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EVE has bad PvE?

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Jashan T'Okara	Posted - 2006.12.12 22:58:00 - [31] Originally by: Xavier Raines blah blah blah.... There are other ways to pve though. Ratting, mining, trading are just a few of them..... blah blah blah... Ratting, mining, and trading are not strictly PvE... Ratting: Competing with other players for the good rat spawns. Mining: Competing with other players for the good rocks. Trading: Competing with other players for the best return on your product. Missions, are pure PvE. Another .02 ISK Onoez!! I posterd with an ALT!??!!???
Redart Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2006.12.12 23:15:00 - [32] Edited by: Redart on 12/12/2006 23:18:28 Originally by: Nate D Originally by: Redart The PVE is horrible. It's supposed to be. Promotes more PVP. :) I don't think you're 100% on that one... I love the PVP in EVE... yet sometimes I do actually get the urge to run missions. -NÖ Me too.... even though it's very very rare. I'd rather mine than mission tbh. But even still, I'm a very active member on MMORPG.com and one of the loudest if not THE loudest on their forums(not saying my name, but start looking at sigs). I've pretty much played every MMO out. The PVE in EVE is just on a much lower scale than other games, because for one...... that's mostly all the other games have. I still think EVE is way ahead of the other MMOs on a scale 1-10 though. Originally by: Sswiftstrike Can anybody mention a game with Good AI? Nope. That's why I like EVE and why I can't play PVE games. Mobs bore the living hell out of me. But still, ppl need to get off their high horse and realize that EVE's PVE systems is one of the worst out. Big deal. The rest of the game beats the other games down, in every other category, like a red-headed step-child. Matt @ GorgeousGamers.com
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2006.12.12 23:26:00 - [33] Edited by: Xavier Raines on 12/12/2006 23:29:31 Originally by: Jashan T'Okara Originally by: Xavier Raines blah blah blah.... There are other ways to pve though. Ratting, mining, trading are just a few of them..... blah blah blah... Ratting, mining, and trading are not strictly PvE... Ratting: Competing with other players for the good rat spawns. Mining: Competing with other players for the good rocks. Trading: Competing with other players for the best return on your product. Missions, are pure PvE and I am a pure moron. Another .02 ISK I guess that loot from missions in which you sell and/or refine is "pure Pve" too. I mean it isn't like you are selling the minerals or loot to another player right? Use your brain before you post please.
Jashan T'Okara	Posted - 2006.12.12 23:28:00 - [34] Selling the loot is trading, not specifically tied to running the missions. Onoez!! I posterd with an ALT!??!!???
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2006.12.12 23:34:00 - [35] Edited by: Xavier Raines on 12/12/2006 23:36:13 Originally by: Jashan T'Okara Selling the loot is trading, not specifically tied to running the missions. And trading is a pvp action because it is trading with another player. If it isn't tied with running missions, did it materialize out of thin air? I would say it is specifically tied in with missions as well as ratting. Yes it is so importaint that im posting with an alt. I bet you are one of those "can I have stuff" drones. It must be great to be well known and respected on a forum. Congratulations. Use of "Onoez!!" = Hello, I am 14 years old.
Cipher7	Posted - 2006.12.13 00:33:00 - [36] Originally by: Nate D I have just zipped through the forums on MMORPG.com talking about the final nominations for the best <whatever> votes. Many people claimed that EVE had horrible PvE... and by many I found almost every post saying something rather slanderous about EVE's PvE. On a personal note I kind of like the PvE in EVE although I find it terribly hard to get into cosmos missions... I do believe that the regular mission system could use some sort of love but I have no idea what I want added to it... What do you guys think? How's EVE's PvE? Would you change anything? If so what would you change? -NÖ It's not so much that the PVE isn't fun, it's that people who PVE get bothered by people who want easy PVP targets. Most people like to organize their time, like they'll set aside time to go rat or do missions, only to have some jerk bother you when you just want to eak out a little cash. A good pve setup is not a good pvp setup, if you're setup for pve, you have to basically safespot when someone warps in, so you have people wasting your time trying to get you to fight in a pve setup. For that reason alone, no Eve is not a good PVE game. Myself I like to do a little bit of everything. PVP is fun, just not every single day. Sometimes you have a crap day at work, you want to have a beer and pound some roids.
