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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Mai Khumm
Toronto EVE Online
679
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Posted - 2015.08.13 19:51:00 -
[181] - Quote
Quote: If you have any Ideas or feedback, please add this to the forums here, as this input is a vital part of our ongoing development of EVE Online.
Capitals (Specifically Carriers, Not Supers/Dreads) in Highsec plz!
Limit the amount of drones that can be deployed and restrict Capital modules from being used in Highsec . (Like Bombs/Bubbles...etc)
Toronto EVE Thread!
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@Toronto_EVE
(ALT of CO-Host Azami Nevinyrall)
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Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort DARKNESS.
116
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Posted - 2015.08.13 19:54:41 -
[182] - Quote
Lu Ziffer wrote:Lets go a step back and inspect EVE a bit . We have a reaction drive on grid (Reality),we have a warp drive which is bending space to move between grids (Star Trek) and we have jumpdrive which is basicly an artifcial wormhole between systems(Battlestar Galactica). The missing fourth would be a a hyperdrive Star Wars style were the ship moves into a dimension which allows FTL travel due to changes in how physics behave but it is not instant just a lot faster like warp 9.9 Star Trek style. Lets say we change the standard drive of a capitalship to such a hyperdrive and make the jumpdrive a backup entirely intended to be used in extraordinary circumstances. Here we get to point my second quote. Lets say a ship traveled 5ly in 10minutes in hyperspace using fuel depleting its capacitor but it was able to update its position constantly so it gets no "jump fatigue" . Another ship did the same travel using its jumpdrive and reached its position instantly but the sensors have to reestabilish its position in the universe as such it gets "jump fatigue" which limits its sensors and makes it incapable to do another jump for some time also as it just ripped space time it takes a structure damage.
Basicly hyperdrive would be a option with one drawback, it takes time. Jumpdrive would have a few drawbacks the structure hit and as the sensors are already used for establishing its position a drawbak in locktime, tracking and anything remotely in contact with the sensor.
This option gets rid of the jump fatigue problem as there is another option to travel between systems but it keeps the tactical option of instant travel if needed
That sounds fairly interesting, but you would need to only allow null->null travel via say POS beacons. Reason I say that it insures the moving ship has some amount of control in destination system. IE- they are not transporting themselves and possibly several combat vessels directly into the heart of enemy territory unless a POS has already been onlined and beacon activated. Another reason relates to JFs making use of such a mechanic to transport themselves directly from HS to their staging system.
Another reason I find your idea interesting is that it steers the use of jump drives towards hot drops rather than daily travel. |
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
998
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Posted - 2015.08.13 19:58:02 -
[183] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Balance of Jump projection v's Gate projection v's Wormhole projection
Please bring back Wormhole projection. Just because PL put hundreds of man hours into something to create content doesn't mean it should have been nerfed.
"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."
U-MAD Membership Recruitment
PoH Corporation Recruitment
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Lu Ziffer
Jelly Baby Corporation Fidelas Constans
68
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Posted - 2015.08.13 20:21:31 -
[184] - Quote
Nasar Vyron wrote: That sounds fairly interesting, but you would need to only allow low/null->low/null travel via POS beacons. Reason I say that it insures the moving ship has some amount of control in destination system. IE- they are not transporting themselves and possibly several combat vessels directly into the heart of enemy territory unless a POS has already been onlined and beacon activated. Another reason relates to JFs making use of such a mechanic to transport themselves directly from HS to their staging system.
Another reason I find your idea interesting is that it steers the use of jump drives towards hot drops rather than daily travel.
EDIT- I also want to add that the feature should be disabled while a fatigue timer is active to prevent any cheese mechanics like jumping to an exit cyno then immediately activating your "hyper drive" to elude capture.
Good point. So lets get some values in the use of the jumpdrive should disable any FTL for 10minutes any movement for 1minute and combat capability for 2-5minutes. This would ensure that it does not get abused but is still a option to hotdrop.
Hyperdrivespeed should be around 05-1ly per minute and limited by fuel and capacitor consumption. The issue is to find a way to good way to choose the exit point because you would have to choose system and position in system without a cyno.
All of this could be influenced by skils, shiptype, modules and structures.
There was an idea of giving jumpdrives the capability to jump into a system without a cyno. This looks like a very powerfull feature but it could be compensated by giving it drawbacks like that the pilot can only choose the system but not the position in the system.
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Rheinkraft
Hax. Wrecked.
7
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Posted - 2015.08.13 20:23:21 -
[185] - Quote
This is my 11th year in Eve so I have seen many changes and generally been quite happy with what CCP have done over the years. I also don't normally post as as I cant see it ever masking a difference but I feel its time I did
I will not comment on the sov changes as I generally steer clear of sov at all costs, but I do recognize that there are issues with the current system. Two ideas I heard in the past that I thought was great: NPC Stations in all 0.0 / Depleting moon minerals...
