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Is ammar really that bad?

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Draco letalis	Posted - 2006.12.11 19:55:00 - [1] i keep hearing about how ammar suck hard, but they got some of the coolest ships/story, so i just wanted it out in the open, do ammar suck? as i am considering starting one anny input would be helpfull Regards Draco Letalis
Caleb Paine ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.11 20:01:00 - [2] No, they don't suck. If you have the proper skills and actually know how to use them they're very viable. They're problem is that they can't change their damage type which doesn't help them but that doesn't mean they suck. They have very focussed ships and weaponsystems, you don't have to crosstrain much, which means you can specialise really well with Amarr. They do good damage, have good tanks and make the true pewpew(tm) sound. They're just not too good for PVE. -------------------------------- ISS Navy Task Force; Protecting your interest.
Ducius	Posted - 2006.12.11 20:04:00 - [3] so, even thoug they cant scratch a armor tank (or so i heard) they are still viable for small scale pvp as well as fleet? what are the advantages of ammar?
Caleb Paine ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.11 20:19:00 - [4] Edited by: Caleb Paine on 11/12/2006 20:26:09 people like to whine, simply because it's the one chance at being heard for some and/or because they are ignorant, remember; this is the retardweb. Everything has it's pros and cons and people like to exagerate the cons and forget about the pros hoping that enough whining might swing the pendulum to their side. I'm not saying they're uber or that they have no drawback, it's just that every race has it's limitations, you can whine about it but it might be more useful to try and work with the good things and work around the limitations. Amarr do very good damage, their guns have nice tracking and (for T1 at least) there's no ammo logistics needed. They can tank very well, they're just very focussed around their weapon system and tank. They don't do drones much (apart from a few ships), missiles isn't really used and they don't have to train shieldtanking (as Minmatar have to do, they use both shield as armor tanks). So again, very sturdy, simple, focussed shipdesigns. The only crosstraining you might consider is training minmatar guns (projectiles) at times this can be very useful, but this is no different from caldari having to train both hybrids and missiles, gallente needing hybrids and drones and minmatar needing projectiles, missiles AND drones. Some say they don't have fluff, others explain it as being focussed so not much crosstraining needed. It all depends on if you want to whine or not. On the damage thing; yes lasers do lots of EM damage and yes armor tanks have good EM resists, but thermal is quite crappy (it's the least tanked resist) so that kinda makes up for it. Also, no whining has ever stopped a geddon/prophecy/curse/pilgrim/zealot/omen/maller/punisher from killing stuff. Amarr hit like trucks, it's just that at ultra short range Gallente will outdamage them. -------------------------------- ISS Navy Task Force; Protecting your interest.
Zin Rathbone	Posted - 2006.12.11 20:48:00 - [5] In every mmo there is a class that is constantly ****ed on by everyone as being broken, and their problems are almost always exagerated. In Eve the luck winner in the Amarr. Their problems are greatly exagerated. Not immaginary, mind you, but exaggerated. They could use a little love, but are totally playable WITHIN THE RIGHT ROLES. Amarr are, for the most part, not that good at solo pvp. (Arbitrator/Curse/Pilgrim being excepted). They are fine in gangs, totally playable pve, and have some insanely tough ships. Their main weakness is the limited ability to change dammage types and a shortage of midslot for e-war. They are somewhat vulnerable to nos attacks to to heavy cap usage of their weapons. Try playing an Amarr, and if you like the playstyle stick with it. If its not fun for you then try something else. BTW, Galentee might be an option for crosstraining. They are both armor tanks, both gunships with drones (Galentee heavy on the drones, Amarr heavy on the guns). Their is a fair amount of overlap in their skill sets.
Berand AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.11 21:57:00 - [6] Edited by: Berand on 11/12/2006 21:57:17 Amarr don't suck. Every race has strong points and weak points. I can't stress just how good the fact that they don't need ammo is in 0.0, where there is no NPC market at all. If you're defending a system against invaders, it's more then possible for them to lock down stations and gates, so that you're left doing hit-and-runs from a POS. Running out of ammo basically means you can't fight anymore. Every race except Amarr has that problem. If you're invading enemy space, you wont be able to dock anywhere at all, so it's the same problem only amplified. Also the Pilgrim and Curse are possibly the two best recon ships out there. The fact that they only do one damage type also wont particularly matter in 0.0 fleet operations, because virtually everyone uses a full gank setup (all offensive modules, no defensive). I suppose it might be a disadvantage if you're planning on challenging people to duels for the rest of your life. ;) "There are no atheists in shuttles" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against shuttles.
Hin Vemere Trader's Academy Daikoku Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.11 23:39:00 - [7] I see Amarr ships used in PVP all the time. I wasn't even aware there was a bias against them.
