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are the Devs, Pirate and Low Sec Biased

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Merchantigus Minmatar Riot Zone	Posted - 2006.12.07 06:03:00 - [91] Edited by: Merchantigus on 07/12/2006 06:13:57 "and if this were a PvP only game the devs would have not put in the mission running system... so get off your PvP or get out of EVE 'Bull' if the Devs wanted you for their marketing dept they would pay you" Eve has been a pvp game from the start. they only added high sec before it went live because the player economy wasn't in place yet and needed a sector to grow in before it spread to low sec and .0 eve is a pvp game if this bothers you go play wow. i'd read the rest of this post and make a huge well thought out responce but i'd lose far to many brain cells in the process "then tell me... why is there concord and why are they set to react the way they do in sectors higher than .4... you are incorrect that this is a PvE in a PvP game... it is a PvE game with PvP opportunities... otherwise all rules would in 1.0 and .9 systems... the rest would be 0.0... get off of it... your post does not hold water sorry" in their original vision it was all .0 see above A better question would be if this was ment to be a pvp game why can you still target and attack people in concord protected space? if you want to do nothing but run missions and mine in high sec you are welcome to it but you are missing out on the main experiance of eve. enjoy trying to turn eve into wow edit i'm never in high sec but if they can pop in your mission and wtf pwn you and run off with all the loot right as you hit the end of it i'd have to agree this is a bit ***. if it works like the rest of high sec but now they can find you however i don't see a problem. "When still up after 30 hours you are type this good you will not mmhmhmmhmmm."
Deikan Frost Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.07 06:45:00 - [92] Originally by: Merchantigus Eve has been a pvp game from the start. they only added high sec before it went live because the player economy wasn't in place yet and needed a sector to grow in before it spread to low sec and .0 eve is a pvp game if this bothers you go play wow. The beta was over 2 years ago (that's it right?). What counts is not what was in the beta, it's what was kept and added after, so you can't base your opinion on "what was supposed to be" because it was in the beta and they changed it. A beta is there for that reason: To try stuff and see if it works or not. I was in the beta myself (not as this char though) and I saw the evolution of 0.0 to high-sec to gate sentries, to Concord etc... If CCP had wanted this game to be nothing but a big PvP fest, they wouldn't have added all that security system, and they wouldn't have kept working on it all those years until today. So please stop claiming EVE is just PvP, cause it's not. It's a LOT more than that. Take away the high Security systems, the market and the player-run economy, the manufacturing, the research and all the agents and then yes, it would be a PvP only... But it's not. The devs said it before, this game is meant to satisfy all playstyles, and it's not dedicated to one more than another.
Ridley Tree Crimson Knights Trade Federation	Posted - 2006.12.07 07:20:00 - [93] Edited by: Ridley Tree on 07/12/2006 07:20:07 Originally by: Deikan Frost The beta was over 2 years ago (that's it right?). What counts is not what was in the beta, it's what was kept and added after, so you can't base your opinion on "what was supposed to be" because it was in the beta and they changed it. A beta is there for that reason: To try stuff and see if it works or not. I was in the beta myself (not as this char though) and I saw the evolution of 0.0 to high-sec to gate sentries, to Concord etc... If CCP had wanted this game to be nothing but a big PvP fest, they wouldn't have added all that security system, and they wouldn't have kept working on it all those years until today. So please stop claiming EVE is just PvP, cause it's not. It's a LOT more than that. Take away the high Security systems, the market and the player-run economy, the manufacturing, the research and all the agents and then yes, it would be a PvP only... But it's not. The devs said it before, this game is meant to satisfy all playstyles, and it's not dedicated to one more than another. The market, the player-run economy, manufacturing, research are all PVP. The only thing that is not PVP at all is Missions really, and they just got turned into PVP. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hellown Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.07 07:29:00 - [94] Edited by: Hellown on 07/12/2006 07:31:39 oh my god, this is what the 15th mission runner whining since the kali patch? CRY MORE CAREBEAR. Eve is a PVP game, and its damn good for that. You should try it sometime maybe? or i suppose your to worried about losing your ship? thanks that is all. Shinra, the good guys.
