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Terghon
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Posted - 2003.11.23 18:22:00 -
[1]
The situation in Sarum Prime has gotten way out of control. Jump-in point camping (or any kind of spawn camping) is cheap and lame to start with. Deliberately putting out cans and drones you're not using in combat to cause lag so you can kill people without risk is an exploit. I don't care that the GMs say that it isn't right now, it is. Using an out-of-game mechanic to gain an unfair in-game advantage is the very definition of an exploit.
Sarum Prime, one jump from Amarr, the homeworld of the Empire and a 1.0 system on the super-highway. Sarum Prime is in the heart of the empire, not out in the unclaimed regions and 0.0 space.
But as of this moment, there have been 43 ships destroyed and 30 pod kills there in the last 24 hours. 32 ships have been destroyed in Amarr itself.
How many people are going to quit the game because of the griefers there before something is done?
Oh... and add cowards to the title line too. When a group jumped in to fight these "pirates," they immediately fled to Amarr, a 1.0 system, where they were absolutely safe... despite having security ratings of -9 or lower.
I'll make it clear since people seem to argue about the definition of griefing and exploiting a lot. This is cheating. Cheaters should be penalized if not banned. Cheaters ruin the game for everyone. Clear enough?
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StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.11.23 18:25:00 -
[2]
Clear enough.
_______________________________________________
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Li Tai
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Posted - 2003.11.23 18:47:00 -
[3]
and Concord is not showing up?
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.23 18:54:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
and Concord is not showing up?
Sarum is < .5 space. Concord is functioning just fine. Concord is not supposed to show up there.
Terghon wrote:
Quote:
...
I don't care that the GMs say that it isn't right now, it is.
...
At which point you no longer have an argument. Someone will be along shortly to give you a cookie.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
John Blackthrone
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Posted - 2003.11.23 18:55:00 -
[5]
yea but 35 destroyed ships in Amarr??? (1.0 or? )
War Status?
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.23 18:56:00 -
[6]
"yea but 35 destroyed ships in Amarr??? (1.0 or? )
War Status?"
... The police was wrapping up usual suspects during yesterday's event; move along, nothing to see here...
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Omniwar
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Posted - 2003.11.23 19:08:00 -
[7]
So what solution do you propose for pirates instead?
They cant demand gate toll since the sentry guns will kill you.
Most pirates have negative security status and when they warp in belts the peaple they want to lock down will just warp out since they do get a warning when someone with neg sec stat is close.
It is not even possible to lock down peaple in 0.0 at gates since most use two MWD¦s when travelling.
It has been shown that when pirates do attack around gates in empire they are called exploiters since they either have one scorp tank to take the hits or stay 60+km away from the nearest sentry gun.
Not only pirates camp jump in points, everyone that activly does PvP uses that tactic, doesnt make it right or fair but it is almost the only way to attack someone who doesnt want to fight.
Seems you want all Empire space to be totally risk free, news flash, it isnt and you have to accept that until CCP does make it so for you.
When each gate will have multiple jump in points the players will adapt and again you will cry out exploit and it will take CCP few weeks/months to find a solution for it.
This game is PvP based and when Empire will be safe heaven for all the game will probably die.
Many PvP¦rs both pirates and other players will quit.
Since peaple wont loose ships (most PvP¦rs have quit) there will be no need to other players to build and sell ships/items and they will get bored, many will try the PvP aspect but they will learn that they cant since it is all nerfed, thus they will quit as well.
That would make EVE a very empty place but no one would need to quit since CCP would just close the servers, and then you have killed the best game that has been made for online playing.
*Note* I think JIP camping is lame/boring and I think it should be changed, but not until a good solution that works well for everyone not just one sideed has been found.
Solution : remove sentry guns in systems below 0.5
Note to Terghon, when you want something changed try at least to give a sample of a solution so CCP has something to work for, because if they would come with a quick change now you would probably not like it and make a post about how lame that change was.
