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Nate D
Naughty Ambitious Temptatious Endeavours
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Posted - 2006.12.12 20:40:00 -
[1]
I have just zipped through the forums on MMORPG.com talking about the final nominations for the best <whatever> votes. Many people claimed that EVE had horrible PvE... and by many I found almost every post saying something rather slanderous about EVE's PvE.
On a personal note I kind of like the PvE in EVE although I find it terribly hard to get into cosmos missions... I do believe that the regular mission system could use some sort of love but I have no idea what I want added to it...
What do you guys think? How's EVE's PvE? Would you change anything? If so what would you change?
-NÖ
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Constantine Arcanum
Gallente
IMPERIAL SENATE
Pure.
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Posted - 2006.12.12 20:42:00 -
[2]
it's too easy tbh and the rat AI sucks. but it won't change and I don't have that much of a problem with it.
I helped - Cortes
What a shiny and lovely place here - Eshtir
Well lets make it a party atleast :D -Xorus
RAWWWR!11!!1!2 SIG HIJACK!!11!1
I found it first, get orrrfff moiiii laaannnd - Cortes |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.12.12 20:46:00 -
[3]
Yeah, it has bad pve, but its a virtual world, not a grinding game. 
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Nate D
Naughty Ambitious Temptatious Endeavours
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Posted - 2006.12.12 20:47:00 -
[4]
Ah I know what I'd love to have! A better way to involve more people into the mission so I can run it with friends and have them get some of the standing/reward... stuff like that although it might not be scam proof... (alts)...
But you're right the AI's suck... but I think that's a good thing because that allows one person to tank the mission damage and the other people (possibly nubs) fly around and shoot things... I take nubs on my missions sometimes just to let them have fun and collect bounties they enjoy it.
-NÖ
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Nero Scuro
Caldari
Murder of Crows
E N I G M A
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Posted - 2006.12.12 20:49:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Nate D
But you're right the AI's suck... but I think that's a good thing because that allows one person to tank the mission damage and the other people (possibly nubs) fly around and shoot things... I take nubs on my missions sometimes just to let them have fun and collect bounties they enjoy it.
I really don't think you get the concept of a 'game'.
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The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
Anatolius
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.12 20:51:00 -
[6]
What's the difference between EVE and any other MMOG out there?
Very little. Boring repetative "quests" handed out. (We've got Agents!) Kill the same creatures over and over and over and over again. (We've got Sansha's!) Camping for weeks at a time to get some sort of rare item. (We've got Officers!)
The only thing missing from EVE PvE are massive raids filled with screaming, drooling monkey children who can't listen to the simplest of orders and thus get a lot of people killed by doing something stupid. That and some god-awful noise that happens whenever a little ball of cheese drops into your lap after killing the same bloody creatures for ten hours a sitting.
I'll take EVE's crappy PvE in exchange for the fact that there's plenty of other things to do in EVE. 
"If God be for us, whom can be against us?" |
Redart
Pirates of Destruction Union
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Posted - 2006.12.12 20:53:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Nate D
I have just zipped through the forums on MMORPG.com talking about the final nominations for the best <whatever> votes. Many people claimed that EVE had horrible PvE... and by many I found almost every post saying something rather slanderous about EVE's PvE.
On a personal note I kind of like the PvE in EVE although I find it terribly hard to get into cosmos missions... I do believe that the regular mission system could use some sort of love but I have no idea what I want added to it...
What do you guys think? How's EVE's PvE? Would you change anything? If so what would you change?
-NÖ
I love EVE, but don't kid yourself.
The PVE is horrible. It's supposed to be. Promotes more PVP. :)
Matt @ GorgeousGamers.com
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Nir
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.12.12 20:53:00 -
[8]
In my opinion EVE's PVE just isn't very fun, its mostly linear and lacks any sort of depth to keep you interested in it.
Missions for example are exactly the same, it doesn't take long before you've played through every mission for your faction (including storylines) and from that point on you're just doing repeats.. yawn.
Put it this way, if EVE was a level grinder a la Everquest I would most likely not be playing it.
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Nate D
Naughty Ambitious Temptatious Endeavours
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Posted - 2006.12.12 20:53:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Nate D on 12/12/2006 20:54:29
Originally by: Nero Scuro
I really don't think you get the concept of a 'game'.
Well my concept of a game is something where you can play it and have fun... I run missions and have fun and I bring nubbies along and they have fun too... I'd like to know what exactly you are criticizing of what I've said.
Now a better way to integrate more players into missions would be a solution to part of the game that isn't currently as massive multiplayer as it should be... once a multi-user mission system is in place I think the development of level 5 missions would probably next in line so you'd need a lot of people to run missions.
-NÖ
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Nate D
Naughty Ambitious Temptatious Endeavours
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Posted - 2006.12.12 20:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Redart
The PVE is horrible. It's supposed to be. Promotes more PVP. :)
I don't think you're 100% on that one... I love the PVP in EVE... yet sometimes I do actually get the urge to run missions.
-NÖ
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Stakhanov
Gallente
Newbies On Xstacy
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Posted - 2006.12.12 20:58:00 -
[11]
Rats are indeed so very sloppy , worse than drones it seems. They should use some basic teamwork and fly away from you when they use ranged weaponry...
That's the reason I stopped the whole PvE thing long ago. Missions are tedious to do alone , and not challenging at all with friends.
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Nir
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.12.12 21:00:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Nate D
I love the PVP in EVE... yet sometimes I do actually get the urge to run missions.
-NÖ
Yes but it ain't mandatory, thats the difference. You can quit anytime you want without having to worry about requiring 5593829 XP for your next level up.
