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GUIDE: Avoiding Contract Scams

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El Verbatim	Posted - 2007.01.10 11:38:00 - [31] Originally by: DarknessInc Hey! I just found an awesome deal on minerals! Should I get it! NO. Do not accept unknown contracts on the market for minerals. Mineral contract scams are appearing more and more often, and now are a second way of income for scammers besides Free Form contracts. If there are so many scammers. Why trust contracts at all? Because there are rules in place. Make sure only to accept Contracts from inside your alliance or corporation (hehe. if your corpmate scams you, Blow him up and pod him back to the stone age!!!) AND AND accept Contracts from people you make deals with upon the forums. Forum deals are BINDING, and if you are scammed from a Forum deal, CCP will enforce the terms of the deal. But this applies to FORUM CONTRACT DEALs only. Also EVEmails between you and the seller, clarifying what your buying, for how much, and where it will be located. (This also applies to buying GTC ingame/on the forums) mmm... although you're giving good information, you're basically tellling eveyrone to stop using the contracts except if it's intercorp or interalliance? Not really fair I think. The mineral scam is caused by the description the creator uses (for example Zydrine x 10000) coupled with adding 1 unit of zydrine to the contract so you see the icon for 'Zydrine' in the contract in the bottom. Problem is that only the icon is shown and not the real amount (1 unit). If he would have added more then 1 unit, the contract would have shown this as (icon of zydrine x xxxxx units). That's the problem with the scams. Does this mean you should never trust a mineral contract? I don't think so... there are a lot of legit contracts involving minerals, you just have to be aware of how you can get scammed to filter out the wrong ones. Simply saying that you should never accept a mineral contract is a bit much in my opinion. I use contracts a lot in the correct way, mostly Couriers, Item Exchanges and a few Auctions and I'm glad most people still accept my contracts. As long as they make sure for themselves it's not a scam, they'll be ok. Telling them to stop using the contracts is not right. I also don't see the link with the forums. Do you propose that we make a forum post each time we want to create a contract for an item exchange? I agree on the freeform contracts. Each time you see one of time, be VERY carefull as it's mostly a scam. If the collateral is 0, you're pretty much ok and it's probably just a 'formal' agreement between you and the creator. If collateral is filled in, be sure to trust that person 100 percent.
El Verbatim	Posted - 2007.01.10 11:47:00 - [32] There are other types of 'scams' although they're harder to detect and make legit use of the contract system. An example of these are Courier missions. On the other hand, if you're lucky, you're not scammed at all so they can be avoided even after accepting the contract. Example: If someone makes a legit courier contract and you accept for a certain amount of reward and a decent collateral. You take the package and start heading out towards your destination. The creator now has the following information: He knows your destination (he set that up himself) and he knows your name. If getting from origin to destination brings you through low-sec or even worse, 0.0, there's a big risk he's waiting for you to make sure you never reach your destination. He'll destroy your ship and if lucky can even recover the item while you loose the collateral. Although these are hard to detect and to predict (cause you can pick the time yourself to make the trip so he might miss you cause he's offline), you can check up on his contract history to see if he has a lot of 'failed' courier missions. This is typically a sign that you should think twice before accepting. If he has lots of courier missions, even to low-sec or 0.0, but most are successful (there's always the risk you get ganked by another pirate), you might decide to risk it, but it's up to you. Other examples of similar courier contracts are: very good reward but high collateral (>20 or even 50 mil isk) and 20 jumps deep into 0.0. Usually you're going to a very crowded 0.0 system where they're whacking neutrals 23/7 so it will be hard to deliver the package. Watch out for those.