Nate D Naughty Ambitious Temptatious Endeavours	Posted - 2006.12.13 10:29:00 - [37] I think it'd be cool if there were like an "in mission" officer spawn... VERY RARE mind you... but the officer could possibly drop some item that would work well in PVP. Maybe this could better link PVP with PVE... idk... I'm pretty tired... maybe someone can better perfect my ideas and the ideas of others in this thread while I'm passed out... NN... -NÖ --- Voice Comms are Coming ...SoonÖ [Click]
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.13 10:42:00 - [38] Eve has far too much PvE for my liking. Especially since there are advantages to running missions other than just earning ISK. That's just wrong. Even I've ended up running missions and have found they are the only thing lonlier than the empty parts of 0.0. Nerf PvE in Eve tbh. ---------- IBTL \o/ EVE is upside down! WTZ+Slower Warp=Win
Siigari Kitawa Gallente HelpCorp United Eden's Fire	Posted - 2006.12.13 10:49:00 - [39] Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 13/12/2006 10:50:08 Originally by: Sswiftstrike Can anybody mention a game with Good AI? From oldest to newest: Descent 2: In Descent, the robots would hide around corners and sneak up on you when you weren't looking. Especially the thiefbot. He was more of a trigger (look away and he'll come get you, then turn around and full salvos away!) but still, robots like Diamond Claws and Omega Kamikazes would really **** you off with their drive to get in your face and ruin your day. Descent: Freespace.: In Freespace the enemies would really screw you up. They'd fly in circles to avoid your fire and make crazy realtime combat maneuvers to get around spray and pray. Total Annihilation with AIhack: This simple hack brought out a level of AI that caused the TA AI to cheat... (to an extent) but then you got a REAL FIGHT that made you think, manage your resources, and really hunker down and decide if you need another Big Bertha..
Nardon Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.13 11:16:00 - [40] Originally by: Cedori Having ground to level 70 and several hundred AA's on two seperate Everquest Accounts. I can say that the PVE in EVE is basically identical to the PVE in everquest. How could you say that with a straight face? Simplified enough of course it's the same. It's just you killing off the enemy. But by that definition we could lump in PvP too. EVE's PvE is lacking in one part - aggro management. Because there is none. The designated tank goes in and grabs aggro. Afterwards he can do whatever he wants he will stay nr. 1 enemy of the state. Of course this is required as the helpers don't have the ability to repair the damage on the dps ships if the focus would switch. The only damage mitigation option I've seen is kiting. Compared to that EQ has a very sophisticated system. Aggro is calculated dynamically upon the actions taken by the players. There are ways to selectivly grab aggro(pulling) minimize incoming damage on other chars(shielding!), reducing damage dealt by the npcs and so on. Unless EVE starts to implement such mechanics there is no need for group play in PvE. You either can tank the rats or not. Remote reppers are one step in the right direction but I would not want anybody to just sit there and keep the repper running while I have all the fun tanking and killing stuff.
Ankanos Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.12.13 11:23:00 - [41] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 13/12/2006 10:50:08 Total Annihilation with AIhack: This simple hack brought out a level of AI that caused the TA AI to cheat... (to an extent) but then you got a REAL FIGHT that made you think, manage your resources, and really hunker down and decide if you need another Big Bertha.. hold the boat..... where can i get this AI hack? i love TA. -clue me in please.. :) -ank ---
The Snowman Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.12.13 11:26:00 - [42] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Total Annihilation with AIhack: This simple hack brought out a level of AI that caused the TA AI to cheat... (to an extent) but then you got a REAL FIGHT that made you think, manage your resources, and really hunker down and decide if you need another Big Bertha.. Chris Taylor (who made TA) is about to release Supreme Commander... any TA fans should REALLY check it out :) <------------> Poker RPG 60 jumps 'Flop' by..
Nero Scuro Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2006.12.13 11:31:00 - [43] Edited by: Nero Scuro on 13/12/2006 11:32:29 Originally by: some noob I guess that loot from missions in which you sell and/or refine is "pure Pve" too. I mean it isn't like you are selling the minerals or loot to another player right? Use your brain before you post please. Omg you're right! So if I buy a ship and pirate with it using money I got from missioning that makes missioning pirating right? What you use the procedes of a mission for doesn't make missions anything other than PvEing. The market is not part of the agent system. Use your brain before you post please. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2006.12.13 11:37:00 - [44] Originally by: Crumplecorn Eve has far too much PvE for my liking. Especially since there are advantages to running missions other than just earning ISK. That's just wrong. Even I've ended up running missions and have found they are the only thing lonlier than the empty parts of 0.0. Nerf PvE in Eve tbh. I'll give you a C for effort at flame-baiting.