-NÖ (Trademark my hairy arse. Sue me  )
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Nate D
Naughty Ambitious Temptatious Endeavours
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Posted - 2006.12.12 21:00:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Stakhanov
Rats are indeed so very sloppy , worse than drones it seems. They should use some basic teamwork and fly away from you when they use ranged weaponry...
That's the reason I stopped the whole PvE thing long ago. Missions are tedious to do alone , and not challenging at all with friends.
I agree and making the missions do more DPS to make the person warp out is not a solution... I don't want to have to warp out in the middle of a mission... I want to have to find another way around my obstacle...
-NÖ
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Felzius
Gallente
Project 0.0
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Posted - 2006.12.12 21:14:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Stakhanov
That's the reason I stopped the whole PvE thing long ago. Missions are tedious to do alone , and not challenging at all with friends.
Well, nobody says you have to use your best ships to do the missions.
cruisers vs lvl 4 missions 4tw! Treat it like pvp and warp the h#ñl out when primary >)
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Radioactive Babe
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Posted - 2006.12.12 21:17:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Nate D
Originally by: Stakhanov
Rats are indeed so very sloppy , worse than drones it seems. They should use some basic teamwork and fly away from you when they use ranged weaponry...
That's the reason I stopped the whole PvE thing long ago. Missions are tedious to do alone , and not challenging at all with friends.
I agree and making the missions do more DPS to make the person warp out is not a solution... I don't want to have to warp out in the middle of a mission... I want to have to find another way around my obstacle...
-NÖ
Angel Nephilims keep you at 30km, they have a lot of warps outs of many a unprepared Raven
alas, poor risk vs reward, I knew you well
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2006.12.12 21:29:00 -
[16]
To be honest, we probably wouldn't tolerate the type of crowd that immersive PVE would draw. Just hordes of people claiming right-of-way to 0.0 complexes, complaining that everyone else should stfu and leave them the hell alone.
No thanks to that.
I have run missions many a time in the past to pay for my skills and losses, and no longer. I quit missions months before the new Kali content was released, and nothing I have heard since will tempt me back.
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Blind Man
Kemono.
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Posted - 2006.12.12 21:34:00 -
[17]
to anyone who said eve's pve sucks i would say lol show me a game that has 'fun' pve 
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Nate D
Naughty Ambitious Temptatious Endeavours
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Posted - 2006.12.12 21:37:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy
To be honest, we probably wouldn't tolerate the type of crowd that immersive PVE would draw. Just hordes of people claiming right-of-way to 0.0 complexes, complaining that everyone else should stfu and leave them the hell alone.
No thanks to that.
I have run missions many a time in the past to pay for my skills and losses, and no longer. I quit missions months before the new Kali content was released, and nothing I have heard since will tempt me back.
So static content may be holding EVE back from tons of people running the good stuff? I admit the 1 cosmos mission I ran I failed because I had 24 hours to collect quite a bit of an item and everytime I'd go to kill the rats with that item there was always several other people there which made it no fun... cussing and stuff to try and kill them first...
I don't want EVE to have non-static content but I do think that something should be done to increase the amount of static content.
-NÖ
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Synapse Archae
Amarr
Solarflare Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.12.12 21:41:00 -
[19]
Eve PVE isnt great because eve is NOT about PVE. Anyone complaining about eve's PVE is missing the point.
PVE in eve is done to interact with other players, mostly so you can all make money and go out and blow other players up. Eve is an MMO in which youre supposed to interact(gasp) with other people (OMG!!). And the PVE system promotes that.
In other games, PVE is done for its own sake, which is a total waste of time, and I want nothing to do with such games.
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 These elite slaves are exceptionally well suited for physical labor. |
Xavier Raines
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Posted - 2006.12.12 22:05:00 -
[20]
PvE in EvE isn't great but ive played worse. DAOC's PvE is much worse in my opinion because all you do is grind by killing the same generic mobs over and over. Sure there are quests but most of them aren't very interesting.
At least in EvE, you have several choices. You can do missions, mine, rat in belts ect. If you get bored with something, you can switch to something else.
Also, the knowledge that the "grinding" in EvE is only half the equation is a good thing. We don't grind to get levels like most games. We grind for Isk and I consider my "levels" as my skill points which I don't even have to work on because they come by itself in time.
Once you get into a good corp or become a good pirate, bounty hunter ect, most of the grind goes away and most of your time you are free to just have fun doing whatever you like because isk comes much easier and faster and you don't have to farm it 24/7 unless you are like me and lose tons of ships.
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Sorela
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.12 22:09:00 -
[21]
This is a no brainer. EvE PvE sucks for sure. It's an unpolished pile horse manure.
The redeeming thing of course is that in EvE you don't have to do the PvE. Even if you don't want to PvP there are plenty of other things to do than just sitting there grinding mobs.
If I changed anything about PvE though I'd say to get rid of the current mission system and implement something with 9 tiers instead of 4. Keep the difficulty per tier much more strictly defined. Then make advancing through the tiers much more simple where the only real limitation is the difficulty. The whole agent system is horrid too. You should be able to do missions wherever you want basically and the only thing the location would change is the reward system. The reward system should be completely revamped as well.
Then after all that's fixed I think wrecks have made one thing finally clear in the minds of everyone. EvE's loot system has been broken for a long long time. There is really zero reason for ships to not have nearly unlimited built in massive range tractor beams. If looting faster means the rewards are too good then they can simply lower the rewards. Looting is boring though and needs to be heavily simplified.