El Verbatim	Posted - 2007.01.10 11:49:00 - [33] Edited by: El Verbatim on 10/01/2007 11:47:49 Originally by: DarknessInc Cant I look at Contract history to see if their a scammer? NO! The answer is No. It is impossible to see the history of someone who is a scammer, unless they are a public auction scammer using the mineral scam. That appears on the history being as the Contract was public. Freeform scammers use PRIVATE contracts. Unable to see Are you sure about this? I don't have much experience with freeform contracts, but the standard contracts which were set up as being private, are perfectly visible in the contract history AFTER they're finished. They are only visible to the person they're assigned when they're still Outstanding. Once finished, they show up the same in contract history like public contracts. Even more, you cannot tell the difference between a contract that was created as public or as private when they're finished. Again, no idea how this works with freeforms though but my idea is that they work the same. The contracts that are hidden for the general public are the ones that were created 'for my corporation' or 'for my alliance'. Only members of the same corp/alliance can see them I believe (not 100 percent sure though, can't check as I'm in the office).
DarknessInc Minmatar Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2007.01.18 04:04:00 - [34] Originally by: El Verbatim Edited by: El Verbatim on 10/01/2007 11:47:49 Originally by: DarknessInc Cant I look at Contract history to see if their a scammer? NO! The answer is No. It is impossible to see the history of someone who is a scammer, unless they are a public auction scammer using the mineral scam. That appears on the history being as the Contract was public. Freeform scammers use PRIVATE contracts. Unable to see Are you sure about this? I don't have much experience with freeform contracts, but the standard contracts which were set up as being private, are perfectly visible in the contract history AFTER they're finished. They are only visible to the person they're assigned when they're still Outstanding. Once finished, they show up the same in contract history like public contracts. Even more, you cannot tell the difference between a contract that was created as public or as private when they're finished. Again, no idea how this works with freeforms though but my idea is that they work the same. The contracts that are hidden for the general public are the ones that were created 'for my corporation' or 'for my alliance'. Only members of the same corp/alliance can see them I believe (not 100 percent sure though, can't check as I'm in the office). Uhh. Stop looking at private contracts given and sent by your character. Their invisible to EVERYONE but the people to MAKE and RECIEVE the contracts Freighter Sales
DarknessInc Minmatar Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:58:00 - [35] Originally by: El Verbatim There are other types of 'scams' although they're harder to detect and make legit use of the contract system. An example of these are Courier missions. On the other hand, if you're lucky, you're not scammed at all so they can be avoided even after accepting the contract. Example: If someone makes a legit courier contract and you accept for a certain amount of reward and a decent collateral. You take the package and start heading out towards your destination. The creator now has the following information: He knows your destination (he set that up himself) and he knows your name. If getting from origin to destination brings you through low-sec or even worse, 0.0, there's a big risk he's waiting for you to make sure you never reach your destination. He'll destroy your ship and if lucky can even recover the item while you loose the collateral. Although these are hard to detect and to predict (cause you can pick the time yourself to make the trip so he might miss you cause he's offline), you can check up on his contract history to see if he has a lot of 'failed' courier missions. This is typically a sign that you should think twice before accepting. yea. But this is not a new thing. We have had Courier scams for a few years and are not new. That is WHY I am not including it, since it has no revelance with the issue of contracts Freighter Sales
Boyron Manook	Posted - 2007.01.20 03:45:00 - [36] The only contract scam I nearly got fooled with was the double unit scam. The scammer said that he had 2 hulks for sale in an auction. startign bid was 650 million. buyout was 1.2 billion. except for the slighly low starting bid I found this to all seem legitamite So i cancelled my buy order on the market and proceeded to start to bid. I read the contract again and it said that i would recieve a hulk. Not the 2 hulks mentioned in the description. This is where you have to be very careful. The scammer did in fact have a hulk for sale and if i had bid i would have recieved a hulk but I paid 500 million for my hulk so i would have over paid by 150 million. The contract system repeats back to you what you are recieving If that pop up window does not have all that you think you should recieve in the quanity you thing you should recieve then you are not going to recieve it and its a scam. If on the other hand it says all you want and the quantity you want you are free to accept the contract knowing you will get what is listed in the pop up window. whats listed in the description is meaningless. FYI I have seen free form contracts used in aliances and corps quite well. for example I need a really good atcive shield hardner for thermal damage. any one have a named or t2 they want to sell i can afoord XXX million. I can not see ever trusting a free form contract with the General public.
