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Ceres Cherin
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:20:00 -
[1]
Okay, playing eve a good while, I get a few things. Some of the T2 ships confuse me however.
Interceptors? No problem. I get it. They're great tacklers and raiders, able to utterly decimate anything cruiser or smaller in single combat, even fitted T1. Great.
HACS? Got it. They're fast high-end Battlecruisers, in a smaller package with some being specialized like the Ishtar and the Vegabond.
Recons? Sure, they're either for EW warfare pwnage, or stealth/cyno generation. Perfectly reasonable and some are quite nasty (Rapier and Curse come to mind most)
Command Ships? Makes sense. They're more tanked battlecruisers with more firepower, and command link bonuses.
...
But what about Assault Frigs? I don't get what they're used for.
I know they're cruisers in frigate package.. but what good does that do? They're still a lot more expensive than a cruiser, require way more skills, fufill a PVP role an interceptor can do (besides being good at swatting interceptors), and are really bad against heavier ships which they take forever to kill.
so, what is the use of assault frigs? Besides being a fun package to fly?
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Flaming sambuka
Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:23:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Flaming sambuka on 13/12/2006 11:23:07
There great in a gang as the dedicated anti frig ship.
There great in small packs, fast and high damage dealing.
They can tackle and take alot more of a beating than an inty, although there not as fast.
Trinity Nova Mercenary Services |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:23:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 13/12/2006 11:23:54
Fun and effective in highly mobile gangs.
Wolfpacks of AFs can be fun and effective.
Good at anti-support (taking out enemy inties, etc).
Some of them can still tackle reasonably well.
IMO, anyway... I love my Ishkur (and have Jaguar in training)...
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Exiled One
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:24:00 -
[4]
Wolfpacks, anti-inty, 'heavy' tacklers. And just plain toys, get a rupture instead.
It's great being Amarr, aint it? |
Twilight Moon
Minmatar
Malicious Intentions
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:34:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Twilight Moon on 13/12/2006 11:37:46
They're fun too. 
Less concentration needed to fly one than an Inty too. Great for when you want a Frig, but the beer is overcoming you.
Oh yeah, and a Wolf with a damage mod of 17x is simply obscene. "Look, a Crow!" shortly becomes "Look!, an expanding cloud of gas, and a grumpy pod!". Gang only though....or at least I wouldn't want to solo in it.
(Empty Space - Thinking) |
Ceres Cherin
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:45:00 -
[6]
Now then. What's a good way to proceed? I'm Caldari and enjoying smaller ships. I dunno about either of their ships, and may want to consider cross training to either Gallente or Amarr.
The Ishkur and Enyo are of course two of the premeir AFs. With my already existing hybrid skills, I could do well there, particularly with Enyo.
With Amarr, the two assault frigs... how do they do? I know the Vengeance works with missiles and I have decent missile skills as well. Think that'll run well with railguns or blasters as the primary weapon, given the 'issues' with lasers? Or what about a hybrid armed Retribution?
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Jeanpierre Duvall
Caldari
Spectral Armada
Eternal Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.13 11:53:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Ceres Cherin
Think that'll run well with railguns or blasters as the primary weapon, given the 'issues' with lasers? Or what about a hybrid armed Retribution?
??? Have you ever fought a Retri? Those lasers really sting. And the Vengence is pretty good with lasers too. Fitting Hybrids on a Amarr ship is just wrong. Very wrong. Fitting Projs ok. (Projs don't use cap that is why.)
If you want to PvP just use a Laser Vengence, Harpy, Enyo or Ishkur. If you want to PvE use a Laser Retri, Harpy, Hawk or Ishkur. But AF's aren't the best ships from PvP.
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Olev
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Posted - 2006.12.13 12:00:00 -
[8]
hehe..rather treie my wolf with a damage mod of 20
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Beowulf Scheafer
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.13 12:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Ceres Cherin
Now then. What's a good way to proceed? I'm Caldari and enjoying smaller ships. I dunno about either of their ships, and may want to consider cross training to either Gallente or Amarr.
The Ishkur and Enyo are of course two of the premeir AFs. With my already existing hybrid skills, I could do well there, particularly with Enyo.