I would however like to comment on the Phoebe jump changes and the affect that they have had on my personal play style. I was very 'pro' the changes put forward by Greyscale and understood fully that something had to be done to control force projection.
What concerned me at the time was the seemingly rushed changes and the speed and severity in which it was implemented. Pre-Phoebe I had 6 account and moved around freely enjoying what eve had to offer, as a roaming PVP group we used to travel all over eve looking for pew and taking in the sights and living from region to region. I am a family man and work hard to support said family so my time has always been reasonably limited.
Post-Phoebe I am down to 2 accounts and really struggling to keep up. Recently my corp moved to a new home, not a great distance but most certainly 2 days by traditional carrier jumps - gates are not an option due to the nature of the route. Now in all honesty this is not a major issue as my corp mates are epic and help to move my stuff and I am aware of 3rd parties I can pay to haul my personal stash, this did leave me behind for a few days and I missed an amazing battle because of it I have always been self sufficient in eve but I am no longer able to be so.
I also have a super, well now it is unsubbed because the thought of trying to move it makes me feel sick and quite frankly puts me off even considering it.
I feel that everything has become more of a chore, tedious almost. I went on a black ops roam the other day and ended up stuck in a hostile system with a 40 min timer I thought you know what, I cant be bothered with this and logged out.
So yeah, difficult to explain and I'm sure i haven't explained it very well, but Phoebe has had a big affect on the way I play or struggle to play as the case is now old fart. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2178
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Posted - 2015.08.13 20:24:39 -
[186] - Quote
I love jump fatigue.
It adds more strategy and stops alliances jumping on every little gang.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers Goonswarm Federation
188
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Posted - 2015.08.13 20:26:11 -
[187] - Quote
Jump Ranges to me should be adjusted
Carriers shifted to 5.5 au Super Capitals to 7 au Titans to 8 au Jump Freighters 10 au Rorqual 7 au Blops can remain how it is
I fully Believe those Big Behemoth ships should be able to outshoot smaller jump drives. For the Expensive of players purchasing them, the time invested in building them. The cutting edge technology they envelope. It should be able to move further than its smaller siblings.
If you want Nullsec to be these deepspace communities Logistics needs to be able to flow. The JF's need to be able to move and so do the Rorquals in your new Environment. The Rorqual alone is a Depressing investment these days and an entire conversation in its own. Nothing compared to how Titans and Super Capitals got its legs butchered out from under it. The Players got screwed big time over it. I never wanted to get into a coffin before.. I damn well don't want to now. Hell I didn't even bother training for a suitcase. -- Jump Fatigue should remain tied to a character. But the Fatigue part should be gone. Players should not suffer because they followed training plans that you laid out. They jumped into the ships you heavily promoted in advertising and used them everywhere just to be punished later on by their favorite company. Those players who Flew those Bad boys made you headlines on every major media network with the big fights. Now.. EVEs heard of in the media about as much as I am.
Get rid of the Term Fatigue.. keep it tied to the Character.. Make it a Flat hit 5 minutes or so. Have a countdown on the screen for "Drive recalibration" or something of the sorts. Every 5 minutes.. Players drives are re-attuned and able to reactivate the jump field. Call it what you want. Harmonizing. Field Calibrating. Set a Hard Cap X minutes before a player can Jump again with a Jump Drive. Players will NOT be able to scream across the universe to Dumpster into a fight as quickly still, But they also will not be punished for having to move from one area to another. If X player only has 4-5 hours to play the game a day due to family or work obligations.. it should not take a week for him to move from X to Y due to a mechanic. That or make Fatigue cooldown faster after the player is offline for X hours. Nerfing force projection is one thing. Nerfing an entire player base because of one group is another. -
Jump Bridges via POS's and SOV holders. These are already costing large and small alliance alike money to run, fuel to use, Fees to have active and time before it can be installed. These Bridges should always be in attunement with each other since they are in constant communication with each other. They are not jumping to a randomly lit cyno in the middle of nowhere. Let players move around the SOV you wanted them to move into freely. Let them reach these trade hubs you want them forming. Let them be able to have strategic value to cut off an enemy moving. These Bridges are Not throwing a fleet from Outer Passage to Period Basis in a matter of minutes. Let entities move around the territory they protect quickly. It helps Industrialists, it helps PVE and PVP. Players get to use, protect, and deliver goods and courier around making use of the space they hold.
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The Rorqual (speaking on an INDUSTRIAL USE only.. not the rare Battle Rorq) Burn the Clone vat Bay. In the current Meta of EVE you just made it even more useless. Anyone can now goto any station and make a jump clone, standings don't matter. Dock at NPC nullsec, pop a clone. Land in Lowsec... Pop a clone. Get rid of the Clone vat bay.
