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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.12.15 13:42:00 -
[1]
You know how capital shield boosters are NOT affected by any of the benefic effects that skills (shield compensation cap usage), modules (shield boost amplifiers) or implants (crystal set) affecting the "regular" shield boosters give ?
If you didn't, now you do.
But... does that mean perhaps they are NOT affected by the CPR shield boost amount PENALITY either ?
So, wouldn't Caldari capital (shieldboosting) ships get a huge advantage there, by just filling their lowslots to the brim with CPRs that are way better as midslot cap rechargers ?
Or is this already a common practice, but nobody bothered mentioning ?
_
My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.12.15 13:45:00 -
[2]
...misposted, was meant for Ships&Modules not for Skills, can a mod please move it there and delete this second post ?
_
My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Sir Bart
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.12.16 18:09:00 -
[3]
I would suspect that they are not taking skills / implants into account is a bug and you should report it.
As for the shield boost thingie, it's pretty easy to test.
-Bart
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Takahashi Arran
coracao ardente
Sani Khal'Vecna
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Posted - 2006.12.16 19:50:00 -
[4]
i belive capital shield boosters are simply not affected by skills. boost amps and other modules still affect them i believe.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.12.16 19:55:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Sir Bart
I would suspect that they are not taking skills / implants into account is a bug and you should report it.
As for the shield boost thingie, it's pretty easy to test.
Actually, it's not a bug, it has been stated by the devs on a few occasions that crystal implants and the other things I mentioned not affecting capital boosters was intentional design.
As for the shield boost thingie, all I'd have to do it find somebody who can use capital shield boosters and get him in a ship WITH a cap shield booster and a full lowslot set of CPRs in space to test it... know anybody who can and would be willing to ? Sadly, I don't.
_
My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
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Kaemonn
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2006.12.16 20:17:00 -
[6]
Moved to Ships and Mods from Skills.
forum rules | [email protected]| Eve-CCG
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Captain Dragotahl
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Posted - 2006.12.16 20:30:00 -
[7]
ok are you serious? Your skills dont effect the Capital modules? Thats absolutely dumn. Does anyone know why they are set up this way, cause the fact that im looking at moving up to capital ships seroiusly upsets me to say the least to find out all my sp's are for nothing. I mean whats the point?
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Kelgen Thann
SUBLIME L.L.C.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.16 20:40:00 -
[8]
I do believe Capital ship skills affect capital ship mods.
I fly a Pheonix, and Chimera.. I'm so used to not using CPR's that I've never checked. I'll check when I get home from work. Interesting to see what happens, especially with the phwonix 
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.12.16 20:51:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kelgen Thann
I do believe Capital ship skills affect capital ship mods.
I fly a Pheonix, and Chimera.. I'm so used to not using CPR's that I've never checked. I'll check when I get home from work. Interesting to see what happens, especially with the phwonix
Yep, capital shield skill is about the only skill that affects capital modules, I guess.
An I suspected most Caldari capship pilots would have had the idea "CPRs, bad" engrained in their heads so much as to probably not even think of fiting any, ever 
As for the test, I am really looking forward to the results, thanks for volunteering 
_
My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Wrayeth
Tabula Rasa Systems
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.16 21:14:00 -
[10]
Speaking from experience, cap power relays DO affect the shield boost amount of capital shield boosters. That said, two 35%+ faction boost amps offset the penalty from a full rack of CPRs quite handily.
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Might
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Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2006.12.16 21:17:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Wrayeth
Speaking from experience, cap power relays DO affect the shield boost amount of capital shield boosters. That said, two 35%+ faction boost amps offset the penalty from a full rack of CPRs quite handily.
The question is, though, whether you gain enough capacitor recharge for it to be worth it, or whether those two slots wouldn't be more effective if fitted with Cap Rechargers.
That said, the negative shield boost amount penalty from CPRs are affected by stacking penalty. After you've added the third CPR, further CPRs won't really affect your shield boost performance that much.
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EVE is sick. |
Wrayeth
Tabula Rasa Systems
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.16 21:22:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 16/12/2006 21:23:49
Originally by: Ithildin
The question is, though, whether you gain enough capacitor recharge for it to be worth it, or whether those two slots wouldn't be more effective if fitted with Cap Rechargers.
It's definitely more effective with the CPRs. I've tried a setup on my phoenix with 5 PDU IIs, 1 cap recharger II, and 1 boost amp, and the setup with 5 CPR and 2 faction boost amp boosts just as much shield per second and has MUCH more sustainability. In fact, I despaired of ever finding a usable setup for the beast that wouldn't immediately die to nos until someone clued me in on the CPR/faction boost amp trick.
