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Imechal Ravpeim
Amarr International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.10 03:41:00 -
[1]
I don't know why it'd only effect lasers, but here it is anyway. What if there was a sort of damage seep? Sorta like an armor piercing force. It wouldn't effect shields since lasers already vaporize them rather quickly. I was thinking that 10% of the damage done to armor could seep into the hull(still doing the armor's resists into the effect though). It could just make the armor and hull less uniform so that it can get through it earlier like on some npc ships or structures. It'd certainly give the Amarr something to groat about huh? They could kill their opponent slowly by outlasting them, regardless of their tank.
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Draem
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Posted - 2006.12.10 03:45:00 -
[2]
And I thought those Hull Repairer modules were for reprocessing.
I wouldn't mind this idea, but maybe a bit less than 10%, aye?
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Imechal Ravpeim
Amarr International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.10 04:07:00 -
[3]
If it's any less then it wouldn't have much of an effect... Maybe they could combine the armor resists + a damage control(if they had one)/10 to find the amount of damage that seeps through.
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Tunajuice
Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.10 04:16:00 -
[4]
As a tangent, doesn't this already happen to npcs? I often notice their hull at 90% or 80% before their armor is gone.
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DemonStar Supernova
Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
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Posted - 2006.12.10 09:02:00 -
[5]
Well, then where are my armor piercing rounds then huh? If youre gonna sap my structure, its only fair that I do it back
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Ather Ialeas
Amarr Karjala Inc. Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.10 09:09:00 -
[6]
Originally by: DemonStar Supernova Well, then where are my armor piercing rounds then huh? If youre gonna sap my structure, its only fair that I do it back
The point of the OP was that it would be an unique attribute to lasers. Would make them worth fitting to be honest since currently there's no significant bonus for fitting lasers over projectiles... You are #27 in queue to see this signature. |
Soraya Kha'marr
Amarr Gun Metal Priests The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.12.10 09:37:00 -
[7]
yes, somehow npcs take hull damage when they are still only stripped of their shield - also not all npcs, and not with every weapon type. player ships usually only start to take hull damage once they are into the last 20% of their armor.
having lasers do a percentage of their damage to hull would be a great idea. not sure if it would be balanced, but a great idea indeed.
This space is mine, mine alone!!!oneoneeleven! (You can rent it for cookies though.)
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Audemed
Evisceration. Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.12.10 09:44:00 -
[8]
I think that this is by far the best idea for lasers yet, we keep the EM/therm disadvantage, but the hull damage seep could end up putting us back on par in the long run...talk about "unique"!
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Katrina Coreli
HelpCorp United Eden's Fire
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Posted - 2006.12.10 09:46:00 -
[9]
this seams like a very well thought out idea to me
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Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.12.10 10:50:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Audemed I think that this is by far the best idea for lasers yet, we keep the EM/therm disadvantage, but the hull damage seep could end up putting us back on par in the long run...talk about "unique"!
Yep, would be a great racial trait for Amarr laser boats. It would need to be worked out in detail though, so as not to turn into a complete uber. For example damage seep should only start after a certain percentage of the armor has been stripped away (anything between 50% and 80%, maybe the more damage the laser does, the lower the ammount of armor needs to be stripped before damage seeps into structure). Also the dmage done to the structure would probably need to be specific to the type of damage the laser puts out i.e. EM and TH; with TH doing more damage to structure than EM.
One Empire, One People, One Emperor, Forever under Heaven. Amarr Aeternus.
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Bardi MecAuldnis
Amarr Pirates of Destruction Union
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Posted - 2006.12.10 10:52:00 -
[11]
Interesting approach if nothing else...
Kind of like the heat generated by laser strikes weakens the hull?
I'm game. --- Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!! |
Mao Azur
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Posted - 2006.12.10 11:46:00 -
[12]
Wow, someone actually giving a good thought out solution to the amarr problem instead of just whining about it?!
Bravo op! I definitly would like to see this and I'm not even amarr!
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Katrina Coreli
HelpCorp United Eden's Fire
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Posted - 2006.12.10 11:47:00 -
[13]
just one small thing, when you say it would be worked out as 10% of armor damage done, would Hull Resists (I.e Damge Controls) diminish the damage recieved at all?
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Pinoy
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.10 13:04:00 -
[14]
I think it would make sense for damage control to reduce the seeping damage as well..
Also increasing the amount hull repairers repair would be nice. since hull tank is presently not possibile, and gallente have largest hull hitpoints... like they were supposed to be hull tankers or something...
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twopointoh
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Posted - 2006.12.10 13:32:00 -
[15]
I don't play Amarr, I fly all Minmatar ships.. and I think this is a great idea. :)
Maybe not 10%, or maybe.. it'd have to be tweaked to be balanced. The major problem I see is that armor tankers would be at a huge disadvantage, since if they're heavily tanked, they could rep rep rep their armor through a TON of damage and their hull would pop.