Boost the Rorquals Effectiveness compared to the Orca. Currently its more effective and cheaper to hold a Orca on field vs a Rorqual. While Active the rorqual does beat the Orca.. but only as a booster. A pos Compresses (which the rorq sits in.. same as the orca...) Due to the current Meta of EVE.. the rorqual is POS eye Candy. A Expensive Eye Candy in relation to an Orca.
Give it a Bonus to Warfare links undeployed of 5%. Keep the Deployed bonus at 10% or boost it to 15% deployed.
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You guys want to see players moving around, ships being used. Less AFK and more activity. With the new mechanics youve dropped log in numbers and active numbers. Make us able to move around again. You want local content.. stop nerfing us moving around our Local areas.
I don't care what you try to tell us.. The launcher shows differently. When I am used to logging in at any day to 35,000 characters in game... Vs now 17,000 at times touching 28,000. Its a difference to the Player bases eyes. We don't look at your statistical tools. We have also become very.. Very Untrusting of what you toss at us.. because you have caused this distrust in loyal players. You were on our pedestals.. statues to be built.. Now we just want to toss a rope around it and Tear them down. Until you rebuild that Trust.
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Circumstantial Evidence
211
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Posted - 2015.08.13 20:27:30 -
[188] - Quote
Lu Ziffer wrote:Sovereignty effects on Jump Fatigue (e.g. jumping out of/back into capitals reducing jump fatigue)
This is something for the Observatory Array . CCP Larrikin #101 - 2015-08-13 12:43:59 wrote: Thats a cool idea. Some sort of 'Navigation Array' perhaps tied in with some of the other ideas in this thread and only deployable in your capital? From my earlier reply, I think any sov benefit should only affect the jump out: you should be subject to local conditions and bonuses (none outside your Sov) at the jump origin.
Michael Pawlicki wrote:I very much like the idea of jump fatigue drugs. I would prefer to give them a slightly higher side effect chance, but that could be a very interesting industry, especially if the sites that have the materials for production are in 0.0 or 0.1 lowsec systems. CCP Larrikin #106 - 2015-08-13 12:58:02 wrote:One of the concerns with jump fatigue drugs is the fragmentation of fleets. Half the fleet is effected by serious side effects while the other half is fine. I think this is a problem for players to solve, or not solve, like any other drug. It could be useful for small groups. A 5-10% jump range drug might enable a Titan pilot to do a drive-by shooting that goes wrong, puts him out of easy rescue range from his support, and escalate into a massive conflagration. |
Invisusira
The Rising Stars Tactical Narcotics Team
320
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Posted - 2015.08.13 20:28:18 -
[189] - Quote
CCP Mimic wrote:CCP was eager to hold this round table about Jump Fatigue, Capital Ships and the issues that this portion of players are currently facing.
Unfortunately, most of the questions put to us could not be answered in a way that would satisfy player concerns about Fatigue, Sov or any of the other issues faced by Null Sec players that were brought to the table.
uh
"we were eager to hold this round table about something we knew we couldn't give you guys any straight answers on"
I don't want to just degenerate into ad hominem here but
are you guys dumb?
EVE Music
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Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
528
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Posted - 2015.08.13 20:38:15 -
[190] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:I love jump fatigue.
It adds more strategy and stops alliances jumping on every little gang.
No, no it doesn't. What it prevents is the possibility of jumping on every little gang actually being punished. Previously it was a risky venture to be irresponsible with capitals, whereas it's basically impossible to counter now.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Gho Higyidr
Black Serpent Technologies Black Legion.
17
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Posted - 2015.08.13 20:53:45 -
[191] - Quote
Honestly don't have the time to read all the previous posts, but skimming them showed some interesting ideas. However in terms of SOV.. I personally hate it.. But an improvement suggestion could be something like this:
Add a decay timer to unfinished business. Let's say an enemy half-arsed entosis links a TCU, but is chased off half way through it The TCU goes into Overtime during the next Invuln state because it hasn't been entosised back to secure. IMO after 24hrs of not being touched negatively or positively a decay timer back to 'secure status' should happen. This includes nodes, stations, hubs whatever. It would mean the endless cycle of inty trolling would have either end.. or literally be constant... which I doubt anyone wants.
Jump changes? I like the idea of no fatigue within a 10LY sphere.. TBH 8-10LYs for caps with max jump skills should be the norm but leave the fatigue alone. I can work with fat. With a 5LY range it just makes even USING a cap with no intention of force projecting a literal CANCER. BLOPS should have a reduction in fatigue, maybe a boost in range but again there are issues with BLOPs projection.. SO I guess it's all in a matter of compromise.. At the moment the current mash up of the fatigue / rang versus this horrid sov system where troll ceptors rule... makes the game more annoying than anything.