Spawn of the Devil
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Snidd
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Posted - 2003.11.23 19:21:00 -
[8]
come 2 sarum prime. I will show u there is no camping there. Just read my can when u jump in. then u will understand 
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2003.11.23 19:47:00 -
[9]
Quote:
This game is PvP based...
No it ain't. It's a role-playing game. You want Worms, go play Worms.
Fighting other players is a means to an end - more wealth, getting to and fro some place, etc. It is NOT, and it never should be, an end in itself in a game like this. If your only purpose is to fight other people, this is the wrong game for you to be in.
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
The Reclaimer
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Posted - 2003.11.23 19:53:00 -
[10]
Quote:
Quote:
This game is PvP based...
No it ain't. It's a role-playing game. You want Worms, go play Worms.
Fighting other players is a means to an end - more wealth, getting to and fro some place, etc. It is NOT, and it never should be, an end in itself in a game like this. If your only purpose is to fight other people, this is the wrong game for you to be in.
Its exactly this carebear attitute that has thrown the game balance out already. Eve is a PVP game. The dev's have said so. You have plenty of tools at your disposal that you should use instead of posting yet another tired thread. Try the map jagoff. If there is 30+ pod kills in the last 24 hours why would you go there? You're just asking for trouble. This is not a mining simulator, I repeat NOT a mining simulator!!!!
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.23 20:03:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Quote:
This game is PvP based...
No it ain't. It's a role-playing game. You want Worms, go play Worms.
Fighting other players is a means to an end - more wealth, getting to and fro some place, etc. It is NOT, and it never should be, an end in itself in a game like this. If your only purpose is to fight other people, this is the wrong game for you to be in.
No, Baldour, the game is PvP based.
What is the primary risk factor in the game? Other players.
Where did CCP expect demand for replacement ships and modules to come from? Ship losses from PvP.
This game is PvP based and you can try to fool yourself till your eyes bleed that it's not. The game was not designed to be a Player vs Environment game. There are no complex puzzles to solve, no epic quests to complete, no NPC AI, no accessory items and no tools to enhance roleplay beyond /emote.
The majority of the problems, both actual game mechanic issues and player attitude problems, come from trying to force this game to be what it isn't: PvE. The economy has broken down because of it. The security mechanisms have been broken because of it. Even mining has been affected by it, seen in the creation of Ore Thieves.
This game has PvP as an integral part of its core. If you can't accept that, you are in the wrong game.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Hardin
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Posted - 2003.11.23 20:16:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Hardin on 23/11/2003 20:24:44
To the original poster:
Sarum Prime is regularly camped by pirates - it is a 0.4 and so they can legitimately kill you at the JIP. This has been known about for weeks. I am surprised this is news to you.
However, Sarum Prime is also regularly patrolled by a combination of loyalist Amarr Corps and other anti-pirate forces with some success i.e. The death of Tank CEO there last week and numerous other pirate poddings.
However it is not possible to provide 24hr coverage there.
It does not take many anti-pirates to make the 'campers' scuttle back to the station but it does require a bit of effort.
What I suggest is rather than moaning is get together a posse of your friends and go there and watch the pirates scuttle back to their stations...
PIE Inc (and other corps such as Deathstar International) normally spend several hours a night in Sarum Prime doing this ourselves and as a result the pirates pickings there are normally fairly sparse.
But we are not a gigantic corp and nor are the other anti-pirates... if you are really ****ed off about this then try and lend a hand instead of complaining about it...
Contact me in game if you want to chat about this....
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Kagutsuchi
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Posted - 2003.11.23 20:16:00 -
[13]
Eve IS a PvP based game. This means you could Potentially!!! die anywhere, even 1.0 space....
Pirating is as viable a player pursuit as mining or mission running. Players should be aware of the risk from pirates and other players that seek to kill you. That IS the nature of EVE!!