El Verbatim	Posted - 2007.01.25 12:43:00 - [37] Originally by: DarknessInc yea. But this is not a new thing. We have had Courier scams for a few years and are not new. That is WHY I am not including it, since it has no revelance with the issue of contracts True, but the new contract system does allow you to spot these easier. Because by default these contracts are public, you can check the contract history of the creator. Too many 'failed' entries? Don't touch it.... Although, I'm starting to notice more and more new alt accounts creating these type of contracts so that seems to be a new way around the contract history.
DarknessInc Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.01.25 17:01:00 - [38] Originally by: El Verbatim Originally by: DarknessInc yea. But this is not a new thing. We have had Courier scams for a few years and are not new. That is WHY I am not including it, since it has no revelance with the issue of contracts True, but the new contract system does allow you to spot these easier. Because by default these contracts are public, you can check the contract history of the creator. Too many 'failed' entries? Don't touch it.... Although, I'm starting to notice more and more new alt accounts creating these type of contracts so that seems to be a new way around the contract history. This would be the same IF they were scamming using the courier contracts. bu Freeform scammers, are required to use PRIVATE contracts, which even after you have finished with that contract, its status or end is not released to the public on the contract history. a Scammer can scam all his life using private contracts and never have a fail on his contract history
Starbucks Partner Caldari Antipodean inc. Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2007.02.09 09:05:00 - [39] The Following is a different type of scam, one that i wish was petitionable because there is not enough information on auctions, i.e. i did not know i wasn't given the option to review the final bid and agree to it. laugh at me, call me a noob, w/e just consider this a PSA, crazy bear > my corp will take buyout on your smartbomb :) Starbucks Partner > 700m? crazy bear > yes Starbucks Partner > rgr Starbucks Partner > who do i make it to? crazy bear > what ya got on my 40 Starbucks Partner > can i private it to you? crazy bear > u know the trick to make it available to claim from any regio right? Starbucks Partner > no crazy bear > ok i run u through the steps cos im running out of time Starbucks Partner > ok crazy bear > follow exactly or it wont work Starbucks Partner > rgr crazy bear > new contract - auction - private - name = what ya got on my 40 crazy bear > select item crazy bear > buyout = 700m crazy bear > starting bid = default - must be like this to access out of region crazy bear > duration = 1 day crazy bear > finish Starbucks Partner > k its done Starbucks Partner > i cant drag it... crazy bear > kk fantastic crazy bear > i have mailed the corp banker o claim it when he logs on, ok? Starbucks Partner > ok crazy bear > cya later o/ he proceeded to bid 1000 isk for my officer smartbomb, and i am left paying more than that in auction fees needless to say im ****ed, and i hope ppl learn from this
Agent Li Galactic Defence Consortium	Posted - 2007.02.09 13:50:00 - [40] I haven't done any contracts yet, because I can't understand the enforcement mechanism (or absence thereof). Suppose I take a contract to haul something from point A to point B. The contract pays 250,000 isk, on completion, but I have to put up security of 30 million isk, supposedly to cover the potential loss of what I'm hauling. So if I pick the stuff up, and undock, and the people who wrote the contract waste my ship and pod me, they make money - and pick up the stuff I was hauling (which probably isn't worth 30 million isk). Seems to me as if that sort of thing is only an invitation to be podded after being scammed.
Starbucks Partner Caldari Antipodean inc. Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2007.02.10 00:00:00 - [41] courier contracts have never been worth the risk, and are usually scams
DarknessInc Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.02.10 00:12:00 - [42] Okay boys and girls!!! I will be updating this with the New scam form. and I already know about Crazy bear. he tried to get me. When I set auction at 650M start bid and 650M buyout for my fleet tempest, he blocked me. XD
Starbucks Partner Caldari Antipodean inc. Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2007.02.10 17:34:00 - [43] what i realize about this auction is that i still have to say accept money for this auction, because its sitting in stasis right now, with a big EXPIRED sign. so basically, its not going anywhere
Soporo	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:48:00 - [44] My own hard and fast rules basically are: Dont use Freeform. If someone insists on Freeform, then he is probably a scammer. Dont use Auction. If someone insists on Private Auction, then he is probably a scammer. Use Item Exchange. Item Exchange is probably the best, and the only way youll get screwed is if you somehow make a mistake setting it up. It's pretty basic and understandable though. With item Exchange and the Market, it's all I ever need.