Major Stormer Caldari Red Storm Vendetta	Posted - 2006.12.12 00:44:00 - [8] No they dont suck. the 5-6 people who constantly forum *** about them will have you believe otherwise. As would the caladri forum ***ers, and the galante...and the minmater... Everyone wants to be uber. Red Storm Vendetta is now recruiting! Click me for more info
Asestorian Minmatar Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.12 13:54:00 - [9] Amarr don't suck, and I personally love flying them. However, in small gangs and solo, in the majority of cases Minmatar and Gallente ships walk all over them. Armageddon with high skills and damage mods has some mean damage though. The other problem is of course capacitor, as lasers use a great deal of it, meaning you can't really run lasers and a tank for very long. Amarr are also the weakest race against Nos, again because of the high capacitor needs. The EM damage problem does also exist. Omni tanks on armour are quite common, and with armour having a naturally high resistance to EM damage, this causes problems for Amarr. However, again this mostly affects solo PvP, as in gangs you can still apply some decent enough extra damage. And I personally fly only in gangs so it doesn't matter too much to me. Another thing to note is that Lasers have quite high fitting requirements, the difference in damage between the highest tier of weapons and the next one down, is normally higher than the difference between the highest tier and the lowest tier in other weapon types. Not all ships have drone bays, or large ones anyway, so extra damage is also limited in a lot of cases. In fact, many people fly Amarr ships such as the Punisher, Maller and Apocalypse (Also Abaddon now I guess) with Autocannons (Minmatar weapons) to completely negate the cap usage of the weapons, and apply it all to the tank. This doesn't do much damage, but combined with some Nos, and an insane tank, can work quite well. Amarr advantages are of course that they don't run out of ammo (though the Tech II Laser crystals will be destroyed after a certain amount of shots (around 1000 per gun, I think), so Tech II crystals don't have this advantage, not only that, but it costs much much more for an Amarrian ship to use Tech II ammo compared to the other races as you still need one crystal per gun.) They also only take 1 second to change a crystal compared to 10 seconds to change ammo type for other races. However the falloff on Lasers is almost non-existent, so they have to change crystals more often, to keep doing a good amount of damage at the range they are in. They can put out extreme raw DPS (this means damage against 0% resistance basically) and/or can have a really good tank. They also have the cheapest weapons around, as everyone is flying the other races. It costs less to fit an Apocalypse with 8 Tachyon IIs than it does to fit a Tempest with 6 1400mm IIs I think. They are shiny, and I personally like the look and backstory of the Amarr as well, but that is based on personal preference to backstory. At the end of the day, the Amarr are the current underdogs. They do require high SP, but that SP is put into only a few categories. With some good piloting skills too (I don't have any of that ) that SP can be put to great use. However other races are far more effective. Gallente being the current favourite and easiest to train in PvP. Caldari aren't good solo due to med slots being used for tank and tackling gear, Minmatar are like Amarr, they need high SP, but can use it better in PvP atm. And the whole Amarr sucking for PvE, isn't really true, they are quite good at it IMO. Raven is better though. --- ---
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.12 14:07:00 - [10] Amarr certainly don't suck. If you look at the recent alliance tournament, for example, a great number of successful strategies involved Amarr ships (Abaddon, Absolution and Curse being very common and effective). Amarr have been powerful for a long time, and the late changes that have undermined their strength (armor compensation skills making energized adaptive nano membranes more viable and capacitor dominance vs. weapon cap use) have made Amarr representatives vocal. P.S. Amarr are not cool. They are narrow-minded arrogant religious fanatics with a skewed (or inexistent) concept of equality and human rights. ---
Draco letalis	Posted - 2006.12.12 14:44:00 - [11] what i really like is the gunship concept, so i just wanted to know if the large and slow gunship that just blasts its way thrug anny one smashing missiles or better yet strong beams of laser into enemy ships, is the ammar than for me?
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.12 15:15:00 - [12] If you like big ships firing big beams of holy purifying energy, then Amarr is for you. The biggest problem for Amarrian ships is their lack of flexibility. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
Draco letalis	Posted - 2006.12.12 15:27:00 - [13] okay, but do they make people bang thair heads into the keybord when they ge tjumped by one? or when a ammar ship shows up at a gang? but what i am most interested in, ar ethey good ships to learn the feel of this game? And the firepower? do they got some good firepower?
Amelia Korima	Posted - 2006.12.12 15:48:00 - [14] Edited by: Amelia Korima on 12/12/2006 15:49:38 Amarr Ships are VERY good. They can Armor tank for a very long time and their weapons have some of the highest Base DPS in the game. They are very fun to fly, fairly easy to learn, and best of all have very limited ammo limitations. With 20m^3 of space you can easily carry several crystal types to adapt for different ranges, reload almost instantly, and never have to worry about going back to base to reload or trying to guess how much ammo you need and how much room you need to leave for salvage. That being said.. They are SLOW and they can not change damage types. You will be dealing EM or Thrm from your Turrets. This is not realy as bad since you will do higher sustaind DPS then any ship out there and your tracking speed helps insure that your shots hit. If you come accross a target that is very resistant to EM/Thrm things get harder, but thats what your friends are for. :) Note: I have flown Amarr ships for some time, and while annoying the limited damage type isnt a huge problem. People have to pick and choose what they tank against, and often enough its Thermal and Kinetic or Explosive. :) IMHO if they have any weakspot, its their lack of Mid's. You can not slap on a ton of jammers, scramblers, or other support moduels. Though having a friend with you that does makes you a very nasty pair.