Apolluon	Posted - 2006.12.07 07:35:00 - [95] Petition it. Mission loot (not natural NPC loot) dropped in a mission dungeon by special mission NPCs is owned by the player whose mission the NPC was spawned for. Clear enough? Because it's in the Q&A. Apolluon
Ishan Shade	Posted - 2006.12.07 07:40:00 - [96] Edited by: Ishan Shade on 07/12/2006 07:40:49 Originally by: Deikan Frost Edited by: Deikan Frost on 07/12/2006 00:33:10 I'm 100% sure that the devs didn't intend for pirates to start hunting down mission runners to steal their critical loot and "ransom" it for millions. That goes against the entire mission reward system. I'm also 100% sure that the devs never intended to make it possible to "suicide gank" either, but that since it's such a delicate thing to balance and fix, they still haven't found a way to prevent it. I will continue to believe this until I see a dev specifically contradicting those 2 points. Originally by: oveur Two things to take into consideration here, you are supposed to be able to scan out people, whether they are doing missions, mining or hiding. On the other hand, it's not supposed to be too easy to find everyone. TomB is looking into the scanner balancing specifically around this, let's see what his findings are. Senior Producer EVE Online And the devs said multiple time that is perfectly legal to kill someone in high-sec, at the penalty of losing your ship. Dodging concord however is not allowed. I can't be arsed to find a specific post from the devs, but you have this game backwards my friend.
DropZone 187	Posted - 2006.12.07 09:59:00 - [97] Prior to kali I was one of the crowd pointing out the poor risk vs reward ratio mission runners enjoyed. As with many others, we recommended pushing out the level 4 agents to 0.0 which would provide a balanced risk/reward system for runners as well as content for 0.0 citizens. Needless to say, we got something far better. Now all that is required is to scope out a mission runner, hit his 'boss' and put the mission specific loot in a can. If they want it, they can take it and feel the wrath that they have been avoiding for far too long a time. You had long enough time to carebear. Do like the piwats and adapt. If not, feel free to leave as the impact on CCP is minimal. Sure you may have hoards of mission runners but compared to the major alliances, your playerbase pales in comparison. In fact, many, if not the majority of the mission running playerbase are alliance alts, so really the impact of losing the solo carebears is mute. Second to this is the fact that solo mission runners drain more system resources, especially in empire, which is why CCP has been warning you carebears for a while now to get into the game by promoting the 'migration to 0.0'. Since you wouldn't head their warnings, they have now given the capability to the playerbase of the Eve community (for which carebear mission runners are an insignificant part) to remediate by forcing you to move outside of heavily trafficed systems. Quite frankly it is brilliant on the part of CCP, which makes this game so great. No where has CCP stated that they cater to carebears and in fact they have stated quite the opposite - it is a PvP based system. So deal with it and move on. Many won't agree, but who cares. It is a PvP game. You don't like it, go back to WoW where you belong wacking worms and tadpoles. Anyhow, if you all claim you are going to leave in droves, lets see it happen. At least then those of us in alliances that are fully committed to the game with multiple alts for which CCP should be cattering to will be able to have our massive fleet battles from the freed up system resources carebearing mission runners currently abuse. As well, now lofty has a cool new toy.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.07 10:09:00 - [98] Originally by: DropZone 187 Prior to kali I was one of the crowd pointing out the poor risk vs reward ratio mission runners enjoyed. As with many others, we recommended pushing out the level 4 agents to 0.0 which would provide a balanced risk/reward system for runners as well as content for 0.0 citizens. You obviously know nothing about missions otherwise you'd know the risk vs reward for high sec missions is balanced. The risk vs reward for low sec missions was already broken and is now more so. If you knew anything about Eve you'd know this. Originally by: DropZone 187 Needless to say, we got something far better. Now all that is required is to scope out a mission runner, hit his 'boss' and put the mission specific loot in a can. If they want it, they can take it and feel the wrath that they have been avoiding for far too long a time. And you can't see how horribly broken this is? How sad. Originally by: DropZone 187 You had long enough time to carebear. Long enough to do what? Enjoy Eve in the manner that best suits them? Originally by: DropZone 187 Do like the piwats and adapt. Adapt to what? You're pirates, you're adapting by changing your tactics, not your playstyle. You were pirates before Kali and pirates after. You're asking the alledged "carebears" to change to be something completely different. Why should they have to adapt far, far, far more than you do? Originally by: DropZone 187 Quite frankly it is brilliant on the part of CCP, which makes this game so great. No where has CCP stated that they cater to carebears and in fact they have stated quite the opposite - it is a PvP based system. So deal with it and move on. A PvP based game does not mean that it is a "combat PvP" game and I don't believe CCP have said that Eve is such a game. I suggest that if you want to kill other players all day, you try counterstrike or some other game where the only PvP option is combat. Originally by: DropZone 187 Many won't agree, Of course they won't agree. Your definition of PvP is wrong in this context. Originally by: DropZone 187 but who cares. No one. Like so many before you, your argument is poorly thought out and pretty full of holes. You don't have an understanding of what you're complaining about. Originally by: DropZone 187 It is a PvP game. You don't like it, go back to WoW where you belong wacking worms and tadpoles. Its not a pure "combat PvP" game. If you don't like it, go back to CS where you belong whacking players and measuring e-peens.