Just my two cents. |
WhiteHalo117
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
20
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Posted - 2015.08.13 20:57:56 -
[192] - Quote
1. Reduce the time you need to wait to jump again in half.
2. Hard cap the fatigue timer to some obscure amount of time that's not super long but is semi painful.
2. Make it so it takes a handshake between both parties in order for someone to add you to their watch list.
3. Leave current jump ranges as is for caps/super/titans
4. Remove jump fatigue you acquire entirely from jump beacons and jump bridges (except Titan bridge).
If these things are done you give back the "overlapping spheres of influence" and medium to large fights will happen in eve again. You make it so owning space is useful again, and keep power projection in line. You also make it so people can actually move their supers/titans solo. You no longer have a 100% certainty of losing it moving solo and can keep your character subscribed to the game. |
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
129
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Posted - 2015.08.13 22:09:25 -
[193] - Quote
I think a lot of the problem I am seeing in this thread and as a whole is that we have attracted a vocal portion of players who feel entitled to do everything they want with immediate effect.
Many people have got used to or been bought up on a cushy carebear lifestyles which has been created for them by their null sec overlords. If you join one of the big null sec alliances nowadays their organisation is such that they have created a theme park for their members. These people have never understood or have forgotten the harsh realities of carving out an empire in deep hostile territory.
I've noticed a trend, a lot of the older pioneers in eve were more than happy to do activities such as convoying a freighter though null sec in order to setup their empires, or mine for months to get a battleship. They'd be polite on the forums and we had a very nice community where everyone accepted eve was a difficult 'hardcore' game intended for a mature adult audience.
In the last year or two in particular I've noticed a downward trend, and this latest incident confirms this. We get this stream of newer players from cesspit's such as redit who are full of entitlement and if they don't get what they want they'll shout and scream and try to rile up the redit herd who will then turn on the Devs and yell all manner of profanity.
The point I'm making is that through super organised big null sec alliances able to create a theme park experience for their players, and with the constant attempts by CCP to attract this entitlement crowd by continually dumbing down or reducing the hardcore nature in certain aspects of the game, we have attracted a vocal portion of players who will complain at anything as they feel entitled to have the game exactly how they want it and they want all of this immediately.
I am certain that the majority of players are more than happy with the recent jump fatigue changes as is born out by the metrics you posted in the initial thread.
My solution would be to toughen things up even more so, return eve to its hardcore nature where we get real consequences for death, and people have to put in time and patience to achieve the things they want. Let the entitlement crowd rage and eventually quit, they aren't a positive element of the community anyway and will drive more people away if anything.
In relation to fatigue in particular I thought the idea that someone else posted in this thread a good one, which is that capitals should have varying ranges rather than a blanket 5LY range so that it offers an interesting choice for players who want to perhaps push the forward element of their capital fleet out further to attack a target and leave the rest behind.
I think fatigue is great as a concept, but perhaps look at changing the formula so that the time between jumps is longer, but the fatigue accrual is less punishing. |
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
129
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Posted - 2015.08.13 22:23:45 -
[194] - Quote
Lu Ziffer wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:
Alternative FTL systems (Hyperdrive anyone?) Jump Fatigue effecting combat effectiveness instead of limiting movement Lets go a step back and inspect EVE a bit . We have a reaction drive on grid ( Reality),we have a warp drive which is bending space to move between grids ( Star Trek) and we have jumpdrive which is basicly an artifcial wormhole between systems( Battlestar Galactica). The missing fourth would be a a hyperdrive Star Wars style were the ship moves into a dimension which allows FTL travel due to changes in how physics behave but it is not instant just a lot faster like warp 9.9 Star Trek style. Lets say we change the standard drive of a capitalship to such a hyperdrive and make the jumpdrive a backup entirely intended to be used in extraordinary circumstances. Here we get to point my second quote. Lets say a ship traveled 5ly in 10minutes in hyperspace using fuel depleting its capacitor but it was able to update its position constantly so it gets no "jump fatigue" . Another ship did the same travel using its jumpdrive and reached its position instantly but the sensors have to reestabilish its position in the universe as such it gets "jump fatigue" which limits its sensors and makes it incapable to do another jump for some time also as it just ripped space time it takes a structure damage. Basicly hyperdrive would be a option with one drawback, it takes time. Jumpdrive would have a few drawbacks the structure hit and as the sensors are already used for establishing its position a drawbak in locktime, tracking and anything remotely in contact with the sensor. This option gets rid of the jump fatigue problem as there is another option to travel between systems but it keeps the tactical option of instant travel if needed Hmm, this is a very good idea. A hyperdrive would allow you to traverse great distances at immense speeds in real time as opposed to suddenly appearing in your destination with no warning which is one of the most oppressive elements of cynos and jumpdrives.
In fact, this is such a good idea you could even scrap or severely limit jump drives altogether if this was to be implemented successfully.
