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SilentAsTheGrave Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 354	Posted - 2015.09.10 21:18:58 - [361] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: So, what did I learn from all that? Well, that Jump Fatigue sucks! You knew that already! But, with proper planning and patience, you can overcome it (like so many things in Eve). Due to my careful management, the longest Jump Fatigue timer I got was about 3.5 hours (at the end of the night just before going to bed anyway). So, all the horror stories about "I came back to the game and got 30 days Jump Fatigue trying to move" are really just the result of impatience and poor planning. What would I change? I would add a drug that lowers your jump fatigue timer by a set number of minutes each time you take it - but you can only take one at a time (as with every other booster). Synth - 3 minutes Standard - 20 minutes Improved - 25 minutes Strong - 30 minutes As with the other boosters, they would have some drawbacks in the case of side effects. Probably to capacitor amount/recharge, armor amount, shield amount, armor repair, shield repair, resistances, etc. Thus, if I jumped 5LY, then popped Strong Jump Fatigue Reduction Powder, I would go from a 60 minute fatigue timer to a 30-minute timer. After waiting twenty minutes, I would be back down to 10 minutes. I could then jump again with no huge penalty. And so on and so forth. So the rich get to buy their way out of jump fatigue? ** that **. Horrible idea.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1692	Posted - 2015.09.11 03:51:09 - [362] - Quote SilentAsTheGrave wrote: So the rich get to buy their way out of jump fatigue? ** that . Horrible idea. Who are these poor people who own capital ships? Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why** do I post here? I'm stubborn.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1692	Posted - 2015.09.11 10:28:15 - [363] - Quote One other thought occurred to me concerning Jump Fatigue... It's absolutely wonderful flying a Jump Freighter. I moved my Jump Freighter from Aridia to Vale in the same amount of time it took me to take my Carriers one 5LY jump and wait out the Jump Fatigue. I jumped my three Carriers, logged them off in the station. Logged in the three cyno alts on those accounts. Jumped my Jump Freighter to those cyno alts. Jump cloned those cyno alts to the next three jumps. Jumped my Jump Freighter to Vale. Logged off my Cyno Alts and logged back in my Carrier pilots, in time to watch the last bit of my Jump Fatigue wear off. That's pretty insane. The other day I was listening to a Soundcloud of Black Legion's meetings, in which Elo was urging everyone to train for Blockade Runners and Black Ops, then apparently they were supposed to use the Blockade Runner to carry a packaged HAC? Or something like that? Go big or go home, I say. If he really wanted to have Black Legion deploy quickly, just have them all train for Jump Freighter. They should already have the jump skils. You can carry six packaged Battleships or thirty packaged Cruisers and all the fittings you can ever use in a Jump Freighter. Rigs are cheap these days, so repackaging subcapital ships is not a big deal. It's clearly the fastest way to redeploy/move (apart from Interceptor). As long as you can go station to station (and with 10LY range, that is not hard), it's really easy to relocate. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 1968	Posted - 2015.09.11 10:40:41 - [364] - Quote BRs can be punted to covert cynos though, which is extremely useful if you're trying to move quietly because you don't see the cyno chain appearing on the map
Rivr Luzade Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi 1876	Posted - 2015.09.11 12:49:28 - [365] - Quote And BR and BLOPS combined cost less than JF and are easier to move because you do not attract unwanted attention in High sec if a fleet of BR rushs through a system. Imagine doing this with a JF fleet. In a BR, you can also take gates in Low sec or even Null sec without being in immediate danger of dying, and you can scout your BLOPS. Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1692	Posted - 2015.09.11 13:39:28 - [366] - Quote afkalt wrote: BRs can be punted to covert cynos though, which is extremely useful if you're trying to move quietly because you don't see the cyno chain appearing on the map You can do the same with suicide cynos. If you light the cyno with 19 seconds left on the self-destruct timer, it will never appear on the in-game map. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 2477	Posted - 2015.09.11 13:54:33 - [367] - Quote d0cTeR9 wrote: Limit hot drop capabilities from enemies in a sov space system. Within one's own sov-spave relax the jump fatigue and range limitation. There you go CCP, 2 cool new modules for alliances to grind to build and maintain for their new sov space, which people are still trying to figure out, why should we have it?.... I tossed out something like this early on in the thread. Basically, jump fatigue would get reduced by some amount based on the lowest sov index of your start point and destination. If you're jumping into, out of, or completely away from your sov, you get no reduction because you don't hold sov in at least one system. This means you would have a hard time using this reduction to help you move or attack more easily. But if you're jumping from one sov system to another, you get it, so you'd have an easier time defending. Of course, with FozzieSov and the inherent entosis link nerf to all capital ships...I'm not sure this even matters anymore. Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures A brief history of C&P Thunderdome
