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Groon Sheysen
NEMESIS INCORPORATED NEMESIS INC UNITED
0
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Posted - 2015.09.12 02:40:20 -
[1] - Quote
Can we please arm freighters? They are ginormous ships which regularly hauls cargo worth billions yet it is completely defenseless. Why isn't it armed? Why can't it fit any defensive gear? Why can't it carry a few drones? It makes zero sense. Not saying it should be loaded up to take on a fleet of ships but it should be able to be tanked and light to medium weapons to deal with frigs and maybe a couple cruisers. Merchant ships in the real world were armed during war and the reason they aren't armed to is mainly due to insurance issues. I've just been thinking about this the past few days as I have been moving crap in my 2 freighters 32 jumps out. If a freighter is considered a ship then we should be able to fit it to some degree. Hell, we can fit haulers and transport ships... |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
1014
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Posted - 2015.09.12 03:07:01 -
[2] - Quote
My freighter is armed.
Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.
I invented Tiericide
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Groon Sheysen
NEMESIS INCORPORATED NEMESIS INC UNITED
0
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Posted - 2015.09.12 03:12:37 -
[3] - Quote
With what exactly...? |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
4639
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Posted - 2015.09.12 05:44:33 -
[4] - Quote
Groon Sheysen wrote:With what exactly...? Probably a few battleships.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Groon Sheysen
NEMESIS INCORPORATED NEMESIS INC UNITED
0
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Posted - 2015.09.12 06:41:13 -
[5] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Groon Sheysen wrote:With what exactly...? Probably a few battleships.
So in other words it's defenseless... I just think it's pretty ridiculous to have a "ship" you you can't fit anything on which is used to haul billions in isk. If they let you fit a transport and a hauler they should give you SOME slots on a freighter. Even if they are just mids and lows. |
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
4639
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Posted - 2015.09.12 06:59:17 -
[6] - Quote
Groon Sheysen wrote:So in other words it's defenseless... I just think it's pretty ridiculous to have a "ship" you you can't fit anything on which is used to haul billions in isk. If they let you fit a transport and a hauler they should give you SOME slots on a freighter. Even if they are just mids and lows. Yes. The idea of Armed Merchant Cruisers has been floated around more than a few times but never seems to get any traction. Freighters were going to receive rig slots as an upgrade, but received low slots and more fitting instead. I agree that a few mid slots and more fitting (CPU, power grid) would give some interesting options. The biggest threat to freighters seems to be from getting bumped off gate, so I'm not sure having the ability to arm them would be any deterrent to waves of cheap gank ships. Nor would there seem to be much point in an armed escort, since the only valuable ships seem to be interceptors to scout and web freighters into insta-warp.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
13880
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Posted - 2015.09.12 07:40:14 -
[7] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Groon Sheysen wrote:With what exactly...? Probably a few battleships. You mean... MMO?!?
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Titus Heldane
Sleeper Insanity Wrong Hole.
21
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Posted - 2015.09.12 09:45:12 -
[8] - Quote
while armed haulers sound nice, cloaky ones will always be a lot safer. i cant imagine anyone whod prefer a pvp ship to haul all their shiny stuff in. it-¦d probably only be used as bait with a hold full of cap boosters and quadruple reps or something ridiculous like that. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
8498
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Posted - 2015.09.12 11:33:42 -
[9] - Quote
The reason they're defenceless is to encourage you to...make friends, so that they can escort you.
[b]----
CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
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Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining Void..
34
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Posted - 2015.09.13 00:08:11 -
[10] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:The reason they're defenceless is to encourage you to...make friends, so that they can escort you.
I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I'd imagine they're defenseless to make you have to choose, be able to defend yourself, or haul a crap ton of stuff. Having friends to escort you is useless. Remind me again what an escort could do against a fleet of suicide ships? Maybe jam them, but not much else.
And ever try and get someone to regularly escort you and/or guard say a mining fleet? It's boring as hell, so no one is going to do it more than once.
I don't really think freighters need to be armed, yes a bit more fitting options would be nice, but eh. But claiming "make friends" is completely erroneous. |
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Vibiana
Frontier Trading Company
28
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Posted - 2015.09.13 04:54:49 -
[11] - Quote
Only thing that can save freighter is cloak+mwd and dc2 Anything else is gank encouragement by CCP.
Like recent "buff", when they nerfed 3 stats and gave us "choice" of plugging one hole of 3. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
8504
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Posted - 2015.09.13 13:18:51 -
[12] - Quote
Sheeth Athonille wrote:Bumblefck wrote:The reason they're defenceless is to encourage you to...make friends, so that they can escort you. I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I'd imagine they're defenseless to make you have to choose, be able to defend yourself, or haul a crap ton of stuff. Having friends to escort you is useless. Remind me again what an escort could do against a fleet of suicide ships? Maybe jam them, but not much else. And ever try and get someone to regularly escort you and/or guard say a mining fleet? It's boring as hell, so no one is going to do it more than once. I don't really think freighters need to be armed, yes a bit more fitting options would be nice, but eh. But claiming "make friends" is completely erroneous.
