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EVEMon, the future of it worries me.

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General Delicious	Posted - 2006.12.17 09:04:00 - [1] I just wanna say I am fairly new to this game and EVEMon has helped me a whole lot, so I'm not saying anything bad about it. So...I heard a rumour that they could make another version or another program that could train skills directly from the program. And it gets me thinking what is stopping them from making a program that automatically trains a list of skills with you ever having to touch it? I feel if something like this happened it has the potential to ruin the balance of the game, normal players would be left in the dust by these people with tons of characters they can use at will and they never had to even train their characters? Is it true that such a program could be made or would CCP be able to stop it?
Apocryphai Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.17 09:05:00 - [2] Can't and won't be done. CCP only allow skill training to happen from within the game client, no other way, and they've been very clear in saying that's the way it's going to stay. Any 3rd party app that worked out a way to automatically change skills for you would quickly end up getting your account permabanned. Worry not.
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2006.12.17 09:09:00 - [3] Originally by: Apocryphai Can't and won't be done. CCP only allow skill training to happen from within the game client, no other way, and they've been very clear in saying that's the way it's going to stay. Any 3rd party app that worked out a way to automatically change skills for you would quickly end up getting your account permabanned. Worry not. What the skull-chick said. However. CCP does have plans for a PDA client that would allow you to do simple things like browse the market, access chat channels and manage your skills. In other words, everything to get us even more addicted. Originally by: Diana Marc Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.
Brutor Shaun Minmatar Freelancers UK Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.17 11:13:00 - [4] Edited by: Brutor Shaun on 17/12/2006 11:15:33 While I wouldn't want to see an automated skill training system, I am in favour of dual skill training, to get rid of my every increasing pile of 'couple of hours to go' skills. Would also be nice if CCP would release a mini client that allowed a quicker log in and only gave access to skills. Could sit on my USB stick and plug in anywhere without the need to run the full client just to change skills. Edit - Just in case any n00bs are wonering what EveMon is:- Linkage
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2006.12.17 11:15:00 - [5] General, unless CCP adds support for web-based skill changes, any such described version of EVEMon would breach EULA and be an illegal tool. In fact, it might be an illegal tool even if CCP DO release such web-based features. - EVE is sick.
Nate D Naughty Ambitious Temptatious Endeavours	Posted - 2006.12.17 11:23:00 - [6] You know... on one hand... I'd hate people to just buy an account and train an alt without ever stepping foot into the game... on the other hand... when I'm a million miles away from my computer... and only have access to a computer through a library or something... it'd be nice to have either a super light USB client or a web interface to change skills and whatnot... though I don't care too much cause I don't mind having all my lvl 5 skills... -NÖ --- Voice Comms are Coming ...SoonÖ [Click]
Lokyi	Posted - 2006.12.17 11:28:00 - [7] I just think it's *** that I have to work stuff out as I can't change skills while I'm at work or anything, so say I'm playing until 11pm but I have a skill that's only gonna take 8 hours I either have to wait till after work the next day to start it off and in the meantime find some other skill to tide me over till then or train it and loose a few hours till I can get home to put another one on.
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2006.12.17 11:31:00 - [8] Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 17/12/2006 11:30:57 If you take comfort in the thought that its quite a bit of hassle and pain, you surely wont mind that its pretty much feasible to train 10 accounts at the same time without doing much besides buying all the skills 10 times with one of them. Lots of people do it, and leave the normal players in the dust. But they suffer (a bit) so its all right.
BurnHard	Posted - 2006.12.17 11:36:00 - [9] Edited by: BurnHard on 17/12/2006 11:36:51 It's all about skill management my friends and that is why my alt now has Amarr Carrier 5 . Edit: (I am my alt, sometimes I forget). I love the new drone skills, because they are giving me lots of quickies for downtimes at the moment and the gunnery skills are good for overnighters . Anyway, when Eve was first released, there was something of an SP race, with people setting their alarms for 4am so they could log in and change. How crazy is that? I wouldn't worry about losing a few hours training every now and then. In the grand scheme of things, it won't make a huge difference to your character progression.
Da Death Minmatar Relentless Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.17 12:36:00 - [10] Originally by: Nate D You know... on one hand... I'd hate people to just buy an account and train an alt without ever stepping foot into the game... on the other hand... when I'm a million miles away from my computer... and only have access to a computer through a library or something... it'd be nice to have either a super light USB client or a web interface to change skills and whatnot... I agree. S@#^$%te link broken -(&#$%* All generalizations are dangerous, even this one.
Apocryphai Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.18 09:31:00 - [11] Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said. "the skull-chick" haha I feel a sig coming on... Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
Noriath	Posted - 2006.12.18 09:42:00 - [12] theoretically there could be a bot that logs into the game and swiches skills at certain times, but seriously, that would be wasted effort, everyone who has half a brain just stacks the skills in a way that they will finish when they are online, and swich to a long skill whenever they don't know when they will be back...