Djiana Lenar Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2015.09.13 02:24:11 - [368] - Quote Need a skill for Jump Fatigue cooldown
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1701	Posted - 2015.09.13 02:48:19 - [369] - Quote Djiana Lenar wrote: Need a skill for Jump Fatigue cooldown No, we do not need yet another [mandatory] skill for all jump capable pilots. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
Djiana Lenar Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 13	Posted - 2015.09.13 02:50:02 - [370] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Djiana Lenar wrote: Need a skill for Jump Fatigue cooldown No, we do not need yet another [mandatory] skill for all jump capable pilots. yes we do sir
Mario Putzo 1509	Posted - 2015.09.13 05:11:17 - [371] - Quote I still think the biggest issue wasn't jump fatigue itself, but the reduction to jump ranges that came on its back. That being said the proposed 5day cap is nice...but i still think the ranges on some things need to change (carriers for one as it facilitates nomad groups ability to function effectively) Additionally I think that Black Ops Portals should not cause fatigue, but jumping a Blops ship with its own jump drive should.
Barrogh Habalu Forever Winter Absolute Zero. 1053	Posted - 2015.09.14 19:37:05 - [372] - Quote Djiana Lenar wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: Djiana Lenar wrote: Need a skill for Jump Fatigue cooldown No, we do not need yet another [mandatory] skill for all jump capable pilots. yes we do sir Why skill instead of sensible thing of setting proper CD amount base (granted, we already have something coming this year, if we go by dev blogs)? Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Cardcaptor Sakura Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 4	Posted - 2015.09.14 23:24:01 - [373] - Quote How about toss out jump fatigue outright? Nerfing jumping has more then that one solutions or minor changes to just that one solution. Let's break down what the original problem was, to see why it needed a nerf, in the 1st place. Very simply, being that previously, you could jump as many times as you wanted, from the edge of a corner all the way to the other side of the map to an opposite corner. Unlimited jumping meant you could freely move large amounts of capitals to a system and overpower your opponent by having them all jump in at the same location. Jump fatigue wanted to solve this problem, but I think there are more ways to achieve this goal that may be better at nerfing the unlimited jumping problem then jump fatigue currently. 1. So I think of fatigue, we should simplify the mechanic to streamline it. So how about limiting jump location options? Let me give an example. If a ship can jump a max of 10 LY, add 50% of that total to determine which systems you would be limited to if you wanted to jump. So this would be calculated with your system as the origin and then the locations you are able to jump to are within that 15 LY "circle" or "boundary". 2. During any given 24 hour period, you can jump either 1-3 or 3-5(unsure which is more suitable) times within your "set boundaries"..and the number of times you can jump reset to the max after each 24 hour period. Each 24 hour period would begin after your 1st jump for that day. 3. If you own sov, then maybe this nerf isn't applied while you are in your capital system. What I mean is, within your capital system ONLY, you can jump unlimited number of times, but ONLY IF your jump location is a different part of your capital system AND NOT into a different system, even the one next door. This would be a good thing because as it is your capital system, you should be able to "go all out" to defend your home system since it's the "only system you have"(if this is the 1st time getting sov) or the "only system you have left"(if you had a lot of sov but got all of t taken except for this one). I define this unlimited jumping as a "final stand" kind of thing..where it's "all or nothing" to defend your home from being taken. I think we just need to think of other ways to nerf the unlimited jumping problem and then to just say "jump fatigue is the one and only way to nerf it and we just need to tweak a bit here and there". The solutions don't have to be complicated as long as they can work to stop the consequences that go along with unlimited jumped that was in the "pre fatigue era". I am not saying "destroy the blob"..my method I stated, still allows that..it will just take longer to get to where you want, so that the defenders can have time to prepare and not be outnumbered 10:1. Which is usually how it goes down if a big alliance likes chewing on new 100 man corps that just barely got a hold of their very 1st sov barely a week ago, for instance...we don't want that kind of abuse of their power to be a barrier of entry to new entities that want to try out null sec.