So, you basically say "No, you're wrong" and don't suggest any firm suggestions. That's real good thinking there, buddy.
[b]----
CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
608
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Posted - 2015.09.13 15:55:11 -
[13] - Quote
Your buddies are your guns.
Honestly, this is like asking why Exhumers can't carry bomb launchers or pods and shuttles can't point and web. In fact, tackling shuttles make better sense.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining Void..
34
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Posted - 2015.09.13 18:29:37 -
[14] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Sheeth Athonille wrote:Bumblefck wrote:The reason they're defenceless is to encourage you to...make friends, so that they can escort you. I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I'd imagine they're defenseless to make you have to choose, be able to defend yourself, or haul a crap ton of stuff. Having friends to escort you is useless. Remind me again what an escort could do against a fleet of suicide ships? Maybe jam them, but not much else. And ever try and get someone to regularly escort you and/or guard say a mining fleet? It's boring as hell, so no one is going to do it more than once. I don't really think freighters need to be armed, yes a bit more fitting options would be nice, but eh. But claiming "make friends" is completely erroneous. So, you basically say "No, you're wrong" and don't suggest any firm suggestions. That's real good thinking there, buddy.
Dawh, thank you, I thought it was only simple thinking, but thanks for the compliment
And yes, you are wrong. Having friends is not a valid suggestion. I don't think there are any major problems with freighters as they are (maybe some mechanics with ganking, but not with freighters themselves), so no, I don't have any firm suggestions.
Thanks again for the compliment, buddy |
Mag's
the united
20196
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Posted - 2015.09.13 18:57:31 -
[15] - Quote
Sheeth Athonille wrote:Remind me again what an escort could do against a fleet of suicide ships? Mine stop me from even being attacked, let alone protect me if something ridiculous like getting bumped should happen.
But then I do play the game as an MMO and not some single player theme park. Which helps.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
511
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Posted - 2015.09.13 21:28:18 -
[16] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:The reason they're defenceless is to encourage you to...make friends, so that they can escort you.
This and all the others like it just kill me. While it may be true from a technical perspective do you really think it is a viable option?
So let us examine the life of a convoy guard in high sec.
Countless hours spent flying from here to there watching the paint dry on the hull of a giant whale of a ship.
And then one day it does happen the freighter you are guarding is attacked by gankers so you rush in to kill said gankers.
And about the time you manage to start to kill some of them you explode in that blinding flash of light that signals the arrival of Concord on the scene and when it clears.
You find yourself in your pod floating amid the wreckage of what used to be the ship you were flying as well as those of the gankers AND the freighter you were supposed to protect.
Yea I can just see the thousands upon thousands of players that would sign up for that job when there are other more fun and more lucrative things they could be spending their time on.
As I said it is all good in theroy but in the practical world of high sec aggression mechanics there is no effective way to guard a ship against gankers with guns / missiles unless the guns / missiles are on the ship being attacked.
As I state over and over, I am OK with ganking and I agree that there are many ways to avoid becoming a gank target and to escape from a situation but please stop with this lie about how you should just bring friends with guns / missiles. |
Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
220
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Posted - 2015.09.14 03:36:48 -
[17] - Quote
I think all current game mechanics and ship setups are fine right now, but I completely understand the frustration of freighter pilots. The mantra of this game is "trust no-one, everyone is out to get you", isn't it? "Everyone Verses Everyone", right? So it seems completely lopsided that this game tells you that relying on anyone but yourself is a tactical mistake, but oh go ahead and trust three random guys to help you transport sixteen billion isk worth of material twenty jumps. No sir, those three guys won't use the limited engagement timer to gank you themselves instead of webbing you, or pass along info to their ganking buddies so you run straight into an ambush without even blowing their own cover.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the game, or that anything needs to change (see my first sentence in this post). But this game does give conflicting signals, and I understand the frustration, that's all I'm saying.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
610
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 01:01:42 -
[18] - Quote
Khan Wrenth wrote:I think all current game mechanics and ship setups are fine right now, but I completely understand the frustration of freighter pilots. The mantra of this game is "trust no-one, everyone is out to get you", isn't it? "Everyone Verses Everyone", right? So it seems completely lopsided that this game tells you that relying on anyone but yourself is a tactical mistake, but oh go ahead and trust three random guys to help you transport sixteen billion isk worth of material twenty jumps. No sir, those three guys won't use the limited engagement timer to gank you themselves instead of webbing you, or pass along info to their ganking buddies so you run straight into an ambush without even blowing their own cover.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the game, or that anything needs to change (see my first sentence in this post). But this game does give conflicting signals, and I understand the frustration, that's all I'm saying.