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Cedori
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Posted - 2006.12.12 22:18:00 -
[22]
Having ground to level 70 and several hundred AA's on two seperate Everquest Accounts. I can say that the PVE in EVE is basically identical to the PVE in everquest. At least the solo/groupable stuff. Problem is, in games in EQ, the PVE is raid content, and for the last probably 4 years I played EQ the only reason I played(and leveled/AA'd) was to raid.
And raiding was certainly different then anything I've experienced yet in EVE. Maybe when I get a bit more skilled and get into a 0.0 corp that does a bunch of PVP. But then again, you're not going against an NPC scripted event, you are going against other, living, breathing, people, which should add a whole new level to the experience.
At this point however, the PVE content is basically the same, but when your ratting/Mining in lowsec and escape/fight off/destroy/etc a Griefbear, that's a whole new world of fun.
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Logi3
sasha and co
Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2006.12.12 22:19:00 -
[23]
I dont think its horrible. Its pretty much the same as any other mmorpg out there, although i get annoyed because i think it could be SO much to it.
Right in the deep parts of space, far far from empire. There could be NPCs that have the ability to call in backup. Or have ships that jam close to what player ships can do.
Lets say we get a 10mil office spawn, now. He should have some heavy back up. Say some ships that really tracking disrupt, or jam times a minute. Or, even have logistic ships that are helping it rep shields/armour or boost its damage. And they will come back after being killed unless you kill the daddy npc wihtin say, 5 minutes?
Stuff like that could add so much more imo. Atm its basically ships lock you and fire, thats about it
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McBrite
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2006.12.12 22:22:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sorela
This is a no brainer. EvE PvE sucks for sure. It's an unpolished pile horse manure.
The redeeming thing of course is that in EvE you don't have to do the PvE. Even if you don't want to PvP there are plenty of other things to do than just sitting there grinding mobs.
If I changed anything about PvE though I'd say to get rid of the current mission system and implement something with 9 tiers instead of 4. Keep the difficulty per tier much more strictly defined. Then make advancing through the tiers much more simple where the only real limitation is the difficulty. The whole agent system is horrid too. You should be able to do missions wherever you want basically and the only thing the location would change is the reward system. The reward system should be completely revamped as well.
Then after all that's fixed I think wrecks have made one thing finally clear in the minds of everyone. EvE's loot system has been broken for a long long time. There is really zero reason for ships to not have nearly unlimited built in massive range tractor beams. If looting faster means the rewards are too good then they can simply lower the rewards. Looting is boring though and needs to be heavily simplified.
Wow, you obviously put more thought into it then me... I love all of those suggestions!!! Anything hindering gameplay (like agent location) should be revamped to make it more fluent and accessible... Also the fact you have to get standing with seperate corps should be changed... The standing can still be seperated, but the ability to run a certain lvl of missions should be interlinked so you don't have to grind your way up in every seperate corp from the bottom...
That would also greatly help the location-factor as there is bound to be at least a half-descent agent whereever you are at that moment...
I hope some Devs read this thread!
PS: Even if that would create a mild influx of more "wow-type" players, thats perfectly fine! The will spend their isk mindless and give the "descent player" more isk in the long haul... Also more targets for less experienced pirates... Market gets more movement...
It would help influence the only bad points eve has: Hard to get into and boring without a descent corp in the background...
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Leverton
AWE Corporation
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Posted - 2006.12.12 22:23:00 -
[25]
I've actually found doing complexes quite fun. It requires a lot of teamwork and coordination.
--
The universe is governed by the aggressive use of force.
Hows this for a little note! Oh, and YARRRRR!! - Petwraith
I prefer the term RAWR  - Xorus |
Xavier Raines
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Posted - 2006.12.12 22:38:00 -
[26]
I think you people have too much of a narrowminded view of this subject.
My defenition of PvE is: The grind to get to the endgame.
Well there isn't an endgame in EvE. Everything you do is like a profession in which you partake and the only reason to do them is to make isk. The nice thing is that you are your own boss and decide when to pve and when not to. Unlike other MMOs, you do not have to grind to enjoy most of the other content. A 2 million sp noob who happens to be a member of a 0.0 corp can participate in corp ops or pvp along side the 20 million vets.
Another thing is that there are no seperate "pve areas" and "pvp areas" in this game. It is one seemless world where one part of it (empire} happens to have some mechanisms put in which discourages or disallows certain aspects of pvp taking place. However, they still can take place with a little imagination and it is perfectly acceptable if you can pull it off. However, some people will never grasp this concept because they refuse to let go of that WoW, Everquest, DAOC mentality of MMO's they have where they believe that Empire is a PvE zone and when they die to another pilot, get shot at, Ganked, Griefed ect, they are being "exploited" and have been on the reciving end of a "great wrong" against them. "Time to go to the forums and whine about it."
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Caedicus
Minmatar
Einherjar Rising
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.12.12 22:39:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sorela
This is a no brainer. EvE PvE sucks for sure. It's an unpolished pile horse manure.
The redeeming thing of course is that in EvE you don't have to do the PvE. Even if you don't want to PvP there are plenty of other things to do than just sitting there grinding mobs.
If I changed anything about PvE though I'd say to get rid of the current mission system and implement something with 9 tiers instead of 4. Keep the difficulty per tier much more strictly defined. Then make advancing through the tiers much more simple where the only real limitation is the difficulty. The whole agent system is horrid too. You should be able to do missions wherever you want basically and the only thing the location would change is the reward system. The reward system should be completely revamped as well.