Greylord Kane F-I-N-K PROPERTY F-I-N-K and Co. 3	Posted - 2015.09.15 14:39:26 - [374] - Quote I would like to throw out there as a miner and PI character who does not really do much PVP nor do I care to go that route that CCP allow certain types of mining and industrial ships to not accumulate JF. This would allow such ships as skiffs,procurers,orca,hulks to not have JF. They are really for mining and the whole poing of the JF was to purge more people to use the gate, but let's be honest with cloaky 24/7 camping going on in null sec what miner is going to jump gates with a pile of ice or ore. Grey
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1711	Posted - 2015.09.15 19:34:36 - [375] - Quote Greylord Kane wrote: I would like to throw out there as a miner and PI character who does not really do much PVP nor do I care to go that route that CCP allow certain types of mining and industrial ships to not accumulate JF. This would allow such ships as skiffs,procurers,orca,hulks to not have JF. They are really for mining and the whole poing of the JF was to purge more people to use the gate, but let's be honest with cloaky 24/7 camping going on in null sec what miner is going to jump gates with a pile of ice or ore. Grey Put your Hulks inside the Rorqual. Jump. You have very minimal fatigue. Use an interceptor to move your Hulk pilot. Profit. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 2522	Posted - 2015.09.16 13:27:23 - [376] - Quote According to the latest DevBlog, max jump fatigue is being reduced from 30 days down to 5 days in the Parallax release due out on November 3rd. Thank you CCP for listening to your player base. This change makes a lot of sense. Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures A brief history of C&P Thunderdome
Persephone IX Abyssos 1	Posted - 2015.09.19 09:57:52 - [377] - Quote Reduce jump fatigue for Regional jumps. Or alternatively you could allow Capitals to reach anywhere within the same Region but still accumulate jump fatigue per LY. You could bring back the old 13ly per carrier (or other max range), but only within the Region. Any jump above 5ly incurs an extra penalty. 5 ly is a bit restrictive, you should be able to reach anywhere within the same region (bonus to regional use). Changing Region and you will have the said 5ly restriction (or some other restrictive penalty, maybe double fatigue, due to regional jet lag :P). The point of fatigue was to restrict Capitals jumping around with impunity, and give them a more regional use.
Crimsons Storm Born-2-Kill Separatists 16	Posted - 2015.09.20 01:22:22 - [378] - Quote Whilst I am not impressed about the rigmarole in moving carriers around now days, I do think they were hit too hard with the jump changes. The purpose in which I personally use them (to ease the burden of moving my fitted ships around) no longer really exists as its a real pain in the ass dealing with fatigue, in this spirit, I personally think the purpose of SMA's in capitals has been somewhat diluted. I'd like to see carriers get at least 10ly jump range back EVEN if that costs me more fatigue. In the alternative, we need a version of the bowhead with a decent jump range as I think the movement of fitted ships in a space as vast as the eve universe is an area that needs some attention. (besides the current iteration of the bowhead, which in these times , may as well be a giant pi+¦ata / CODE magnet )
Tyby My Little Pony Industries Inc. Out of Sight. 7	Posted - 2015.09.20 07:11:38 - [379] - Quote Jump range nerfs killed my old corp, not fatigue; keep your fatigue, unnerf the jump range , problem solved; but yea, i'm sure you guys will miss the mark again like you keep doing for some time now, and do the "right" thing again... you want ppl to go "out", you want eve landscape to change on a dailly basis, but when was the last time you tried to move your stuff across 2-3 regions? i've been doing some movements in my time, when i changed corps for ex, i went from north to south and again north... now i know for sure that if i'll have to move again... i'll probably just quit. but like i said , don't mind me, do whatever you want, it's clr to me that the only feedback you really care about is wallet feedback
TrickyBlackSteel Russia Caldari RUCA Emperor 33	Posted - 2015.09.22 06:47:59 - [380] - Quote allow lower fatique when jumping trough your alliance bridge,like 15/25min,my space,i should have some bonuses from it...
