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Aknot Wat
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Posted - 2006.12.18 08:47:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Aknot Wat on 18/12/2006 08:48:26
When you do a search for something, like "Mutli-Spectral-Blah-Blah" and find it...why the hell can't you have an option to say, "Reveal in Market"? So that you would then be taken to market view and then category of not only that item but the similar ones.
It's insane-when trying to find stuff-you have to weed through category after category.
"Wait is it in 'Turrets and Bays' or 'Hull Upgrades'?", etc.
This is nuts!
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Mitten
Caldari
Gloves
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Posted - 2006.12.18 08:48:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Aknot Wat
When you do a search for something, like "Mutli-Spectral-Blah-Blah" and find it...why the hell can't you have an option to say, "Reveal in Market".
So that you would then be taken to market view and then category of not only that item but the similar ones. It's insane when trying to find stuff you have to weed through category after category.
"Wait is it in 'Turrets and Bays' or 'Hull Upgrades'?", etc.
This is nuts!
It does exist...
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Haffrage
Revelations Inc.
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.18 08:49:00 -
[3]
Top of market window.
wts: eyes
-----
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Splagada
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
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Posted - 2006.12.18 08:49:00 -
[4]
the item, on top of the window, says which category it belongs to
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relaxed corp looking for members |
Aknot Wat
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Posted - 2006.12.18 08:50:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Aknot Wat on 18/12/2006 08:56:01
Edited by: Aknot Wat on 18/12/2006 08:55:08
Actually...it only HALF does what it should do.
"View Market Details" on an item should not only spit up the market but select the item IN the BROWSE tab. Expand the relevant category, etc. So you can clearly see where it is and what else is in there.
But I thank you for grok'n me on this info, it does help.
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Apocryphai
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.18 08:56:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Aknot Wat
My god...
Well...thanks! [runs out of the room covering face]
Hey, don't blame yourself because of CCP's legendarily bad interface design skills (or lack thereof)...
The general UI is embarassingly bad and this extends to the market. And now they've added contracts to the list of non-iteratively tested, poorly thought-out, pre-1990's rubbish interface elements 
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Aknot Wat
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Posted - 2006.12.18 08:58:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Aknot Wat on 18/12/2006 08:57:57
pre-1990? It says Copyright 1997-2006. ;)
1997...riiiiiight. Come on CCP. 1997...Quake 1 had JUST come out.
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Mitten
Caldari
Gloves
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Posted - 2006.12.18 09:07:00 -
[8]
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/6915/109545046cc21643c3eouv4.jpg
back to the primitive I say...
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Apocryphai
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.18 09:26:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Aknot Wat
Edited by: Aknot Wat on 18/12/2006 08:58:44
Edited by: Aknot Wat on 18/12/2006 08:57:57
pre-1990? It says Copyright 1997-2006. ;)
1997...riiiiiight. Come on CCP. 1996...Quake 1 had JUST come out...1997 saw the beginings of Quake 2!
I don't mean pre-90's in terms of style and technology, but in terms of usability.
The 90's saw a revolution in interface design, driven by web design, and it centered around usability studies and iterative testing. For those who don't know, iterative testing means designing something then getting a lot of people to test it and observing them using it paying attention to timings, mistakes, difficulties etc, and then re-designing it and refining it based upon that testing.
CCP however ignore most feedback regarding the interface and simply plow on making it clunkier and clunkier with each patch.
Originally by: Victor Valka
What the skull-chick said.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
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Posted - 2006.12.18 09:40:00 -
[10]
I have absolutely no problems with the interface.
And what excatly would make it better? Instead of right-clicking space, you should left-click? Instead of having a tree structure you want a what?
I like the interface, i work well with the interface. It might not be the way you would do it, but that doesn't make it wrong.
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oil
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Posted - 2006.12.18 09:48:00 -
[11]
a quickbar would certainly make it better. its a pain to tpe again and again when searchen for some items. for instance i look for some certain officer armor hardeners , i need to type the names evertime i look for them.. pain in the arse really.