It would add a whole new dimension to warfare in eve. We could have player built observatories which could pick up incoming fleets in hyperdrive giving a couple of minutes warning before they land.
There are many possibilities with this and I think it would be a good step forward in the evolution of the game. |
Talurion
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2015.08.13 22:42:15 -
[195] - Quote
Hey Larrikin! I'm not interessed about 0.0 lamadrama nerds nolifers and I'm really sorry that this kids came out with salty words and moaning about the new sov etc.
I will drop now my 2 cents and again, sorry for the few retards that just moan, you are doing great, don't listen to them. 1) fatigue atm should be nerfed, ok; not removed, just nerfed. 2) remap and stats must be removed as useless skills like cpu upgrade and powergrid upgrade removed too. 3) wormhole nerf must be nerfed. I liked the previous version.
5) !!!!!!!!! You know better than me that EvE is a sandbox and players create content right? Right. You know better than me that 0.0 sucks because CFC and PL are allied and created stagnation and this won't change with fozziesov or any other new and fantastic sov project; why? Noone can even think about fighting CFC in a direct fight, cuz noone can win. The only group that could be able to "invade" cfc are PL because they have loads of supers (eve suffered the last big player loss after PL roflstomped BRAVES) but they are so bad at PvP that they decided to blue. Witch new entities do you think that are going to grab some sov? Braves tried months ago and they were many, but what happned? ****** nerds from PL decided to roflstomp them to show theyr big epenis.
You have to find a way to directly speak with mittani and pl leadership and tell them to **** off. Find a wy to disband cfc and if you cant find it, ban them all, so noone will keep offending ccp. And noone will miss cfc/pl nerds.
Cheers
It is now pl/n3, not PL/N3 (sacrificed all their caps)
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Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
530
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Posted - 2015.08.13 22:49:03 -
[196] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:The point I'm making is that through super organised big null sec alliances able to create a theme park experience for their players, and with the constant attempts by CCP to attract this entitlement crowd by continually dumbing down or reducing the hardcore nature in certain aspects of the game, we have attracted a vocal portion of players who will complain at anything as they feel entitled to have the game exactly how they want it and they want all of this immediately.
Yes, but the jump changes as they are have helped the 'themepark building' you describe, not harmed it. They eliminated the ability to project across the map, which was great, but they went so far with limiting projection that having capitals used against you at all became a thing you basically have to consent to at this point. In the Deklein of old, every so often someone would be ballsy enough to catch a someone being reckless with supercaps, and drop 50 dreads trying to kill it; capital content was made because the board was small enough that all pieces were threatened. Now the board is so big that no pieces are threatened except by consent, or in choke regions while moving (lowsec), or in high density areas (lowsec). Jump fatigue is a good idea, just the implementation/numbers are too strict at the moment. I am sure there are people who want the entire thing rolled back, but the cooler heads here just want a system somewhere between the old and new, that lets capitals move, but not to the gross excesses of years past.
It was boring before; batphone will arrive, all the players and moves are known a-priori, things are boring. It is boring now; there are no batphones, it's impossible to move and there are no players, things are boring.
It should be exciting in a future we can hope for; some of the players and some of the moves can be predicted, some movement allows modest batphoning and bigger more interesting fights, but not to the point where will be stagnant. Things could be exciting.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Talurion
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2015.08.13 23:02:23 -
[197] - Quote
WhiteHalo117 wrote:1. Reduce the time you need to wait to jump again in half.
2. Hard cap the fatigue timer to some obscure amount of time that's not super long but is semi painful.
2. Make it so it takes a handshake between both parties in order for someone to add you to their watch list.
3. Leave current jump ranges as is for caps/super/titans
4. Remove jump fatigue you acquire entirely from jump beacons and jump bridges (except Titan bridge).
If these things are done you give back the "overlapping spheres of influence" and medium to large fights will happen in eve again. You make it so owning space is useful again, and keep power projection in line. You also make it so people can actually move their supers/titans solo. You no longer have a 100% certainty of losing it moving solo and can keep your character subscribed to the game.
Edit: Oh, also while you're at it why not just remove the widow from the game entirely?
Large scale fights? You wont see any soon, I'm sorry for you. The only coalition that was able to contrast you guys died with the last war almost 1 year ago. How cant you understand? Is not fozziesov fault that you cant have fun, it is just because you decided to join the largest coalition of the game. I can't understand how you dont understand... I have the right change for you: man up, find your lost balls and leave cfc with your friends and start to fight them. I'm sure you will have fun. I did few years ago and I strongly suggest you to do so.
It is now pl/n3, not PL/N3 (sacrificed all their caps)
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Lu Ziffer
Jelly Baby Corporation Fidelas Constans
69
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Posted - 2015.08.13 23:11:34 -
[198] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote: It would add a whole new dimension to warfare in eve. We could have player built observatories which could pick up incoming fleets in hyperdrive giving a couple of minutes warning before they land.