Then after all that's fixed I think wrecks have made one thing finally clear in the minds of everyone. EvE's loot system has been broken for a long long time. There is really zero reason for ships to not have nearly unlimited built in massive range tractor beams. If looting faster means the rewards are too good then they can simply lower the rewards. Looting is boring though and needs to be heavily simplified.
I can't agree with you more. Especially about the looting. On a similar note, I have no idea what CCP is thinking trying to make salvaging a profession. Great idea, make us grind something really boring in order to make money. I've played many MMO's in the past and I have to say looting in Eve is by far the most excruciating. I think all ships having built in tractor beams is a great idea, btw. The simple act of transfering an object from something you destroyed shouldn't take the same amount of time it took to destory it, unless you like boring games.
The missions system:
1. is disgustingly repetitive
2. doesn't encourage group play
3. takes forever to loot
4. Doesn't immerse players into the Eve universe
It's such a immersion killer when an agent gives you the EXACT same mission he gave you last time. It's like the agents have amnesia and forgot that you completed their task.
Alas, it's no big deal because I'm getting into PVP more. But when I need to make ISK it would be nice have something INTERESTING to do.
Evolution in Eve:
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Jashan T'Okara
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Posted - 2006.12.12 22:42:00 -
[28]
PvE in EVE is a means to get named modules into the hands of the people who cant use T2 stuff yet. I dont think CCP really cares to expend too much energy on the PvE aspects, as the game is touted as being based around PvP.
Just my .02 ISK
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Sswiftstrike
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Posted - 2006.12.12 22:43:00 -
[29]
Can anybody mention a game with Good AI?
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Xavier Raines
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Posted - 2006.12.12 22:53:00 -
[30]
I agree mission running is boring and it is ridiculous when the agent gives you same mission you just did. It does kill the immersiveness and that is why I don't do them.
There are other ways to pve though. Ratting, mining, trading are just a few of them. However, I guess people are addicted to the Misson grind because of the LP rewards which can be obtained so they continue to sludge through them.
However, restricting yourself to running missions and then coming here and labeling pve in EvE as "awful" is pretty ignorant in my opinion because there are numerous different ways to pve in this game.
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Jashan T'Okara
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Posted - 2006.12.12 22:58:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Xavier Raines
blah blah blah....
There are other ways to pve though. Ratting, mining, trading are just a few of them..... blah blah blah...
Ratting, mining, and trading are not strictly PvE... Ratting: Competing with other players for the good rat spawns. Mining: Competing with other players for the good rocks. Trading: Competing with other players for the best return on your product.
Missions, are pure PvE.
Another .02 ISK
Onoez!! I posterd with an ALT!??!!??? |
Redart
Pirates of Destruction Union
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Posted - 2006.12.12 23:15:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Redart on 12/12/2006 23:18:28
Originally by: Nate D
Originally by: Redart
The PVE is horrible. It's supposed to be. Promotes more PVP. :)
I don't think you're 100% on that one... I love the PVP in EVE... yet sometimes I do actually get the urge to run missions.
-NÖ
Me too.... even though it's very very rare. I'd rather mine than mission tbh.
But even still, I'm a very active member on MMORPG.com and one of the loudest if not THE loudest on their forums(not saying my name, but start looking at sigs). I've pretty much played every MMO out. The PVE in EVE is just on a much lower scale than other games, because for one...... that's mostly all the other games have.
I still think EVE is way ahead of the other MMOs on a scale 1-10 though.
Originally by: Sswiftstrike
Can anybody mention a game with Good AI?
Nope. That's why I like EVE and why I can't play PVE games. Mobs bore the living hell out of me.
But still, ppl need to get off their high horse and realize that EVE's PVE systems is one of the worst out.
Big deal. The rest of the game beats the other games down, in every other category, like a red-headed step-child.
Matt @ GorgeousGamers.com
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Xavier Raines
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Posted - 2006.12.12 23:26:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Xavier Raines on 12/12/2006 23:29:31
Originally by: Jashan T'Okara
Originally by: Xavier Raines
blah blah blah....
There are other ways to pve though. Ratting, mining, trading are just a few of them..... blah blah blah...
Ratting, mining, and trading are not strictly PvE... Ratting: Competing with other players for the good rat spawns. Mining: Competing with other players for the good rocks. Trading: Competing with other players for the best return on your product.
Missions, are pure PvE and I am a pure moron.
Another .02 ISK
I guess that loot from missions in which you sell and/or refine is "pure Pve" too. I mean it isn't like you are selling the minerals or loot to another player right?
Use your brain before you post please.
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Jashan T'Okara
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Posted - 2006.12.12 23:28:00 -
[34]
Selling the loot is trading, not specifically tied to running the missions.
Onoez!! I posterd with an ALT!??!!??? |
Xavier Raines
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Posted - 2006.12.12 23:34:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Xavier Raines on 12/12/2006 23:36:13
Originally by: Jashan T'Okara
Selling the loot is trading, not specifically tied to running the missions.
And trading is a pvp action because it is trading with another player. If it isn't tied with running missions, did it materialize out of thin air? I would say it is specifically tied in with missions as well as ratting.
Yes it is so importaint that im posting with an alt. I bet you are one of those "can I have stuff" drones. It must be great to be well known and respected on a forum. Congratulations.
Use of "Onoez!!" = Hello, I am 14 years old.
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Cipher7
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Posted - 2006.12.13 00:33:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Nate D
I have just zipped through the forums on MMORPG.com talking about the final nominations for the best <whatever> votes. Many people claimed that EVE had horrible PvE... and by many I found almost every post saying something rather slanderous about EVE's PvE.