DarknessInc Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.02.11 04:30:00 - [45] Originally by: Soporo My own hard and fast rules basically are: Dont use Freeform. If someone insists on Freeform, then he is probably a scammer. Dont use Auction. If someone insists on Private Auction, then he is probably a scammer. Use Item Exchange. Item Exchange is probably the best, and the only way youll get screwed is if you somehow make a mistake setting it up. It's pretty basic and understandable though. With item Exchange and the Market, it's all I ever need. Item Exchange/Direct Trade are the only real secure ways of private trading. And dont ever accept a IE that has a ship with 'rigs' because for some reason they disappear when you contract the ship
Setana Manoro Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.02.13 12:42:00 - [46] A more ingenous one i found today when a char was advertising in JITA local about a Domination Warp Disruptor for 100 mil isk. Upon closer inspection the Item Exchange had a Domination Warp Scrambler and not a Domination Warp Disruptor. The char who made it is a 3 day old who advertizes in his bio to be building Battleships with BYOM deal, very trusting. Char name is Toyama Kurenai : Here's a screenshot with some details : screenshot Since the utter lack of intelligence some of the recent mass scammers are showing - which ****es me off, I will try to post screenshots of as many scammers i can find ... maybe the flavour of the week will pass. PS: To give an example, before this rash of mass scammers, out of 30 convo's 1-2 were scammers, now it's 1 out of every 2 convo's. -------------------------------------------------- Always look on the bright side of life. :)
DarknessInc Minmatar Legion of Corpses	Posted - 2007.02.13 19:41:00 - [47] Originally by: Setana Manoro Here's another "pls make a private auction for my corp as i am in 0.0 and can't claim otherwise" : screenshot Character name is PVP'er. Im thinking of making a name & shame list on this thread if I recieve GM/Mod approval. but PvP'er tried to get me. Sadly, Im the author of this thread and know how the contracts work. The moment I said private contracts are limitless and I was the author of this thread, he blocked me
Setana Manoro Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.02.13 22:01:00 - [48] I've read this section of the forum in the past few days, but so far all the ppl posting about a scammer where either considered whiners or didn't post any proof, at which point the community turned the discussion in a "finger pointing with no proof". I think to get this stickied you need to keep this thread in the informative part strictly, don't get into flame-fests. The screenshot is pretty much the only way you can prove they are trying to scam without turning into a discussion about lack of proof and finger-pointing, all the time avoiding censoring on account of "you can't post chatlogs with the names taken out". To be honest, i really didn't care much for scamming before this rash of point and click scammers. I knew of scammers that kept they're chars even after the finger-pointing and at some extent i can respect that. I cannot respect the fact that CCP gave these guys a "scamming button"; there is no social engineering involved here, there is just statistics "if one out of 20 actually bites, i'm ok". As a trader it ****es me off as it just wastes my time to no end, every other convo turning out to be a scam. -------------------------------------------------- Always look on the bright side of life. :)
DarknessInc Minmatar Legion of Corpses	Posted - 2007.02.14 17:20:00 - [49] Originally by: Setana Manoro I've read this section of the forum in the past few days, but so far all the ppl posting about a scammer where either considered whiners or didn't post any proof, at which point the community turned the discussion in a "finger pointing with no proof". I think to get this stickied you need to keep this thread in the informative part strictly, don't get into flame-fests. The screenshot is pretty much the only way you can prove they are trying to scam without turning into a discussion about lack of proof and finger-pointing, all the time avoiding censoring on account of "you can't post chatlogs with the names taken out". To be honest, i really didn't care much for scamming before this rash of point and click scammers. I knew of scammers that kept they're chars even after the finger-pointing and at some extent i can respect that. I cannot respect the fact that CCP gave these guys a "scamming button"; there is no social engineering involved here, there is just statistics "if one out of 20 actually bites, i'm ok". As a trader it ****es me off as it just wastes my time to no end, every other convo turning out to be a scam. Ture. If you could email the CCP forum moderators asking for them to stickify this thread so many more may learn from it, would be awesome. I might also ask them to clean the thread up. Im pondering adding a THIRD piece of the thread, which incompasses an Old escrow scam of putting one item in, and putting the descript as another. TS WD named TS WS. meh but its not a new scam. Its stemmed off escrow and doesnt really match with the contract scams which grew out of Kali's launch
Teinyhr Minmatar United Systems Navy	Posted - 2007.02.15 08:53:00 - [50] This needs a sticky! Having been contract scammed (my own fault though, I thought it was a scam at first but decided to trust the people asking for the auction as I knew pretty much nothing about contracts..), I must say I wouldn't have been if I had read this. :/ ------------------- Originally by: Smagd Besides, specialization is for insects.
