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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1801
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Posted - 2015.09.14 20:59:04 -
[1] - Quote
The best part was everyone throwing it in CCP's face in twitch chat the entire time, them studiously ignoring it, and now this.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1802
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:07:09 -
[2] - Quote
No worries everyone. We screenscapped it before edits. I will tweet the picture from @EVEAryth.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1804
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:20:06 -
[3] - Quote
So lets see everyone on the teams banned from future AT's. All prizes siezed. We all knew they were Hydra A and Hydra B from the get go. CCP even knew but didn't have enough to do anything. Well, now you do and this isn't the first time this has happened.
If you want the AT to be anything but a farce you need to come down super hard.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1805
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:32:33 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:Chat logs are removed from posts under the forum rules regardless of veracity or source, partly because of the inability to have any sort of guarantee of their source or veracity.
To the OP, If you have evidence of any collusion or breach of rules in the tournament, please submit it via support ticket under community and we will look into it. We take this very seriously. The more information (including timestamps wherever possible), the better.
Are you saying that if he doesn't file a ticket you won't?
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1805
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:43:46 -
[5] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Aryth wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:Chat logs are removed from posts under the forum rules regardless of veracity or source, partly because of the inability to have any sort of guarantee of their source or veracity.
To the OP, If you have evidence of any collusion or breach of rules in the tournament, please submit it via support ticket under community and we will look into it. We take this very seriously. The more information (including timestamps wherever possible), the better. Are you saying that if he doesn't file a ticket you won't? Basics of investigations, they need a valid complainant, else its just spear fishing and hoping you can make sense of stuff.
Not remotely true. They went ahead and did a dev post before the tourny about this. Clearly they had already "looked" into it enough for that.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1809
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Posted - 2015.09.14 21:59:37 -
[6] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:Aryth wrote:Phoenix Jones wrote:Aryth wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:Chat logs are removed from posts under the forum rules regardless of veracity or source, partly because of the inability to have any sort of guarantee of their source or veracity.
To the OP, If you have evidence of any collusion or breach of rules in the tournament, please submit it via support ticket under community and we will look into it. We take this very seriously. The more information (including timestamps wherever possible), the better. Are you saying that if he doesn't file a ticket you won't? Basics of investigations, they need a valid complainant, else its just spear fishing and hoping you can make sense of stuff. Not remotely true. They went ahead and did a dev post before the tourny about this. Clearly they had already "looked" into it enough for that. Looking and actually doing, much much different. You can't prosecute someone for doing a crime if you don't have any evidence of it, and CCP isn't going to stalk peoples slack, mumble, teamspeak, text messages, etc etc etc. The guys pretty much a whistleblower. He has evidence and is coming forward, but he's doing it infront of the entire community. Basically he's forcing a investigation by risking his entire game life. I'll give him some credit for that. Basically what will happen is a bunch of people will either lie, or someone else will come forward to corroborate what he's stating. They don't need 100 witnesses, just 1 with a method of backing up what he's alleging. In this case, unchanged logs and other people who saw what happened. Also.. this isn't the US Court System, this is basically a dictatorship on CCP's end. If they feel like they've been cheated and lied to, they can go after anybody and everybody involved with pretty much next to no evidence, and there would be no appeal to it. They get 1 person to come forward.... (Yes I watch alot of crime dramas) But yea a investigation. I'm curious what the CSM are thinking to be honest.
Making sure I quote this because you are obviously completely oblivious to recent events. You know, where they did exactly that. When I read stalk peoples slack I just lost it.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1809
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Posted - 2015.09.14 22:41:24 -
[7] - Quote
The problem is the first punishment didn't work. The recent warning didn't work. The only thing that will work is a huge hammer to the face. I don't support actually banning anyone from the game. Banning from AT is a perfectly reasonable response. Not rewarding the behavior by seizing the ships is also perfectly reasonable.
Yes, everyone knew it was going on. The problem with getting caught is then the pain comes. If this was the first time this happened it might be easier to argue for no punishment. Unfortunately, that isn't the case.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1810
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Posted - 2015.09.14 22:55:32 -
[8] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Aryth wrote:The problem is the first punishment didn't work. The recent warning didn't work. The only thing that will work is a huge hammer to the face. I don't support actually banning anyone from the game. Banning from AT is a perfectly reasonable response. Not rewarding the behavior by seizing the ships is also perfectly reasonable.
Yes, everyone knew it was going on. The problem with getting caught is then the pain comes. If this was the first time this happened it might be easier to argue for no punishment. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. banning hasnt and never will work for the tournament. People just use alts and there's no way to prove they are. Besides, I dont think they deserve to get banned. They played a game with CCP and they lost. they deserve some recognition for almost getting away with it. They were very clever about it.
They weren't clever? Everyone was openly trolling CCP the entire tournament every time one would come up in a match. They had to post before the tournament saying don't do this? I would think clever is flying under the radar completely. This wasn't clever. It wasn't even original.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1821
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Posted - 2015.09.15 00:21:55 -
[9] - Quote
I have no doubt DHB doesn't have the purest motives. However, as you said he left of his own volition. He had no need to post this and did anyway. You claim the chatlog is BS. Are you then saying he faked the entire log?