Captain Awkward Republic University Minmatar Republic 70	Posted - 2015.09.22 10:07:08 - [381] - Quote Persephone IX wrote: Reduce jump fatigue for Regional jumps. Or alternatively you could allow Capitals to reach anywhere within the same Region but still accumulate jump fatigue per LY. You could bring back the old 13ly per carrier (or other max range), but only within the Region. Any jump above 5ly incurs an extra penalty. 5 ly is a bit restrictive, you should be able to reach anywhere within the same region (bonus to regional use). Changing Region and you will have the said 5ly restriction (or some other restrictive penalty, maybe double fatigue, due to regional jet lag :P). The point of fatigue was to restrict Capitals jumping around with impunity, and give them a more regional use. That would mean that a major alliance only needs a single staging system withing a region to hotdrop everything within that region. If they use a border system to a other reagion, they only need to take a single gate to hotdrop everything within that neighbour region too. I see so many suggestions here that would bring back "suddenly supercaps" power projection of old.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1741	Posted - 2015.09.22 11:38:22 - [382] - Quote Captain Awkward wrote: Persephone IX wrote: Reduce jump fatigue for Regional jumps. Or alternatively you could allow Capitals to reach anywhere within the same Region but still accumulate jump fatigue per LY. You could bring back the old 13ly per carrier (or other max range), but only within the Region. Any jump above 5ly incurs an extra penalty. 5 ly is a bit restrictive, you should be able to reach anywhere within the same region (bonus to regional use). Changing Region and you will have the said 5ly restriction (or some other restrictive penalty, maybe double fatigue, due to regional jet lag :P). The point of fatigue was to restrict Capitals jumping around with impunity, and give them a more regional use. That would mean that a major alliance only needs a single staging system withing a region to hotdrop everything within that region. If they use a border system to a other reagion, they only need to take a single gate to hotdrop everything within that neighbour region too. I see so many suggestions here that would bring back "suddenly supercaps" power projection of old. Completely agree. The current range for Capital ships is sufficient. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
Bronson Hughes The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration 2578	Posted - 2015.09.22 14:09:21 - [383] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Captain Awkward wrote: Persephone IX wrote: Reduce jump fatigue for Regional jumps. Or alternatively you could allow Capitals to reach anywhere within the same Region but still accumulate jump fatigue per LY. You could bring back the old 13ly per carrier (or other max range), but only within the Region. Any jump above 5ly incurs an extra penalty. 5 ly is a bit restrictive, you should be able to reach anywhere within the same region (bonus to regional use). Changing Region and you will have the said 5ly restriction (or some other restrictive penalty, maybe double fatigue, due to regional jet lag :P). The point of fatigue was to restrict Capitals jumping around with impunity, and give them a more regional use. That would mean that a major alliance only needs a single staging system withing a region to hotdrop everything within that region. If they use a border system to a other reagion, they only need to take a single gate to hotdrop everything within that neighbour region too. I see so many suggestions here that would bring back "suddenly supercaps" power projection of old. Completely agree. The current range for Capital ships is sufficient. I saw the case for upping the range while the higher jump fatigue cap was in effect. Sure, you could jump further, but you couldn't do it as often due to the crippling jump fatigue. But with the new five day cap I think current ranges will be fine. 5 LY range + 30 day max fatigue = bad balance. 5 LY range + 5 day max fatigue = good balance. Relatively Notorious By Association My Many Misadventures A brief history of C&P Thunderdome
Sexy Cakes Have A Seat 992	Posted - 2015.09.24 16:36:45 - [384] - Quote Jump bridges still worthless. Not today spaghetti.