However, there is a big diffrence between complaining about "Carebears" or whatever, who want the game to be uber easy or completely risk free, and those players who complain about people using exploits and/or poor game mechanics and design to get an unfair, non-RP advantage. Pirates are fine, if not vital to eve's success, CCP should make it a little easier for them, to play as proper pirates, hunting and catching lone ships and players. However, players that use exploits like the one in this thread are not engaging in piracy, but cheating (although pirates do atm, have little alternative, hence why i dont think they should be penalised).
But when players stand up and complain about this sort of problem, I tend to agree with them. The only solution atm is in CCP's hands and I hope they bring it to Tranq soon!!!!
Pirates arent a problem, or greifers. Just having a hard time playing thier role. People who complain that they have just been podded by some ebil git, well they are a problem.... and perhaps lacking a bit o sense.. But players who complain of being ganked the way described above are completely correct to be annoyed!!
A freind by your side is like an army at your back. |
cold lazarus
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Posted - 2003.11.23 20:25:00 -
[14]
Sarum Prime is a well known hot spot for pirates they will gather at the JIP and kill any foolish enough to go in.... many times have we at PIE and others chased these pirates away running battles are still ongoing and will continue to do so.... they are not greivers they are playes who have a style of play just like us at PIE we ge called care bears because we will protect the inocent from being ganked at the JIP...now here's the tale... we at PIE have amassed 10 battleships at the sarum gate we KNOW pirates are on the other side we are waiting for some support cruisers to join us. indies from all corps approach the gate do they ask "hey what ya doin there??", no they jump through the gate into sertain death. people can only be protected from pirates not their own stupidity. there are simple things to do things to look at before jumping into a rat infested system. the pirates i have faced in sarum not one has been a greiver or whiner they took their losses like they should. pay attention and enjoy the game
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Phoenus
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Posted - 2003.11.23 21:30:00 -
[15]
PVP is an essentail element to this game, everybody should be able to understand this fact.
Without PVP, ship demand would be lower, as would demand on minerals etc.
The pirates whom camp Sarum frequently include Tank CEO, Billy Bob, Bloody Hands & Biomass. However, they do not retreat through Amarr, choosing instead to head through Hama (which is another neighbouring >0.5 system).
If you don't like pirates, then go learn how to PVP, and become an integral part of a group of players whom regularly clear pirate hotspots.
Regular anti-pirate patrols include PIE, of whom do a fantastic job keeping Sarum clear when there are hostile forces present.
Phoenus
Enlightened Incorporated |
Galk
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Posted - 2003.11.23 21:49:00 -
[16]
Quote:
People who complain that they have just been podded by some ebil git, well they are a problem....
Problem is, everybody has there own set of ideals.
CCP have the own set of blissfull ignorance, the true roleplayers have there own set of ideals and want to see pvp. Then there's the nasty brigade that hide behind the pvp issue to get there jollies ****ing people off.
While other online organisations, be it FPS gaming services, admins, or indeed mmorpg dev teams have realised the mix of the above doesn't quite work out if you leave them to there own devices, ccp sadly havn't realy grasped it still, despite having to take action in the past to overcome there lack of vision. Despite it has to be said, an extensive beta programme, where many players iv'e seen writen in this forum were expressing there concerns over the lack of player protection.
So it seems it little wonder why the game has been chewed about so much, and we have had a culture of hate develop within the community.
The sole responsibilty of this remains at CCP's door in my opinion.
CCP need to realise they must strike a balance.
Ohh and ban words like...
'carebear'
'greifer'
Ect... from the forum, it's only then can you go forward.
Open your eyes, stop the name calling, stop the hate, go forward.
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Little wonder why people were, what this person was telling my friends: http://galk.50megs.com/logs/ |
Shifar
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Posted - 2003.11.23 21:56:00 -
[17]
You're never going to satify everyone, the regular player wants to be safe, the pirates want to be able to do what they do best, kill.
I can't think of a solution that will keep everyone happy though perhaps a few tweeks would improve things. For example, in all fairness a pirate with a -9 rating shouldn't be able to enter Empire space and something should be done to keep them out. It's been said before, a wanted criminal can't walk freely while the police knowingly do nothing just because he hasn't commited a crime while they have been watching. If your security level is below a certain point then the jump gate should simply deny you access.