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
|
Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1834
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Posted - 2015.09.15 01:07:45 -
[10] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Aryth wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Aryth wrote:The problem is the first punishment didn't work. The recent warning didn't work. The only thing that will work is a huge hammer to the face. I don't support actually banning anyone from the game. Banning from AT is a perfectly reasonable response. Not rewarding the behavior by seizing the ships is also perfectly reasonable.
Yes, everyone knew it was going on. The problem with getting caught is then the pain comes. If this was the first time this happened it might be easier to argue for no punishment. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. banning hasnt and never will work for the tournament. People just use alts and there's no way to prove they are. Besides, I dont think they deserve to get banned. They played a game with CCP and they lost. they deserve some recognition for almost getting away with it. They were very clever about it. They weren't clever? Everyone was openly trolling CCP the entire tournament every time one would come up in a match. They had to post before the tournament saying don't do this? I would think clever is flying under the radar completely. This wasn't clever. It wasn't even original. they were clever. They took a calcualted risk, with a pretty high chance of paying off, with a pretty high chance of getting away with it. They got away with it completely last year, and made a hell of a lot of isk playing the gamble. There was no reason they wouldn't get away with it again considering this year's flimsy last minute rules clarification. The fact remains, what they did was wrong. But banning them does absolutely nothing. They will be back next year, unless ccp fundamentally changes the way they have banned people in the past. I refuse to make the argument they should get their prizes siezed completely. one of two things will happen if that's the case. Either CCP will drastically reduce the amount of tournament ships, making the ones we have incredibly valuable, or they will redistribute the ships to the other teams, making us far better off also. I won't make an argument based around that, because it shows self interest. There can be more than enough done to them without me looking as if i want to get an advantage out of this (which i dont). I just want to make the tournament better and more competative in the future. Hydra included.
That is exactly why punishment must be severe. It ain't their first time.
I actually like the taking theirs and you guys having the only ones. Or maybe just giving you guys 2nd place #s and reclaiming 1st and 3rd (obviously just give you the difference).
But at this point CCP has to come down like a sack of bricks. Otherwise, their warnings mean nothing. I am sure Hydra will try avoid any AT ban. I am also sure a army of internet detectives would relish the opportunity to out some later on. Yay drama!
Edit: Clarifying They = Hydra
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1834
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Posted - 2015.09.15 01:20:58 -
[11] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Leonardo Adami wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Besides, I dont think they deserve to get banned. They played a game with CCP and they lost. they deserve some recognition for almost getting away with it. They were very clever about it. so, the message you want CCP send to AT community is "feel free to cheat, worst thing what can happen is you getting caught and your prizes seized"?? This would invalidate the tournament completely and turn it into a joke as everyone would try to cheat and some for sure get away with it. Who the hell would want to watch a cheater tournament, seriously? Pretty sure the AT is for the rich and the cheaters.... I really dont want it to be. I've been involved in the tourney since 2005. i was part of a really small team in my first year, and I remember the nerves, excitement, and joy which came with winning matches as an underdog. I've become reasonably close with a few of these underdog teams this year, and I WANT them to do well, they deserve to with all the effort they put in. The rules CAN be changed to let these kind of teams flourish, and they should be, because that is the kind of tournament drama we want, not this crap..
I dunno. This is pretty good drama.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Aryth
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1864
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Posted - 2015.09.15 16:06:33 -
[12] - Quote
Mr Rive wrote:Citricioni wrote:Mr Rive wrote:Skyler Hawk wrote:This thread is getting way off-topic, but the idea that "lesser" teams such as Exodus, Nulli, Shadow, and HKX just sit around waiting for PL or Hydra to show a comp and then run off to imitate it is completely ridiculous. Several teams (us, Exodus, HKX) ran a variant of the double floon comp on the first day of the tournament - the only way we/they could've been copying Hydra is if we had a spy in the warlords/camel testing wormhole. Nobody was copying Hydra's setups, you just had a lot of teams independently settling on double floon comps as solid setups for the opening rounds of the tournament. i never said they were lesser teams, i never said they didnt theorycraft their own setups, they have to, what i said was the smaller teams dont have the manpower to spend thousands of hours testing dozens of iterations of dozens of setups to come up with the entire meta chain. I never said double floon comps weren't solid for the opening rounds, i said they were a small rock in the later rounds. PLs first loss in the AT, was against a "Typhoon + Typhoon Fleet" Setup, so you lost the first match against a "small rock" Yep. Small rocks can break windows when aimed well and are unexpected.
You are falling into the hubris trap. You believe that your depth of experience and intimate knowledge of this specific process means that no one else can understand how it all works. People don't need to understand the minutia to understand cheating. It doesn't matter how many different ways you can cheat or how deep and engrossing the meta of cheating is. Cheating is cheating. The AT is supposed to be the one pure place for this sorta PVP. A large part of why we have no interest in it. Not that we don't think it is a cool thing for EVE. But, we are just here for empire building. Not leet pvp.
Again, if it was their first time your arguments for mercy might be acceptable. Unfortunately, this is the fool CCP twice point. If the AT is to have even a semblance of fair competition they need to get hit with a very huge stick. Same reason we don't dunk CCP again with Forex. We can, we know the math and the algo. We don't because they already said don't and it is bannable.
Once you get punished for something once, then rewarned and you do it anyway you deserve to get a harsh punishment.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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