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Sedan Taragh
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Posted - 2006.12.07 10:40:00 -
[1]
I'm sure that i've overseen something - or do not understand it right, but
what's the use of Elite Frigates (i.e. Assault Ships) like the "Jaguar", "Wolf" etc.?
They need a bunch of hard to archieve skills (i.e. Frigate 5, Egnineering 5, Mechanic 5) and what you finally get is, roughly said, a "pimped" frigate?
If I spent the time learning that skills in something different I could fly a tough and fat cruiser instead of such a fragile thing....
Where is my error in reasoning?
Attention: This post isn't meant as trolling!
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Stelteck
Minmatar
FRENCH NAVY
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.07 11:05:00 -
[2]
Elite T2 frigates can be divided in two major types :
- Interceptors (Such as stiletto, claw).
Are the fastest and smallest ships in the game. Very hard to lock and aim with non specialized anti frigate ships.
Very useful to tackle and scramble ennemies.
- Assault ships. The assault ships are heavy combat frigates with two major points :
High resistance allowing them to resist a high amount of damage for a frigate.
Very heavy firepower. (For a frigate).
Interceptors are used everywhere in PVP to capture and scout targets.
Assault ships can be used for PVE missions 1/2/3, for 0.0 ratting in belt, and are very common in light pvp groups to provide heavy firepower while maintaining high speed and manoeuvrability.
Stelteck.
Tau ceti FEDERATION
F-NAVY
"Brakes are for cowards" |
Ras Blumin
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.12.07 11:56:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Ras Blumin on 07/12/2006 11:58:14
 Originally by: Stelteck
Elite T2 frigates can be divided in two major types :
- Interceptors.
- Assault ships.
There are also stealth bombers (cloak bonuses and can fit cruise launchers) and covert ops (can fit covert ops cloaks so they can warp while cloaked, used for getting intel and similar). They are not used as much as inties/AFs though.
Originally by: Stelteck
Assault ships ... are very common in light pvp groups to provide heavy firepower while maintaining high speed and manoeuvrability.
The part in bold is basicly what you pay for. It is mostly the same if you look at HAC vs battleship.
Afaik there are some missions that are more easily done by an AF than a cruiser, because of the low sig/high speed/high resists of the AF, but if I were to reroll myself a "carebear" now, I probably wouldn't bother with AFs at all.
edit - the only error in your reasoning is that AFs are not that fragile, but they will usually lose to a wellfit cruiser in a 1v1 :)
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Marine HK4861
Caldari
Seoltachd
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Posted - 2006.12.07 12:37:00 -
[4]
AFs aren't that fragile - a fully faction fitted one can pretty much outfight anything it can't outrun and outrun anything it can't outfight. 
One important point in EVE is that bigger isn't always better - while a battleship with big guns looks like the ideal ship to aim for, a single interceptor will be able tie you down and, barring drones and nosferatu, you won't be able to touch them.
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Insidi Us
Amarr
The Imperial Commonwealth
The Sundering
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Posted - 2006.12.07 16:02:00 -
[5]
Yeah, but good luck finding a PvP fitted ship without at least 1 Nos these days. Or the popularity of the nosinix and their uber drone skills. But drop an AF onto a cruiser mission runner in 0.4 and you'll have a good fight.
I did try out my corpmates wolf armor against my armageddon's radio crystals near optimal with my tachyons (he was sitting still too), and man that damage was embarassing! But he had it so tanked he was barely faster than me, so you reap what you sow.
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SpaceDrake Taleweaver
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Posted - 2006.12.07 17:07:00 -
[6]
Yeah, Assault Frigates are hardly "fragile". Well flown a good Assault Frig is more durable than a Tech 1 Cruiser. (Not to mention some of them have as much ARMOR as a cruiser...)
And I have to admit, "Engineering 5" being a hard skill to train makes me chuckle a bit.  *pets the newbie in the good way*
Try training Battleship 5. Then we'll talk about hellacious trains.
---
What good are actions if there's no one to tell the tale afterward?...
Former player of Andre Ricard (sold). Currently plays a Sekrit CharacterÖ. |
Billy Sastard
Amarr
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2006.12.07 17:54:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sedan Taragh
I'm sure that i've overseen something - or do not understand it right...
Yep you are not understanding it right...
Quote:
what's the use of Elite Frigates (i.e. Assault Ships) like the "Jaguar", "Wolf" etc.?
They need a bunch of hard to archieve skills (i.e. Frigate 5, Egnineering 5, Mechanic 5) and what you finally get is, roughly said, a "pimped" frigate?
Yep, you get a 'pimped' frigate, usually one with a specialised role...
Quote:
If I spent the time learning that skills in something different I could fly a tough and fat cruiser instead of such a fragile thing....