Varis Jericho Fraction	Posted - 2006.12.07 10:32:00 - [99] Originally by: Sendraks Its not a pure "combat PvP" game. If you don't like it, go back to CS where you belong whacking players and measuring e-peens. no - but its competitive in all parts of the game. There should be nowhere that another player cannot "interfere" in some way.
Sendraks TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.07 10:59:00 - [100] Originally by: Varis There should be nowhere that another player cannot "interfere" in some way. I agree. However, this should ALWAYS be a two way. You interefere with someone and they can take some action to stop your interference. Right now this doesn't exist in high sec missions, where the interference is all one way. Therefore in terms of the overall game mechanics, it is broken.
DropZone 187	Posted - 2006.12.07 11:10:00 - [101] Just as before the patch, useless carebear mission runners speaking like they set the rules and thinking somehow they are the ones to determine playstyle in Eve. Hate to break it to you but CCP doesn't agree with you, hence the changes. Reality is, you are breaking the shard and this is just darwinism being allowed to run its course. We want to the game to be played as it was intended, i.e. to pew pew with people, not have them run around in 100% safety messing up the economy. Anyhow, looks to be here to stay. Judging by the other threads most solo mission runners have already ran back to empire from lowsec so let the culling begin. I wonder if a cnr salvages better than a npc wreck.....
Del369 Caldari Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.12.07 15:30:00 - [102] Point here is you pay your 15 or what ever it is every month, you have your choice of how to play the game, but other people pay their 15's and they should be able to play the game as they like, the devs being all yarry and cool, and devoid of the comprehension that with criminality goes punishment seem to miss these vital little points, for them it "seems" like in their boxer shorts explosions for all things piratey and yarry they just cant grasp the balancing punishment side of things. and seriously to try and tell people that their 15 entitles them to be victimised by the testosterone oozing lazy social delinquents is a tad rich, no ? basically, yes you should be able to scan oout mission runners in high sec (omg whats he saying ? ) well the second you warp into his mission you should be flagged and killable, then its up to the mission runners to be in a gang and call in the cavalry. but seriously your snivelling 15 should never give you the right to ruin other peoples style of play without the possibility of due consequence at least. now go grow a pube or something, damned ankle biters I want to die quietly in my sleep just like my dear old grandma, and not screaming in terror like her passengers!!
Gadfly Hawke G-Tek Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2006.12.07 18:00:00 - [103] Interesting discussion. At rock bottom, it seems to me that the question is, "Did CCP do this intentionally or accidentally?" If it was intentional, then it was probably to inspire some PvP combat with the mission runners. A second motivation may have been to discourage mission running, in the hopes of getting people away from that "safe" activity. If it was accidental, then they will do something to balance the griefer's advantage. Possibly flag those who interfere, possibly make scanning more difficult (although that seems unlikely), possibly flag the can that contains the loot necessary for completing the mission. In any case, if nothing is done to offer the mission runner relief, then you can figure that making scanning easier for mission griefers was intentional and well thought out for reasons that we may never understand. Stand by. Any change will probably be very soon; if not, there will probably not be any change. G-Tek is recruiting
ifeelit2 Gallente Just Cloned Again	Posted - 2006.12.07 18:18:00 - [104] Originally by: Hellown oh my god, this is what the 15th mission runner whining since the kali patch? CRY MORE CAREBEAR. Eve is a PVP game, and its damn good for that. You should try it sometime maybe? or i suppose your to worried about losing your ship? thanks that is all. The Only Appropriate Answer Just Cloned Again JCA Corp our webpage works on the in game browser
Hard Kandy	Posted - 2006.12.07 18:39:00 - [105] Hi all, I'm really new, I've been playing 4 days now so that makes me completely unqualified to talk about this, but I feel compelled to because it relates to the only thing I really know how to do so far, running missions. MMORGS and other games like EVE have to have consiquences. No one should be able to swoop in and take your mission and laugh at you, because you are unable to do anything back without getting slaughtered by concord. There has to be consiquences or recourse over these actions but there isn't right now from what people are saying. I doubt I will be able to fight off one experianced player, let alone some areas where I have been told entire fleets camp stargates. Inexperianced players need the opportunity to gather cash and resources without worrying about this - yet in 6 months time will I be capable of fighting off experianced players or fleets on my own? Unlikely. But maybe this is the reason why experianced players need to get together and go into low security space together? So aren't both sides of the argument right? If so, how do you make everyone happy? Does this make me a care