Or perhaps a reworking of the system security levels. Looking at the map I see low sec systems in the heart of civilised space. Only the outer regions should have a low security level while the inner systems (the majority of Empire space) should be 0.6 and above.
Before anyone shouts at me, remember I'm a lady. |
Captain Lugnut
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Posted - 2003.11.23 22:02:00 -
[18]
Quote:
So what solution do you propose for pirates instead?
They cant demand gate toll since the sentry guns will kill you.
Most pirates have negative security status and when they warp in belts the peaple they want to lock down will just warp out since they do get a warning when someone with neg sec stat is close.
It is not even possible to lock down peaple in 0.0 at gates since most use two MWD¦s when travelling.
It has been shown that when pirates do attack around gates in empire they are called exploiters since they either have one scorp tank to take the hits or stay 60+km away from the nearest sentry gun.
Not only pirates camp jump in points, everyone that activly does PvP uses that tactic, doesnt make it right or fair but it is almost the only way to attack someone who doesnt want to fight.
Seems you want all Empire space to be totally risk free, news flash, it isnt and you have to accept that until CCP does make it so for you.
When each gate will have multiple jump in points the players will adapt and again you will cry out exploit and it will take CCP few weeks/months to find a solution for it.
This game is PvP based and when Empire will be safe heaven for all the game will probably die.
Many PvP¦rs both pirates and other players will quit.
Since peaple wont loose ships (most PvP¦rs have quit) there will be no need to other players to build and sell ships/items and they will get bored, many will try the PvP aspect but they will learn that they cant since it is all nerfed, thus they will quit as well.
That would make EVE a very empty place but no one would need to quit since CCP would just close the servers, and then you have killed the best game that has been made for online playing.
*Note* I think JIP camping is lame/boring and I think it should be changed, but not until a good solution that works well for everyone not just one sideed has been found.
Solution : remove sentry guns in systems below 0.5
Note to Terghon, when you want something changed try at least to give a sample of a solution so CCP has something to work for, because if they would come with a quick change now you would probably not like it and make a post about how lame that change was.
sorry but the game only had an as[ect of pvp that was to be seen when corps went to war, pirates were to operate in non-empire space. Look at the box, no where does it say the game is ONLY PVP.
CCP needs to wake the **** up and stop kissing the asses of the griefers and exploit users.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.11.23 22:18:00 -
[19]
My only problem with the Sarum-Prime JIP-camping is its proximity to a starter system and the number of inexperienced players likely to travel through it.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
cold lazarus
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Posted - 2003.11.23 22:29:00 -
[20]
if you dont want interaction stop playing mmorpg's go back to stand alone games. if you wand it all handed to you on a plate do the same. stop crying because you cant play a game better than other people. read the box b4 buying games EVE is a universe where this stuff CAN and WILL happen wether you want it or not .
CCP have provided non pvp's with safe space so why the hell are they crying when the get shot leaving ther safe place to go looking for more excitement ?? STAY IN safe space if you donty want to get shot. heyy you even get a nice warning if you jumpm into a system telling you its a bad place but i bet half of the criers disabled that the first time it popped up
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Shylan
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Posted - 2003.11.23 22:35:00 -
[21]
Yes pirates camp out the JIP in Sarum Prime but they are cleared out most of the time by a loyalist group of corps dedicated to pirate hunting, these include PIE Inc, EVE Marshalls and Deathstar International. We do our best to clear out the pirates but they keep coming back all the time because when we show up they flee to the stations. If you dont want to risk getting owned in Sarum Prime then I suggest you find another route avoiding Sarum Prime.
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Eayon
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Posted - 2003.11.23 22:40:00 -
[22]
Quote:
stop crying because you cant play a game better than other people
So you define sitting at a JIP waiting to gank people 'playing the game better'?
