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Tier 2 BC's vs HAC's

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 11 post(s)
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.11 13:39:00 - [31] Originally by: Fodderrr Originally by: Yar0 BC lvl5, med blaster spec lvl 4...brutix will rip apart most hacs...exept vagabond, cause it can run away Nope it will do what any other minmatar ship with barrage ammo would do and just kite ya ive killed a vaga with a brutix using electron blasters. they can try and kite you, wont always work tho *Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar*
DeadDuck Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.11 13:40:00 - [32] The last advantage of the HAc is the average speed and smaller sig radius. In the end they are more fun to fly around, BUT the fact that tier2 BC can make almost the same role at a fraction of the HAC price plus the fact that the Tier2 BC can handle in the big majority a HAC on is own will driven this ships to be a rare seen, at least with the prices at current levels. On a side note I am pleased to see a lot of HAC prices starting to fall and good amounts of supply in the market, at least for the ones that I can fly (Amarr). I'm not seeing my self buying one HAC on a near future, but already bought 2 Harbingers
infraX Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.12.11 14:34:00 - [33] Originally by: Pottsey ôHAC's have the better resists but Tier2 BC's have a lot more base hitpoints now.ö HACS donÆt have better resistance. Command ships have the same base resistance as a HAC only half of them have +25% resistance as a bonus and another 22.5% or more from gang assist. Add on the right gang assit and they can be pretty fast as well. Command ships also got a large boost to the agile spec. TIER 2 != TECH 2 This thread is not about command ships.
Imhotep Khem Total Mayhem. Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.11 19:19:00 - [34] I have not owned a HAC in a long time. I fly Minmatar. Vagabond is too expensive for what it does. Muninn does not do much. Tier 2 BC gives me even less reason to purchace a HAC. I doubt I will ever buy a HAC unless they do something special with the Muninn. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2006.12.11 20:20:00 - [35] Well the first thing we need to realize is that HAC's do not cost anywhere near what people are selling them for to build, not even close. HAC's cost 150m+ because the people making them have decided that is simply what they are going to sell them for and if they are getting bought at 150mill then there is no incentive for anyone to lower prices now is there?. tier 2 BC's are awsome, they are meant to fill the gap between tier 1 BC's and BS's so it only makes sense they are signifigantly better than the tier 1 BC's. With the appearance of tier 2 Battlecruisers alot more people that would have spent 150 mill on a HAC will instead choose to spend their money on a much cheaper tier 2 BC which is not quite as strong as a HAC but its Cost/power ratio is MUCH lower than that of a HAC. Because tier 2 BC's are not tech 2 (so bps are seeded) alot of people will be making them so the prices will be extremely reasonable and with many people buying them instead of the horribly overpriced hac's (you all know your selling them for way too much) it will drive the prices of HAC down to a reasonable level (about bloody time too).
Cupdeez Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.11 20:26:00 - [36] Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky Hacs are still more powerful imo for the same reasons previously mentioned: 1) skills - a Hac pilot with very few exceptions will fit a full T2 setup or better and have the complementary skills trained to max or near max potential. This makes Hac pilots fantastic cruiser pilots and very dangerous in a Hac. These skills also mean that most Hac pilots are familiar with their ships and are not afraid to use them in combat. 2) Resistances - this is a big deal and oftain under-estimated even in PvP - the passive resitances of hacs are simply out of this world good and very easy to boost to phenomenal levels. To think that a Hac is 'just a cruiser' is to ignore their amazing damage and tanking abuility. 3) speed - I find that as I get older, I look for smaller ships that can perform more. Like many pilots, I went streight for the Raven because of its massive damage potential and soon found it lacking. Of course, with missle skills and t2 torps being trained to high levels, the Raven or any other BB that I chose to fly is still massive - but I am slow. The Hac will hit harder then a noob BB and still maintain its high speed and tactical advantage - and these are very good in small gang engadgments. Speed is not a luxery anymore, it is a survival tool - and hacs bring speed and power together. -- The price is prohibitive, but the advantages of using one - especcially hacs with unique roles such as he Vega, or those that can really dish out the damge like the Ish or the Zelot will always remain in high demand and add a lot of potential to a group. I wish T2 BPOs would get seeded like all other BPOs though, then we could all enjoy these ships without being too worried about losing them - they are afterall, simply a cruiser Come down to 0.0 and I'll fight you 1v1 you in the Hac and me in a BC. I got 500m that says I will win. In my tier 1 BC i coult take most hacs down. In the tier 2 BC's I can take all hac's down 1v1. (saying no EW) Signature filesize exceeds max limit of 24000 bytes. Mail us if you have questions -Eldo Davip
Megadon Caldari Deathshead Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.11 20:41:00 - [37] HAC's and BC's are different things. I used to hate BC's but since they got a 20% agility boost, they're bearable. I fly amarr and caldari hacs. I have a Drake, don't have a Harbinger yet, but I hear good things about it. The Eagle is in a class by itself, no BC can do what it does. Cerb, Sac, Zealot... maybe a BC can do what they do in a different way. To me, you can't really say a BC is better than a HAC or visa versa, theyre just different tools. I like HACs better, but I think saying one is just better than the other in general terms is like saying a hammer is better than a screwdriver. I think usually a HAC pilot will kill a BC pilot but that is just because a lot of HAC pilots are older players. Lots of 3 month old players in BC's these days.