Ralkuth	Posted - 2006.12.07 18:45:00 - [106] I agree that the griefing is the worst thing. The fix that was put in for wrecks was a good answer to that particular problem. I think the mission change was put in deliberately to move people from missions to more "interactive" forms of gameplay. That's a bit shortsighted because I use the output of missions to do manufacturing, trade, etc. I don't think the end result (if it isn't changed) willbe anything they expected or want. Ralkuth
ifeelit2 Gallente Just Cloned Again	Posted - 2006.12.07 19:42:00 - [107] the whole point of all these rants in all these posts is... eve is not a one path game, PvP is not all there is, some do not want PvP, if you are complaining cuz you have fewer targets to shoot at look at yourself in the mirror cuz its you who have kept on the Devs to change things to make the game the way you wanted it, now you are interested in driving players from the game, hence all the PvP'ers telling the PvE'ers to leave.. well guess what, this game is advertised as a many path game... so stop telling people to leave because one day we all will and you will be alone and ccp will be bankrupt and you will have done your final act to kill the game... shut it down... there is a place for everyone and you have to let them do what they want.. not what you want... what if it went the other way and the dev's started killing the PvP portion... would you be happy? Just Cloned Again JCA Corp our webpage works on the in game browser
ifeelit2 Gallente Just Cloned Again	Posted - 2006.12.07 19:44:00 - [108] oh btw... i am really surprised this thread is still going... thx to all who have made it possible :) Just Cloned Again JCA Corp our webpage works on the in game browser
Pax Althaleen Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.07 21:09:00 - [109] Originally by: Sendraks Avon, I don't disagree with anything you've written above here, but for the issue at hand is irrelevant. The truth is that you cannot do anything about a player griefing you in a high sec mission unless they flag themselves to you in some way. Because you cannot interact with that other player then the whole purpose of this being a PvP/MMO game is gone. You cannot play versus that player because you cannot touch them. Therefore the game is "broken" at this point. You vaguely allude to the fact that you could shoot at them to stop them taking the loot, but then you would lose your ship to concord which throws the risk vs reward balance out the window for missions. The accepted risk for missions is the NPCs vs your fitting, not sacrificing your ship to Concord to stop someone taking the mission loot in order to avoid standing loss. Besides which, there is no guarantee that you will be able to return to the mission zone before they do and get the loot anyway. Either way, the game is "broken" right now, because it places all the onus of risk on the mission runner. /signed... Pax Althaleen Holder - House Althaleen
d'hofren Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.07 22:07:00 - [110] Linkage Eve was created by pvpers... sorry...
ifeelit2 Gallente Just Cloned Again	Posted - 2006.12.07 22:22:00 - [111] Originally by: d'hofren Linkage Eve was created by pvpers... sorry... When a player has mastered the basics of the game, aquired some money and equipment and advanced his or her character through basic skills, the possibilities become almost endless. Players who wish to explore peaceful paths may continue to upgrade their ships to bigger and better cargo vessels with high-end defenses, purchase advanced mining or research equipment and continue to develop their characters by specializing in their preferred skills. Others may elect to pursue a more dangerous path such as piracy, smuggling or bounty hunting. as advertised by CCP... sorry this is a multi level game it is not just PvP or PvE so get off it and play the game... Just Cloned Again JCA Corp our webpage works on the in game browser
ifeelit2 Gallente Just Cloned Again	Posted - 2006.12.07 22:30:00 - [112] I do want to make one thing clear... i am not against players who are pirates, nor am i against low sec players or PvP'ers as we all have a place in the game... what i am against is that SOME PvP'ers and Pirates are against people who have chosen to take a PvE path and want to force us into low sec so they can up their kills Just Cloned Again JCA Corp our webpage works on the in game browser

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