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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
149
   |
Posted - 2011.12.09 21:35:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Shivus Tao wrote:The myrm indeed needs to be able to actually use 5 heavies again to even be useful. Medium drones don't cut it. Give it 125 bandwidth and 150 or 175 drone bay and it will be feared in the same way as the hurricane, harbinger, and drake without being overpowered. YeahGǪ Drake-level tank + 750 DPS isn't over the top at all and actually puts it on par with the DrakeGǪ  Humour.
Who does more DPS at 70km? :P
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1996
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 21:40:00 -
[32] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Who does more DPS at 70km? :P That would still be the ++bermyrm, but with a slightly different fit.
Still, at that point, Naga. 
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Aamrr
HnL Enterprise
177
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 21:42:00 -
[33] - Quote
I believe an Oracle would out-damage a Naga at that distance. |
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
41
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 21:42:00 -
[34] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Tippia wrote:Shivus Tao wrote:The myrm indeed needs to be able to actually use 5 heavies again to even be useful. Medium drones don't cut it. Give it 125 bandwidth and 150 or 175 drone bay and it will be feared in the same way as the hurricane, harbinger, and drake without being overpowered. YeahGǪ Drake-level tank + 750 DPS isn't over the top at all and actually puts it on par with the DrakeGǪ Humour. Who does more DPS at 70km? :P -Liang
To be a bit more fair, how much dps is any myrm (current or proposed unnerfed) doing out to or even past warp disruptor range...  |
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
41
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 21:47:00 -
[35] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Who does more DPS at 70km? :P That would still be the ++bermyrm, but with a slightly different fit. Still, at that point, Naga.
Never seen sentries used in pvp, i guess it's possible, unless you're talking about pve, in which case what the hell are we talking about pve for? |
Goose99
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
308
|
Posted - 2011.12.09 23:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Tippia wrote:Shivus Tao wrote:The myrm indeed needs to be able to actually use 5 heavies again to even be useful. Medium drones don't cut it. Give it 125 bandwidth and 150 or 175 drone bay and it will be feared in the same way as the hurricane, harbinger, and drake without being overpowered. YeahGǪ Drake-level tank + 750 DPS isn't over the top at all and actually puts it on par with the DrakeGǪ Humour. Who does more DPS at 70km? :P -Liang
The "drake lvl tank" is niche active rep that's extremely vulnerable to neut and increasing worthless as blob size grows.
The "750 dps" is at short range with unbonused guns with most of it being drones that get killed, that is, if you remove dual/trip rep tank to fit dmg mods to buff those unbonused gun dps.
Even with 75mbit bandwidth increased to 125, Myrm is still crap outside of very specialized niche, under specialized situations. |
Manar Detri
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 00:07:00 -
[37] - Quote
I really don't see anything wrong with giving taht 125mb and seventh lowslot, would actually make it rather fun. But i do say there ought to be no extra pg/cpu for the slot. And tbh, a triple repper would only rep 800 dps without implants and nor boosters and put out a measly 600 dps, which isn't all that much ;)
Or if you prefer passive, you could slap a 105k ehp tank on it ;P |
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
47
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 00:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
Surely the Myrm's missing slot would be better off being given to the Brutix instead? |
Rawls Canardly
Phoenix Confederation
7
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 15:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
a utility high would be nice on the myrmidon, outside of that I can't see a reason to add more to it.
edit- or take one slot from the other boats. and add a mid or low to the t1 bc's... |
Emily Poast
The Whipping Post
42
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 18:15:00 -
[40] - Quote
Buzzmong wrote:Surely the Myrm's missing slot would be better off being given to the Brutix instead?