Seth Quantix Product Of Battle Void.. 4	Posted - 2015.09.25 15:53:25 - [385] - Quote I'm a capital ship pilot. That's rather common. I dreamed of it since I got in the game; hell, titans brought me into eve. Yet, now that I fly them, I just try to avoid it. Because It's not funny. And it doesn't make me feel like playing a game. More like having the worst day of my life everytime I need to move one. Exemple : BL died. RIP. Had to leave; joined a friend corp. Now problems began : I needed to move a Blop and a Dread. Well I'm probably gonna end up selling that dread. Why ? Because I have 12 jumps to make with it. All around the 4,8 ly mark. That means 12 HOURS of travel, if I wait for JF to wear off. If I don't, well, I'll stack just under a week of fatigue. NOT awesome. I'm fairly sure I'm not pointing out some new issue. Everyone have to move caps someday, and it's pure boring everytime. another exemple : Black Ops drop. It's fun. At least for the gankers; or at least it was. Now it means you have 35 minutes to wait wherever you landed before getting back home. Or you'll stack 2 hours of blue fatigue. The list goes on and on. I get the whole "small alliances involved in small fights dont want huge super fleet to drop onto them" point. I just don't agree to it. EVE is a game about being unfair, mean, harsh on everyone who's not your friend. Some alliances EXIST only to wreck other people; that's their only purpose and nothing else. And that's okay; because EVE is not a game about not tempering with what other people want; It's about flatten the tires of everyone else to finish first. And if that's not enough, blow up the other's cars. Fatigue comes on top of cyno issues, depleting cap on jump, and every other jump mechanisms. And it's too much. Capitals ships main strength is the ability to jump; and they can't use it. If we really need to nerf that ability, increase the fuel costs of jumping; increase requirements on cynosural generators; even increase maintenance cost on cyno arrays. I had a good feeling earlier, reading Dev Blog about Battlecruisers balance. Not much nerfing here, and that's great. EVE can use more of really strong features and ships. And we need more of it. I'm pleased I'll be able to say "FC can I bring my Drake" more often now. When I think of EVE, I just wanna think of my fleet going from POS to POS across the galaxy; of epic fights, and even bigger fleets who just travelled the whole galaxy to come fight with me. But right now ? I guess I'll just go back to my 10 jumps.
Persephone IX Symbolic. 1	Posted - 2015.09.25 17:57:51 - [386] - Quote Captain Awkward wrote: Persephone IX wrote: Reduce jump fatigue for Regional jumps. Or alternatively you could allow Capitals to reach anywhere within the same Region but still accumulate jump fatigue per LY. You could bring back the old 13ly per carrier (or other max range), but only within the Region. Any jump above 5ly incurs an extra penalty. 5 ly is a bit restrictive, you should be able to reach anywhere within the same region (bonus to regional use). Changing Region and you will have the said 5ly restriction (or some other restrictive penalty, maybe double fatigue, due to regional jet lag :P). The point of fatigue was to restrict Capitals jumping around with impunity, and give them a more regional use. That would mean that a major alliance only needs a single staging system withing a region to hotdrop everything within that region. If they use a border system to a other reagion, they only need to take a single gate to hotdrop everything within that neighbour region too. I see so many suggestions here that would bring back "suddenly supercaps" power projection of old. Jump fatigue was introduced to curb power projection AND make use of capitals more Regional. Hotdrop everything within a region is a bit broad. Yes, they will be able to reach and touch enemy fleets within their region, but will accumulate enormous fatigue . And that will restrict reusability of the cap fleet. As for the second argument, all it takes is 1 jump to hd another region, but accumulated fatigue will disallow them to jump quickly back in case they need to defend their home region, while jumping gates means they can be bubbled to hell , effectively stalling them long enough(for null sec). Unfortunately, that doesnt apply to lowsec supers, and they are plentiful. Supers jumping gates was a bit courageous. With the 5 day cap, 5 ly is ok, i would just like to see carriers, not supers, getting a little jump range help if possible. Im not saying you are wrong, im just trying to find a good compromise, since smaller entities use carriers for logistic purposes too.
MrQuisno Perkone Caldari State 6	Posted - 2015.09.25 19:07:41 - [387] - Quote Jump bridges take time to set up with sov. They should reduce the jump timers by 50%. Let you go 10 light years for them. Again you can't use capital in them so it's time they be worth while having them. Titan bridge timers need to be reduce by 50% on the timers. They are built for attacking and defending the space were you live.
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2736	Posted - 2015.09.26 02:51:00 - [388] - Quote I don't think the bridges need any special timer reductions. They need more versatility. Like having multiple exits or being able to bridge to cyno generators. I know I would especially use the one in my home system more often if it wasn't static to a system I rarely need to get to (this is the opposite issue for some other members of my alliance). would like to see more of an actual network rather than the current separate connections.
Nicodymus Dissidence Dawn 0	Posted - 2015.09.28 17:02:13 - [389] - Quote My vote's with increase LY, if need be then even only to supers, or let them dock, passed that I don't care. but its a sad game mechanic that they are being killed by. easy bottle necks and precognitive probes that allow ships to reach their desto prior to the super coming out of warp. Making it so that once again only big groups with massive numbers that can have large escort fleets can have the biggest toys in the game.
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2744	Posted - 2015.09.28 18:13:07 - [390] - Quote Mind if I ask what precognitive probing is? I'm sure I have an idea from the name, but I've never heard that before.

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