Two tengus beat out everything, warp faster, move faster, fire faster, has dedicated damage ammo. I find the mach ammo lacks a good deal against Kinetic rats compared to Furies, EMP L just rapes Sansha and Blood though

But more importantly if you are flying Nighthawk you already have the missile skills. Unless you have Projectile Large V Tengu all the way.


And just to be different

Mach does 1.2k dps against all rats, 75km, 100km available with barrage, but only usable for Minmatar rats due to dmg type. Tengu does 700 dps kinetic, 500 dps non-kinetic, 100 km. Projectile ammo for kinetic is kin/therm mix, which matches primary/secondary resist weakness. It's tengu dps against non-kinetic rats that are luckluster.

All true well I can't get 1200 dps out of a mach not yet anyway even counting in my Ogre IIs.... Maybe if I made a clone with +5 damage and used Hail I might reach that high with drones.


When I do run the Mach at the moment I can still finish missions quicker with 2 tengus than the Mach and Tengu. If I ever get the gun skills up maybe I will run it full time. But 9 million in gun skills and still training. Of course I have T2 Large Hybrids both branches still working on Projectile.

I get 767dps from my tengu with kinetic fury that is almost the max and I don't care to train for the other 20 dps or whatever.

once you are used to missiles all other weapons will seem like too much effort.

Multi-tengus are good (I assume... those I haven't actually seen in action)

Multi-tengu is just silly. You end up killing crap so fast that ya, it turns into work to manage both accounts.

looking to do my missions as quick as pos.I have 3 accounts 2 using a nighthawk and one to clean up the field. Is there anything i could buy to Complete the missions quicker?

Golem, Nightmare ect.........

Thanks for any posts

Counting missile volleys on both accounts at the same time, lol. It's harder to do than turning on guns on both accounts when rats pop. With 2 tengus (tengi?) you get the same dps as one Mach if on kinetic rats. 3 for non kinetic dps.

See, thats the point here. The Op has 3 accounts, one of them is a salvager. Now mach own tengu 1vs1 in mission running. But when you have to control 2 mission boats and one salvager, mach is too much micromanagement imo. With tengu's, orbit a can and keep firing. Its far simpler..

I still don't see the mach fanbase. Too much work, working on optimal and all that ****. Just fire and forget. I will stick with my tengus. Did I mention drones? Drones suck

2 kinds of people : People that have flown Mach and that have not.

The ones with the mach go in every mission like they own it, they smack everything down , they are like freaking berserkers that you can't face and live, every shot a kill, every movement a sprint, every enemy a wreck.

If you carry heavy drones you pick em up because you're much faster than them, if you carry light drones they don't get to reach the frigate because you've already shot it and are already moving on to cruisers. If you carry sentries you drop em off , like kids at school, clean the field and while shooting at the last ship you head to the sentries and pick em up, not that shooting up a BS takes that long but with 1500m/s speed you can afford to move around more than gila and ishtar together.

The people that fly other BS's and T3's, stay there and stay in 1 place and spend a ton of energy on tanking or dance around and slowly wear down their enemies, every mission a struggle, every ship kill an achievement. And drone ship , well they're just pathetic.

Mach is the one and only - the alpha and the omega, it's like all 4 raiders of the apocalypse in 1 deadly package.

Mach has become Death.

As a Mach pilot and someone who's tested the Vindicator, I can say that the Vindi now happily rivals the Mach post rail change.

The Vindi warps in, sits there and drops sentries and just duckshooting everything.

Edit: Forgot my EFTwarrior reference numbers . I did not make too many sacrifices on tank for these builds, I would fly any of these into a typical L4 and assuming all L5 skills:

Machariel: 942 dps / 1100 dps with 5x hammerheads (standard Mach fit, 4 gyros, 3 TEs)
Vindicator: 769 dps / 1009 dps with 4x garde IIs (3 mag stab vindi, I would not fly a 4 stab vindi)


I've done dps graphs between the Machariel and Vindicator many times over the past few months since a friend of mine flies a Vindicator, and his dps isn't too shabby at all if you include sentries. Without drones on either ship, the Machariel is the clear winner all the way out to 35km at which the Vindi is a bit better up to the ~75km mark.

However comparing my play style (no drones) using a standard Mach with 4 faction gyros vs a Vindi with 3 faction mag stabs and 4 garde IIs the Vindi starts performing better than the mach from about 12km and onwards, shooting at a raven that is running transversal perpendicular to our ships. You can add hammerhead to the Machariel which makes it outperform the Vindi to about the 30km mark at which they are neck and neck.

The added bonus to the Vindi that I like is that you can turn off 5 of the guns permarunning a faction LAR and three hards while still putting out 528 dps. The Machariel does not have that option, though the speed tank on it is formidable that one is a bit more effort to quantify.