Apocryphai Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.18 09:56:00 - [13] Originally by: Noriath theoretically there could be a bot that logs into the game and swiches skills at certain times, but seriously, that would be wasted effort, everyone who has half a brain just stacks the skills in a way that they will finish when they are online, and swich to a long skill whenever they don't know when they will be back... That does get tricky sometimes with 3 accounts.... I (and many others I'm sure) would love a system that allowed you to queue a 2nd skill to continue (at a reduced training rate maybe?) once your existing skill finished. That would also greatly reduce the pain of patches and downtimes extending long beyond their expected time, as happens occasionally. Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
Miss Mickey	Posted - 2006.12.18 10:01:00 - [14] Originally by: Noriath theoretically there could be a bot that logs into the game and swiches skills at certain times, but seriously, that would be wasted effort, everyone who has half a brain just stacks the skills in a way that they will finish when they are online, and swich to a long skill whenever they don't know when they will be back... yay, i have half a brain...
Jhonny Silvers	Posted - 2006.12.18 10:20:00 - [15] Ok, It would be nice to have a light usb fiting application that would allow you to chance skill training and even queue trainings. But what would be even more cool would be: - a PDA app that could do all this. - would have access to eve ingame chat. - even to markets. make buy/sell orders. Trade your stuff. And this would just be nice to have on all sorts of portable platforms like symbian or Windows Mobile. You could have it in your cellphone. Chat, trade and train from your mobile. Then we would have a conversation about how it would enable all sorts of automated stuff that people would start to train like 10 accounts and then sell them on e-bay. I say let them. Thay can't make the the accounts learn faster. And Its not that hard to make a makro that changes your training with the eve-client.
Kaiu Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2006.12.18 10:41:00 - [16] Why does everyone keep refering to USB clients as light? Now that EVE runs on Linux build, im sure some clever gopher could whack together a bootable USB Linux OS with EVE client It would easily fit on USB drives considering you can get like 5gb ones now really cheap... no? ____________________ MOGarmy

kieron	Posted - 2006.12.18 20:50:00 - [17] We have been in contact with the team developing EVEMon for quite some time. They are not going to develop a version or client that will automatically log into EVE and change skills. The use of a program that automates the skill training process is a EULA violation and will result in a a permanent game ban if a user is discovered using a program of this nature. While I cannot go into specifics, I can say CCP does have the ability to determine if someone is using a program of this nature. EVE Online is a game and we want players to actually log-in and play the game. We do have a WinMobile 5 based client in development that will allow a user to change skills, look at character stats, interface with the market and read EVE mail. kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.18 21:00:00 - [18] "I feel if something like this happened it has the potential to ruin the balance of the game, normal players would be left in the dust by these people with tons of characters they can use at will and they never had to even train their characters? Is it true that such a program could be made or would CCP be able to stop it?" It doesn't matter if you set the skill for training manually or some program does it for you, since the training time itself is controlled by the game server and takes the exact same amount for everyone. In this sense you can't be ever "left in the dust" as long as you keep eye on your skills and switch to new ones when current is finished. It's also not possible to get automatically "ton of characters" in time it would take you to train just your one -- each character needs to spend that predefined server-controlled time on training their skills. There is option to train multiple characters at the same time, but this requires the person to have multiple game accounts and has nothing to do with automatic skill switcher. It's also something that's available to you as long as you are willing to pay for multiple account subscriptions like such person would. In simpler terms, nothing to worry about.
Imode Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.18 21:09:00 - [19] Originally by: kieron We have been in contact with the team developing EVEMon for quite some time. They are not going to develop a version or client that will automatically log into EVE and change skills. The use of a program that automates the skill training process is a EULA violation and will result in a a permanent game ban if a user is discovered using a program of this nature. While I cannot go into specifics, I can say CCP does have the ability to determine if someone is using a program of this nature. EVE Online is a game and we want players to actually log-in and play the game. We do have a WinMobile 5 based client in development that will allow a user to change skills, look at character stats, interface with the market and read EVE mail. Is there a chance to get an EVE-Lite kind of thing for lesser powered PC's where one can access all the chat windows and interface screens without the fancy 3-d graphics (and not on a mobile)? ____________________________ my sig
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2006.12.18 21:09:00 - [20] Is it me or were you away from the forums for some time, j0? Originally by: Diana Marc Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.
Alexander Knott Starlancers	Posted - 2006.12.18 21:26:00 - [21] Originally by: kieron EVE Online is a game and we want players to actually log-in and play the game. We do have a WinMobile 5 based client in development that will allow a user to change skills, look at character stats, interface with the market and read EVE mail. Previous posts have stated that the mobile client is on indefinite hold. Has development of this client resumed? Has any work been done on the "backup skill" idea posted in the Drawing board area? Changing skills can be quite troublesome, especially for newer players whose skills complete more quickly. ----- "I like to loot, especially going to the can of the battleship, sometimes there is a surprise inside, sometimes there is only carp..."
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.18 21:44:00 - [22] Edited by: j0sephine on 18/12/2006 21:44:11 "Is it me or were you away from the forums for some time, j0?" I left forum keys in my Crow and poor thing got towed away for overdue parking and speeding tickets... took a while to sort that one out ..