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Arowe Telak
Warped Mining
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Posted - 2006.12.10 17:38:00 -
[16]
Quote: The major problem I see is that armor tankers would be at a huge disadvantage
That's actually part of the point, I think, because lasers perform poorly against armor tankers.
Basically Shield tankers would have to worry about EM damage slicing through their shields quickly, and armor tankers would have to worry about hull damage. Armor tankers might have to use damage control to counter this, much as shield tankers are sure to fit an EM hardner.
Obviously it will require some tweaking, but it could be interesting. I think its an awesome idea, personally.
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Kayden Drake
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.10 18:54:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Kayden Drake on 10/12/2006 18:54:51 I was thinking along similar lines a while ago, and came up with a sort of related idea. The idea of penetration instead went to kinetic damage types, but it was also along the lines of giving Amarr some sort of "fix".
If your curious heres the link
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Shandling
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Posted - 2006.12.10 19:02:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Arowe Telak
Quote: The major problem I see is that armor tankers would be at a huge disadvantage
That's actually part of the point, I think, because lasers perform poorly against armor tankers.
Basically Shield tankers would have to worry about EM damage slicing through their shields quickly, and armor tankers would have to worry about hull damage. Armor tankers might have to use damage control to counter this, much as shield tankers are sure to fit an EM hardner.
Obviously it will require some tweaking, but it could be interesting. I think its an awesome idea, personally.
The problem imo is that it would require armor tankers to have two types of reppers. Right now, armor tanks only need armor repairs, (active) shield tanks only need shield boosters.
This would require that all armor tankers need to fit a hull repairer as well if there is ANY chance of an extended fight against Amarr.
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Brother Tycho
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.12.10 19:53:00 -
[19]
hmm wuld this not be a nerf to lasers as they will only do 90% of there damage to armour and 10% of whats left over wuldent be worthwhile even against structure.
it would only be a advantage in realy realy long fights where you wouldent usualy be able to break the enemys tank.
one solution could be a 10% reduction in rate of fire with dmg upped to compensate thus reduceing the amount of cap per minute you use while the lasers are active.
Maybe they could add a stacking componant to lasers so lasers are more effective in drawn out battles this could be a 1% dmg bonus on the second shot from the laser upto %5 after the laser has fired 5 times on a single target this could show the lasers ability to heat up the target and deal more damage but i dunno its a hard call to say what would make lasers more fun to use.
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Destr0math
Tritanium Workers Union
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Posted - 2006.12.10 20:35:00 -
[20]
perhaps on like...wrecking shots. Maybe like if you achieve more than a certain percentage of armor removed in a period of time then it seeps through. Otherwise it would seem to me that basically lasers would be the counter to ANY tank- shield OR armor. Plus, i think that would be cool.b
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Shandling
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Posted - 2006.12.11 04:45:00 -
[21]
Honestly, I think that all this would do would turn Amarr ships into huge tankers with undersized guns... since you'd break their hull EVENTUALLY, unless they wasted a slot on a hull repairer....
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.11 05:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Shandling Honestly, I think that all this would do would turn Amarr ships into huge tankers with undersized guns... since you'd break their hull EVENTUALLY, unless they wasted a slot on a hull repairer....
First off. How can something be a waste (ie the "wasted" mid slot) if its actually what it needs?
Amarrs going to be huge tankers? W00t! Is that really what amarr is supposed to be about? Hell yes!
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NeoGeist
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Posted - 2006.12.11 07:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Imechal Ravpeim I don't know why it'd only effect lasers, but here it is anyway. What if there was a sort of damage seep? Sorta like an armor piercing force. It wouldn't effect shields since lasers already vaporize them rather quickly. I was thinking that 10% of the damage done to armor could seep into the hull(still doing the armor's resists into the effect though). It could just make the armor and hull less uniform so that it can get through it earlier like on some npc ships or structures. It'd certainly give the Amarr something to groat about huh? They could kill their opponent slowly by outlasting them, regardless of their tank.
Um, HAXXORS??!?!?!! 10% is WAY too much. maybe, and i mean maybe, .01% would leak after armor resistances.
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Saaitar
Gallente No Quarter.
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Posted - 2006.12.11 09:45:00 -
[24]
Well , a bit different idea: amarr complain about uselesness of EM damage type against ships in general (caldari always wear the EM hardeners and minmatar ships has 70% of thermal passive EM resistance etc). From my experience, I know that one of the most nasty damage type is Thermal so why not make the thermal damage the primary for lasers? From physics I know that the light has corpuscular-wave nature...it means it both acts like a solid or wave. It acts like a solid because it is idea of equipping modern satellites and probes (the real ones) with so-called sun sails - sails that will move the probe using the force of a solar wind. It acts like a wave because for example , we see colors - a light of different wavelenght. As we dont know how the laser affects the energy shield (in real life there is no such thing, the technology is not that advanced but have you ever hear about ION PROPULSION? it exists, really, and the idea was taken from science-fiction book:) we do know how it affects solids - it heats them and burn them - thus -> lasers do thermal damage mainly :) what do you think?