On a personal note I kind of like the PvE in EVE although I find it terribly hard to get into cosmos missions... I do believe that the regular mission system could use some sort of love but I have no idea what I want added to it...
What do you guys think? How's EVE's PvE? Would you change anything? If so what would you change?
-NÖ
It's not so much that the PVE isn't fun, it's that people who PVE get bothered by people who want easy PVP targets.
Most people like to organize their time, like they'll set aside time to go rat or do missions, only to have some jerk bother you when you just want to eak out a little cash.
A good pve setup is not a good pvp setup, if you're setup for pve, you have to basically safespot when someone warps in, so you have people wasting your time trying to get you to fight in a pve setup.
For that reason alone, no Eve is not a good PVE game.
Myself I like to do a little bit of everything.
PVP is fun, just not every single day.
Sometimes you have a crap day at work, you want to have a beer and pound some roids.
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Nate D
Naughty Ambitious Temptatious Endeavours
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Posted - 2006.12.13 10:29:00 -
[37]
I think it'd be cool if there were like an "in mission" officer spawn... VERY RARE mind you... but the officer could possibly drop some item that would work well in PVP. Maybe this could better link PVP with PVE... idk... I'm pretty tired... maybe someone can better perfect my ideas and the ideas of others in this thread while I'm passed out...
NN...
-NÖ
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Aerial Boundaries Inc.
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.13 10:42:00 -
[38]
Eve has far too much PvE for my liking. Especially since there are advantages to running missions other than just earning ISK. That's just wrong. Even I've ended up running missions and have found they are the only thing lonlier than the empty parts of 0.0.
Nerf PvE in Eve tbh.
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IBTL \o/
EVE is upside down!
WTZ+Slower Warp=Win |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
HelpCorp United
Eden's Fire
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Posted - 2006.12.13 10:49:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 13/12/2006 10:50:08
Originally by: Sswiftstrike
Can anybody mention a game with Good AI?
From oldest to newest:
Descent 2: In Descent, the robots would hide around corners and sneak up on you when you weren't looking. Especially the thiefbot. He was more of a trigger (look away and he'll come get you, then turn around and full salvos away!) but still, robots like Diamond Claws and Omega Kamikazes would really **** you off with their drive to get in your face and ruin your day.
Descent: Freespace.: In Freespace the enemies would really screw you up. They'd fly in circles to avoid your fire and make crazy realtime combat maneuvers to get around spray and pray.
Total Annihilation with AIhack: This simple hack brought out a level of AI that caused the TA AI to cheat... (to an extent) but then you got a REAL FIGHT that made you think, manage your resources, and really hunker down and decide if you need another Big Bertha..
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Nardon
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:16:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Cedori
Having ground to level 70 and several hundred AA's on two seperate Everquest Accounts. I can say that the PVE in EVE is basically identical to the PVE in everquest.
How could you say that with a straight face? Simplified enough of course it's the same. It's just you killing off the enemy. But by that definition we could lump in PvP too.
EVE's PvE is lacking in one part - aggro management. Because there is none. The designated tank goes in and grabs aggro. Afterwards he can do whatever he wants he will stay nr. 1 enemy of the state. Of course this is required as the helpers don't have the ability to repair the damage on the dps ships if the focus would switch. The only damage mitigation option I've seen is kiting.
Compared to that EQ has a very sophisticated system. Aggro is calculated dynamically upon the actions taken by the players. There are ways to selectivly grab aggro(pulling) minimize incoming damage on other chars(shielding!), reducing damage dealt by the npcs and so on.
Unless EVE starts to implement such mechanics there is no need for group play in PvE. You either can tank the rats or not.
Remote reppers are one step in the right direction but I would not want anybody to just sit there and keep the repper running while I have all the fun tanking and killing stuff.
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Ankanos
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:23:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 13/12/2006 10:50:08
Total Annihilation with AIhack: This simple hack brought out a level of AI that caused the TA AI to cheat... (to an extent) but then you got a REAL FIGHT that made you think, manage your resources, and really hunker down and decide if you need another Big Bertha..
hold the boat..... where can i get this AI hack? i love TA.
-clue me in please.. :)
-ank
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The Snowman
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:26:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Total Annihilation with AIhack: This simple hack brought out a level of AI that caused the TA AI to cheat... (to an extent) but then you got a REAL FIGHT that made you think, manage your resources, and really hunker down and decide if you need another Big Bertha..
Chris Taylor (who made TA) is about to release Supreme Commander... any TA fans should REALLY check it out :)
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Poker RPG
60 jumps 'Flop' by.. |
Nero Scuro
Caldari
Murder of Crows
E N I G M A
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:31:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Nero Scuro on 13/12/2006 11:32:29
Originally by: some noob
I guess that loot from missions in which you sell and/or refine is "pure Pve" too. I mean it isn't like you are selling the minerals or loot to another player right?
Use your brain before you post please.
Omg you're right! So if I buy a ship and pirate with it using money I got from missioning that makes missioning pirating right?
What you use the procedes of a mission for doesn't make missions anything other than PvEing. The market is not part of the agent system.
Use your brain before you post please.
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The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:37:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Eve has far too much PvE for my liking. Especially since there are advantages to running missions other than just earning ISK. That's just wrong. Even I've ended up running missions and have found they are the only thing lonlier than the empty parts of 0.0.
Nerf PvE in Eve tbh.
I'll give you a C for effort at flame-baiting. |
Apolitos
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:39:00 -
[45]
Sure PVE sucks, but then again in l3's when you warp in at some rooms warp scramble, they not that stupid after all. :P
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:45:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 13/12/2006 11:47:04
WoW PvE encounters are much more challenging at least until you have developed strategy and teamplay to beat them and are equipped for it.