Well, being more needlessly suspicious and wrong for it is, in my opinion, better than being less suspicious and being wrong. And the whole "trust no one" liner is more or less a hint at the notion that in Eve, treachery and foul play is not only permissive, it's even in some instances somewhat encouraged whereas in other MMOs it's often against the rules and bannable...that doesn't neccessarily mean that your own corp mates will turn on you in a heartbeat just by having the chance to, just that it's not against the rules CCP wants players to live by and that players can do so without fear of CCP's wrath.
The combination of the two are not necessarily contradictory if you really stop to think about it. "Trust no one" should actually be reworded into "Trust no one that hasn't earned your trust yet; if any, trust only those who you personally know have your back, but not just because they show up on overview as green or purple." Just because you're corp mates doesn't always guarantee allegiance and you should give your trust out only to those, again, who have earned your trust. You're not wrong to question that, though -- both ideals being phrased often by one player to the next is quite misleading.
If anything, you should use your own judgement to predicting potentially scummy behavior rather than solely rely on some in-game player/player rating system; just like any pilot would tell you to "get your head out of the cockpit", keep your head on a swivle. If you don't know or trust the other members flying your wing, scrub the op until you get word from someone you trust to vouch for them.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2594
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 02:16:30 -
[19] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Bumblefck wrote:The reason they're defenceless is to encourage you to...make friends, so that they can escort you. This and all the others like it just kill me. While it may be true from a technical perspective do you really think it is a viable option? So let us examine the life of a convoy guard in high sec. Countless hours spent flying from here to there watching the paint dry on the hull of a giant whale of a ship. And then one day it does happen the freighter you are guarding is attacked by gankers so you rush in to kill said gankers. And about the time you manage to start to kill some of them you explode in that blinding flash of light that signals the arrival of Concord on the scene and when it clears. You find yourself in your pod floating amid the wreckage of what used to be the ship you were flying as well as those of the gankers AND the freighter you were supposed to protect. Yea I can just see the thousands upon thousands of players that would sign up for that job when there are other more fun and more lucrative things they could be spending their time on. As I said it is all good in theroy but in the practical world of high sec aggression mechanics there is no effective way to guard a ship against gankers with guns / missiles unless the guns / missiles are on the ship being attacked. As I state over and over, I am OK with ganking and I agree that there are many ways to avoid becoming a gank target and to escape from a situation but please stop with this lie about how you should just bring friends with guns / missiles.
A few bits. Pretty much anyone in anything is going to be able to lock up the gankers before the freighter could. Arming it only generates false hope and a demand for more things that wont do any good.
Concord's arrival is an inevitability, so you're not trying to win a fight here... you're trying to keep the boat alive for 'that long'. Logistics to rep the boat are handy, Ewar to stop the incoming damage is handy, webs to shorten align time on the freighter are handy. Use ALL the tools in your toolbox when approaching this kind of problem, not just the hammer. This is not a hammer kind of problem. Thinky bits are useful here.
The bottom line is that the freighter is not, has never been, nor will likely ever be intended to be flown solo.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
754
|
Posted - 2015.09.15 14:10:23 -
[20] - Quote
Logi and reppers are the best defense for a freighter. If you really don't like being ganked, get a Jump Frieghter, and take a different route. Freighter ganking only occurs at certain bottlenecks. JF eliminates bottlenecks because you can take a jump into low and then a jump into high to get around them. |
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1367
|
Posted - 2015.09.16 02:33:50 -
[21] - Quote
Groon Sheysen wrote:Can we please arm freighters? They are ginormous ships which regularly hauls cargo worth billions yet it is completely defenseless. Why isn't it armed? Why can't it fit any defensive gear? Why can't it carry a few drones? It makes zero sense. Not saying it should be loaded up to take on a fleet of ships but it should be able to be tanked and light to medium weapons to deal with frigs and maybe a couple cruisers. Merchant ships in the real world were armed during war and the reason they aren't armed to is mainly due to insurance issues. I've just been thinking about this the past few days as I have been moving crap in my 2 freighters 32 jumps out. If a freighter is considered a ship then we should be able to fit it to some degree. Hell, we can fit haulers and transport ships...
THIS and the obvious next step - give my moros 120,000 m3 of cargo space. It's a giant ship so the cargo hold should be giant also. The moros (and all dreadnaughts for that matter) should be able to launch at least 2 fighters.
Does CCP even think at all when they design ship attributes?
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
8541
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Posted - 2015.09.16 16:56:40 -
[22] - Quote
I don't think I can really take anything you say seriously, when in another thread you suggested to a poster use medium drones instead of Geckos on their Rattlesnake.
[b]----
CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
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