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Shandling
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Posted - 2006.12.11 09:52:00 -
[25]
Better idea... let's just give in and give Amarr ships projectile bonuses.
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Bardi MecAuldnis
Amarr Pirates of Destruction Union
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Posted - 2006.12.12 11:14:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Shandling Better idea... let's just give in and give Amarr ships projectile bonuses.
What worries me is that this seems like it'd have the greatest chance of being implemented --- Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!! |
volly
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Posted - 2006.12.12 11:19:00 -
[27]
What about:
If the Ship is in Struc lasers have a minimal 1-3% or something chance (surgical strike with lasers would increase this chance) to hit the POD ?
If you are lucky you could board the burning ship
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard
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Posted - 2006.12.12 11:26:00 -
[28]
Originally by: volly What about:
If the Ship is in Struc lasers have a minimal 1-3% or something chance (surgical strike with lasers would increase this chance) to hit the POD ?
If you are lucky you could board the burning ship
Perhaps not kill the pod, but atleast force it to eject and be unboardable for a minute or so. You need to patch the hole again before you take the ship :)
On the other hand, i have lately seen a great increas in laser usefullness on SiSi. Seems they do more damage, but it's still a hunch.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.12 11:32:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Saaitar Well , a bit different idea: amarr complain about uselesness of EM damage type against ships in general (caldari always wear the EM hardeners and minmatar ships has 70% of thermal passive EM resistance etc). From my experience, I know that one of the most nasty damage type is Thermal so why not make the thermal damage the primary for lasers? From physics I know that the light has corpuscular-wave nature...it means it both acts like a solid or wave. It acts like a solid because it is idea of equipping modern satellites and probes (the real ones) with so-called sun sails - sails that will move the probe using the force of a solar wind. It acts like a wave because for example , we see colors - a light of different wavelenght. As we dont know how the laser affects the energy shield (in real life there is no such thing, the technology is not that advanced but have you ever hear about ION PROPULSION? it exists, really, and the idea was taken from science-fiction book:) we do know how it affects solids - it heats them and burn them - thus -> lasers do thermal damage mainly :) what do you think?
Basically, if you turn lasers to thermal damage people stop fitting EAN tanks and start fitting tri-hardener tanks.
Then you are back to square 1.
Basically you have a situation where.
Tri-hardener : 55% resists to 3, 0 resists to 1 EANM/DC : 48% resists to all
The EANM/DC tank is attractive because ships lose about 15% resistances to all in order to shore up a big hole in their defence[though Minmatar might be better off with an omni hardener with the huge EM bonus they get, depends]. The higher base resists of the highest damage type, the more attractive the tri-hardener gets.
The more damage you take in the tri-hardener typed damage, the more attactive it gets, and the less damage you take in the non hardened the more attractive it gets.
If you give Amarr primarily laser damage, only Caldari are going to be able to do a significant amount of EM damage, and people are going to change from an EM specific to the tri-hardener. Because Amarr are not longer doing as much EM, instead of boosting Amarr damage due to resistances, it simply lowers everyone elses[except Caldari who can fit EM missiles] ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
gu o
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.12.13 19:53:00 -
[30]
Edited by: gu o on 13/12/2006 20:23:46 This is a great idea good one OP. (please rename the topic "look tux I fixed EvE, no thanks needed just a paycheck")
This would actually help out eve alot if you think about it. It would make shield tanking viable and highly practical in PVP situation as blocking out the structual damage would be a high priority.
Shield tanking boost:
This would get a major boost in numbers used as shields block the structual damage. So basically they would be seen more and more in combat. And I have a feeling that most amarrians will not argue about the EM resistances on shields with hardeners. Its the same with projectiles and armour.
Armour tanks:
Using armour tanks in PVP would become not a guarantee but instead a chanced option. With the implement of this you would see the number of armour tanking ships go down. And they would be killable from an amarrian stand point. It would take ages to get thru their structure.
Issues:
One major issue you could face is the rate at wich structure is lost. If its too high Amarrians are suddently overpowered. But at the same time not enough saturation and they are not changed. I am doing some math numbers at work as to the bleed thru rate based on armour damage. Something to the tune of 10% damage done to armour transfering to stucture.
Structure bleed through:
I think a 10% of the damage done to armour is viable number. If the lasers are hitting 50's -150's your gonna only get a bleed through of 5-15 damage, not all that much in the sheme of bs's. maybe a 25% of damage delt to armour? so 12.5 damage bleed thru for a 50 damage shot? I dunno maybe to high to low who knows ccp can plug numbers into calculators as well. have at it tux this Is my FAVORITE idea so far for amarrians. bringing PVP in eve back to a ballance, shields are getting used and amarrians can actually win a fight vs armour.
Fix Lasers give them a bleed through to structure bonus! Bleed through only effects armour though, something like a 15% damage of the inflicted armour damage bleeds to structure. |
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