This! One extra low please. |
Jesus Rambo
Friendship is Magic
The Laughing Men
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 21:37:00 -
[41] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Khrage wrote:Goose99 wrote:Or put in AC. You know, the Winmatar weapon, to win. AC Ferox ftw. Not so much beauty though.  all you do is say winmatar wins wins wins no matter what you've got duct tape on your mind you can never get enough and everytime you say anything about eve everybody just says yeah yeah yeah winmatar wins sure whatever winmater wins everything else sucks cause you don't contribute at all at all at all and if anything but rust undocks... ... i think you get my point. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion-Liang
Jesus Christ Liang I love to hate you. You're my favorite person on the forums because of how much of a proper **** you can be. <3 |
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
45
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 21:38:00 -
[42] - Quote
How about a compromise? The myrmidon gets it's missing fitting slot (anything but a high slot preferably) along with a little extra pg and cpu, and only 5mbs extra bandwidth and 10m3 extra dronebay storage. Perhaps if i said "Pretty please?" |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
153
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 21:41:00 -
[43] - Quote
Jesus Rambo wrote:
Jesus Christ Liang I love to hate you. You're my favorite person on the forums because of how much of a proper **** you can be. <3
Its only until I get drunk. Then I'm "the life of the party". Too bad I never remember my antics the next day... 
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
|
Jesus Rambo
Friendship is Magic
The Laughing Men
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 21:57:00 -
[44] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Jesus Rambo wrote:
Jesus Christ Liang I love to hate you. You're my favorite person on the forums because of how much of a proper **** you can be. <3
Its only until I get drunk. Then I'm "the life of the party". Too bad I never remember my antics the next day... -Liang
Those are the best nights. I want to know you :P |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
52
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 22:08:00 -
[45] - Quote
5 meds + 6 lows = 11
Drake: 6 meds + 4 lows = 10
Harbinger: 4 meds + 6 lows = 10
Hurricane: 4 meds + 6 lows = 10
If anything, Myrmydon has already got 1 extra slot for no particular reason.
Drones are there to do damage. Large drone bay means the ship has to give up some highs in exchange. Just like it currenly is. By why give it an extra (11th) slot in mid/low? A mistery...
I guess you guys don't remember how OP myrms were back in the days of powerful RSD's and their 5 sentries...
2008, CCP Zulu(park): "command ships are fine as is"
2011, CCP Greyscale: "is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?"
Nice progress, guys. |
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
45
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 22:28:00 -
[46] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:5 meds + 6 lows = 11
Drake: 6 meds + 4 lows = 10
Harbinger: 4 meds + 6 lows = 10
Hurricane: 4 meds + 6 lows = 10
If anything, Myrmydon has already got 1 extra slot for no particular reason.
Drones are there to do damage. Large drone bay means the ship has to give up some highs in exchange. Just like it currenly is. By why give it an extra (11th) slot in mid/low? A mistery...
I guess you guys don't remember how OP myrms were back in the days of powerful RSD's and their 5 sentries...
I too, would like to arbitraily ignore an entire set of fitting slots to prove a faulty point.
Myrm: 6 high slots (based of off using 5 heavy drones which it cannot dp anymore...)
Harbi: 8 highs / 7 turrets
Drake: 8 highs / 7 launchers
Cane: 8 highs / 6 turrets AND 2 launchers
Based off of the above alone (lol), the myrm is now missing TWO fitting slots...
Also, I flew myrmidons when they first came out, they were terrors...
Since then, the bandwidth nerf came along as well as the drone shield regen nerf (no more insta-docking/undocking your drones to full shields).
Sensor dampener nerf has nothing to do with myrms so I have no idea why you would bring them up unless you're using them as an 'I've been playing for who gives a crap how long and therefore my point is somehow more valid because of it' referrence. |
Shivus Tao
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild
128
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 22:37:00 -
[47] - Quote
It's true that myrms were OP back in the day, but a great deal has changed since then. Certain balancing issues at the time were necessary, but should be re-evaluated when certain other aspects of the game change. Otherwise you get previously powerful ships locked into a role of total uselessness after other ships get improved in some way independent of the initial rebalancing. |
Nor Tzestu
Assero Argentum
28
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 22:41:00 -
[48] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:Tippia wrote:Shivus Tao wrote:The myrm indeed needs to be able to actually use 5 heavies again to even be useful. Medium drones don't cut it. Give it 125 bandwidth and 150 or 175 drone bay and it will be feared in the same way as the hurricane, harbinger, and drake without being overpowered. YeahGǪ Drake-level tank + 750 DPS isn't over the top at all and actually puts it on par with the DrakeGǪ Humour. Who does more DPS at 70km? :P -Liang The "drake lvl tank" is niche active rep that's extremely vulnerable to neut and increasing worthless as blob size grows. The "750 dps" is at short range with unbonused guns with most of it being drones that get killed, that is, if you remove dual/trip rep tank to fit dmg mods to buff those unbonused gun dps. Even with 75mbit bandwidth increased to 125, Myrm is still crap outside of very specialized niche, under specialized situations.