Apolitos	Posted - 2006.12.13 11:39:00 - [45] Sure PVE sucks, but then again in l3's when you warp in at some rooms warp scramble, they not that stupid after all. :P
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.13 11:45:00 - [46] Edited by: Plutoinum on 13/12/2006 11:47:04 WoW PvE encounters are much more challenging at least until you have developed strategy and teamplay to beat them and are equipped for it. The bosses use all kind of nasty tricks and sometimes the fight has different phases, where the mob behaves differently. The big instances are not supposed to be finished fast, so they are persistent for some days. One run takes many hours, but you can stop and continue on the next day. Back in spring 2005, when there was a race towards the first kill of the highest boss (Ragnaros) on the european servers, I think we spend like 2 months in Molten Core or so, learning the instance, from trying to kill the first boss, until finally managing to kill Ragnaros. The guild we were competing with and who managed to kill him 1st on our server, was only 5 days faster. The time to learn to manage those encounters and get all the equipment to survive in the meantime just took so long. It was always a race between our guilds, who has killed a certain boss first. First attempts were usually plain dying. Whole team annihilated. Think nowadays my guild does the whole instance in one evening. I don't play anymore. After killing Ragnaros a few times my goal was achieved. My guild went on to newer instances that came out, I had enough as it felt like work. My life was dominated by WoW high-level instance runs. In EVE, PvE encounters, where you need a team of 40 coordinated and well equipped people, just don't exist. I did my first 10/10 complex run successfully. You just needed a good tank and some damage dealers with a lot of support drones. How to do the plex can be explained in a few sentences. There is no coordination/teamplay to train except putting the drones on the tank. But imho EVE is a PvP game anyway, it would probably just distract from PvP, if such PvE existed. People would spend too much time with it and with farming once they have learned how to beat the ai easily. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Jadis Jade	Posted - 2006.12.13 11:48:00 - [47] Edited by: Jadis Jade on 13/12/2006 11:48:05 I think the 'missions' part of the game needs a major upgrade. I have had two friends try Eve and quit within the first month. Both of them liked the idea of the game but felt the social element was weak. One of them commented how she never had a reason to group with anyone during her month of play. I know the game becomes more 'social' as one moves forward, joins a corporation, gets into much more difficult missions, etc. but people don't see any of that until they have been in Eve for months. I think the increase in initial SPs is a tremendous help. It removes 1-2 months of tedium. For missions, my greatest desire would be to see new agents added who are 'group mission' agents. From the beginning, all the missions they give out would be for a group. The ship classes for these group missions could be limited like in complexes. In this way, new characters could group with veterans and it would still be challenging. 'Group Mission' Agents would also bring players together and would vastly increase the social element of Eve for many players.
Nate D Naughty Ambitious Temptatious Endeavours	Posted - 2006.12.13 11:50:00 - [48] I believe that you can develop EVE's PvE system without taking away from it's PvP community. That's another point though... I really wish missions didn't respawn after DT so I don't have to worry about starting missions too close to DT... -NÖ --- Voice Comms are Coming ...SoonÖ [Click]
PCaBoo Newbies On Xstacy	Posted - 2006.12.13 11:51:00 - [49] It's a shame the NPC's are not a little smarter. I mean on the low-end of the scale, they're fine. We don't want new guys getting creamed, but the bigger guys should have some sort of intelligence boost. They should also be fitted with different modules and weapons, like a real fleet would. I think the game is pretty nice the way it is, but sometimes when i'm tired of PvP/Ganking and want to do run the occasional mission or go ratting. I don't because it's so boring so I just check my skill and either log or search out someone to grief.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.13 11:54:00 - [50] Originally by: Anatolius What's the difference between EVE and any other MMOG out there? Very little. Boring repetative "quests" handed out. (We've got Agents!) Kill the same creatures over and over and over and over again. (We've got Sansha's!) Camping for weeks at a time to get some sort of rare item. (We've got Officers!) the difference is - EVE shows you that grinding NPCs REALLY is boring. ___________________ EVE: Revelations - The Game for Carebears and Gankbears no more skill needed for PvP - only skillpoints for Large Bubble and CovOps n00b-alts
Ignis Penitus Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.13 11:58:00 - [51] Originally by: Nir Yes but it ain't mandatory, thats the difference. You can quit anytime you want without having to worry about requiring 5593829 XP for your next level up. -NÖ (Trademark my hairy arse. Sue me ) But mission running is required to gain standing; which is important in research and production. Or am I missing the point, since all the significant T2 BPOs have been given out? I think it speaks volumes that the eve-online main page primarily promotes PVP tournaments, EVE TV about PVP tournaments and their trading card game. "Technology solves nearly half the problems it creates." - Ignis
Jadis Jade	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:44:00 - [52] Edited by: Jadis Jade on 13/12/2006 13:46:56 While I am ranting on missions... The agent system should be scrapped in place of this... 1. Every corporation has only 1 agent and the corporation divisions goes away. NPC corporations and their agents are accessable through a 'snazzy' new simple interface. 2. The agent gives you missions that have levels based upon your current standing with the corporation. 3. You do not dock with a station to speak with an agent, you can speak with an agent from anywhere. 4. When you speak with an agent for a mission, the agent first asks you in what region you would like a mission (defaults to the current region the player is in). Then, rather than showing only 1 mission, there is a listing of the different mission types as well as multiple missions available for each. This is the way it would be if I were Empress.