There are many possibilities with this and I think it would be a good step forward in the evolution of the game.
I really like the idea with the observatorys this is a good otion for these until now a bit undefined structures.
In the thread for using a jumpdrive without a cyno we came up withan idea of a structure which would reduce jump precision to the point that the ship gets jumped into the wrong solar system and that there is some way to compensate by using a new ship modules or something else . This gets complicated very fast but a structure that reduces hyperdrive speed for non allied ships could be an option.
Nice to see that there are a few people who have new constructive ideas.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2180
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Posted - 2015.08.14 00:08:37 -
[199] - Quote
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote: Jump Ranges to me should be adjusted
Carriers shifted to 5.5 au Super Capitals to 7 au Titans to 8 au Jump Freighters 10 au Rorqual 7 au Blops can remain how it is
Other way around. If you have these changes then Industrials go the furtherest, then carriers and dreads after that. Titans project the least distance.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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Juan Mileghere
Incident Command Spooky Scary Skeletons.
34
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Posted - 2015.08.14 00:13:15 -
[200] - Quote
So the point of the changes is to make travel slower and people are complaining that things are traveling slower?
Look there is no problem, just shitposting
Bridging should give less fatigue than normal jumps 50%ish seems nice (Incentive for ) JF fuel consumption should increase greatly (Local Production should outdo importing) Going into Capital Systems should reduce fuel use Reducing the cap for fatigue would be nice and having boosters to address it would also be nice
Or maybe a windup of like a few mins per LY, still means supes/caps are (Relatively) easy to dunk due to making escape harder but limits using them offensively, maybe giving the JF/Rorq a wind-up bonus
Blobbing Explained
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2180
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Posted - 2015.08.14 00:28:29 -
[201] - Quote
More capitals, especially Supers and Titans are dying.
Phoebe is successful.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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Alyxportur
From Our Cold Dead Hands
99
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Posted - 2015.08.14 00:31:44 -
[202] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:I love jump fatigue.
It adds more strategy and stops alliances jumping on every little gang.
Do you join these little gangs, or are you just romanticizing their assumed existence? Unless someone (aka CCP or the guy who runs zkb) can roll out some statistics on 'little' fleet-on-fleet encounters and prove with data how they've gone up since Phoebe, then content has gone down, not up. |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
392
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Posted - 2015.08.14 00:35:35 -
[203] - Quote
Ignore the goon sh1tposting and everything will be normal again. |
vikari
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Nulli Secunda
132
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Posted - 2015.08.14 00:48:18 -
[204] - Quote
You're asking for feedback, so I'll voice issues I have. I will not give idea's for solutions because, as a general player I am definitely not qualified to understand the full dynamics of any change you make, their ease of implementation or their full effects of them.
Issues:
Jump Fatigue: It reduced combat opportunities. Not just the largest server crushing fights, but also the chance for small fights. Maybe that was the idea. I do know in a world where we want immediate entertainment, and can receive it, Eve has taken a step back in this arena. We have enjoyed a game where our fun can be readily available within 30 minutes or less. We are very hard press to find that entertainment now. If we make an hour long or longer trip the fun may never be available, and that leave us with two or more hours of our gaming time wasted. Given Eve's demographics, most of the player base is mid aged adults with limited time after they come home from work. War was a goal oriented event, with big battles readily available content. Getting all of those again would be extremely unlikely in the current Sov system. Maybe we have more space then we need? There is no region or even constellation in nullsec that will have constant fighting over its Sov, and deployments are not a viable option for Sov holding alliances. I'm reminded of WoW, and the town Halaa. The town was in constant flux because there was reason to want to take it, if even for a little while. I'm sure many of the Dev's would understand what I mean by this. Eve lacks that sort of incentive to push constantly conflict over Sov.
Entosis Link: This has led to a system that in its current form lack and emotional reward for success. In the past defending or attacking led to risk. Not just for the alliance but for the individual. My ship could be lost, and in some cases the cost could be very substantial. Alliance has fielded fleets they could never afford to lose, and it was those risks that were emotionally exciting. I could lose everything, or take it from someone else. The feeling of crushing them was amazing. Now Sov is a system that does not put any individuals at real risk of loss. "Troll Ceptors" seem to run the majority of Sov combat, but ultimately the system doesn't push any alliance towards risking significant amounts of isk. There is no need to justify the loss of billions of isk, and maybe that helps the smaller group, but it takes a significant reward away from us that motivated fights. Even if the GÇ£Troll CeptorsGÇ¥ are resolved, the system in its current incarnation doesnGÇÖt justify the use of capital fleets of any size, or the use of supers. The escalation of ships is not as powerful as using the Sov system to simply exhaust the owners of it, through constant harassment. The Sov system supports risk aversion.