Or you could do what most people do when they say drake level tank. And you know...shield tank it. I realize it's your schtick to be deliberately obtuse in almost all things, but if you could refrain from sounding so clueless at times it would go a long way. How about you go eft warrior up a passive shield tanked Myrm then come back once you semi understand what your talking about.
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Lady Spank
GET OUT NASTY FACE
382
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 22:43:00 -
[49] - Quote
I want my high agility, nos damp 5 heavy myrmidon back thanks. Not that I think it was in any way balanced.
(a¦á_a¦â) ~ Get Out, Nasty Face ~ (a¦á_a¦â)
Signature edited. Navigator. |
Emoclew
BAMF's
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 23:23:00 -
[50] - Quote
Nor Tzestu wrote:[quote=Goose99][quote=Liang Nuren]
Or you could do what most people do when they say drake level tank. And you know...shield tank it. I realize it's your schtick to be deliberately obtuse in almost all things, but if you could refrain from sounding so clueless at times it would go a long way. How about you go eft warrior up a passive shield tanked Myrm then come back once you semi understand what your talking about.
feisty
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Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
45
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 23:25:00 -
[51] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:I want my high agility, nos damp 5 heavy myrmidon back thanks. Not that I think it was in any way balanced.
Excellent point. Everything that made the myrmidon OP has been nerfed.
Agility? Nope, standardized, and not included in the hybrid buffs.
Nos? Nope, better use a cap booster or two (bye bye meds) and neuts.
Five heavy drones? Nope, so sayeth the bandwidth.
Sensor damps? Nerfed to uselessness, get a tracking disruptor? Oh wait, you've either got cap boosters or shield mods there, nevermind.
Instant drone shield recharge? Nope, hope you brought sparez.
Nanos? Kiss multiple low slots goodbye to be close to 'lithe and agile'.
So now that we've seen all the things that when combined made the myrmidon of old OP nerfed, why the hell are we not trying to un-nerf it? |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
52
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 00:07:00 -
[52] - Quote
Wylee Coyote wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:5 meds + 6 lows = 11
Drake: 6 meds + 4 lows = 10
Harbinger: 4 meds + 6 lows = 10
Hurricane: 4 meds + 6 lows = 10
If anything, Myrmydon has already got 1 extra slot for no particular reason.
Drones are there to do damage. Large drone bay means the ship has to give up some highs in exchange. Just like it currenly is. By why give it an extra (11th) slot in mid/low? A mistery...
I guess you guys don't remember how OP myrms were back in the days of powerful RSD's and their 5 sentries... I too, would like to arbitraily ignore an entire set of fitting slots to prove a faulty point. Myrm: 6 high slots / 6 turrets (based of off using 5 heavy drones which it cannot dp anymore...) Harbi: 8 highs / 7 turrets Drake: 8 highs / 7 launchers Cane: 8 highs / 6 turrets AND 2 launchers Based off of the above alone (lol), the myrm is now missing TWO fitting slots...
Ok, as to drone bays:
Cane - 40 m3
Binger - 50 m3
Drake - 25 m3
Myrm - 150 m3
It swaps 2 highs for 1 med and 100 m3. That's a very decent exchange, I'd say.
2008, CCP Zulu(park): "command ships are fine as is"
2011, CCP Greyscale: "is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?"
Nice progress, guys. |
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
47
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 00:22:00 -
[53] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Wylee Coyote wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:5 meds + 6 lows = 11
Drake: 6 meds + 4 lows = 10
Harbinger: 4 meds + 6 lows = 10
Hurricane: 4 meds + 6 lows = 10
If anything, Myrmydon has already got 1 extra slot for no particular reason.