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Apocryphai
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.18 09:53:00 -
[12]
Well, where to start?
First of all the right-click menu is cumbersome and unreliable. The menu should at the very least be sticky so that you don't repeatedly miss options 3-levels deep in the tree. This kind of nested-tree interface, especially with inconsistent directional placement of sub-trees (is it going to be on the left or the right? Who can tell!?) has long been recognised as inefficient and error-prone.
Secondly, the placement of options within the sub-tree menus is illogical and uncustomisable. How many times have you initiated a convo when you meant to show info? That's just one example. Oh and there's no state-specific coding, i.e. greying-out of non-applipcable options. This means that the menu ordering is incosistent since instead of greying out the non-applicable options simply disappear so that the menu is different every time you open it. Poor design, long, long, LONG ago modified in decent interface design circles.
Thirdly, far too much of the UI is fixed and un-customisable. You point out a very important fact about interface use - everyone is different. You have got used to the current interface, and that's great, but every single user has different preferences and different ways of working. Any UI that fails to allow for these personal differences will, by definition, be less than optimal for many of it's users. If you want a good example of a UI that allows for superb customisation then look at the WoW interface - say what you like about the game, the UI is a masterpiece of design, openness and flexibility.
I could go on at length, and have done so in the Suggestions forum many times, but CCP are incapable of learning from the mistakes and lessons of other interface designers and so we're stuck with an interface that's one of the worst there is in modern game design.
Lots of people have got used to it, that doesn't make it good 
Originally by: Victor Valka
What the skull-chick said.
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Mitten
Caldari
Gloves
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Posted - 2006.12.18 09:56:00 -
[13]
Originally by: oil
a quickbar would certainly make it better. its a pain to tpe again and again when searchen for some items. for instance i look for some certain officer armor hardeners , i need to type the names evertime i look for them.. pain in the arse really.
Dont see sarcasm in that... but there IS a quickbar...
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The Snowman
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2006.12.18 10:03:00 -
[14]
What he says makes perfect sense. You search for something in E-bay for example, and it takes you to the category and sub catergory so you can see similar items for sale..
Its a common sense market tool and is simply another backward game mechanic which is probably far to simple an idea for CCP to put any effort into.
Lets face it, even if they did try to change it they would probably break it and suffer several days of extended down-time, lol
<------------>
Poker RPG
60 jumps 'Flop' by.. |
oil
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Posted - 2006.12.18 10:04:00 -
[15]
Edited by: oil on 18/12/2006 10:05:10
for contracts? may be i am not only mentally but also visually impaired but where? please guide me.
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Mitten
Caldari
Gloves
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Posted - 2006.12.18 10:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: oil
for contracts? may be i am not onl mentall but also visuall impaired but where? please guide me.
might also be lacking the ability to say "for contracts" in the originating thread... might be that...
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.12.18 10:12:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Apocryphai
Originally by: Aknot Wat
My god...
Well...thanks! [runs out of the room covering face]
Hey, don't blame yourself because of CCP's legendarily bad interface design skills (or lack thereof)...
The general UI is embarassingly bad and this extends to the market. And now they've added contracts to the list of non-iteratively tested, poorly thought-out, pre-1990's rubbish interface elements
Well put. They can't even get the basics like focus correct let alone control layout an interaction. Speaking of the market what about the category list scrolling down to the bottom every time you buy something so that you lose your place?
--
(Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Linux is only free if your time is worthless |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Aerial Boundaries Inc.
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.18 10:21:00 -
[18]
If you can't even figure out the interface I'd hate to see your attempt at playing the game tbh.
Interface is fine, takes some working out, many things are well hidden and undocumented (like the neato magnifying glass when you're in space), but it's all there and you find it all so it's fine tbh.
----------
IBTL \o/
EVE is upside down!
WTZ+Slower Warp=Win |
Apocryphai
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.18 10:31:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
If you can't even figure out the interface I'd hate to see your attempt at playing the game tbh.