The bosses use all kind of nasty tricks and sometimes the fight has different phases, where the mob behaves differently. The big instances are not supposed to be finished fast, so they are persistent for some days. One run takes many hours, but you can stop and continue on the next day.
Back in spring 2005, when there was a race towards the first kill of the highest boss (Ragnaros) on the european servers, I think we spend like 2 months in Molten Core or so, learning the instance, from trying to kill the first boss, until finally managing to kill Ragnaros. The guild we were competing with and who managed to kill him 1st on our server, was only 5 days faster. The time to learn to manage those encounters and get all the equipment to survive in the meantime just took so long.
It was always a race between our guilds, who has killed a certain boss first. First attempts were usually plain dying. Whole team annihilated.
Think nowadays my guild does the whole instance in one evening.
I don't play anymore. After killing Ragnaros a few times my goal was achieved. My guild went on to newer instances that came out, I had enough as it felt like work. My life was dominated by WoW high-level instance runs.
In EVE, PvE encounters, where you need a team of 40 coordinated and well equipped people, just don't exist. I did my first 10/10 complex run successfully. You just needed a good tank and some damage dealers with a lot of support drones. How to do the plex can be explained in a few sentences. There is no coordination/teamplay to train except putting the drones on the tank.
But imho EVE is a PvP game anyway, it would probably just distract from PvP, if such PvE existed.
People would spend too much time with it and with farming once they have learned how to beat the ai easily.
CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix. |
Jadis Jade
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:48:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Jadis Jade on 13/12/2006 11:48:05
I think the 'missions' part of the game needs a major upgrade.
I have had two friends try Eve and quit within the first month.
Both of them liked the idea of the game but felt the social element was weak. One of them commented how she never had a reason to group with anyone during her month of play. I know the game becomes more 'social' as one moves forward, joins a corporation, gets into much more difficult missions, etc. but people don't see any of that until they have been in Eve for months.
I think the increase in initial SPs is a tremendous help. It removes 1-2 months of tedium.
For missions, my greatest desire would be to see new agents added who are 'group mission' agents. From the beginning, all the missions they give out would be for a group. The ship classes for these group missions could be limited like in complexes. In this way, new characters could group with veterans and it would still be challenging. 'Group Mission' Agents would also bring players together and would vastly increase the social element of Eve for many players. |
Nate D
Naughty Ambitious Temptatious Endeavours
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:50:00 -
[48]
I believe that you can develop EVE's PvE system without taking away from it's PvP community.
That's another point though... I really wish missions didn't respawn after DT so I don't have to worry about starting missions too close to DT...
-NÖ
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Voice Comms are Coming
...SoonÖ
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PCaBoo
Newbies On Xstacy
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:51:00 -
[49]
It's a shame the NPC's are not a little smarter. I mean on the low-end of the scale, they're fine. We don't want new guys getting creamed, but the bigger guys should have some sort of intelligence boost. They should also be fitted with different modules and weapons, like a real fleet would. I think the game is pretty nice the way it is, but sometimes when i'm tired of PvP/Ganking and want to do run the occasional mission or go ratting. I don't because it's so boring so I just check my skill and either log or search out someone to grief.
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:54:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Anatolius
What's the difference between EVE and any other MMOG out there?
Very little. Boring repetative "quests" handed out. (We've got Agents!) Kill the same creatures over and over and over and over again. (We've got Sansha's!) Camping for weeks at a time to get some sort of rare item. (We've got Officers!)
the difference is - EVE shows you that grinding NPCs REALLY is boring. 
___________________
EVE: Revelations - The Game for Carebears and Gankbears
no more skill needed for PvP - only skillpoints for Large Bubble and CovOps n00b-alts |
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Ignis Penitus
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:58:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Nir
Yes but it ain't mandatory, thats the difference. You can quit anytime you want without having to worry about requiring 5593829 XP for your next level up.
-NÖ (Trademark my hairy arse. Sue me )
But mission running is required to gain standing; which is important in research and production. Or am I missing the point, since all the significant T2 BPOs have been given out?
I think it speaks volumes that the eve-online main page primarily promotes PVP tournaments, EVE TV about PVP tournaments and their trading card game.
"Technology solves nearly half the problems it creates." - Ignis
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Jadis Jade
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Posted - 2006.12.13 13:44:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Jadis Jade on 13/12/2006 13:46:56
While I am ranting on missions... 
The agent system should be scrapped in place of this...
1. Every corporation has only 1 agent and the corporation divisions goes away. NPC corporations and their agents are accessable through a 'snazzy' new simple interface.
2. The agent gives you missions that have levels based upon your current standing with the corporation.
3. You do not dock with a station to speak with an agent, you can speak with an agent from anywhere.
4. When you speak with an agent for a mission, the agent first asks you in what region you would like a mission (defaults to the current region the player is in). Then, rather than showing only 1 mission, there is a listing of the different mission types as well as multiple missions available for each.
This is the way it would be if I were Empress. |
Becham
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Posted - 2006.12.13 13:50:00 -
[53]
Unfortunately, the dreadfully boring things in EVE are what infuse isks/minerals into the game.
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Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2006.12.13 14:04:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Thoban Theis
See what the good PvP'ers do in fleet battles. Have the NPCs mirror those tactics.