Yes those same skills will aid in your flying that cruiser, BUT the bonuses and stats of the ship are tailored to take advantage of those skills to a large degree. As has been sated by previous replys, a well set up Assault Frig is quite capable of taking on most, if not all, cruiser.
Quote:
Where is my error in reasoning?
Attention: This post isn't meant as trolling!
I think your error was in not fully researching the stats of the elite frigates and considering how the required skills would effect them. They are awesome machines and have very distinct roles in EVE, wether it be scout/fast tackler, cloaked intel gathering, or a hard hitting heavily armored small target for those large fleet encounters.
In addition to this, most, if not all of the skills you are required to obtain in order to fly the elite frigates will apply to all the ships you can fly and will enable you to be a better, more capable pilot in the long run. Not to mention that they are the first stepping stones to the larger elite ships such as HAC's and command ships.
-=^=-
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Simon Jax
Gallente
Freelancing Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.07 18:37:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sedan Taragh
They need a bunch of hard to archieve skills (i.e. Frigate 5, Egnineering 5, Mechanic 5) and what you finally get is, roughly said, a "pimped" frigate?
One thing of note here is that Engineering V and Mechanic V provide bonuses that apply to all ships. The same is true for all of the Elite (T2) frigate types. So you have to consider that while those skills needed for the "pimped" frigates are training intensive, they are at the same time skills you will likely want to have trained to level V anyway in the long run!
Plus, the ship-specific skills (Assault Frigate, Interceptors, etc.) apply to all races. So you once you have the (racial) Frigate V skill trained you're good to go with that races T2 frigates as well.
--Wherever you go, there you are. |
Guile D'Verde
Caldari
The Crescent Order
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Posted - 2006.12.07 19:07:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sedan Taragh
I'm sure that i've overseen something - or do not understand it right, but
what's the use of Elite Frigates (i.e. Assault Ships) like the "Jaguar", "Wolf" etc.?
They need a bunch of hard to archieve skills (i.e. Frigate 5, Egnineering 5, Mechanic 5) and what you finally get is, roughly said, a "pimped" frigate?
If I spent the time learning that skills in something different I could fly a tough and fat cruiser instead of such a fragile thing....
Where is my error in reasoning?
Attention: This post isn't meant as trolling!
As the others have said, tech 2 frigates are more for PVP. As a new player, you would be better off moving up to a cruiser way before a tech 2 frigate, in my opinion.
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Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2006.12.08 00:26:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Letouk Mernel on 08/12/2006 00:31:46
You're also missing the way EVE really works: what appear to be small bonuses end up being huge bonuses, if you compound everything properly.
Examples:
1. You're using 30 powergrid, and your ship has a maximum of 35. An armor module that would pretty much double your armor requires 6 grid. If you train Engineering 1 point, just 1, for only 5% bonus, that 35 grid becomes 36.75, allowing you to install that armor module, doubling your defenses.
2. A cruiser is "fat" indeed, compared to a frigate, and moves slowly. Where a cruiser will be hit by missiles and gunnery for full damage, a frigate, especially one with good navigation skills and top of the line afterburners will simply be hard to track. Half the shots miss, the other half do minimal damage. Frigate wins, even if the cruiser had more armor/defenses.
3. You're in a belt, and a pack of frigates pop in. You're clearly outnumbered, and initiate warp. They get within warp scramble range just as you had only 0.1 seconds before attaining warp speed. A minor agility module to give you that (minimal) 0.1 second bonus would have saved you the cost of the ship (millions).
The Tech 2 ships are "specialized", they offer some bonus in a very narrow area, but they are popular because people add skill bonuses and module bonuses to what the ship is specialized in, and together the whole thing becomes very very nice (long range ships being able to hit full force from 200km, fast ships that can lock you and jam you in under 1 second, electronic warfare setups that make your "max target locking range" be shorter than the size of your own ship, Tech 1 industrials that can carry only 5,000m3 according to the description, but have been enhanced to carry over 20,000m3 in reality, etc.).
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Vdub2002
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Posted - 2006.12.08 00:51:00 -
[11]
i was ratting in a .3 sec space in my myrm, when a inter came up and scrambled me... i got her armor down but she drained my cap... dude inter are freakin over powered >.< took forever to kill me tho but i couldnt fight back.
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GC13
Caldari
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.08 01:05:00 -
[12]
An interceptor drained the capacitor of a battlecruiser? Isn't that like... Against the law or something? Nosferatus (and stasis webifiers!) are the interceptor's natural predators in the wild.
--
Science and Industry guide
Eve and roleplaying games blog |
Vdub2002
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Posted - 2006.12.08 01:16:00 -
[13]
lol like i said im noob... only reason i had a BC cause of donations and running stuff around... i worked hard for it to be destroyed by a pirate... this is the begining of my anti-pirate career, i will be hunting pirates in a month
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Yakov Draken
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Posted - 2006.12.08 01:22:00 -
[14]
Seeing as the Elite/T2 Frigates are so tasty for pvp how viable is for a character preping for pvp to not bother with cruisers and plan to go from a T1 Frigate to T2 Frigate?