Becham	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:50:00 - [53] Unfortunately, the dreadfully boring things in EVE are what infuse isks/minerals into the game.
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:04:00 - [54] Originally by: Thoban Theis See what the good PvP'ers do in fleet battles. Have the NPCs mirror those tactics. I wholeheartedly agree. NPCs should definetely: - warp out if they are outgunned - scramble you if you are outgunned - smacktalk in local - Nos you and put drones on you - MWD away at 10km/s - snipe you from 200Km, warp off if you get any closer :-)
Thoban Theis	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:05:00 - [55] Hehe, well let's call it "selective mirroring" then :D
dumsnut Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:09:00 - [56] Quote: For the new player, there are essentially only two things to do. 1. Missions and 2. Mining yawn. I know at this point many will say, "THERE ARE PLENTY OF OTHER THINGS FOR NEW PLAYERS TO DO...", and then proceed to give examples. This is not helpful however because the reality is that the majority of new players only understand missions and mining. Word on that! I've tried this game several times before (14-days trials), but never signed up for a subscription cause I've found the game rather boring. I think Eve loose a lot of players in their first month of game time. The new players have a hard time joining corps, the learning curve is rather steep, they don't have SP/knowledge for doing anything but mining and mission runs. I think mining is kinda boring and I like blowing things up, what can I do except from doing kill missions? There is no area for "rookie-PVP" as far as I know... The devs need to make the game more interesting and fun for rookies is my 2c..
Romeda Minmatar Trojan industries	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:11:00 - [57] There is a vast amount of PvE in EVE, but PvP is what most players do, the problem with PvE is not the lack of content there is loads to play with, but things like mining, missions, trading and ratting, these are becoming grinding work that can make them boring and these need some positive changes. The invention, salvaging and exploration areas are a better step in the right direction, something that requires effort, work and thinking to reap rewards.
Agnar Koladrov Gallente Hurricane Corporation	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:15:00 - [58] Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: Thoban Theis See what the good PvP'ers do in fleet battles. Have the NPCs mirror those tactics. I wholeheartedly agree. NPCs should definetely: - warp out if they are outgunned - scramble you if you are outgunned - smacktalk in local - Nos you and put drones on you - MWD away at 10km/s - snipe you from 200Km, warp off if you get any closer :-) Would make mission runners get more used to PvP like tactics and PvP like setups. If missions now would also include PvP like objectives, like scramble target X, to get information Y for final coordinates to finnish the mission. ________________________________________________ -- What a Revelation! -- Where was the creativty for speed/mass/etc when the tier2 Battlecruisers were designed? Why the same for each race BC?
Pan Crastus	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:17:00 - [59] Well there is a lot of potential for improvement here, but sadly, CCP has other things in mind (I wish I knew what it is). For example, belt rats could call other rats in the system for support occasionally - those would warp off from other belts on top of you and help the NPCs you are shooting. Small change, great effect. There could be cloaked rats, sneaking up to you like pirates in Pilgrim etc. In addition to the boring hauler spawns, there could be the occasional NPC mining gang (with security, ore cans etc.). Nice training for ore thieves. ;-) How about a chance to spawn the odd NPC gang hostile to the local NPCs? E.g. a Republic Fleet gang spawning in a belt, warping from belt to belt, to hunt Angels (both sides losing ships, but hey, stuff to salvage). The recently added hidden plexes are an improvement (they have more complex game mechanics than belt rats and older plexes anyway), but they seem to be somewhat unpolished and unfinished. And, of course, they aren't as flexible as the examples above, where many different things could happen if you just give the NPCs some sort of AI, reactions to hostile factions and vary the spawns a bit.
Atreides Horza	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:17:00 - [60] I have to agree with the frustrations vented about repetitious gameplay when it comes to missions. What little time I spent on missions almost had me quit the game entirely... I was thinking of ways to improve this, and one way might be to allow for the current 'play-by-agent' system to be more interactable. What i'm thinking is leave the first sets of standard missions for newcomers to run through and get a chance to familiarize oneself with the game. Then increase the assortment of spawns and events at asteroid fields, moons, etc to include faction attacks like True Sansha raiding parties, Giisti salvaging ops, etc etc... Things that would require every respectable corp operating in an area to employ scouts to determine the severity of obstacles, mission runners to clean out the enemy presence and make it possible for miners to work in the area, etc etc. Even make an interface system similar to escrow/contacts with customizable missions that would allow corp representatives to hire pilots for specific purposes... Another way to make things interesting would be to increase the likeliness of bad guys showing up in roid fields in systems with complexes, so that these will have to be cleaned on a regular basis. Ideas, ideas, I know... Just brain breezing here. :) Imagine if the agents were players? Representatives

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