I wholeheartedly agree. NPCs should definetely:
- warp out if they are outgunned
- scramble you if you are outgunned
- smacktalk in local
- Nos you and put drones on you
- MWD away at 10km/s
- snipe you from 200Km, warp off if you get any closer
:-)
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Thoban Theis
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Posted - 2006.12.13 14:05:00 -
[55]
Hehe, well let's call it "selective mirroring" then :D
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dumsnut
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.12.13 14:09:00 -
[56]
Quote:
For the new player, there are essentially only two things to do. 1. Missions and 2. Mining **yawn**. I know at this point many will say, "THERE ARE PLENTY OF OTHER THINGS FOR NEW PLAYERS TO DO...", and then proceed to give examples. This is not helpful however because the reality is that the majority of new players only understand missions and mining.
Word on that!
I've tried this game several times before (14-days trials), but never signed up for a subscription cause I've found the game rather boring. I think Eve loose a lot of players in their first month of game time. The new players have a hard time joining corps, the learning curve is rather steep, they don't have SP/knowledge for doing anything but mining and mission runs. I think mining is kinda boring and I like blowing things up, what can I do except from doing kill missions? There is no area for "rookie-PVP" as far as I know...
The devs need to make the game more interesting and fun for rookies is my 2c..
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Romeda
Minmatar
Trojan industries
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Posted - 2006.12.13 14:11:00 -
[57]
There is a vast amount of PvE in EVE, but PvP is what most players do, the problem with PvE is not the lack of content there is loads to play with, but things like mining, missions, trading and ratting, these are becoming grinding work that can make them boring and these need some positive changes.
The invention, salvaging and exploration areas are a better step in the right direction, something that requires effort, work and thinking to reap rewards.
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Agnar Koladrov
Gallente
Hurricane Corporation
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Posted - 2006.12.13 14:15:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: Thoban Theis
See what the good PvP'ers do in fleet battles. Have the NPCs mirror those tactics.
I wholeheartedly agree. NPCs should definetely:
- warp out if they are outgunned
- scramble you if you are outgunned
- smacktalk in local
- Nos you and put drones on you
- MWD away at 10km/s
- snipe you from 200Km, warp off if you get any closer
:-)
Would make mission runners get more used to PvP like tactics and PvP like setups.
If missions now would also include PvP like objectives, like scramble target X, to get information Y for final coordinates to finnish the mission.
________________________________________________
-- What a Revelation! --
Where was the creativty for speed/mass/etc when the tier2 Battlecruisers were designed? Why the same for each race BC? |
Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2006.12.13 14:17:00 -
[59]
Well there is a lot of potential for improvement here, but sadly, CCP has other things in mind (I wish I knew what it is).
For example, belt rats could call other rats in the system for support occasionally - those would warp off from other belts on top of you and help the NPCs you are shooting. Small change, great effect.
There could be cloaked rats, sneaking up to you like pirates in Pilgrim etc.
In addition to the boring hauler spawns, there could be the occasional NPC mining gang (with security, ore cans etc.). Nice training for ore thieves. ;-)
How about a chance to spawn the odd NPC gang hostile to the local NPCs? E.g. a Republic Fleet gang spawning in a belt, warping from belt to belt, to hunt Angels (both sides losing ships, but hey, stuff to salvage).
The recently added hidden plexes are an improvement (they have more complex game mechanics than belt rats and older plexes anyway), but they seem to be somewhat unpolished and unfinished. And, of course, they aren't as flexible as the examples above, where many different things could happen if you just give the NPCs some sort of AI, reactions to hostile factions and vary the spawns a bit.
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Atreides Horza
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Posted - 2006.12.13 14:17:00 -
[60]
I have to agree with the frustrations vented about repetitious gameplay when it comes to missions. What little time I spent on missions almost had me quit the game entirely...
I was thinking of ways to improve this, and one way might be to allow for the current 'play-by-agent' system to be more interactable.
What i'm thinking is leave the first sets of standard missions for newcomers to run through and get a chance to familiarize oneself with the game.
Then increase the assortment of spawns and events at asteroid fields, moons, etc to include faction attacks like True Sansha raiding parties, Giisti salvaging ops, etc etc... Things that would require every respectable corp operating in an area to employ scouts to determine the severity of obstacles, mission runners to clean out the enemy presence and make it possible for miners to work in the area, etc etc. Even make an interface system similar to escrow/contacts with customizable missions that would allow corp representatives to hire pilots for specific purposes...
Another way to make things interesting would be to increase the likeliness of bad guys showing up in roid fields in systems with complexes, so that these will have to be cleaned on a regular basis.
Ideas, ideas, I know... Just brain breezing here. :)
Imagine if the agents were players? Representatives
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The Snowman
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.12.13 14:25:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Romeda
The invention, salvaging and exploration areas are a better step in the right direction, something that requires effort, work and thinking to reap rewards.
its the main reason why I re-subscribed again, I hoped that 'exploration' would provide other distractions... along with salvaging etc.. although Ive not done much exploration yet due to real life interferance, I really am looking forward to it.
Also WTZ opens up low sec to a bit more traveling and exploration yay! exploration is really why I like pve.. crawling dungeons, finding "pots of gold".. all adds to the buzz.
But I DO want to pvp as well! - I just cant afford it at the moment :( and missions is the only thing I can/want to do to gain the bank roll.
so yea, its no wonder that so many new players try this game and never subscribe.