Alliance Level Income: Alliances were handed a Sov system that was ment to stress them to the point of releasing large swaths of space that was unused. It did not replace the income source related to holding large swaths of space. Not just renters, but also moons. CCP buffed space to allow for greater occupancy, but there is no way for an alliance to pull in a portion of that income. If the alliance had something as simple as a tax, it might be effective, but ultimately the lack of a system that allows for alliances to bring individual income up to the alliance level pushing alliances to fight the very Sov mechanics that CCP has introduced. I believe this has resulted in people pushing themselves to exhaustion, and ultimately walking away in favor of some much needed rest.
Removal of Types Game Play: Many of your old vets have felt a disconnect from CCP. They are highly skilled players that have come to enjoy a style of game play that you have removed. There are multiple styles I'm referencing. Two of which that come to mind are Deployments and Capital Fleets. Deployments were heavily nerfed with Jump Fatigue, and this lead to groups like PL having significantly more work to accomplish their style of game play. Second style is a capital centric style. Many players are almost purely capital based, with a few being dedicated to supers and titans. These ships ships no longer have a purpose. I know CCP want to take a serious look at these ships and give them some options for game play. However before options were designed to allow them to continue their use, they were given a lack of any use. This basically takes a number of peoples large investments, and makes them worthless for the current time. Many of these people are leadership/enablers for the larger populous and that leads to greater effect over all as these people log in less often or express their unhappiness about the situation. Though it may be a small group of players, their interest in this game has wide reaching effects.
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Artemis Dalvik
Arxersize Industries
6
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Posted - 2015.08.14 03:53:06 -
[205] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:h4kun4 wrote:Some suggestions: Examples for difficulty might be that you cant move as far and you can't carry that much fuel. 5 Light Years range is a joke, combine that with a fuel bay that has enough fuel for lets say 10-15 light years and you can think how difficult it would be to move a 500 man cap fleet around the galaxy. You would need to have fuel caches everywhere or have Jump Freighters travel with you. So, risk vs. reward, also preparation vs. reward. Wouldn't this just mandate JF's for move ops without having any real effect on power projection? Arguably, having to cynos in place = preparation, and chains of cynos across the galaxy allowing rapid power projection was one of the reasons jump fatigue was introduced in the first place? Something like this could be potential used in combination with other effects (which your suggestion goes into more depth with).
The core issue, as I understand it, is that the tool used to reel in power projection did so by increasing time spent. I would not consider myself a game designer, but I know that it is dangerous to influence players via tedium.
So my question is, why does power projection need to be addressed in a way that severely limits the ability of caps to move? The largest complaints I have heard for Phoebe have been logistically moving capitals and nothing to do with combat. Im imagining a system that reduces combat efficiency of capitals per jump in an exponential manner. Surely there are tools you can use to give capitals range while still preventing them from traveling long distances for fights. If someone wants to move his carrier halfway across the galaxy in an evening I say let him, but he shouldnt be expected to be able to fight once he gets to his destination.
Eve demands a lot from players time. This is not something that should be taken for granted during design. If I wanted to play CS or league of legends I can load it up and get a game in 5 minutes to play for the next 40-60m. There are many many things I can do in eve for an hour and walk away with zero content, whether its looking for fights, hunting miners, running sites, forming a fleet, etc. There is no guarantee.
I would love to know that a dev has read this and what their thoughts are on a non-movement based approach to power projection. I know Im not the first to suggest this but I have yet to hear an acknowledgement or response. |
Tuzy Naranek
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.08.14 04:03:28 -
[206] - Quote
Phoebe and Aegis are killing this game. Jump fatigue needs to be removed entirely. Nullsec is stagnant due to stubburn small-gang pvp loving game designers trying to force the majority of nullsec players to play the game the way these developers like to play the game instead of sticking true to the sandbox nature of Eve Online. People played this game over other MMOs because this was the only game out there that had a single server everyone could play on together. By restricting movement in such a player hostile manner, you're actively encouraging people to NOT play your game. If I wanted to only fight or play with the people in nullsec that lived next to me, I would go play many of the other small-scale games that exist.
Why cannot you step back and realize this? Get your heads out of the sand and look as how your changes have decimated the daily average logged i players over time.
You are killing this game. |
Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Ditanian Alliance
66
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Posted - 2015.08.14 04:26:21 -
[207] - Quote
How is it that the most obvious answer to fixing this whole problem has been missed....
Keep fatigue the way it is. Continue to let cap ships use gates....
INTRODUCE GATES that go farther than one solar system. Say region to region or whatever.
1) This keeps choke points and the "terrain" of EVE.
2) Helps players not want to gouge their eyes out moving stuff. I have suggested this before even for HI-SEC. Why not have region to region gates in certain systems. Gankers will love the choke points. You have options to go the "long way" still. It helps shorten the workload on players so they can spend more time PLAYING but still carries risk vs reward.