________________________________
"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell |
cold lazarus
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Posted - 2003.11.23 22:51:00 -
[23]
Edited by: cold lazarus on 23/11/2003 22:53:45
Quote:
So you define sitting at a JIP waiting to gank people 'playing the game better'?
yes i do its a valid tactic that pirates have been forced into because crying care bears got guns put on all gates in empire space ( good going btw)
what you going to ask next ? is shooting your uber guns you have trained your skillz to do maximum damage "playing the game better"
i camp JIPs because i know its where the pirates jump into a system and i will stand a better chance of getting them ( they dont b.i.t.c.h that i killed them they get on with it because they know the risk they take jumping into the system i also camp stations for known pirates in the hope they come out and they do. and most dont b.i.t.c.h when they get shot either.
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The Reclaimer
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Posted - 2003.11.23 22:51:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Quote:
stop crying because you cant play a game better than other people
So you define sitting at a JIP waiting to gank people 'playing the game better'?
Cant you read a f*cking map? Its idiots like you that keep the pirates coming back.
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Eayon
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Posted - 2003.11.23 22:55:00 -
[25]
Quote:
Cant you read a f*cking map?
Yes I can read a f*cking map. Can you read f*cking posts? Where did I mention it was me falling victim to said JIP campers. That's right I didn't, I was responding to the main topic of the thread.
Knob jockey
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"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell |
The Reclaimer
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Posted - 2003.11.23 23:00:00 -
[26]
Quote:
Quote:
Cant you read a f*cking map?
Yes I can read a f*cking map. Can you read f*cking posts? Where did I mention it was me falling victim to said JIP campers. That's right I didn't, I was responding to the main topic of the thread.
Knob jockey
Dont cry baby. Its carebears like you taht forced pirates into JIP camping by having sentry guns at all gates. Stick to 1.0, you're better off there strip mining in an apoc for hours on end.
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Captain Lugnut
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Posted - 2003.11.23 23:02:00 -
[27]
Quote:
Edited by: cold lazarus on 23/11/2003 22:53:45
Quote:
So you define sitting at a JIP waiting to gank people 'playing the game better'?
yes i do its a valid tactic that pirates have been forced into because crying care bears got guns put on all gates in empire space ( good going btw)
what you going to ask next ? is shooting your uber guns you have trained your skillz to do maximum damage "playing the game better"
i camp JIPs because i know its where the pirates jump into a system and i will stand a better chance of getting them ( they dont b.i.t.c.h that i killed them they get on with it because they know the risk they take jumping into the system i also camp stations for known pirates in the hope they come out and they do. and most dont b.i.t.c.h when they get shot either.
one problem is,it is empire space, and the police SHOULD arrive sooner or later....
ANother problem with the players, slime and scum will exploit any flaw in a games mechanics to ruin the game for others, and then there are those like your self, with out a ******* clue as to what is the difference between right and wrong...
If the game is ****ing you off, use that unsubscribe button, and send CCP an email telling them why you are quiting the game
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cold lazarus
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Posted - 2003.11.23 23:05:00 -
[28]
and the reclaimer is right
like i said 10 battle ships sitting at a gate to a know JIP hot spot and people will still flt past us to jump into sarum are they AFK then it serves them right, are they just not paying attention it serves them right. and while people are like that pirates will camp JIPs of choke points to earn isk because people will not... check local, check their maps, check with other corps, they think they are some sort god moded pilot who cant be touched.
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Eayon
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Posted - 2003.11.23 23:06:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Dont cry baby. Its carebears like you taht forced pirates into JIP camping by having sentry guns at all gates. Stick to 1.0, you're better off there strip mining in an apoc for hours on end
Well considering that was done before I started playing Eve I seriously doubt I had anything to do with it.
________________________________
"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell |
The Reclaimer
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Posted - 2003.11.23 23:07:00 -
[30]
OMG, cant you read? Empire space with a sec lvl of >5.0 has NO Concorde. What part of this dont you understand?
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