With Amarr, the two assault frigs... how do they do? I know the Vengeance works with missiles and I have decent missile skills as well. Think that'll run well with railguns or blasters as the primary weapon, given the 'issues' with lasers? Or what about a hybrid armed Retribution?
my personal choice in af is a blaster harpy. there is no other dishing out more dmg.
it won't take as much as a retri or a hawk, but in wolfpacks, even in small sized ones its absolutly awesome :-)
but maybe you are the type of player that takes numbers over opinions :
10.12 dmg mod
2.01 rof
4 times with void...
definately nothing against npc's, but for pvp sure one hell of a killmailproducer.
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MrLobster
Cosmic Odyssey
Chorus of Dawn
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Posted - 2006.12.13 12:27:00 -
[10]
I was looking at the all the drone boats for gallente, and noticed that the ishkur is a bit lacking on the drone bay bonus per level.
Dominix: 375m3 (No DroneBay Bonus)
EOS: 50m3 (+50m3 Per Level, Total 300m3)
Ishtar: 125m3 (+50m3 per level, Total 375m3)
Vexor: 75m3 (No DroneBay Bonus)
Ishkur: 5m3 (+5m3 per level, Total 30m3)
I do realise that the ishkur is better than any other frig type (for dronebay), but it still would be better to be able to use T2 Medium Drones with it.
So would a 10m3 bonus per level be too unbalanced for the ishkur?
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Better? - MrLobster |
Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H.
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.13 12:29:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ceres Cherin
I know they're cruisers in frigate package.. but what good does that do? They're still a
An Assault Frig behaves to a Frig in the same way an F-22 behaves to an F-16. One is more capable, the other is dirt cheap. 
--
[21:54:01] BaroteToo > cheyenne shadowborn is an ore theiving dead puke if I catch him |
Twilight Moon
Minmatar
Malicious Intentions
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Posted - 2006.12.13 12:39:00 -
[12]
Originally by: MrLobster
Ishkur: 5m3 (+5m3 per level, Total 30m3)
I do realise that the ishkur is better than any other frig type (for dronebay), but it still would be better to be able to use T2 Medium Drones with it.
So would a 10m3 bonus per level be too unbalanced for the ishkur?
It gets 40m3 total. 15m3 Base + 25m3 from the AF skill.
Thats 3 Medium T2 Drones plus 2 Light T2 Drones. And then its got its high slots to play with too. the Ishkur is definitely NOT lacking.
If ti was +10m3 per level you'd end up with 65m3 Ishkurs, enough for 2 T2 Ogre's and 3 T2 Lights....and that just wrong. 
....but oh so right at the same time... 
(Empty Space - Thinking) |
Aterna
Minmatar
M'8'S
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Posted - 2006.12.13 12:42:00 -
[13]
They are good alongside inty's in wolfpacks, and vs inty's in 1v1 pvp if kitted properly. rail enyo has a good enough tracking bonus to fight off an inty before it can kill the enyo.
Main reason to take an AF over a cruiser is mobility. I would not have been able to escape from the vagabond that chased me around in 0.0 the other day in my thorax. I was able to do it in my ishkur.
As far as the ishkur, with AF 5 it can field 3x medium 2x lights. that's a lot of dps with high drone skills and blasters fitted.
I suppose solo belt piracy would be one use for an AF, though I would prefer an inty myself.
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Lustralis
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Posted - 2006.12.13 12:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn
Originally by: Ceres Cherin
I know they're cruisers in frigate package.. but what good does that do? They're still a
An Assault Frig behaves to a Frig in the same way an F-22 behaves to an F-16. One is more capable, the other is dirt cheap.
Apart from the AF I fly: Retribution. These are mostly damage dealers with rock solid tanks. Honestly, it's hard as a pebble, but it can't tackle :( and often ends up in ghey dances with Interceptors like Crows - crow can't scratch it's tank, it can't hit the crow. See, it's all Paper, Scissors, Stone.
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Elfman
Obsidian Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.13 12:50:00 -
[15]
blah enyo fitted right eats a inty in seconds - no need to drive it off etc.
and enyo and ishkur can actually tank and fight so no probs there ;)
only thing a inty really has over AF's is speed.
Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis.
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Sonreir
Gallente
Band of Builders Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.13 12:56:00 -
[16]
AFs are basically toys. They're fun to fly and pack more of a punch than their T1 counterpart. As with anything high-end, expect to pay 10 times as much for something that may only be twice as good.