Zeknichov Amarr Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.18 21:51:00 - [23] And what's wrong with automated skill training? It's still the same amount of time... or does it require some kind of skill to manage skills? Seriously I have no idea how automated skill training could be anything but a benefit to everyone.
Anders Chydenius Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2006.12.18 22:23:00 - [24] For those that don't know, I'm Anders, and I'm currently the team leader for EVEMon (all together: hi Anders). I think the OP saw a post some time ago on the EVEMon forums where I said that, given enough time, I could probably write a client to log in and do exactly what everyone fears. Given enough time and a little insight, there are tens of thousands of people that could. But, like Kieron said, they can detect it, and we're not doing it, ever. It's against the EULA and every other argument for or against the point is moot. Mootness aside, it would be a pretty heinous programming job, and we have our hands full with EVEMon, trust me :) And yeah, we talk to the guys at CCP every time they disable EVEMon for more than about 3 consecutive seconds, I like to think there's a good working relationship there. So good that, once the eveMobile client comes out, we might get some information about the hooks it's using into Eve proper. If people can do it on a fancy shmancy mobile device, why not let them do it anywhere? Even if CCP can't go so far as automating or sharing that information with a third party (and I can certainly understand why not), I'd love to see the mobile client features made available in a stand-alone "usb compatible" format. If it's written for the .NET compact framework, it should be pretty easy to re-target it for the .NET big boy framework. ------ {o,o} I play rock. (__(\| Rock rules, L2Play. -"-"- ps Paper is overpowered, nerf paper. EVEMon - The open source Jamai
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.18 23:20:00 - [25] Originally by: kieron We do have a WinMobile 5 based client in development that will allow a user to change skills, look at character stats, interface with the market and read EVE mail. When I read that, I read it as "Win Mobile", as in "Victorious Automobile" -----------------------------------------------
Ozzie Asrail FATAL REVELATIONS	Posted - 2006.12.18 23:23:00 - [26] It really dosn't make any difference whether EVEMon or the player themselves logs in and changes skills. I can 100% understand why CCP wouldn't want it to happen due to the fact that it would blur the macro\helper program line way too much and give too much info to 3rd parties would open up too many way to explioit the systems. I have a 3rd account that only gets used as a hauler alt at he moment, I may use her for PvP in a few months since she's turning out pretty sexy or my sell her. 90% of time she spends docked with +3 jsut logging in to train. -----
Pinpisa Jormao	Posted - 2006.12.18 23:44:00 - [27] While it'd be trivial to make a detectable skill changer, it would be moderately difficult to make undetectable one but far from impossible. I'd venture to say you don't even need to write a driver to make undetectable one. But I don't believe it's worth the effort given it's so much easier to do forum posts suggesting things like the ability to queue atleast 8 hours worth of skills or even just two skills. Enough customer demand (cries) and it'll happen. What I'd like to see? Since EVE supports 3 characters in the account, how about "ALT-TAB" style semi-instant switching between them and ability to get messages and chat windows of all the alt chars at once without relogging? Since we have this ability already with characters in different accounts, might as well add it to characters in the same account.
Tareen Kashaar eXin Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.19 04:31:00 - [28] Originally by: kieron We do have a WinMobile 5 based client in development that will allow a user to change skills, look at character stats, interface with the market and read EVE mail. Will it run on regular PCs too? Because there are these certain times, like the upcoming holiday, when I'm nowhere near a computer that would be able to run the game... a no-graphics minimal mobile client would be awesome for that :) Like someone above said, just put it on a usb stick and carry it around to work, to parents... does the puppy dog eyes --- WTS: Forum Signatures, 30mil a piece. Evemail me!
Jhonny Silvers	Posted - 2006.12.19 06:30:00 - [29] Originally by: kieron EVE Online is a game and we want players to actually log-in and play the game. We do have a WinMobile 5 based client in development that will allow a user to change skills, look at character stats, interface with the market and read EVE mail. Win Mobile based only? Could it be made for Symbian at the same time to work in Nokia phones too? Or maby Java ME so it could work in almost all mobile platforms?
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.20 06:24:00 - [30] Originally by: kieron We have been in contact with the team developing EVEMon for quite some time. They are not going to develop a version or client that will automatically log into EVE and change skills. The use of a program that automates the skill training process is a EULA violation and will result in a a permanent game ban if a user is discovered using a program of this nature. While I cannot go into specifics, I can say CCP does have the ability to determine if someone is using a program of this nature. EVE Online is a game and we want players to actually log-in and play the game. We do have a WinMobile 5 based client in development that will allow a user to change skills, look at character stats, interface with the market and read EVE mail. OK... not that I agree with the last statement because people don't play the game to train skills, they play the game in order to play it with friends. Having said that is there ever any chance of automating or semi-automating the skill training so any skill that requires less than 24 hours to complete automatically continues with training the skill after that? Just that would immensly help with the increadibly boring thing in EVE that is known as skill training. Honestly... training lvl 1-4 on skills is starting to really ** me off to the point where I place POS spamming more fun than training 1-4 on skills. How sad is that? OK... not a very hard question. It's very sad indeed. So pls fix kthx?!:( "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: Sama**

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