What eve needs are ALIEN encounters!!! :D
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Poker RPG
60 jumps 'Flop' by.. |
Achat Inanos
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Posted - 2006.12.13 17:11:00 -
[62]
What is currently defined as PvE content in EvE is fine. Leave it there for newcomers and starters for the game. It has its uses to get accustomed to learning a few basics of combat. I however wouldn't like to see similar content in higher end game. Rather give us, what we actually play EvE for, no non-sense science fiction. Heck, I play EvE for exploration, for actually having to use my brain (gasp) to outfit my ships and plan for the future. I love sitting in the vastness of space (that feeling is very good transported) and waiting for my scans to return data, while actively engaging in serious roleplaying (Reminds me a lot of the trucking era of the 70s). The last thing I want is having to actively grind (taking my full attention), instead of grinding on the sides :) EvE comes over as one of the games I run in the background to mine some more ores while in RL I talk to a client on the phone.
If there is anything, that should be improved immediately, it is more mysteries, more surprises - more omfg, what the hell is that ? Just one mystery like that gives another week of storytelling and RP. EvE certainly has found a niche, and for that I love it. Comparing EvE's PvE to any of the other MMORPGs out there is actually the wrong way to do it. I wouldn't like to see another for-the-masses game becoming out of EvE, trying to appeal to everyone and in the end satisfying no one.
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Aneeda
Aneeda's Flying Circus
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Posted - 2006.12.13 17:24:00 -
[63]
I fly missions sometimes. I cant say they are exactly funtastic. My desire to do them probably comes from the same part of my brain that urges me to play solitaire.
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SubTig
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Posted - 2006.12.13 17:31:00 -
[64]
To remove the linear aide of missions random events could be inserted..
ie for a courier mission there is a possibilty of an ambush
or on a kill missions unexpected reinforcements.
I don't know I have no imgaination.
It would be good to see level 5 missions opened up for corps. Having to take a whole range of ships to combat what ever threat there is instead of on the 4's just doing it solo it at worse 2 bs's can cruise through them easily.
SubTig
22acu
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Spiderweb
Caldari
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.12.13 17:41:00 -
[65]
WOW has 5 times better PVE than EVE.
though ppl who play EVE dont mind because EVE isnt about PVE. Its a free world, dedicated to the subscribers unlike other MMOs.
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"Light, in the Darkest of Hours..." |
Tousaka Langley
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Posted - 2006.12.13 18:03:00 -
[66]
I play MMO's to grow characer. When I can no longer grow, I quit playing. In that sense PVE in this game is fine. Currently me and a buddy are level 3 and level 4 (respectively) because he specced for BS's while I have been going for a CS (less then a week away :D) and then we can man handle complexes.
We both enjoy it, we both have busy lives and just doing a mission or two a day while switching up skills is about the most we can manage when school is on medium. On high we manage to trade up skills.
Leave it as is, a lot of people thrive on repetition. If I want to PVP I will buy myself a kestrel and use that in a jump clone.
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Melldorain
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Posted - 2006.12.13 20:12:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Melldorain on 13/12/2006 20:18:45
I can't say I'm overly fond of EVE's PvE comming from highend raiding in World of Warcraft. The scripting of the encounters and rewards can't be matched - And to a certain point; shouldn't..
I'm a new EVE player, clearly departed from WoW, and although I find the PvE experience lacking, it is very clear to me that EVE differ greatly from a lot of other MMO's in the nature; EVE is very territorial. It's highly about interacting with other players in a territorial way, be it blood or ISK. I find there are only limited means of fitting in PvE content in a game like this.
At the moment, as a new player, I'm running level 1 missions in a destroyer class bird - Clearly, dying is out of the question or simple unheard stupidity! (..admiting, it's happening ^^) - and it's not ground breaking entertainment..
However it does:
* Give PEWPEWPEW-action on demand!
* Give me a bit of ISK on the wanted red dots.
* A few named drops once in a while which is fine upgrades eighter for me or my wallet.
* Upon completion, I get a little reputation with the agent, corporation, star base which in return can open up for cheaper services and new preferable homes in the galaxy.
These missions don't have groundbreaking plots or anything, but from a RP'ish point of view do make bit of a sense; this corporation does have a bit of problem with some angry kids running loose, and seek my help to get a job done.
It can be argued if the rewards are worth it. But looking over it, the plot of this PvE 'quest' is pretty much what you could expect from a player run corporation, right?
What came to my attention in World of Warcraft (PvE-type raiding) is that the entertainment was mainly in the progress of winning, once you defeated a large encounter, after a few kills it was just one more to the list of boss you farmed like you did every time, every week - In my case, for months. I can't be the only one who thinks this get tedious. Surely taking a break from it and comming back throws a fresh breeze on it, but it won't last long; it's the same bulletproof tactics every time you kill this poor creature - No surprises, no rush! If the Enemy had AI that could deliver surprises and test the team - as in example a PvP-team - surely it would be much more entertaining. But that puts forth the question; "Why not just go PvP then?". The issue of 'on-demand'-action can of course be a valid reason, time-limiting issues (..work? ..family? O.o) as some time you just want to log-in and get some action. Seeking the type of action you're aiming at can be tricky in a PvP-type environment, where ie. asking an agent for something to wreck is pretty fast and easy...
What I'm trying to hint is: The PvE content of EVE is, and to my taste /should/ be, very small in the whole picture. EVE is about PvP, but not necessary in means of body count, a battle can also be fought by corporations in means of prices and access to blueprints and so on. As a player you decide how deep you will dip your nose in all this, or where you want to specialize.
To answer the OP:
There are a lot of other games out there that have more tactical and entertain PvE content, than EVE's missions. The longevity of the PvE content of these MMO's can be questioned, but the initial quality is clearly better. I think there could be improvements, but I don't really know how and to what extend it should be done.
Ahh, I'm rambling.. I'll shut it here :p
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