I like the idea of not spreading my skill points around between the ship types.
Cheers
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GC13
Caldari
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.08 01:29:00 -
[15]
Ah, I remember when I lost my... I can't remember if it was my second or third Ferox. Got chewed by a Thorax and a... I think it was a Claw (it was a Minmatar interceptor). I was looking for them (they had popped my buddy's Rupture), but didn't expect to find them waiting off their aggression counter at the first planet I encountered. I was so shocked I forgot to activate my nosferatus and my drones, which probably would have stomped the interceptor into oblivion.
I hope you had platinum insurance on your Myrmidon. I know I was glad that my Ferox was insured. 
Anyway, going straight to T2 frigates is plenty viable character-wise, though money-wise you'll be taking away a very cheap, effective PvP vessel from yourself.
--
Science and Industry guide
Eve and roleplaying games blog |
Noluck Ned
FATAL REVELATIONS
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.08 10:46:00 -
[16]
I have seen Assault frigates drop (poorly fitted and flown) Battleships.
Never ever underestimate them.
IMHO the pick of the bunch is the Jaguar, if you have good Nav skills its a scout/tacklers wet dream.
I love flying my ishkur, but you really need to know what ships you can and cant take down.
Basically, in most cases, if its a drone boat you will die. Watch out for NOS and webs.
Have fun.
F4T4L is Recruiting! |
Smagd
Encina Technologies
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.12.08 11:45:00 -
[17]
Good example of just how nice AFs can be was last saturday in the Alliance Tournaments (as seen on EVE TV):
The DeStInY vs. Edge of Insanity fight boiled down to a Megathron Battleship vs. Ishkur Assault frigate, both non-faction fitted, but very likely with nice skills and expensive implants.
Yes, the battleship did NOS the Assault Frig dry of its capacitor and on top of it webbed it, and everybody expected the Ishkur to die shortly like its 2 brethren, except after BOTH capacitors died the Megathron couldn't damage the Ishkur any more, and slowly and painfully the 2 Ishkur drones wittled away the battleship until it was under 20% hull, when the Ishkur was disqualified for running out of range.
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Sedan Taragh
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:04:00 -
[18]
Thanks for all the answers!
I realised that my fault was simply comparing isolated numbers, not putting everything into the right context. I just read "344 amor hp - how bad", but what should be read is "344 armor hp, very high speed and very low signature", for example....
Thanks again
Sedan
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Kiaara
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.12.18 06:47:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sedan Taragh
I'm sure that i've overseen something - or do not understand it right, but
what's the use of Elite Frigates (i.e. Assault Ships) like the "Jaguar", "Wolf" etc.?
They need a bunch of hard to archieve skills (i.e. Frigate 5, Egnineering 5, Mechanic 5) and what you finally get is, roughly said, a "pimped" frigate?
If I spent the time learning that skills in something different I could fly a tough and fat cruiser instead of such a fragile thing....
Where is my error in reasoning?
Attention: This post isn't meant as trolling!
Heeheehee!
*laughs*
*looks up*
*snickers some more*
Duel my "pimped" Assault Frigate in your "fat" cruiser and I'll show you why, hon. :p
MWD-circle you at 15km at 2-3km/s, pelting you with pewpew guns and swarming you with 5 light/med drones, my transversal + my small size + my sheer speed all reducing your damage, + T2 ship resists reducing damage further, + T2 ship damage bonuses = owie
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Zakthar Kadaj
Kernowtek
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Posted - 2006.12.18 12:37:00 -
[20]
hehe i personally love my enyo, fully t2 fitted, it's an awesome ship. Plus, with the rite skills, it has like 900 armour, and with my t2 rep, i can take on at least 10 low level frigs, and keep the tank going, mainly because of the resistances. Word of advice tho, don't get*****y, i lost an enyo once by going for a dominix, and forgetting to take out it's support, that was the end of that enyo.
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STUBBORN...WHAT OF IT!?! |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Aerial Boundaries Inc.
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.18 13:28:00 -
[21]
Inties are tacklers, AFs are target practice for cruisers.
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IBTL \o/
EVE is upside down!
WTZ+Slower Warp=Win |
Queen Hades
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Posted - 2006.12.18 13:49:00 -
[22]
I prefer my Enyo a lot over my Thorax for all kinds of business that has to do with weapons. Of course one needs a lot of other skills as well and small blaster / railgun specializiation 4 is a must have.
0.0 rats die to it's very weapons as well as the average wannabe - pirate (they often mistaken it for laughable matter).
Get one, try it and be happy. It is REALLY fun.
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