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PVP Character - missiles or not?

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Kadar Monka	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:25:00 - [1] I've currently got 1.5 mil in missiles and can rat in a raven reasonably well (cruise 3/torp3) but I'm not sure whether to continue to skill up in missiles, or whether I should look at other races ships and start to train in gunnery. So, for a pvp character who mainly does fleet and small gang pvp are missiles worth specialising in or shall I go another route?
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:42:00 - [2] Missiles do well for 2 reasons 1. They have long ranges and can hit at all ranges inside that equally well, you dont have any dead zones. 2. They can focus all damage into one area, not a great boon against t1 ships but against t2 ships it definitly a HUGE advantage over all turrents. 3. No cap use so you can run massive tanks Just keep in mind that just because a particular race has a weak resist of a certain type naturally does not mean that the pilot didnt focus on that resist making something else the weak one, scanning ships of potential targets some time in advance is a great help. Hybrids have a naturally higher DPS than missiles but they also ALWAYSE do therm/kinetic so people can focus all their resists into those 2 and largely negate your damage provided they are expecting to fight hybrid boats (its a fatal mistake to do this and say come up against someone using explosive missiles). If you dont bother to fire the missile type weak to a ship you might aswell use hybrids or lasers depending on preferences(hybrid = good vs armor, decent vs shield/ Laser = excellect vs Shield, Poor vs armor) as they will alwayse out perform improper missile selection inside their optimal ranges. The addition of heavy assault missiles went a long way to increase close range DPS from missile cruisers IMPORTANT! Avoid firing all your missiles at once, any ninny in a frigate with smart bombs can easily intercept every single one of your missiles before they reach their target (other than the frigate) if you do this.
Jean'Luc Well'Ard Caldari OLE Mining Corp Miners With Attitude	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:42:00 - [3] missiles are rubbish for pvp, i trained cruise spec 5, then the damage reduction came into force, and to be blunt the only thing your going to kill with those is standard tech1 cruisers at best, you wont kill a battleship and certainly not any tech2 cruisers or battlecruisers, their just not good enough. Torps arent much better either, again only good for another battleship, everything below that you will dent a little but never break. Train gunnery... Missile Battleships are nothing to be feared, their damage output is limp at best, your far better off in a tech2 cruiser or battlecruiser. Famous Last Words: Well, we've made it this far. The odds of that happening have to be a million to one.
Mutant Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:42:00 - [4] I'd personally say train for Gunnery.With missiles you can't do Fleet Battles as well as you can with say 425mm Rails.Even in small gangs Turrets are more fun because if some can get insta-popped your missiles more then likely wont hit him in time .
wierchas noobhunter Caldari Kemono.	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:43:00 - [5] go missiles i am WIERCHAS i am like UBER and stuff
Rehmes	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:46:00 - [6] IMO missiles have always been a support weapon platform. They dont do instant damage and compared to guns they simply dont do enough damage. Its true they dont use cap and that u can use all dmg types but then again so can minmatar. I'd go for gunnery all the way, missiles = PVE or support in a gang gunnery can do all of those. Though i admit missiles do better in pve but that is all.
Malakai0 Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.14 20:58:00 - [7] I'd say both, as intended. I'd focus more on t2 gunnery (since t2 gurrets get multiple bonuses over t1, vs ROF only for T2), but get your missle skills good too. If you fly caldari or minmatar you should be training both no question. _________________________ Level 3 Member of Eye of God - Axiom Empire
Serric Caldari The Clearwater Society	Posted - 2006.12.14 21:20:00 - [8] Missile users are all over the killboards I read..
Kadar Monka	Posted - 2006.12.14 22:14:00 - [9] Thanks for that, some interesting things to consider. If I was to go for gunnery in a big way are rails a good thing to go for or should I just train for a different race and use lasers or projectiles?
xHalcyonx Amarr CyberDyne Industries Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.14 22:22:00 - [10] Projectiles can do all damage types and use no capacitor to fire. Arties have a low dps and low alpha strike when compared to Rail boats and Laser boats. With your decent skills in missles, Minmatar will serve you well as they have many BS's that can utilize guns as well as torps and cruises.