3) These could be one-way cannon shots aimed at a constellation instead of solar system as an option instead too. Again distance and occurrence level of said "new gates" would be up to discussion.
It's not rocket science....this way we don't have to destroy the fabric of EVE and get into DEV / player fist fights.
my two cents...
Flame on! |
Harry Saq
Blueprint Haus Blades of Grass
97
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Posted - 2015.08.14 06:01:43 -
[208] - Quote
Stay strong CCP, the majority of the angry noisy feedback is short sided junk based on an obsolete entrenched mindset. Your vision is good, your goals are correct, do not go back, continue pushing forward and just bring on the system/constellation fortification ability and work on features that encourage and allow player density within said systems/constellations. |
Blavish
BOVRIL bOREers Mining CO-OP RAZOR Alliance
4
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Posted - 2015.08.14 06:18:36 -
[209] - Quote
CAPS TIME wrote:After all the drama and personal attacks surrounding the roundtable I feel ashamed of being part of this community.
Yep, pretty much all i have to say as well. |
Asuka Solo
Knights of Azrael Circle-Of-Two
2992
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Posted - 2015.08.14 06:34:10 -
[210] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Thanks for those that attended the Q&A session today, we appreciate those who took the time. We'd like to use this thread as a method of discussing Jump Fatigue ideas. Some of the interesting suggestions that we'd heard and would like to see player opinions on - - Altering jump ranges
- Altering jump fatigue curves
- Moving jump fatigue from character based to ship based
- Alternative FTL systems (Hyperdrive anyone?)
- Sovereignty effects on Jump Fatigue (e.g. jumping out of/back into capitals reducing jump fatigue)
- Balance of Jump projection v's Gate projection v's Wormhole projection
- Jump Fatigue effecting combat effectiveness instead of limiting movement
- Move-Mode for Capitals for move ops (e.g. Transforming into move mode (24 hour process) reduces combat capacity to near 0)
- Active methods of reducing jump fatigue (Modules, Skills, Drugs)
- What does local-content mean to you?
We'd also love to hear your ideas, post away space friends. Metrics Pron
[1]Altering base jump ranges i) Keep Titans at 2.5 LY. ii) Up Super Carriers to 3 LY. iii) Give Dreadnaughts and Carriers 3.5 LY, in line with the Rorq.
[2]Altering jump fatigue curves i) a fatigue timer for a 2.5 LY jump in a Titan should be 25 mins in my opinion (The ship caps up forever after a jump so it isn't going anywhere soon anyway) ii) a fatigue timer for a 3 LY jump in a super carrier should be 30 mins. iii) a fatigue timer for a 3.5 LY jump should be 35 mins. Basically 10 mins of fatigue generated per light year jumped
[3]Moving jump fatigue from character based to ship based I'd prefer you just delete jump fatigue.... Speaking of moving fatigue, when are stargates going to give sub cap gangs some fatigue? You know, local content, slow down eve, more fights, something something, stop power projection stuff. / rant
[4]Alternative FTL systems (Hyperdrive anyone?) If this is going to be a spool up method of jumping capitals that allows me to travel across the map when the countdown / spoolup timer hits 0, with a long cooldown after and the ability to move without cynos... then hell yea. Its about time.
If not, i demandz details......
[5]Sovereignty effects on Jump Fatigue (e.g. jumping out of/back into capitals reducing jump fatigue) Sure, but only if you can implement an occupied capital system for low-sec and NPC null alliances as well so that all capital ships can enjoy this feature....
[6]Balance of Jump projection v's Gate projection v's Wormhole projection Apply the same nerf of jump fatigue timers to all ships using star gates and wormholes to travel. If they argue against it it means your doing it right! Slow down eve, more fights, less t3 / cruiser blobs traveling 10 jumps in 10 mins amirite?
[7]Jump Fatigue effecting combat effectiveness instead of limiting movement This will hamper (erm I mean kill) capital PvP. Completely. So no. Bad CCP. BAD!
[8]Move-Mode for Capitals for move ops (e.g. Transforming into move mode (24 hour process) reduces combat capacity to near 0) Rly? A capital ship has to wait 24 hours when a tactical destroyer does it in seconds? I think you need to go smoke some more socks and rethink this one. 5-10 minutes or so is more like it. This puts it in line with most of the other cycle times of capabilities or modules of cap ships in eve, like triage, siege, doomsdays etc.
[9]Active methods of reducing jump fatigue (Modules, Skills, Drugs) Yes to all 3. Ships purely fitted like this will be the KM equivalent of suspect flagged billion isk sub caps fitted with warp stabs if caught on a stargate in hi-sec.
[10]What does local-content mean to you? Means I dont have to travel far or long or wait down fatigue timers to get into PvP or PvE... It also means my capital ships or supers dont have to get nerfed for others to enjoy the game in their smaller ships in their immediate area
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
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