/sec (the value with one rig) as 100%, after the second rig has been applied your cap recharge is at 117.64%. This means: the second rig gives exactly the same increase in cap recharge as the first one. Yes, it removes less seconds from the number, but that is only because the number is smaller to start with. A repeated percentual increase or decrease will always yield in the exact same repeated benefits or drawbacks. Now, let's compare one capacitor amount rig with one capacitor recharge rig. +15% capacitor amount, no recharge time reducton New values: 1150 cap in 200 seconds. Recharge times are now 5.75 average, 14.375 peak. If you look a little ways up, you will see that this is nearly identical to the benefits of a 15% recharge time reduction. However, you have the added benefit of having more cap to spend, and additionally (given a not too rapid drain on the cap) it will take much longer for your cap to 'break', i.e. fall below 33% where the recharge rate begins to decrease ("buffer factor"). Thus the capacitor amount rig is slightly superior. Not enough to justify double the build cost, but still slightly superior. Result: you will get more peak recharge with recharge time reducers, but only a trivial amount more than with capacitor amount bonus rigs. Choose your combination as you see fit, but do not underestimate either of them. If you want to compare specific combinations you can easily use the math as demonstrated above.

Theron Gyrow Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.12.15 09:45:00 - [41] Well, cap recharge time rigs give 17.6% better can recharge rate (1/0.85 = 1.176), and the +15% cap gives that 15% to cap recharge rate plus more cap buffer. If you need lots of cap in a short time, the +15% cap is better, if you hover for a long time at around 25-50% cap, the -15% recharge is better. -- NMTZ forum
Allihence	Posted - 2006.12.15 14:33:00 - [42] Wow thanks for the in-depth answers. I have a much clearer understanding now. I think I might splurge on one or two of the extenders for a little of that extra safety buffer, and finish off my rig slots with the rechargers.
Viktoria Maher	Posted - 2006.12.19 01:36:00 - [43] Indeed, quite a bit of good information in this thread.
Bellatrix VanFeldt	Posted - 2006.12.19 02:28:00 - [44] Originally by: Rasta Farian Can someone more mathmaticaly smart then me explain me which and why are better : -15% recharge rate +15% extra capacitor Thamks -15% recharge rate is really recharge time. The actual rate (charge/time) is 1/(100%-15%), or 100%+17.6%. For T2 items it's 1/(100%-20%) = 100%+25% So the recharge rig is a better option for peak cap rate but the extra cap will allow you to run while being overnossed for a longer period, store up extra energy from your enemy, etc.
Malena Perpetual Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.19 05:35:00 - [45] I would like to point out to everyone doing the math that the rig description and attributes do not show fifteen PERCENT, but just FIFTEEN. Other rigs show percentages. One other shows a straight number the powergrid rig, which says +10. This makes a very big difference for the cap rig, (almost into "why would you use this?" and pushes the grid one into frig and int territory.
Kate Nexus	Posted - 2006.12.19 08:06:00 - [46] you forgot the electronics rig that reduces scan time t1 scanning frig can fit 2 of them, with frig V it will maybe make it scan faster than a non-rigged cov ops with level 4 trained and almost as fast as one with level 5 trained (but cov ops can fit 2 of them also)
Bekador Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.19 08:31:00 - [47] Originally by: Malena I would like to point out to everyone doing the math that the rig description and attributes do not show fifteen PERCENT, but just FIFTEEN. Other rigs show percentages. One other shows a straight number the powergrid rig, which says +10. This makes a very big difference for the cap rig, (almost into "why would you use this?" and pushes the grid one into frig and int territory. Tested: Cap recharge time is -15%, my mission apoc is tripple cap rigged now and her cap is 9k/222,7 s = 40,41 base recharge= 101,03 cap/sec at peak. No problem in running a dual LAR II setup with AB II and all lasers loaded with Gamma. Lvl 4 Mission behavior changed from fleeing to "warp in, align, turn both repper on, start shooting"
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.19 08:43:00 - [48] Originally by: Captain Raynor I've still not seen a single good reason to use the rof/dmg rigs, the increased grid/cpu is also a coffin nailer. It's rather fun on a HAM caracal, assuming the rigs ever get anywhere near sensible in price.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:59:00 - [49] Falloff is the minmatar main rig. AC boats usually have spare PG and need any fallof they can muster. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Malena Perpetual Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:56:00 - [50] Edited by: Malena on 19/12/2006 15:03:34 Originally by: Bekador Originally by: Malena I would like to point out to everyone doing the math that the rig description and attributes do not show fifteen PERCENT, but just FIFTEEN. Other rigs show percentages. One other shows a straight number the powergrid rig, which says +10. This makes a very big difference for the cap rig, (almost into "why would you use this?" and pushes the grid one into frig and int territory. Tested: Cap recharge time is -15%, my mission apoc is tripple cap rigged now and her cap is 9k/222,7 s = 40,41 base recharge= 101,03 cap/sec at peak. No problem in running a dual LAR II setup with AB II and all lasers loaded with Gamma. Lvl 4 Mission behavior changed from fleeing to "warp in, align, turn both repper on, start shooting" So you did the math with the first one and it was actually 15 percent off the cap recharge time, not just 15 seconds off? Or did your total cap recharge time start at 146 seconds before all three? I hope you are right, I just want to make certain before I spend my salvage parts on the rig that it is going to do what I think it is.



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