Mutant Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.14 22:24:00 - [11] T2 Railguns and Blasters 4tw .Fly a Gallente blaster boat(Thorax,Megathron,Taranis,Brutix etc) and see how much fun.
GrumpyCat	Posted - 2006.12.14 22:43:00 - [12] Go missiles if you want to fly inties. Go gunnery for anything else. Lack of damage and shield tanking on caldari ships aren't a great for pvp. Anyway if you want to play around and figure the stuff out for yourself with minimal invested skill points, go with caldari and get into an AF. Compare the hawk with the harpie with T2 ammo. My opinion being Amarr pilot on my alt and caldari on my main Missiles for PVE Gunnery for PVP
Mutant Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.14 22:48:00 - [13] Originally by: GrumpyCat Go missiles if you want to fly inties. Go gunnery for anything else. Lack of damage and shield tanking on caldari ships aren't a great for pvp. Anyway if you want to play around and figure the stuff out for yourself with minimal invested skill points, go with caldari and get into an AF. Compare the hawk with the harpie with T2 ammo. My opinion being Amarr pilot on my alt and caldari on my main Missiles for PVE Gunnery for PVP Why does he have to go missiles for an Inty?
Karees Gallente GalacTECH Unlimited	Posted - 2006.12.14 22:48:00 - [14] As a Caldari pilot that wants to go guns, I would go railguns. You have a railgun BS now and only will have to train up the gunnery skills without having to train up another race to battleship.
Aeaus Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.12.14 22:51:00 - [15] Originally by: Jean'Luc Well'Ard missiles are rubbish for pvp, i trained cruise spec 5, then the damage reduction came into force, and to be blunt the only thing your going to kill with those is standard tech1 cruisers at best, you wont kill a battleship and certainly not any tech2 cruisers or battlecruisers, their just not good enough. Torps arent much better either, again only good for another battleship, everything below that you will dent a little but never break. Train gunnery... Missile Battleships are nothing to be feared, their damage output is limp at best, your far better off in a tech2 cruiser or battlecruiser. Ahaha. Have you checked how much DPS a Raven can do? Now apply that to perfect hits and no worries about transversal or range/damage ratios and you have one of the best possible ships for small gang PVP. The issues are more around where one type of ship is useful vs the other, missile boats won't do you much good in fleets, but small gangs are where they serriously shine.
Mutant Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.14 22:54:00 - [16] Originally by: Aeaus Originally by: Jean'Luc Well'Ard missiles are rubbish for pvp, i trained cruise spec 5, then the damage reduction came into force, and to be blunt the only thing your going to kill with those is standard tech1 cruisers at best, you wont kill a battleship and certainly not any tech2 cruisers or battlecruisers, their just not good enough. Torps arent much better either, again only good for another battleship, everything below that you will dent a little but never break. Train gunnery... Missile Battleships are nothing to be feared, their damage output is limp at best, your far better off in a tech2 cruiser or battlecruiser. Ahaha. Have you checked how much DPS a Raven can do? Now apply that to perfect hits and no worries about transversal or range/damage ratios and you have one of the best possible ships for small gang PVP. The issues are more around where one type of ship is useful vs the other, missile boats won't do you much good in fleets, but small gangs are where they serriously shine. I didnt know Missiles got perfect hits .Plus have you seen how much DPS a Mega can dish out?Plus it does instant damage unlike your Raven....
GrumpyCat	Posted - 2006.12.14 22:55:00 - [17] Originally by: Mutant Caldari Originally by: GrumpyCat Go missiles if you want to fly inties. Go gunnery for anything else. Lack of damage and shield tanking on caldari ships aren't a great for pvp. Anyway if you want to play around and figure the stuff out for yourself with minimal invested skill points, go with caldari and get into an AF. Compare the hawk with the harpie with T2 ammo. My opinion being Amarr pilot on my alt and caldari on my main Missiles for PVE Gunnery for PVP Why does he have to go missiles for an Inty? Because the crow will own any intie 1 vs 1 since it can sit at 17km a nail the crap out of you while your short range guns can't hit and your long range guns can't track.