Phantom Harlock Gallente Righteous-Indignation Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.12 02:44:00 - [38] Originally by: Pottsey ôHAC's have the better resists but Tier2 BC's have a lot more base hitpoints now.ö HACS donÆt have better resistance. Command ships have the same base resistance as a HAC only half of them have +25% resistance as a bonus and another 22.5% or more from gang assist. Add on the right gang assit and they can be pretty fast as well. Command ships also got a large boost to the agile spec. Get your wording right. There's a big difference between BCs and Command Ships(Elite BCs) and HACs. If you're trying to compare HACs to Command Ships, that's an obvious big difference.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2006.12.12 02:53:00 - [39] for missions i definatly say go with the BC just due to cost. the teir 1 or teir 2 BC cost less and insure for full value. though a full T2 launcher drake is about 60mil in HML IIs.
Rockbox Amarr Veto.	Posted - 2006.12.12 03:04:00 - [40] Put it this way, my Harbinger has never lost a fight between me and my corpies Zealot. Let me add by stating my corpie, has lvl 5 in all his Gunnery support and he may have hac 5 but if not it is 4, I have my support skills to 4/5 and BC 4 The Harbinger is the pwnage, no doubt
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.12 03:14:00 - [41] Originally by: Pottsey öIsk for isk no one doubts a BC is better.. but the HACs are still better solo ships.ö Command ships are much better solo ships then HACS. ShouldnÆt it be HACS to Command ships as well as its T2 vT2. You cannot directly compare HACs to command ships because even the Field Commandships are not pure heavy combat ships like AFs and HACs. If they were, they'd have all four bonuses geared towards gank and tank like the AF and HAC bonus sets. They'd possibly have extra weapon hardpoints/dronebays(well Gallente do have this one). They're similiar, but not a direct upgrade like AF to HAC. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Altterra	Posted - 2006.12.12 10:38:00 - [42] I've never been the proud owner of the isk-sink that is HAC's, but i've flown a brutix for a long time now and killed 3 different HACs in it, i can only imagine what i could do in the myrmidon since my skills are leaning more towards drones than gunnery... I still have no desire to purchase a HAC and definitly not with the new delicious ships out, yum yum!
Waagaa Ktlehr Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.12 11:12:00 - [43] Originally by: Rockbox Put it this way, my Harbinger has never lost a fight between me and my corpies Zealot. Let me add by stating my corpie, has lvl 5 in all his Gunnery support and he may have hac 5 but if not it is 4, I have my support skills to 4/5 and BC 4 The Harbinger is the pwnage, no doubt A Zealout outranges AND outruns a Harbinger.. You should not be hitting him tbh. :) - - One ship to jam them all, one ship to damp them. One ship to suck them dry and in the dark void gank them.
NeoGeist	Posted - 2006.12.12 12:15:00 - [44] Originally by: Tisanta Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker HACs are not better then BCs, id take my drake over a HAC tbh. it insures better, has an awsome tank, great DPS and much higher Versitility. That's because the Drake is an I-Win button. Thats not what the other 4 people said after i solo pwned them in my pilgrim.. Well, a pilgrim isn't really a HAC now is it? Btw, I <3 pilgrims and curses . Oh, and to add in my 2 cents for HAC's vs. t2 BC's, Ishtar imo is the only hac that's actually worth it's price. It like an uber myrmidon on steroids. Oh, and the ishtar can actually field 5x heavies w/ backup/meds or lights.