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Might
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Train
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.12.16 21:27:00 -
[13]
Hmmz, boost amps were supposed to NOT affect capital shield boosters either, it might be a bug that faction ones do
_
My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Wrayeth
Tabula Rasa Systems
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.16 21:47:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Akita T
Hmmz, boost amps were supposed to NOT affect capital shield boosters either, it might be a bug that faction ones do
Incorrect. Tech 1 boost amps affect capital shield boosters. It's the shield compensation skill that's not supposed to affect them, not the boost amp module.
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
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Blind Man
Kemono.
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Posted - 2006.12.16 22:13:00 -
[15]
yes people do use it, this is from a chimera killmail (mods destroyed)
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Large Shield Transporter I
Large Shield Transporter I
Capacitor Power Relay I
Capacitor Power Relay I
Capacitor Power Relay I
Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
F-b10 Nominal Capacitor Regenerator
Sensor Booster II
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Sexorella hotz
Beasts of Burden
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.12.17 01:10:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Blind Man
yes people do use it, this is from a chimera killmail (mods destroyed)
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Large Shield Transporter I
Large Shield Transporter I
Capacitor Power Relay I
Capacitor Power Relay I
Capacitor Power Relay I
Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
F-b10 Nominal Capacitor Regenerator
Sensor Booster II
The CPR's in that setup could be for the transporters, as those are hard as hell to keep running, this could be for a lot of reasons, but most likely because this particular carrier pilot flies a more logistic role then a front line role, any chance we're ya'll seiging in this guys system? Cause he may have been trying to recharge POS's and the like.
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Lord Violent
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.17 01:49:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Blind Man
yes people do use it, this is from a chimera killmail (mods destroyed)
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Large Shield Transporter I
Large Shield Transporter I
Capacitor Power Relay I
Capacitor Power Relay I
Capacitor Power Relay I
Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
F-b10 Nominal Capacitor Regenerator
Sensor Booster II
Over 1B in boost amps and a cap recharger II was too expensive? 
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Blind Man
Kemono.
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Posted - 2006.12.17 01:52:00 -
[18]
he was actually camping a low sec gate with a few friends and the tank was insane 
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.12.17 03:14:00 -
[19]
Shield boost amps affect capital shield boosters unless someone broke it or 'fixed' it.
Crystal implant bonuses aren't suppose to work with them, not sure about skills, but I was pretty sure they worked with them too.
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Sir Bart
Vendetta Underground
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.12.20 05:47:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Sir Bart
I would suspect that they are not taking skills / implants into account is a bug and you should report it.
As for the shield boost thingie, it's pretty easy to test.
Actually, it's not a bug, it has been stated by the devs not affecting capital boosters was intentional design.
Then the bug is in the skill description. Capital shield booster is a sheild booster... the skill says it lowers the cap usage on sheild boosters... this is an error... a fault, a flaw... sometimes I call this... a bug.
-Bart
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Thor Xian
Vertigo One
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.20 06:01:00 -
[21]
This trick is also useful with ships like the Cyclone and Maelstrom.
~Thor Xian, Material Defender
"For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One."
Corp/Alliance Services |
tiller
MAFIA
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.20 07:04:00 -
[22]
Edited by: tiller on 20/12/2006 07:18:20
Hey guys
This sounds interesting as a phoenix is a easy kill with enough nos / neuts on it.
The below is with two t2 boost amps and cap shield rep in normal mode.
Filling low slots with CPRs gives me
60937 cap
868s cap recharge
70 cap per sec
234375 shield
18000 sec shield recharge
13 shield per sec passive
8513 capital shield boost
Filling with PDU II gives
77773 cap
1699s cap recharge
45 cap per sec
299128 shield
11544 sec shield recharge
25.9 shield per sec passive
11427 capital shield boost
Say a dom has 5 named neuts on you thats 125 cap every 1 sec. I think it shows that CPR setup really doesn't count for much as just this one ship exceeds your recharge rate. In 40seconds he's gonna be out of cap and robbed you of 5000. Imagine 10 guys with cap drain setups... it's gonna be game over quite quick.
I'm thinking that PDUs II + DCU II would give more survivability.
If your blobbed go straight into siege and concentrate all fire on nos/neut BS and just hope you can pop enough before you go boom....
Please excuse me if all of above is wrong, im REALLY crap at working this stuff out 
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tiller
MAFIA
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.20 08:49:00 -
[23]
Hmmm, anyone thought of a cap injector on a dread ?, with it's massive cargo space you could fit hundreds of 800s and run it constant in combat. It's not a bad idea.... maybe 
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Wrayeth
Tabula Rasa Systems
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.20 08:56:00 -
[24]
You're forgetting that the cap recharge rate works on a curve. It's actually more than twice as effective around 40% capacitor.
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Might
As well
Train
Another
Race |
tiller
MAFIA
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.20 08:58:00 -
[25]
oh ic... well, even so I don't think CPRs are gonna help if you have a few ships with NOS on you. Guess it needs testing in space.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.12.20 09:01:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Wrayeth
You're forgetting that the cap recharge rate works on a curve. It's actually more than twice as effective around 40% capacitor.