DarknessInc Minmatar Legion of Corpses	Posted - 2007.02.15 20:19:00 - [51] Originally by: Teinyhr This needs a sticky! Having been contract scammed (my own fault though, I thought it was a scam at first but decided to trust the people asking for the auction as I knew pretty much nothing about contracts..), I must say I wouldn't have been if I had read this. :/ thankies! be sure to send a email to your local Senator...err Moderator and ask for a sticky!

Jacques Archambault Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.02.16 22:07:00 - [52] This thread has been included in the Piracy Resource thread, for victims and starting pirates . -Jacques forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website! "Remembered only as Jack"

Lord Evangelian Gallente LEAP Corp	Posted - 2007.02.17 15:15:00 - [53] Originally by: Kelron Queldine Originally by: DarknessInc But it has links to the item! Dont believe links. Lets take a imaginary scammer "Scammer McScamScam". He puts in the descript "Scammer McScamScam's Navy Issue Raven" This makes it appear as it has been assembled, but clicking on the link does not take you to "Scammer McScamScam's Navy Issue Raven". It will take you to 'Navy Issue Raven' show info. A link to a ship always shows the ship type at the top, not the ship name. The exception is if it's a link to your own ship, in which case you will see the ship name. Your wrong, if you right click a link to your ship or some one elses ship it will have the atributs and title of the ship you linked it to. Same effect if you drag and drop it into the convo window. On the contracts it is called what ever you named it as it was assembled... One day I will show you allà
DarknessInc Minmatar Legion of Corpses Federation Of united Corps	Posted - 2007.02.20 07:29:00 - [54] Originally by: Jacques Archambault This thread has been included in the Piracy Resource thread, for victims and starting pirates . -Jacques WHOOOT I GOT RECOGNITION!! FREE DRINKS FOR EVERYONE!
Sarah Lapre Caldari Stargate University	Posted - 2007.02.23 08:25:00 - [55] Originally by: DarknessInc Why, when I am selling things, people ask for auctions? Because these people are scammers, such as the confirmed Crazy Bear. The way of this scam is as such. 1. You place the auction up. They ask for default/base price on the item as start bid. SUpposidly to 'save taxs' which is totally untrue. 2. They ask for you to make the buyout the agreed price. They will NEVER pay this price. 3. If you make this contract and give it to them, they will put the minimum bid on the contract, and as it is an auction, you then cannot delete it, and since its private, no one else can. You are now screwed. Funny that I figured out this was a scam prior to reading this thread, but yeah Crazy Bear tried this **** on me and it didn't work. For refernce this is the eve-mail between us, so that people know what to look out for. -------------------- 2007.02.22 20:50 Last time I checked you are sitting in Jita. Take your lies elsewhere. 2007.02.22 20:44 (Sure enough I was right) The sleazebag is currently at Jita IV - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant station in the Jita system of the Kimotoro constellation. With regards Your local locator agent -------------------- 2007.02.22 10:42 (At this point I thought he was lying through his teeth and deciede to see if he was being honest or not.) If you are interested in selling then stick up the contract like I asked before for 1b and mail me the link so it can be claimed. My corp. is in 0.0 and cannot get to empire to claim item exchange -------------------- 2007.02.22 03:15 If your corp. is interested in buying the akemons for 1b, I will setup an item exchange to your corporation, in a system of your choice (0.5 or above) for your corp. to claim Akemon's Modified 'Noble' ZET5000 at the agreed price of 1,000,000,000 (1 Billion). If interested, contact me via eve-mail. -Sarah -------------------- 2007.02.21 10:31 Hello, my corp. is interested in purchasing your akemons for 1b. However, we need you to setup a specific contract so that we can claim it from anywhere. Fortunately this contract does not charge you any tax. If you setup the item in an auction contract specifically to my corporation with the buyout as the price but leaving the starting bid as default it will not recognize that you should be charged the max tax amount and will save a lot of isk, and will also allow me to claim the contract from any region.