Imaos	Posted - 2006.12.12 17:43:00 - [45] Originally by: NeoGeist Oh, and to add in my 2 cents for HAC's vs. t2 BC's, Ishtar imo is the only hac that's actually worth it's price. It like an uber myrmidon on steroids. Oh, and the ishtar can actually field 5x heavies w/ backup/meds or lights. With Revelations I prefer the BC repper bonus and the new hp over the dronehold bonus of the Ishtar. Especially some missions deal too much damage to the Ishtar now where a bc has enough timw to pop some enemies until he can rep more than he takes.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.12.12 18:01:00 - [46] I got Hac5 and minnie cruiser 5 plus heavy/interfacing drones to 5. Yet, instead of going for gallente cruiser 5 and an ishtar, Im going for bc5 because the Myrmidon with t2 tank RULEZ! Im sick of paying tremendous prices for a BC replacement. Throw an intertia stab and/or nano on the low and your tier2 BC is approaching the manueverability and survivability of a HAC.(t2 tank with 2x med repprs on a Mrymidon is SICK) ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
Shadarle	Posted - 2006.12.12 19:18:00 - [47] I wonder how many people in this thread have actually flown all the ships in question. As a Caldari I have flown the Cerberus, which is considered one of the better HACS. It is one of the most expensive for sure. The Drake completely dominates the Cerb in almost every way. Anyone flying a Cerb for PvE is foolish imo, the Drake will perform 95% of missions faster and the other 5% will be a toss up. And in PVP the Cerb is just too much money to use it over a drake. Even if they were equal in cost I'd take a Drake in every single instance. The Drake out-tanks the Cerb, it Outdamages the Cerb and it has lots more fittings so it is more versatile. To top things off, the drake has drones and the Cerb doesn't... The Cerberus is now a worthless ship. I can't understand why its price hasn't dropped substantially yet, perhaps people just havn't realized how out-classed it is yet. I'm saying all this as someone who has flown the Cerb on over 50 missions and the drake on about that many as well now. The drake is plenty fast/maneuverable with the new upgrades to BC agility they put in... so unless you absolutely need that 70m/sec for some reason you are insane to sacrifice so much DPS/Tanking/ISK. ********************************************** Tank Rankings - Ships & Fittings Compared! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=386174
NIkis	Posted - 2006.12.12 19:37:00 - [48] What i can say for myself is i'm happy things go this way , and the isk printing machines that were HAC BPOs will lose some of their value. All this ranting is really unnecessary, wait till the new tech2 BC come out and you will see the same useless comparisons again. As someone said, every ship got its role. Cerb can still hit at an insane range and imo thats its main advantage not resists or whatever else. Things in Eve evolve (both the player-driven ones like alliances and POS, and the CCP-driven ones), and thats what I like most about it :)
Brother Tycho Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.12 19:50:00 - [49] Harbinger with tech 2 Tank and 2 MAR II with its drone space pwns Sacralige and Zelot nuff said (hint drone bays aint only for attack drones).
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.12.12 22:11:00 - [50] Originally by: Pottsey ôHAC's have the better resists but Tier2 BC's have a lot more base hitpoints now.ö HACS donÆt have better resistance. Command ships have the same base resistance as a HAC only half of them have +25% resistance as a bonus and another 22.5% or more from gang assist. Add on the right gang assit and they can be pretty fast as well. Command ships also got a large boost to the agile spec. dude, first of all we're talking about tier 2 BC's not about command ships second of all how do command ship all have same or better resistances? Please dare to tell me the sleipnir has better or even the same resistances as a vaga?
Wega Noir Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2006.12.13 06:32:00 - [51] Originally by: Shadarle I wonder how many people in this thread have actually flown all the ships in question. As a Caldari I have flown the Cerberus, which is considered one of the better HACS. It is one of the most expensive for sure. The Drake completely dominates the Cerb in almost every way. Anyone flying a Cerb for PvE is foolish imo, the Drake will perform 95% of missions faster and the other 5% will be a toss up. And in PVP the Cerb is just too much money to use it over a drake. Even if they were equal in cost I'd take a Drake in every single instance. The Drake out-tanks the Cerb, it Outdamages the Cerb and it has lots more fittings so it is more versatile. To top things off, the drake has drones and the Cerb doesn't... The Cerberus is now a worthless ship. I can't understand why its price hasn't dropped substantially yet, perhaps people just havn't realized how out-classed it is yet. I'm saying all this as someone who has flown the Cerb on over 50 missions and the drake on about that many as well now. The drake is plenty fast/maneuverable with the new upgrades to BC agility they put in... so unless you absolutely need that 70m/sec for some reason you are insane to sacrifice so much DPS/Tanking/ISK. As the original poster, I couldn't have said a better reply. As to all those people in this thread that said you can't compare a Tier 2 BC to a HAC, well, your retarded. Both are cruisers, both are designed for direct enemy action. One type just happens to do 95% of mission profiles better and yet cost 1/4 the isk. *I am become death, the destroyer of worlds...*
OrangeAfroMan Minmatar Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.12.13 06:50:00 - [52] Originally by: Rockbox Put it this way, my Harbinger has never lost a fight between me and my corpies Zealot. Let me add by stating my corpie, has lvl 5 in all his Gunnery support and he may have hac 5 but if not it is 4, I have my support skills to 4/5 and BC 4 The Harbinger is the pwnage, no doubt This may be true but he would (should) have been able to just go out of scram range and warp if things got bad -> he doesnt die -> he didn't lose. Also, you can think of your 1v1 with his Zealot when you jump through a gate, only to be met by 5 camping battleships who lock, scram, and ream your BC, where his Zealot would have reached warp fast enough or been able to outrun them and warp away.