Interface is fine, takes some working out, many things are well hidden and undocumented (like the neato magnifying glass when you're in space), but it's all there and you find it all so it's fine tbh.
Perfect standard EVE forums response.
Just because you've got used to something (and I have by the way) doesn't mean it's good.
You exhibit the arrogance that has become the norm on these forums now. When I started playing this game 3 years ago I was impressed by the level of maturity and common sense displayed by the players. This has now evaporated to be replaced with self-centered, defensive, intolerant childish ranting.
Suggesting something in EVE can be improved is taken as a personal slur and evidence that the suggester is retarded - not a sign of a healthy mental attitude IMO, and is actually a characteristic of addiction.
Originally by: Victor Valka
What the skull-chick said.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
HelpCorp United
Eden's Fire
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Posted - 2006.12.18 10:39:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 18/12/2006 10:39:19
Originally by: Mitten
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/6915/109545046cc21643c3eouv4.jpg
back to the primitive I say...
WOW
I want to play THAT!
(more pictures!!!! /me drools)
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Arktaos
Minmatar
The Bratwurst Burglars
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Posted - 2006.12.18 11:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Aknot Wat
Edited by: Aknot Wat on 18/12/2006 08:48:26
When you do a search for something, like "Mutli-Spectral-Blah-Blah" and find it...why the hell can't you have an option to say, "Reveal in Market"? So that you would then be taken to market view and then category of not only that item but the similar ones.
It's insane-when trying to find stuff-you have to weed through category after category.
"Wait is it in 'Turrets and Bays' or 'Hull Upgrades'?", etc.
This is nuts!
At the top of the market view it says where the item is located.
Click that text.
---------------------------------
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.18 11:17:00 -
[22]
Uh dude... when you open View Market Details, there is a "Group" button. If you click it, you see all the items in that category 
-[23] Member-
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (Temporarily down) |
Chronus26
Gallente
Dark Blood Contracts
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Posted - 2006.12.18 11:25:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Apocryphai
Originally by: Crumplecorn
If you can't even figure out the interface I'd hate to see your attempt at playing the game tbh.
Interface is fine, takes some working out, many things are well hidden and undocumented (like the neato magnifying glass when you're in space), but it's all there and you find it all so it's fine tbh.
Perfect standard EVE forums response.
Just because you've got used to something (and I have by the way) doesn't mean it's good.
You exhibit the arrogance that has become the norm on these forums now. When I started playing this game 3 years ago I was impressed by the level of maturity and common sense displayed by the players. This has now evaporated to be replaced with self-centered, defensive, intolerant childish ranting.
Suggesting something in EVE can be improved is taken as a personal slur and evidence that the suggester is retarded - not a sign of a healthy mental attitude IMO, and is actually a characteristic of addiction.
You don't make friends by insulting people.
Nobody said the UI is perfect, but if you are THAT bothered by the menus, feel free to fill out a bug report or post a thread in the appropriate forum to bring it to attention.
-----
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.12.18 11:28:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Andrue on 18/12/2006 11:31:33
Originally by: Crumplecorn
If you can't even figure out the interface I'd hate to see your attempt at playing the game tbh.
That was smooth
Quote:
Interface is fine, takes some working out, many things are well hidden and undocumented (like the neato magnifying glass when you're in space), but it's all there and you find it all so it's fine tbh.
What a sad, attitude - I hope you aren't a software developer or anyone else involved in implementing interfaces and controls.
If you designed a telephone presumably you'd put the buttons in random places for each unit and fix the headset to the back of the unit so that you had to pick it up and turn it over to use it.
Interfaces are how the user interacts with the product or service. They should always without exception be intuitive and efficient to use. Obfusticating an interface as a way to make a game harder is not acceptable. If done properly (ie;designing the whole thing right from the start) it isn't at all difficult to do the job properly.
In fact in my experience designing the UI alongside the code produces a positive feedback. Many's the time when the code or its data structures have benefited from the UI workflow and vice versa.
--
(Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Linux is only free if your time is worthless |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Aerial Boundaries Inc.
