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Catherine Laartii
Crimson Serpent Academy Heiian Conglomerate
595
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 17:39:55 -
[1] - Quote
As much as i enjoy flying ecm, i've been of the opinion increasingly that they should just be removed from the game entirely, and caldari should get target painting bonuses for the ewar ships while minmatar loses TP bonuses.
So with this in mind, i'd like to list the bonus changes that would occur to the minmatar and caldari ships as a result of this.
VIGIL
Minmatar Frigate bonuses: 5% bonus to webifier velocity per level 10% bonus to webifier range per level
GRIFFIN
Caldari Frigate bonuses: 7.5% bonus to target painter effectiveness per level 10% bonus to target painter range per level
HYENA +1 launcher hardpoint
Minmatar Frigate bonuses: 5% bonus to rocket and light missile launcher firing rate per level 3% bonus to ship signature radius per level
Electronic Attack Frigate bonuses: 7.5% bonus to webifier velocity per level 30% bonus to webifier optimal range per level
KITSUNE
Caldari Frigate bonus: 5% bonus to ship capacitor recharge per level 10% bonus to rocket and light missile kinetic damage per level
Electronic Attack Frigate bonuses: 10% bonus to target painter effectiveness per level 10% bonus to target pinater range per level
BELLICOSE
Minmatar Cruiser bonuses: 5% bonus to light missile, heavy missile, and heavy assault missile launcher rate of fire per level 10% bonus to webifier range per level
BLACKBIRD +1 launcher hardpoint, -3 turret hardpoints
Caldari Cruiser bonuses: 7.5% bonus to target painter bonus per level 10% bonus to kinetic missile damage per level
RAPIER -1 mid slot, +1 high slot, +1 missile hardpoint
Minmatar Cruiser bonuses: 10% bonus to light missile, heavy missile, and heavy assault missile damage per level 10% bonus to light missile, heavy missile, and heavy assault missile missile velocity per level
Recon ships bonuses: 60% bonus to webifier range per level 20% reduction to covert cloaking device CPU usage per level
HUGINN +1 turret hardpoint
Minmatar cruiser bonuses: 5% bonus to medium projectile rate of fire per level 5% bonus to medium projectile damage per level
Recon ships bonuses: 60% bonus to webifier range per level 10% bonus to webifier velocity per level
ROOK
Caldari Cruiser bonuses: 10% bonus to light missile, heavy missile, and heavy assault missile velocity per level 7.5% bonus to kinetic light missile, heavy missile, and heavy assault missile damage per level
Recon ships bonuses: 10% bonus to target painter effectiveness per level 20% bonus to target painter range per level
FALCON -1 mid slot, +1 high slot, +1 turret hardpoint
Caldari Cruiser bonuses: 5% bonus to medium hybrid turret damage per level 10% bonus to medium hybrid turret optimal range per level
Recon ships bonus: 10% bonus to target painter effectiveness per level 20% reduction to covert cloaking device CPU usage per level
SCORPION +1 missile hardpoint, -4 turret hardpoints
Caldari Battleship bonuses: 10% bonus to kinetic missile damage per level 10% bonus to target painter effectiveness per level
PANTHER NOTE: Assume rebalanced with covops cloak
Minmatar Battleship bonuses: 5% bonus to large projectile turret damage per level 5% bonus to large projectile turret rate of fire per level
Black Ops bonuses 30% bonus to webifier range per level 7.5% large projectile turret tracking speed per level
WIDOW NOTE: Assume rebalanced with covops cloak
Caldari Battleship bonuses: 5% bonus to Heavy missile, Torpedo, and Cruiser missile launcher rate of fire per level 10% bonus to missile velocity per level
Black Ops bonuses 5% bonus to missile explosion velocity per level 15% bonus to target painter effectiveness per level
P.S. If there are any other 'remove ecm' threads, please refrain from listing this as redundant. It is specifically focused on what bonuses would be REPLACED with the ships affected by an ecm removal, not simply advocating for their removal. |

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
69
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Posted - 2015.08.15 18:00:09 -
[2] - Quote
why? |

FireFrenzy
SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart.
565
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 18:06:22 -
[3] - Quote
"show me on the killmail where the decloaking recon jammed you" is i believe the traditional responce...
But checking his killboard is to much like work |

Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1520
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 18:45:44 -
[4] - Quote
Target Painter is not a Missile Application Module.
It's a counter to this Which is an Amarrian E-War module
so -1 to your suggestion. |

Catherine Laartii
Crimson Serpent Academy Heiian Conglomerate
595
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 18:53:10 -
[5] - Quote
FireFrenzy wrote:"show me on the killmail where the decloaking recon jammed you" is i believe the traditional responce...
But checking his killboard is to much like work It's because i've flown ecm and fought against them regularly, not that i've died to them. The latter happens infrequently, and it's because i can do things like solo destroyers in a griffin and just how the concept for it works that i think it'd be a good idea to get them removed from the game. |

