Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |

Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
123
|
Posted - 2015.08.29 01:56:18 -
[1] - Quote
My initial reaction after reading through your proposals are
1B - no 2A - no 2B - no 3 - no 4 - probably no 5A - no 5B - no 5C - no
I'll give my reasons when I have some more time. |

Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
125
|
Posted - 2015.08.29 10:57:41 -
[2] - Quote
Avvy wrote:My initial reaction after reading through your proposals are
1B - no 2A - no 2B - no 3 - no 4 - probably no 5A - no 5B - no 5C - no
I'll give my reasons when I have some more time.
Ok, I'll expand on this now.
1B Change wardec fees
Can't see it discouraging blanket wardec as all they will do is use multiple corps.
Also don't see that encouraging smaller corps to wardec is a good idea as all what will happen is some pilots would form a corp (maybe even a solo corp) just for the purposes of trying to harass the corps they wardec.
Also don't see why you should try to reduce the amount of times a larger corp can wardec smaller corps. After all part of EVE is the idea of thebig fish' little fish.
2A Tax NPC corps
Most people don't like taxes.
You wouldn't encourage them to leave an NPC corp all you will do is encourage them to leave the game.
They are not safe in a NPC corp as suicide gankers have demonstrated time and time again.
What about the safety of player corps that are created for just market trading?
2B Player corp history (standing)
So all corps would gain, larger ones even more so. Thought your idea was to make high-sec less profitable.
The only corps that would lose are those that do disband. That should give an advantage to larger corps that are unlikely to disband.
Also what would happen to the corp attribute when a pilot leaves? All I see happening is corps won't disband they will just leave a caretaker alt in charge.
3 Adjust hisec agents
I guess you are worried about CONCORD response times as you singled out 0.9 and 1.0 systems.
The reason the agents are spread out and that level 4s are also spread out (like other levels) is so you don't end up with too many pilots in the same systems. |

Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
125
|
Posted - 2015.08.29 11:15:22 -
[3] - Quote
Avvy wrote:My initial reaction after reading through your proposals are
1B - no 2A - no 2B - no 3 - no 4 - probably no 5A - no 5B - no 5C - no
I'll give my reasons when I have some more time.
4 Incursions (risk vs reward in general)
I don't see how you can balance risk v's reward as that changes all of the time.
For instance you must get quiet times in player owned null so although the reward remains constant the risk changes.
But anyway CCP should be in a better position to evaluate what incursions should pay-out.
5A Limit higher quality ore variants (shift profitability towards lower security systems)
Shifting mining profitability towards lower security (but still high-sec) space, would have a tendency to clump the mining population together instead of them being more spread out throughout high-sec.
I'm starting to think one of your agendas is to reduce CONCORD response times.
5B shift the ore security scale (towards lower security)
Same issue as 5A.
5C Balance the Procurer and Skiff
Thought that had been done already. As I understand it the Covetor and Hulk have a slightly different roll. For instance Hulks are for mining in groups with support ships so they don't have to keep going back to the station to unload, hence they have a smaller ore hold.
|

Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
125
|
Posted - 2015.08.29 12:06:04 -
[4] - Quote
Aoife Fraoch wrote: Though I am still far more in favour of carrots over sticks to change player behaviour. EVE has had many examples of sticks failing utterly to achieve their stated aims.
In RL you can't always choose between the carrot and the stick.
In a game however, you can always choose to follow the carrot, because with the stick method people can just opt out.
|

Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
125
|
Posted - 2015.08.29 12:14:59 -
[5] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Avvy wrote:Aoife Fraoch wrote: Though I am still far more in favour of carrots over sticks to change player behaviour. EVE has had many examples of sticks failing utterly to achieve their stated aims.
In RL you can't always choose between the carrot and the stick. In a game however, you can always choose to follow the carrot, because with the stick method people can just opt out. If you only change the game with carrots, you might as well just give isk away for runaway inflation. Rebalances do not mean buffs across the board. The nail that stands up gets pounded down. The nail by the way is highsec.
Granted, but by the same token you can't expect to make someone's game worse for them and expect them to put up with it. |

Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
125
|
Posted - 2015.08.29 12:30:42 -
[6] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Avvy wrote: Granted, but by the same token you can't expect to make someone's game worse for them and expect them to put up with it.
I damn sure can, they've been doing it to me for a decade. It's about time carebears got to see how that tastes, in fact it's long past time. They've had their way for ten years, highsec has gotten safer and safer, and their blithe promises of more "casual players" has not come true, nor will it ever. Instead the game stagnates, and lowsec in particular lies largely empty. It's time the pendulum swings the other way, and it will be a net loss for them, and rightly so. I don't expect them to like it, they're being nerfed after all, but what's good for the goose is finally going to be good for the gander, so if those hypocrites have a problem with it, they shouldn't have spent the last decade arguing for things they don't like to get nerfed.
All very well, but it's CCP that ultimately makes the decisions.
CCP must have had their reasons for the changes, beyond carebears just asking for them. |

Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
125
|
Posted - 2015.08.29 12:38:41 -
[7] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote: we will see what they do about it.
Yes, it should be interesting.
|

Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
127
|
Posted - 2015.08.29 23:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tengu Grib wrote:Aoife Fraoch wrote:Ganking (and can flipping too, which was an interesting mechanic prior to ore holds) is only one part of this problem frankly. At least to my perspective, the larger one if getting people into corps with workable war dec mechanics.
Tax on NPC corps did not really fix the problem, and just lead to disposable single person corps everywhere, as with dropping corp. I am not sure of the solution, but making it make sense for groups of people for whom PVP is incidental to their game play to work in groups and to have something worth fighting for as a the goal might lead to a better outcome than just swinging the nerf bat. Personally I'd like to see the advantages of being in a player corp and remaining there being such that nerfs to npc corps simply aren't necessary. There will always be people in them, out of corp freighters for instance, but that's not that big of a problem (or it wouldn't be if we gave the people who are there to mission and mine in 'safety' a reason to join a player corp.
I think the process of joining a corp in this game is different too, like full api required. Whereas in other games you just join one often with no real requirements. |

Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
133
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 21:43:33 -
[9] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:[EvE is built around the concept of Risk vs. Reward. In hisec, this concept is currently broken because players who risk less by staying in NPC corps can gain nearly as much in terms of rewards as those who take the additional risk of forming/joining player corps.
I'm not sure that concept works properly anywhere in-game.
But anyway, I don't see any of your proposals in post #1, #2 and #3 improving anything in high-sec, I just see them as creating other issues. Of which I've noted in my posts #162 and #163.
If anything it will just make things easier than they already are for suicide gankers and possibly small disposable corps.
I certainly couldn't vote for you with that set of proposals, although I don't think much of high-sec as it is, I really don't see them as improving anything.
|

Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
133
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 21:53:05 -
[10] - Quote
admiral root wrote:If suicide ganking is so easy why is it so rare?
Is it that rare?
Maybe because some players are paying for protection?
Although, I take it from your comment you would welcome changes that made suicide ganking easier.
|

Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
133
|
Posted - 2015.08.31 22:03:03 -
[11] - Quote
admiral root wrote:I welcome changes that increase highsec content and address the current imbalance in risk and reward. If, in some biazzaro scenario, yet another nerf to ganking would be good for the health for the game, I'd be all for it.
Fair comment.
If I saw proposed changes that would actually improve high-sec without creating other issues, then I'd be all for them. |

Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
172
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 09:02:37 -
[12] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote: Again, I'm not trying to take people out of hisec. I think that a thriving hisec is key to EvE succeeding. I just think that people in hisec need to experience a level of risk commensurate with their income. The more risk you take, the more income potential you should have. That's the key, underlying, consistent factor behind most of my proposed changes.It's not about moving people, it's not about forcing people to do something they don't want or in a way they don't want to do it., it's about balancing risk vs. reward.
I do feel that having more people in player corps would be good for the game...but I'm not forcing anyone to leave an NPC corp, hisec, or their given playstyles.
You want to make those in high-sec easier targets whilst at the same time reducing their income.
If you achieve that then most would just leave the game. |

Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
172
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 09:43:07 -
[13] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Avvy wrote:You want to make those in high-sec easier targets whilst at the same time reducing their income.
If you achieve that then most would just leave the game. Highsec needs an adjustment though. It either needs to stay safe and have the rewards reduced, or keep the current rewards and made more risky. The current state of low risk, high reward is impacting the rest of the game. Much of the current malaise in the game is a direct result of this risk vs. reward imbalance. Veterans who should be populating the more risky spaces are choosing to grind ISK and do industry in safety in highsec and the rest of the game is suffering.
I keep hearing risk/reward, but what is risk/reward in this game as risk isn't a constant.
If you want risk/reward to be more equal, then you would have to make all regions null, but even then the larger corps/alliances will have a degree of safety. The old saying - safety in numbers.
Veterans choosing to stay in high-sec stay there for a reason, probably partially because it's safe in NPC corps, except against suicide gankers and partially for the isk. There's nothing you can do to force them into low-sec or null, if they don't want to be there. If you try, all they will do is leave the game. The only ones you may force to go to low-sec or null are the alts of those that are already in low-sec and null. Even some of those alts are probably in high-sec just to take a break from low-sec or null instead of playing/doing something else. Even the op sayings he's had enough of null. |

Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
172
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 10:24:03 -
[14] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote: If you made all PvE in lowsec say play 10 times the amount it does now, do you not think that many players would move there? There are terrible downsides for the economy for that proposal so I am not advocating it, but I am sure there would be a mass migration of players out of highsec.
I can't see missioners wanting to go to low-sec even with 10x the reward.
The cost of a lost ship and the rep hit just wouldn't be worth it.
|

Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
172
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 10:47:03 -
[15] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Avvy wrote:Black Pedro wrote: If you made all PvE in lowsec say play 10 times the amount it does now, do you not think that many players would move there? There are terrible downsides for the economy for that proposal so I am not advocating it, but I am sure there would be a mass migration of players out of highsec.
I can't see missioners wanting to go to low-sec even with 10x the reward. The cost of a lost ship and the rep hit just wouldn't be worth it. And yet people do run missions in low-sec, even with the rewards and safety currently being better in highsec.
That depends on the cost of the ship and the mission pay out also depends who you know and if you already know the region.
I'm sure at least some of the CODE players have mining alts, doubt they have to worry too much about CODE suicide ganking them. Same would go for low-sec if someone operates there anyway then an alt will more than likely be willing to do missions there.
Of course you also get newbros doing or attempting to do missions there just to try it out.
Problem with a mission in low-sec is... if your ship is destroyed, there is no point taking another there to finish the mission as they would still be there waiting for you. |

Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
172
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 11:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
admiral root wrote:So you agree that players do currently run missions in lowsec, which makes nonsense of your claim that no-one will do it if the risk / reward imbalance is corrected? Excellent.
I was talking specifically about those that don't have any ties with low-sec. I wasn't talking about faction warfare missions either, just in case you also include that.
But anyway this line of reasoning is pointless as neither of us is going to agree with the other person's view point on this subject. |

Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
172
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 12:18:33 -
[17] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote: I think what you mean to say is that you are too timid to go to lowsec.
Many players are however comfortable taking that risk. They don't take that risk because it doesn't make sense financially. If you could make 1B ISK/h running missions in lowsec, many players would risk a few hundred million ISK ship to do so. This would trash the economy of course so is a bad idea, but as a thought experiment it proves the general notion.
Look at exploration, one of the few PvE activities that seems reasonably balanced. Explorers leave highsec all the time to chase the significantly increased rewards in the other spaces. It is expected you do so by those in the profession as soon as you can fly a covert ops ship. Staying in highsec is just not worth the time.
Some players are risk-averse and will always stay in highec. Many more are just smart and are there because the risk vs. reward balance is head-and-shoulders above any other space (except perhaps highend WHs) and pays them the most for their time.
It is this second group that CCP needs to get out of highsec to fix the game.
I don't do missions, only missions I would be interested in are pirate missions and that's more for the rep. and those tend to be more in null.
Most solo missions in high-sec. Can level 5s even be soloed and what would be the cost of a ship and fittings that could actually solo a level 5? |

Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
175
|
Posted - 2015.09.06 13:29:55 -
[18] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Avvy wrote:You want to make those in high-sec easier targets whilst at the same time reducing their income. If you achieve that then most would just leave the game. Make that "and" an "or" and you about have it right. You would only become easier targets if you joined a player corp and/or left the highest security systems*. You would only have your income reduced if you stayed in an NPC corp and/or stayed in the highest security systems*. Either or, not both. You seem to think that I want to nerf hisec outright, and that couldn't be further from the truth. *Note: I'm still talking hisec here. 0.5s/0.6s vs 0.9s/1.0s. EDIT: Would you be less put off by proposals if, instead of including a set of taxes on NPC corps, I focused entirely on buffing hisec corps? I laid out something here but I'm still fleshing it out. Also, you've had a lot to say about my ideas. Do you have any of your own? I'd love to hear them.
I've said before that I don't think much of high-sec as it is, especially as it's supposed to be a PvP game (talking combat PvP).
Only reason I rejected your proposals is that I see them creating other issues.
If I think of something that does not create more issues in trying to solve others then I'll be sure to post them in the ideas section of the forum. |
|
|