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.12.18 11:29:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Apocryphai
Originally by: Crumplecorn
If you can't even figure out the interface I'd hate to see your attempt at playing the game tbh.
Interface is fine, takes some working out, many things are well hidden and undocumented (like the neato magnifying glass when you're in space), but it's all there and you find it all so it's fine tbh.
Perfect standard EVE forums response.
Just because you've got used to something (and I have by the way) doesn't mean it's good.
You exhibit the arrogance that has become the norm on these forums now. When I started playing this game 3 years ago I was impressed by the level of maturity and common sense displayed by the players. This has now evaporated to be replaced with self-centered, defensive, intolerant childish ranting.
Suggesting something in EVE can be improved is taken as a personal slur and evidence that the suggester is retarded - not a sign of a healthy mental attitude IMO, and is actually a characteristic of addiction.
Perfect standard forum whine. Just because you don't like the way something is, it should be changed, and anyone who doesn't jump up and down and agree must be against you.
I never said you (or anyone else) couldn't figure out the interface. I never said it can't or shouldn't be improved, just that it is fine as it is.
If you look closely you'll see the first part of my post is a conditional statement which applies only to those people who cannot figure out the interface, a group which you apparently are not a member of.
The second part does not state (though it may imply) that the interface should not be improved. But in its current form it does the job just fine, and your thinking that it is 'embarassingly bad' does not make it so.
You exhibit the arrogance that has become the norm of the forums now. You believe that your own issues with the game are the most important ones.
Suggesting that something in Eve you think needs 'fixing' is actually ok is taken as a personal slur - not a sign of a healthy mental attitude IMO.
----------
IBTL \o/
EVE is upside down!
WTZ+Slower Warp=Win |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Aerial Boundaries Inc.
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.12.18 11:34:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Andrue
I hope you aren't a software developer or anyone else involved in implementing interfaces and controls.
If this truly is your hope, then you shall be disappointed  .
And you are quite correct in your assertion that my belief that an interface that does the job plenty well enough should not be a high priority for improvements means that were I myself to design an interface I would make it intentionally obfusticated*.
*May contain traces of sarcasm
----------
IBTL \o/
EVE is upside down!
WTZ+Slower Warp=Win |
Tareen Kashaar
eXin Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.18 11:38:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Apocryphai
Well, where to start?
First of all the right-click menu is cumbersome and unreliable. The menu should at the very least be sticky so that you don't repeatedly miss options 3-levels deep in the tree. This kind of nested-tree interface, especially with inconsistent directional placement of sub-trees (is it going to be on the left or the right? Who can tell!?) has long been recognised as inefficient and error-prone.
Secondly, the placement of options within the sub-tree menus is illogical and uncustomisable. How many times have you initiated a convo when you meant to show info? That's just one example. Oh and there's no state-specific coding, i.e. greying-out of non-applipcable options. This means that the menu ordering is incosistent since instead of greying out the non-applicable options simply disappear so that the menu is different every time you open it. Poor design, long, long, LONG ago modified in decent interface design circles.
Thirdly, far too much of the UI is fixed and un-customisable. You point out a very important fact about interface use - everyone is different. You have got used to the current interface, and that's great, but every single user has different preferences and different ways of working. Any UI that fails to allow for these personal differences will, by definition, be less than optimal for many of it's users. If you want a good example of a UI that allows for superb customisation then look at the WoW interface - say what you like about the game, the UI is a masterpiece of design, openness and flexibility.
I could go on at length, and have done so in the Suggestions forum many times, but CCP are incapable of learning from the mistakes and lessons of other interface designers and so we're stuck with an interface that's one of the worst there is in modern game design.
Lots of people have got used to it, that doesn't make it good
This man speaketh the truth.
While it may be a bit ranting, it's true nonetheless... I mean come on, not even keyboard shortcuts for switching locked targets? Or control drones? Please...
---
WTS: Forum Signatures, 30mil a piece. Evemail me!
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Doxs Roxs
White Wolves Defence league
The OSS
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Posted - 2006.12.18 11:48:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Apocryphai
Well, where to start?