Mutant Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.14 22:57:00 - [18] Originally by: GrumpyCat Originally by: Mutant Caldari Originally by: GrumpyCat Go missiles if you want to fly inties. Go gunnery for anything else. Lack of damage and shield tanking on caldari ships aren't a great for pvp. Anyway if you want to play around and figure the stuff out for yourself with minimal invested skill points, go with caldari and get into an AF. Compare the hawk with the harpie with T2 ammo. My opinion being Amarr pilot on my alt and caldari on my main Missiles for PVE Gunnery for PVP Why does he have to go missiles for an Inty? Because the crow will own any intie 1 vs 1 since it can sit at 17km a nail the crap out of you while your short range guns can't hit and your long range guns can't track. Crows also cost about 25 mil a piece and well setup Taranis can give a Crow a run for it's money.
GrumpyCat	Posted - 2006.12.14 22:59:00 - [19] Originally by: Karees As a Caldari pilot that wants to go guns, I would go railguns. You have a railgun BS now and only will have to train up the gunnery skills without having to train up another race to battleship. Caldari has some nice gunnery ships. Eagle, Harpy and Rokh. It is missing a decent gunnery BC and gunnery cruiser. As for training just for caldari. I'd recommend you also get into gallente aswell especially for cruisers and BCs. Rax is a great ship and so is the brutix.
Cythrawl Caldari Central Defiance Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.12.14 23:47:00 - [20] Seriously, caracals are my favorite ship for pvp. Means good missiles, but you don't have to go overboard. I tend to fly a no-tank setup on my heavy launcher ship. But, with the lvl 5 in cruisers and my skills at decent levels, I pull down just at 110km range from it. Slap a few sensor damps on it, I become a non-target for anything that's not a seriously sensor boosted sniper. That leaves me with the simple problem of having a friend to do the 'dirty' work of tackling. I also fly an assault launcher caracal for those times when inty pilots seem to be making themselves a hassle. T2 precision bloodclaws with the caracal eat intys alive. I popped a crow last night in 3 volleys. With my skills right now, thats about 15-18 seconds of combat, hardly any reaction time. Slapping double webs and a 20k scramb, most intys who have the guts to come close are toasted before they can move back outside of range. There's just no survival rate. And hell, even if I loose the caracal, if I can take 1-2 intys with me, I've won the ISK war. =+=+=+=+=+=+= Time to go with a more... Honest, sig.
Victor Ramirez	Posted - 2006.12.15 00:48:00 - [21] Well, missiles don't wreck so your bio will pretty much be limited to either evil bunny or beer truck.
Bernadett	Posted - 2006.12.15 01:28:00 - [22] Edited by: Bernadett on 15/12/2006 01:28:12 Originally by: Victor Ramirez Well, missiles don't wreck so your bio will pretty much be limited to either evil bunny or beer truck. May i breed your offspring?
xHalcyonx Amarr CyberDyne Industries Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.15 02:02:00 - [23] Originally by: Victor Ramirez Well, missiles don't wreck so your bio will pretty much be limited to either evil bunny or beer truck. I got bored and colored my beer truck the other day...my best wrecking is about 127 with DLPL II on my punisher...stupid lasers. (I'm switching over to Arbitrator when i get drone skills decent in mid january, enyo and ishkur with T2 blasters and railguns each spec 4, all relevant gunnery skills to 4 except trajectory analysis [no time to train Gunnery 5 till october 2007], then Curse & Pilgrim, then Wolf and Jaguar, then the other race's AFs and I will be good to go.)
Abye Caldari UNITED STARS ORGANISATION	Posted - 2006.12.15 02:21:00 - [24] People overplay the role of fleet battles. YES, in fleet battles missile boats are terrible, however in smaller gang combat the steady damage works out and it's not that ships pop in seconds, so your steady alwaysthesame dps works out. The ranges are also a lot smaller than in fleet battles, no travel time is a smaller issue. If you go hardcore for fleetbattles going for turret ships is a must. If you do mostly small gang combat a missle boat will do okay.