Nama Saya	Posted - 2007.02.23 14:00:00 - [56] Originally by: Sarah Lapre Originally by: DarknessInc Why, when I am selling things, people ask for auctions? Because these people are scammers, such as the confirmed Crazy Bear. The way of this scam is as such. 1. You place the auction up. They ask for default/base price on the item as start bid. SUpposidly to 'save taxs' which is totally untrue. 2. They ask for you to make the buyout the agreed price. They will NEVER pay this price. 3. If you make this contract and give it to them, they will put the minimum bid on the contract, and as it is an auction, you then cannot delete it, and since its private, no one else can. You are now screwed. Funny that I figured out this was a scam prior to reading this thread, but yeah Crazy Bear tried this ** on me and it didn't work. For refernce this is the eve-mail between us, so that people know what to look out for. -------------------- 2007.02.22 20:50 Last time I checked you are sitting in Jita. Take your lies elsewhere. 2007.02.22 20:44 (Sure enough I was right) The sleazebag is currently at Jita IV - Moon 4 - Caldari Navy Assembly Plant station in the Jita system of the Kimotoro constellation. With regards Your local locator agent -------------------- 2007.02.22 10:42 (At this point I thought he was lying through his teeth and deciede to see if he was being honest or not.) If you are interested in selling then stick up the contract like I asked before for 1b and mail me the link so it can be claimed. My corp. is in 0.0 and cannot get to empire to claim item exchange -------------------- 2007.02.22 03:15 If your corp. is interested in buying the akemons for 1b, I will setup an item exchange to your corporation, in a system of your choice (0.5 or above) for your corp. to claim Akemon's Modified 'Noble' ZET5000 at the agreed price of 1,000,000,000 (1 Billion). If interested, contact me via eve-mail. -Sarah -------------------- 2007.02.21 10:31 Hello, my corp. is interested in purchasing your akemons for 1b. However, we need you to setup a specific contract so that we can claim it from anywhere. Fortunately this contract does not charge you any tax. If you setup the item in an auction contract specifically to my corporation with the buyout as the price but leaving the starting bid as default it will not recognize that you should be charged the max tax amount and will save a lot of isk, and will also allow me to claim the contract from any region. I fell for such a trick as well. Learned from it and moved on. The person who tricked me is Lucy Pew** Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe Albert Einstein
DarknessInc Minmatar Legion of Corpses Federation Of united Corps	Posted - 2007.02.23 17:10:00 - [57] Originally by: Sarah Lapre Originally by: DarknessInc bla bla bla Crazy bear tries again yea this idiot tried with me and I toyed with him, even gave him what he asked for. An auction, but with the min bid the same as the buyout!
DarknessInc Minmatar Legion of Corpses Federation Of united Corps	Posted - 2007.02.28 16:46:00 - [58] bump for Protection!
DarknessInc Minmatar Legion of Corpses Federation Of united Corps	Posted - 2007.03.19 00:51:00 - [59] UPDATED WITH NEW SCAM "Want To Buy" Scam
Greldnik Minmatar Hounds Of War Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.03.19 06:49:00 - [60] /Bumpski

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