First of all the right-click menu is cumbersome and unreliable. The menu should at the very least be sticky so that you don't repeatedly miss options 3-levels deep in the tree. This kind of nested-tree interface, especially with inconsistent directional placement of sub-trees (is it going to be on the left or the right? Who can tell!?) has long been recognised as inefficient and error-prone.
Secondly, the placement of options within the sub-tree menus is illogical and uncustomisable. How many times have you initiated a convo when you meant to show info? That's just one example. Oh and there's no state-specific coding, i.e. greying-out of non-applipcable options. This means that the menu ordering is incosistent since instead of greying out the non-applicable options simply disappear so that the menu is different every time you open it. Poor design, long, long, LONG ago modified in decent interface design circles.
Thirdly, far too much of the UI is fixed and un-customisable. You point out a very important fact about interface use - everyone is different. You have got used to the current interface, and that's great, but every single user has different preferences and different ways of working. Any UI that fails to allow for these personal differences will, by definition, be less than optimal for many of it's users. If you want a good example of a UI that allows for superb customisation then look at the WoW interface - say what you like about the game, the UI is a masterpiece of design, openness and flexibility.
Lots of people have got used to it, that doesn't make it good
The user interface in this game should not even be called an interface, just have a look at any of the other modern MMOs on the market and you will find EvEs interface to be embarrisingly old and hard to use.
Its bad enough that one cannot customize it properly, the sub menus add insult to injury.
Ill list a few things that I feel can be improved alot, its not all, but a preview
A proper quickbar is missing
And Im not talking about the crap we have today for weapons and modules, Im talking about a customizable quickbar where you can drag your own buttons for different commands. In most other modern interfaces you simply drag the button from the normal interface window and drop it on your quickbar. I played Dark Age of Camelot before EvE, and there they eventually expanded the quickbars to 3 onscreen at any given time. And each quickbar was scrollable (via keybindings) for a total of 300 interface shortcuts, with 30 visible in screen at any time. This could be used in Eve to control drones and all other aspects of the ship etc.
I cannot move or customize the ships status window.
This one is really basic, I want to move the status window or I might even want to change its size and shape. But we cannot, were stuck with a status window in the middle of the screen. In more developed interfaces (have a look at WoW for a prime example, but DAOC was almost the same with an XML based UI) there were thousands of custom status windows available from the player base since the UI is so easily customizable. Most revolved around cutting away the crap and displaying the really important information. This also meant that you could position your HP bars like any other window, and you could move them where ever you want them, have different parts transparent etc.
Keyboard shortcuts
At the moment only the F1-F12 keys are really free for use since all other keys more or less default to the chatbox. One simple solution that was used in DAOC was to have all keys available for binding to quickbars or other interface controls. To chat you would have to press enter first. Thus the default behaivour is to access your shortcuts and interface, and the secondary is to chat. Of course, in a proper UI the user should be able to choose what key to use for chat activation
Regards
/Doxs
After 9 months, why is my face just a '!' ? |
Harisdrop
Gallente
ClanKillers
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.12.18 14:02:00 -
[29]
I am in a EVE nerd post woot.
New NPC Region |
Trek
Minmatar
N.A.G.A Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.12.18 15:20:00 -
[30]
Well I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Eve UI is horrible. And saying that it only needs figuring out is just plain wrong, a good user interface should be intuitive and not need to be figured out. However this kind of posts tends to be ignored, as have several of my earlier on the subject.
For example the text-fields and buttons in some windows can't be moved around in using tab, and those which can sometimes has really wierd movement order.
Also the overview buttons (orbit, lock etc) move around when different objects are selected, even if it has gotten better lately with buttons no longer appearing out of thin air inbetween others.
And as already has been said, very deep menu trees.
The CCP coders may be really good at hacking graphics code and the like. The fake HDR still looks wonderful years after it was made, and the game is very complex and addicting (hey I'm still playing more than 3 years later). But someone needs to go back to school regarding the interface.
---
My other ship is a Reaper
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