Draco letalis	Posted - 2006.12.12 17:57:00 - [15] Thanks for the replys, from what i have heard in this thread, they are not as bad as i have come to belive, i just have one more question, the colour/sound/impact/graficks of the lasers, as they mean a lot to the feel of the gameplay, could you describe it or send a screenshoot?
Caleb Paine ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.12 18:33:00 - [16] Laser are THE best weapon system when it comes to (sound) effects and theatrics. -------------------------------- ISS Navy Task Force; Protecting your interest.
Ducius	Posted - 2006.12.12 19:27:00 - [17] okay, the ones i have right now are pretty poor, they are dubble lasers or sumthing, 2fast shoots with a ugly yellow thin line, and a not that cool sound? does it get better?
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.12 20:26:00 - [18] Edited by: Perry on 12/12/2006 20:28:18 Edited by: Perry on 12/12/2006 20:27:40 Lasers are the best weapon if you want graphic and sound. Look here: Armageddon with Beams
Ducius	Posted - 2006.12.12 20:49:00 - [19] That is a freaking sweet pick, how do i make my beams look like that
Draco letalis	Posted - 2006.12.12 20:51:00 - [20] That is a freaking sweet pick, how do i make my beams look like that
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.12 20:54:00 - [21] I Have more ^^ Clicky
Ducius	Posted - 2006.12.12 20:59:00 - [22] byt how do i make my beams look that way?
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.12 21:17:00 - [23] Every Laser has its own Effect and Sound. You have to change Crystals to achieve different Colors and Ranges. Frigate Class: Gatling Pulse: tiny rapid Laser Dual Light Beam/Pulse: tiny weak pew pews with ***ty sound Medium Beam/Pulse: small ray Cruiser Class: Quad Ligh Beam: quad pew pew with grafic glitch, looks retarded Focused/Heavy Pulse: Pew Pew Pew short pulsed shots hot* Focused/Heavy Beam: Steady Ray, mediocre effect if you ask me ->Bug: Focused Pulse FX mixed up with Focused Beam's one (since beta lol) Battleship Class: Dual Heavy Pulse / Beam: Two rays fired, looks okayish, but the pulse's fx is out of place, should be pewpewpew Mega Pulse: Energy Pulse Ray charges one second and then goes PEW, very cool effect and sound Mega Beam: Big Ray, very good effect Tachyion Beam: More Big Ray with BaWUUUsh ^^ Capital Class: Dual Giga Pulse: A massive Pew Pew with very weak sound effect Dual Giga Beam: OMG Huuuge Ray of Destruction with mediocre sound effect. Does this answere all your questions?
Billy Sastard Amarr Zephyr Enterprises Inc. Astral Wolves	Posted - 2006.12.12 22:36:00 - [24] I love amarr, I am a 99.4% amarr pilot (projectile guns, and I just HAD to try out a rifter, go figure). The only thing you will need to get used to is that every time you talk to someone, or someone sees you in a belt ratting, you are going to hear "You should get a raven" . While, admittedly, the raven is the superior ratting/mission ship, with the proper skill distribution and focus amarr can rat with the best of them, just not quite as early in our career. On the pvp side however, amarr ships are pretty good, and you will see alot of people in them out on the battlefield. -=^=-
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.12.12 22:44:00 - [25] OMG Tachyons ! KA-PEW!!! That's all I have to say on that .
Qutsemnie Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.13 02:53:00 - [26] Its not so much the raven as cruise missles imo. I get better PvE results with my typhoon than my amarr ships simply cause the pve pwn of the cruise missle system is undeniable.
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2006.12.13 03:23:00 - [27] Yeah, laser color depends on the color of the crystal (and different colors will give you different ranges). How the laser looks and sounds depends on which laser it is, with Cruiser weapons and Battleship weapons generally looking very nice, while Frigate weapons not that great.
Nariana Verex Amarr Terra Nova Technologies	Posted - 2006.12.13 06:03:00 - [28] Edited by: Nariana Verex on 13/12/2006 06:08:58 Edited by: Nariana Verex on 13/12/2006 06:08:18 Hey Perry... Screw making my lasers look like that, that much I know already. How does one get their GUI to look like that? o.O Though it looks awkward, do you need to use those buttons to toggle through the hardpoint shortcuts, Perry? -------------------------------------------- You will also find that training other race skills will open up a new style of gameplay. You will have fun. Try that. -CCP ---------------------------

Saucerhead Forum Moderator	Posted - 2006.12.13 09:45:00 - [29] You can't make GUI look like this. This must be an old screenshot, pre-Exodus (so something like 2 years old). -- Read the Rules!

Ydyp Ieva Caldari Romarrian Empire	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:24:00 - [30] Edited by: Ydyp Ieva on 13/12/2006 15:25:47 Originally by: Saucerhead You can't make GUI look like this. This must be an old screenshot, pre-Exodus (so something like 2 years old). well it surely looks like my GUI when I started out 2 years ago :D And I only have flown the Arbitrator so far as Amarr ship. But still have seen some gankageddons around. One almost got me, and they still scare the hell out of me.

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