Ford Chicago	Posted - 2006.12.15 06:48:00 - [25] As a Caldari pilot with significant missile skills who mostly flies in 5-10 person gangs I'm happy with my ships and skills. No, I'm never the top damage dealer and get few killmails, but... Inty: Crow. My favorite ship. I fit 3 standard launchers and orbit at 15k. Perfect for fast scramble, stays out of web range. Will never get high damage but is very helpful to the gang. Will get a lot of pod kills. Cruiser: Caracal. Fitted either with 5 Assault Launchers or 5 T2 precision heavies. Perfect anti-frig/anti-inty platform. Battlecruiser: Drake. Full rack of T2 Heavies or Heavy Assaults give great damage with a huge tank. Caldari are mostly support ships. I rely on my gang mates to dish out the damage, but these ships are great support and fill a special role in small gang warfare. I wouldn't generally run around in these ships solo, but as part of a gang they work great.
EPSILON DELTA	Posted - 2006.12.15 07:07:00 - [26] Edited by: EPSILON DELTA on 15/12/2006 07:07:07 Even though I spec in missiles I would say go for guns, 3/4 races uses guns as primiary weapon so you have more freedom in the long run. having said that, missiles no longer have the lowest dps as a drake with heavyII can do more damage than some HACs while still having beast tank, the missiles never miss and with a target painter precision missiles can pop a small shp before they figured out what happened.
Jean'Luc Well'Ard Caldari OLE Mining Corp Miners With Attitude	Posted - 2006.12.16 14:24:00 - [27] Originally by: Aeaus Originally by: Jean'Luc Well'Ard missiles are rubbish for pvp, i trained cruise spec 5, then the damage reduction came into force, and to be blunt the only thing your going to kill with those is standard tech1 cruisers at best, you wont kill a battleship and certainly not any tech2 cruisers or battlecruisers, their just not good enough. Torps arent much better either, again only good for another battleship, everything below that you will dent a little but never break. Train gunnery... Missile Battleships are nothing to be feared, their damage output is limp at best, your far better off in a tech2 cruiser or battlecruiser. Ahaha. Have you checked how much DPS a Raven can do? Now apply that to perfect hits and no worries about transversal or range/damage ratios and you have one of the best possible ships for small gang PVP. The issues are more around where one type of ship is useful vs the other, missile boats won't do you much good in fleets, but small gangs are where they serriously shine. As for things shining, in a gang you could be in a kestrel with light missiles, you could be in a blackbird with heavys, or yes a raven with anything, just because things die when your in a gang doesnt mean your the deciding damage dealer, try the raven with torps or cruise vs a fully tanked (usual standard full usual 2 rep, 3-4 active hardener tank) up opponent in your corp, be it a battleship or definatly a t2 battlecruiser or assault cruiser, i doubt youd break it. Famous Last Words: Well, we've made it this far. The odds of that happening have to be a million to one.
Felix Dzerzhinsky	Posted - 2006.12.16 15:10:00 - [28] Edited by: Felix Dzerzhinsky on 16/12/2006 15:11:55 Missle lag is definately an issue, and for large scale fleet ops, they can be an issue. But for small gang (10 and below) pvp situations, the Raven is a serious monster. The trick is to go after the big boats and leave the small ships to small ships. I always like to go for Domis and other NoS driven ships first - they can be a pain. Megas and Geddons will run dry on their own. And the graphic for missles is great - you only miss it when you are not using them though. As for guns: Projectiles are popular these days becuase of the cap issues ships are having, and people are discovering that they are doing that much less DPS with projectile guns. Blasters are fantastic, lots of dps, lots of get close and murder, lots of cap batteries. Lasers are very nice. The thing I like about lasers is the crystal icons. They are very easy to read (a big red, white, blue, whatever circle) and don't change icons by ammo size. A multispec crystal (white) will always look like a white circle even if its small, medium or large. Other ammos' icons change size and shape and can be hard to see. but I'd say get to T2 torps and cruise, Jav torps alone will make you love torps all over again. And skills like missle projection and such do make a big difference in the speed and damge those missles do.

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