Drones are there to do damage. Large drone bay means the ship has to give up some highs in exchange. Just like it currenly is. By why give it an extra (11th) slot in mid/low? A mistery...
I guess you guys don't remember how OP myrms were back in the days of powerful RSD's and their 5 sentries... I too, would like to arbitraily ignore an entire set of fitting slots to prove a faulty point. Myrm: 6 high slots / 6 turrets (based of off using 5 heavy drones which it cannot dp anymore...) Harbi: 8 highs / 7 turrets Drake: 8 highs / 7 launchers Cane: 8 highs / 6 turrets AND 2 launchers Based off of the above alone (lol), the myrm is now missing TWO fitting slots... Ok, as to drone bays: Cane - 40 m3 Binger - 50 m3 Drake - 25 m3 Myrm - 150 m3 It swaps 2 highs for 1 med and 100 m3. That's a very decent exchange, I'd say.
I too, would like to arbitrarily ignore both bandwidth and ship bonuses to come to a faulty conclusion.
Cane: 30 Mbs / 30m^3 bonuses to projectiles.
Harbi: 50 Mbs / 50 m^3 bonuses to lasers.
Drake: 25 Mbs / 25 m^3 bonuses to missiles and shields.
Myrm: 75 Mbs / 150 m^3 bonuses to drones and active armor repairing.
Myrm can't use all of it's available bonused weapon systems at the same time, while the other BCs can use all of their bonused weapon systems AND all their available drones at the same time.
That seems fishy to me... |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
53
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 00:28:00 -
[54] - Quote
So what? Domies can't utilize their 375m3 bays at once, too.
Your posts are of great corelation your killboard presence. Both are meaningless.
2008, CCP Zulu(park): "command ships are fine as is"
2011, CCP Greyscale: "is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?"
Nice progress, guys. |
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
47
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 00:32:00 -
[55] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:So what? Domies can't utilize their 375m3 bays at once, too.
Your posts are of great corelation your killboard presence. Both are meaningless.
Thank you for showing everyone exactly why you have no business posting here. Run along now, the adults are conversing. |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
53
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 06:47:00 -
[56] - Quote
Domi just happens to have hybrid bonus instead of repping one. That's like Prophecy vs Brutix comparison, where Prophecy receives a tanking bonus while Brutix gets a damage one.
Now it might be worth discussing whether myrm needs or doesn't need 125m3 bandwidth, but stating it lacks slots is plain dumb. So, by the very same dumb logic, domi lacks slots, too?
2008, CCP Zulu(park): "command ships are fine as is"
2011, CCP Greyscale: "is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?"
Nice progress, guys. |
DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
520
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 09:01:00 -
[57] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Domi just happens to have hybrid bonus instead of repping one. That's like Prophecy vs Brutix comparison, where Prophecy receives a tanking bonus while Brutix gets a damage one.
Now it might be worth discussing whether myrm needs or doesn't need 125m3 bandwidth, but stating it lacks slots is plain dumb. So, by the very same dumb logic, domi lacks slots, too?
SORRY, I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW WRONG YOU ARE.
I'M STILL MAD.
I'VE BEEN HEADBUTTING A BRICK WALL FOR 4 HOURS BUT THE MYRM DOESN'T HAVE THE SLOT IS REQUIRES YET. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin.
Black Legion.
153
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 09:17:00 -
[58] - Quote
since when the myrm underpowered? |
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
49
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 12:33:00 -
[59] - Quote
Look at it from another point of view:
What if the Myrm has the correct number of slots, but the other three have one too many? |
Lady Spank
GET OUT NASTY FACE
390
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 13:23:00 -
[60] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Domi just happens to have hybrid bonus instead of repping one. That's like Prophecy vs Brutix comparison, where Prophecy receives a tanking bonus while Brutix gets a damage one.
Now it might be worth discussing whether myrm needs or doesn't need 125m3 bandwidth, but stating it lacks slots is plain dumb. So, by the very same dumb logic, domi lacks slots, too?
It's not worth wasting your time with these idiots.
(a¦á_a¦â) ~ Get Out, Nasty Face ~ (a¦á_a¦â)
Signature edited. Navigator. |
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