Catherine Laartii
Crimson Serpent Academy Heiian Conglomerate
595
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 18:54:27 -
[6] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:why? Because ecm is bad as a concept, overpowered in practice, and target painters would fit caldari better than minmatar. |

Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3032
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 20:22:04 -
[7] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:why? Because ecm is bad as a concept, overpowered in practice, and target painters would fit caldari better than minmatar. So you make Minmatar e-war ships completely OP to remove ECM?
Quote:HUGINN +1 turret hardpoint
Minmatar cruiser bonuses: 5% bonus to medium projectile rate of fire per level 5% bonus to medium projectile damage per level
Recon ships bonuses: 60% bonus to webifier range per level 10% bonus to webifier velocity per level
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Would reach out to 56Km and have a 90% strength, cold and without links.
Roleplaying Trinkets for Explorers and Collectors
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Specia1 K
State War Academy Caldari State
104
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 21:12:54 -
[8] - Quote
Remove ECM? Ok, but remove sensor damps and weapons disruptors to balance it all out. Hmmm, vanilla... |

Xackattack Avianson
You are a Pirate
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 21:30:24 -
[9] - Quote
Why don't you use ECCM or projected ECCM to negate the effects of ECM? With ECCM modules fitted, the enemy's ECM is just wasted midslots.
If you're having trouble with people ECMing your logistics chain, just work in one of these two solutions and all your problems are gone. |

Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2646
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 22:17:58 -
[10] - Quote
Your idea for web bonuses is way more powerful than ecm.
have you tried jamming a T3 with eccm and a dissolution sequencer? ECM is only over powered against small t1 ships. It is completely under powered against most other ships. The difference in sensor str between ships means that ECM is both underpowered and over powered depending on who you ask.
For example, ECM is usless on un-bonused boats. No other type of e-war will have to dedicate its entire rack of mids to be effective.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
70
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 00:50:35 -
[11] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote: Because ecm is bad as a concept, overpowered in practice, and target painters would fit caldari better than minmatar.
one more time, why?
you've yet to give a coherent reason to anything you've proposed.
tell me why ecm is bad as a concept to start, and then I can start listening to your proposal. |

Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2560
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 02:15:05 -
[12] - Quote
Let's let Minmatar keep target painters, and make defender missiles into a proper disruption system. ECM ships can be moved over to defender missiles (which should defend against both missiles and drones), and everybody can have ECM wherein each EWAR ship gets a role bonus 50% boost to the jammers best against the opposing race. So for instance, Blackbird would be super good at running defender missiles to destroy incoming missiles or disrupt and cause damage to drones, but it could also use Magnetometric jammers with more power than most ships get with them.
That way ECM would be an EWAR type for everyone, but nobody would be really good at it, thus making it more situational and esoteric, while other EWAR is more commonly used.
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
76
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 04:07:29 -
[13] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:why? Because ecm is bad as a concept, overpowered in practice, and target painters would fit caldari better than minmatar. So you make Minmatar e-war ships completely OP to remove ECM? Quote:HUGINN +1 turret hardpoint
Minmatar cruiser bonuses: 5% bonus to medium projectile rate of fire per level 5% bonus to medium projectile damage per level
Recon ships bonuses: 60% bonus to webifier range per level 10% bonus to webifier velocity per level
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Would reach out to 56Km and have a 90% strength, cold and without links.
lol |

Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
76
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 04:13:20 -
[14] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:As much as i enjoy flying ecm, i've been of the opinion increasingly that they should just be removed from the game entirely, and caldari should get target painting bonuses for the ewar ships while minmatar loses TP bonuses.
So with this in mind, i'd like to list the bonus changes that would occur to the minmatar and caldari ships as a result of this.
VIGIL
Minmatar Frigate bonuses: 5% bonus to webifier velocity per level 10% bonus to webifier range per level
GRIFFIN
Caldari Frigate bonuses: 7.5% bonus to target painter effectiveness per level 10% bonus to target painter range per level
HYENA +1 launcher hardpoint
Minmatar Frigate bonuses: 5% bonus to rocket and light missile launcher firing rate per level 3% bonus to ship signature radius per level
Electronic Attack Frigate bonuses: 7.5% bonus to webifier velocity per level 30% bonus to webifier optimal range per level
KITSUNE
Caldari Frigate bonus: 5% bonus to ship capacitor recharge per level 10% bonus to rocket and light missile kinetic damage per level
Electronic Attack Frigate bonuses: 10% bonus to target painter effectiveness per level 10% bonus to target pinater range per level
BELLICOSE
Minmatar Cruiser bonuses: 5% bonus to light missile, heavy missile, and heavy assault missile launcher rate of fire per level 10% bonus to webifier range per level
BLACKBIRD +1 launcher hardpoint, -3 turret hardpoints
Caldari Cruiser bonuses: 7.5% bonus to target painter bonus per level 10% bonus to kinetic missile damage per level
RAPIER -1 mid slot, +1 high slot, +1 missile hardpoint
Minmatar Cruiser bonuses: 10% bonus to light missile, heavy missile, and heavy assault missile damage per level 10% bonus to light missile, heavy missile, and heavy assault missile missile velocity per level
Recon ships bonuses: 60% bonus to webifier range per level 20% reduction to covert cloaking device CPU usage per level
HUGINN +1 turret hardpoint
Minmatar cruiser bonuses: 5% bonus to medium projectile rate of fire per level 5% bonus to medium projectile damage per level
Recon ships bonuses: 60% bonus to webifier range per level 10% bonus to webifier velocity per level
ROOK
Caldari Cruiser bonuses: 10% bonus to light missile, heavy missile, and heavy assault missile velocity per level 7.5% bonus to kinetic light missile, heavy missile, and heavy assault missile damage per level
Recon ships bonuses: 10% bonus to target painter effectiveness per level 20% bonus to target painter range per level
FALCON -1 mid slot, +1 high slot, +1 turret hardpoint
Caldari Cruiser bonuses: 5% bonus to medium hybrid turret damage per level 10% bonus to medium hybrid turret optimal range per level
Recon ships bonus: 10% bonus to target painter effectiveness per level 20% reduction to covert cloaking device CPU usage per level
SCORPION +1 missile hardpoint, -4 turret hardpoints
Caldari Battleship bonuses: 10% bonus to kinetic missile damage per level 10% bonus to target painter effectiveness per level
PANTHER NOTE: Assume rebalanced with covops cloak
Minmatar Battleship bonuses: 5% bonus to large projectile turret damage per level 5% bonus to large projectile turret rate of fire per level
Black Ops bonuses 30% bonus to webifier range per level 7.5% large projectile turret tracking speed per level
WIDOW NOTE: Assume rebalanced with covops cloak
Caldari Battleship bonuses: 5% bonus to Heavy missile, Torpedo, and Cruiser missile launcher rate of fire per level 10% bonus to missile velocity per level
Black Ops bonuses 5% bonus to missile explosion velocity per level 15% bonus to target painter effectiveness per level
P.S. If there are any other 'remove ecm' threads, please refrain from listing this as redundant. It is specifically focused on what bonuses would be REPLACED with the ships affected by an ecm removal, not simply advocating for their removal.
This is so LOL. A falcon with target painting bonuses is totally LOL.
ECM is fine, but CCP really should add a module that gives some type of ECM immunity or increase the ECCM errays sensor strength bonuses to 200%.
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Asuka Solo
Knights of Azrael Circle-Of-Two
2992
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 06:40:37 -
[15] - Quote
Nah... I like my ECM as is thnx.
Maybe you should remove yourself from the game?
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
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Sigras
Conglomo
1050
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 09:03:46 -
[16] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:why? Because ecm is bad as a concept, overpowered in practice, and target painters would fit caldari better than minmatar. I agree that ECM is bad game design with no counter play.
That is an argument for re-working ECM to add counter play, not for its removal...
Consider this idea made better by a poster farther down the page of adding in the number of locked targets to the lock strength idea. |

Lim Hiaret
Hiaret Family
25
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 11:04:33 -
[17] - Quote
I thout the general consesus was to get rid of ECM all together and replace it with laser pointers for blinding your opponents, skill and chance based of course...
... oh f*, double post ... sorry, don't mind me |

Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
735
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 12:04:35 -
[18] - Quote
why not x-train o minmatar OP and get the TP bonuses.
You don't like caldari ECM...well then go to a ship/bonus you like. This how eve works. Its why I am x-trained all 4 races. I like 1 thing from 1, another from another....in time you hit all the food sections of the buffet as it were.
Some of your shifting of bonuses.....
And do love how you snuck in covert ops cloak on blops. Stealth redudancy there. So do tell where is the dev blog we are getting this or shall we ask what links from the many many many many blops threads has you think you are getting this.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1814
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 12:51:33 -
[19] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Catherine Laartii wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:why? Because ecm is bad as a concept, overpowered in practice, and target painters would fit caldari better than minmatar. So you make Minmatar e-war ships completely OP to remove ECM? Quote:HUGINN +1 turret hardpoint
Minmatar cruiser bonuses: 5% bonus to medium projectile rate of fire per level 5% bonus to medium projectile damage per level
Recon ships bonuses: 60% bonus to webifier range per level 10% bonus to webifier velocity per level
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Would reach out to 56Km and have a 90% strength, cold and without links. lol
Have my LOL too.
Mainly for the bhaal than the recon but still...LOL |

McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
1045
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 19:04:51 -
[20] - Quote
The only idea of merit here is finding a way to add a TP bonus to some Caldari hulls besides Golem.
There are all our dominion
Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
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