To the OP, your descriptions of Inties and HACs is pretty far from the truth. Inties are quite fragile ships whose main advantage is speed and lock time. They go down fairly easy to anything except T1 frigs. Also, HACs are not battlecruisers, they're cruisers.
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Exogene
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Posted - 2006.12.13 13:01:00 -
[17]
/me strokes his Wolf..."My precious"
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Trefnis
Solidline Enterprise
Kith of Venal
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Posted - 2006.12.13 14:01:00 -
[18]
I dont care about rest of afs but in my wolf with gank fit I could 1 volley a ceptor and 1 shot t1 frig (both happened, thou 1 shot frig only once ).
That is what I call fun when two ceptors try to engage sure of win and one is in pod after 1 volley and the other run with skidmarks before he even start hitting you
ps. all that before last patch  (didnt try after)
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Warpup
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Posted - 2006.12.13 14:17:00 -
[19]
heh well i onced solo killed a scorpion in my enyo suffice to say the scorp pilot was a noob with no jamming yet it was still done the enyo is a hard nut to ***** and usefull in many scenario's
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Ann Droide
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Posted - 2006.12.13 14:26:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Ann Droide on 13/12/2006 14:29:21
What do Assault Frigates have going for them?
They look cool and they're fun to fly. Thats about it though, they are completely outclassed. Destroyers make better anti-tacklers and tech 1 Cruisers make better tank/damage platforms.
Of course some people will have you believe they can kill Battleships and Cruisers in their AFs just fine, however most of these are NPC'ers and apart from a few clueless caracal pilots you'll be hard pressed to kill even a low SP PVP cruiser pilot in an AF aslong as the cruiser is setup properly (web, disruptor, nos, tank)
Edit: The person above me illustrates my point perfectly lol.
Oh and Trefnis, you've obviously never tried a Thraser before. It outperforms the Wolf something stupid for like 30% the cost.
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JeanPierre
Gallente
Acheron Vanguard Armada
The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2006.12.13 14:47:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ann Droide
Edited by: Ann Droide on 13/12/2006 14:29:21
What do Assault Frigates have going for them?
They look cool and they're fun to fly. Thats about it though, they are completely outclassed. Destroyers make better anti-tacklers and tech 1 Cruisers make better tank/damage platforms.
Of course some people will have you believe they can kill Battleships and Cruisers in their AFs just fine, however most of these are NPC'ers and apart from a few clueless caracal pilots you'll be hard pressed to kill even a low SP PVP cruiser pilot in an AF aslong as the cruiser is setup properly (web, disruptor, nos, tank)
Edit: The person above me illustrates my point perfectly lol.
Oh and Trefnis, you've obviously never tried a Thraser before. It outperforms the Wolf something stupid for like 30% the cost.
I've taken down the BC's in my Vengeance before (T2 loaded all the way on my end of course, and prior to Kali release).
There is no "will have you believe". I've done it. Taken down cruisers too (piece of cake, that).
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Ever notice that people who spend money on beer, cigarettes, and lottery tickets are always complaining about being broke and not feeling well? |
Colonel Branigain
E Systems
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Posted - 2006.12.13 18:19:00 -
[22]
Uses for assault frigates are many and as varied as the pilots who fly them. I've used the enyo for mission running on the cheap through level 3 missions personally.. only did duo of death level 4 successfully in it and that took FOREVER. The ishkur(sp?) is a wonderful ship for a variety of roles from mission running to gang pvp work. I've also used the ishkur as a hacking platform for some of the cosmos complexes that wouldn't let in hacs to good effect.
Regardless of the prices (which aren't really that steep if you can run level 3 missions you can afford to keep a few around) they are very fun to fly and have myrid uses.
As a side note in one low sec system I visited recently a group of corps had pooled some assault frig pilots to form a police force to fly around and protect their mining assests from pvp attack... was interesting to see 5 types of assault ships racing around the system. (Hats off to the pilots you guys were impressive)
Further the skill assault ships is still required as a prerequisite for the hac skill, which is required for the command ship skill... so its a good skill to bring up to at least 4 if you intend to pursue those ships.
Just my two cents
Flame away
We hate Mirph, its the kind of personal, deep down loathing that makes you pet your favorite gun and smile. Yes we hate Mirph, the kind of hate that keeps our lasers warm, and our railguns low on ammo |
Audemed
Evisceration.
Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.12.13 19:18:00 -
[23]
AF's are great ships for solo piracy or hunting 0.0. Powerful enough to kill most cruisers and everything smaller, fast enough to get away from anything too big to kill (for the most part, screwed if that sniperthron has tacklers ). Even bagged a ratting ferox in my ishkur once (although it took nearly an eternity).
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Kay Rissa
The Priory
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.13 19:40:00 -
[24]
blaster-rax vs AF = dead frig in seconds
AF r too slow to run !
Proud member of Rage of Angels |
Jason Marshall
Infinite Innovations
Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2006.12.13 19:41:00 -
[25]
Ive destroyed a 6 month old raven pilot in my ishkur....sure the guy was shooting torps at my light drones.....but i killed him . It has enough DPS to break a battleship tank, he was tanked for kinetic and thermal....my drones were Hobgoblin IIs and i was using Hybrids....so i was doing enough to kill him.
Tacky lens flares in sigs 4tw! |
Setana Manoro
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2006.12.13 19:43:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ann Droide
Edited by: Ann Droide on 13/12/2006 14:29:21
What do Assault Frigates have going for them?
They look cool and they're fun to fly. Thats about it though, they are completely outclassed. Destroyers make better anti-tacklers and tech 1 Cruisers make better tank/damage platforms.
Of course some people will have you believe they can kill Battleships and Cruisers in their AFs just fine, however most of these are NPC'ers and apart from a few clueless caracal pilots you'll be hard pressed to kill even a low SP PVP cruiser pilot in an AF aslong as the cruiser is setup properly (web, disruptor, nos, tank)
Edit: The person above me illustrates my point perfectly lol.
Oh and Trefnis, you've obviously never tried a Thraser before. It outperforms the Wolf something stupid for like 30% the cost.
It's not that some ppl are uber. It's just that few actually know how to fit a ship right and many follow the rule "the biggest the better".
PS: I also took out T1 cruisers with frigs that had little or no tank. It's all in the transversal. :)
--------------------------------------------------
Always look on the bright side of life. :) |
Trefnis
Solidline Enterprise
Kith of Venal
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Posted - 2006.12.13 19:52:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ann Droide
Oh and Trefnis, you've obviously never tried a Thraser before. It outperforms the Wolf something stupid for like 30% the cost.
Not sure how you got that 30% of cost becouse you need 3 more guns on thrasher, you are killed much faster in untanked dessy than untanked wolf, you are slower to warp/lock and pretty much anything else.
Now with the nice hp buff for dessy it is a different story thou.
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neccette
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.12.13 20:53:00 -
[28]
Here's a couple big uses for AFs.
1. Complex tanks... They excel at this role. Get together 1 AF pilot, 4 or 5 BSes, and hit that 10/10. I've even been in a complex gang that was down to two battleship and one AF because of random crashes and still finished a Serpentis 10/10.
2. Ratting in hostile space. just go anchor a GSC full of ammo in an out of the way 0.0 system and make some money. watch local and hit your safespot if someone jumps in. you can then spend the next 15 minutes warping to different safespots until your aggression timer runs out or they get tired of trying to find you and leave. They cannot catch you since you warp away fast enough to keep from being scanned out.
Yes, these are PvE reasons for a ship. But regardless of what PvPers say, PvE is an important part of the game or else there would not be belt rats, missions and complexes. |
Ann Droide
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Posted - 2006.12.13 21:43:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Trefnis
Not sure how you got that 30% of cost becouse you need 3 more guns on thrasher, you are killed much faster in untanked dessy than untanked wolf
Yes you need 3 more guns to fit a full rack, but aren't you forgetting something here? Cost of a Thrasher is almost nothing, cost of a Wolf is pretty high since you can't insure them. For what you're using the Wolf for (Anti Tackler) the below is just plain better, period.
Thrasher
7x 280 II
0-1x Rocket Launcher (optional)
2-3x Sensor Booster II (or T1, it doesn't really matter)
0-1x Tracking Computer
2x Gyro II
Quote:
you are slower to warp/lock and pretty much anything else.
Slow to warp? AFs aren't exactly agile themselves, they handle roughly the same. Oh and you insta lock interceptors with the above so its hardly "slower"
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Phelan Lore
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2006.12.13 21:53:00 -
[30]
AFs = frigs for PvE
In PvP you can always do better with a cruiser or destroyer (depending on what role you are trying to fill).
Sniggwaffe is recruiting |
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