Exactly *2.5 at peak recharge somewhere close to 34% cap.
And over *2.4 in the 30-40% maxcap area.
_
My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Wrayeth
Tabula Rasa Systems
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.20 09:04:00 -
[27]
Oh, I forgot to add that named CPRs now offer more recharge than T1 CPRs, so that needs to be factored in as well.
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Might
As well
Train
Another
Race |
tiller
MAFIA
Pirate Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.20 09:08:00 -
[28]
Edited by: tiller on 20/12/2006 09:07:46
wrayeth, have you tried this kind of setup in combat aginst a anti dread blob ?
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Thor Xian
Vertigo One
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.20 09:39:00 -
[29]
I think the problem is what happens after you go below your peak recharge.
~Thor Xian, Material Defender
"For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One."
Corp/Alliance Services |
Sokratesz
Guardians of Hell's Gate
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2006.12.20 09:59:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 20/12/2006 09:59:58
Since you can fit like, 250 cap booster 800's in a dread, one large electrochemical injector will allow you alot more time to kill them off / call for help :)
We've been tinkering with the idea for an armourtanked thanathos since it can hold even more charges in its corporate hangar. Dual injector ftw!
Basilisk Fitting Link |
Wrayeth
Tabula Rasa Systems
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.20 10:18:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 20/12/2006 10:37:57
Edited by: Wrayeth on 20/12/2006 10:24:51
Edited by: Wrayeth on 20/12/2006 10:21:35
Originally by: tiller
Edited by: tiller on 20/12/2006 09:09:44
wrayeth, have you tried this kind of setup in combat against a anti dread blob ?
ANY capital ship will die to an anti-capital blob. Nos > your capacitor. It's the amount that determines the outcome, however.
A couple weeks ago, I had two domis and an apoc sucking on my cap, and was holding out well enough - I was in siege and only had to run my booster occasionally. Locking them up had the effect of getting them to de-aggro in an attempt to dock and save their ships, which worked because I was too busy shooting at their thanatos buddy to bother with them unless they kept at it. EDIT: To clarify, it was about 10 battleships/command ships and two thanatos against our group (which consisted of an equal number of battleships, our own thanatos, and my phoenix).
In any case, while CPRs may not make you immune to nos, they make you much more resistant to it; your capacitor recharge rate is on par with the armor-tanking dreads when you use them.
In regards to a cap injector, then you get down to whether you want to protect your cap or have better resists. If you're expecting to take a lot of incoming fire over a short duration (or if it's even a possibility), you'll probably want another hardener over an injector. If you expect to be nossed to hell but receive little incoming fire, use the injector.
EDIT again:
Setup to tank massive incoming fire:
3 citadel launchers
1 siege module
1 capital shield booster
2 faction boost amps
1 EM hardener
1 thermal hardener
1 kinetic hardener
1 invulnerability field
5 cap power relays
This setup tanks quite well and has excellent resists. The biggest drawback, however, is the extremely long lock time due to the lack of a sensor booster. To rectify this, you'd probably want to switch three of the hardeners for invulnerability fields (or two invulns and an EM hardener) and the fourth hardener for the sensor booster. If you wanted to add a cap injector to this, then you're faced with the decision of weakening your tank or having no sensor booster (the latter results in 60+ seconds to lock battleships).
My personal opinion is that, if you're fielding your phoenix with a proper support fleet, you shouldn't need the injector. Your gang can primary anyone who's sucking on your cap, and you can hit them with citadels as well. If you've got a huginn supporting you, you should be able to 1-volley battleships with a phoenix (or at least you could prior to the hitpoint increase).
-Wrayeth
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Might
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Train
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.12.20 10:39:00 -
[32]
Thanatos with maxed cap skills, single shield booster, full Beta-CPRs in lowslots and 3x CCC rigs can perma-boost with as much as 28 heavy NOS bearing down on it... pretty significant, if you ask me.
_
My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Liam Fremen
Gallente
Global Isk Network
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Posted - 2006.12.20 10:56:00 -
[33]
My nidhoggur armortank, and i found a nice way for "forget" about nosferatu for repping myself.
4x Heavy Electrochemical Cap Booster + 400 x 800's charges.
This give me 3200 cap every time they activate, Capital armor repair just work every 25 sec, the 4 electrochemical pump cap, click repper1, the electrochemical pump cap, click 2nd repper, another pump click 3rth repper, and keep going like this even under tremendous cap sucking :)
400 charges last 16 minutes, if you use them continuously without any second of stop, well, if you last 16 minutes it means you can fix the situation, with 10-15 fighters + 700-800 mixed drones in your hangar :)
Actually i tryed for plenty of time to let all my corporation shoting me with everything they had, about 10 bs and 10-15 support, well i was able to tank it for realy realy a long time without any problem.
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