OrangeAfroMan Minmatar Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.12.13 06:54:00 - [53] Originally by: Wega Noir As the original poster, I couldn't have said a better reply. As to all those people in this thread that said you can't compare a Tier 2 BC to a HAC, well, your retarded. Both are cruisers, both are designed for direct enemy action. One type just happens to do 95% of mission profiles better and yet cost 1/4 the isk. No they are NOT both cruisers!! Are you high?!?! Battlecruiser, just because it has cruiser in the name, does NOT mean its a cruiser! wtf.........
Sari Yanma	Posted - 2006.12.13 07:55:00 - [54] Originally by: OrangeAfroMan Originally by: Wega Noir As the original poster, I couldn't have said a better reply. As to all those people in this thread that said you can't compare a Tier 2 BC to a HAC, well, your retarded. Both are cruisers, both are designed for direct enemy action. One type just happens to do 95% of mission profiles better and yet cost 1/4 the isk. No they are NOT both cruisers!! Are you high?!?! Battlecruiser, just because it has cruiser in the name, does NOT mean its a cruiser! wtf......... Ok, it's not a cruiser. So what? It's just a name. What counts is combat behaviour, efficiency and cost to get said efficiency. What are HACs for ? Basically, pwning anything cruiser and below. BCs do that quite decently for a fraction of the price. They're both challenged by the same ships (BS for start), and BCs behave quite well against HACs by themselves. So we have two classes of ships whose place in the eve food chain seems seriously comparable, and one cost 30-40% of the price of the other, while being nicely refunded with insurance and more readily available due to no need of T2 BPO ? Tough choice...
dabster Minmatar Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.12.13 08:06:00 - [55] Hurricane for the mother-effing WIN when it comes to solo'ing. Im NEVER paying more than 50 mil for a Vagabond again, thats for sure. ___________________________ Brutors Rule! My Eve-vids; Click.
Sorela Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.13 08:24:00 - [56] Please go compare interceptors to tier 1 BC's while you are at it. I want to read that thread too since I'm pretty bored.
Reiisha Satal's Legion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.13 08:31:00 - [57] Originally by: Pottsey ôHAC's have the better resists but Tier2 BC's have a lot more base hitpoints now.ö HACS donÆt have better resistance. Command ships have the same base resistance as a HAC only half of them have +25% resistance as a bonus and another 22.5% or more from gang assist. Add on the right gang assit and they can be pretty fast as well. Command ships also got a large boost to the agile spec. Pottsey, the discussion is about tier 2 BC's, not tech 2 BC's. EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
NeoGeist	Posted - 2006.12.13 08:36:00 - [58] Originally by: Imaos Originally by: NeoGeist Oh, and to add in my 2 cents for HAC's vs. t2 BC's, Ishtar imo is the only hac that's actually worth it's price. It like an uber myrmidon on steroids. Oh, and the ishtar can actually field 5x heavies w/ backup/meds or lights. With Revelations I prefer the BC repper bonus and the new hp over the dronehold bonus of the Ishtar. Especially some missions deal too much damage to the Ishtar now where a bc has enough timw to pop some enemies until he can rep more than he takes. Well, missions are quite different from pvp. Also, w/ the resists for the ishtar, you shouldn't have much problems w/ missions. The myrm only has a 125m drone bay, which is only good for 4x heavies and 5x lights. You absolutely need 5x lights for the webber frigs in missions, thus, the ishtar does more dps and is more versatile since it can field 5x lights and 5x heavies. It might not tank as well as the myrm, but if you're doing a serp/mordus mission, it's smooth sailing.
MOCC3	Posted - 2006.12.13 11:12:00 - [59] Originally by: Zar Dim BCs have huge sig radius. And thus will be wtfbbq-ed by BS. But apart from that they are more cost effective compared to HAC. Not always Tru. i smoked a Tempest with my Hurricane.. Tracking disruptors are nasty VS a Teampest bad tracking guns. the new BC will pwn most ship hands down with correct skill a good pilot.
Yamaeda	Posted - 2006.12.13 11:41:00 - [60] Originally by: Pottsey ôHAC's have the better resists but Tier2 BC's have a lot more base hitpoints now.ö HACS donÆt have better resistance. Command ships have the same base resistance as a HAC only half of them have +25% resistance as a bonus and another 22.5% or more from gang assist. Tier 2 BC's, not Tech 2. Tier - approx. version Tech - Technological level Harbringer - Tier 2 Absolution - Tech 2 /Y ---------- It's great being Amarr, ain't it?

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