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Irimi Nage Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:36:00 - [61] There are WAAAAAAAY too many backseat drivers in this thread. Lets not play "higher-lower" shall we? --- BoB... We're on your forumz, stealin' your sigz.
Lowa Gallente North Star Networks Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2006.12.19 11:00:00 - [62] Now, lets say the offer was actually made, MC would have taken it, would it have changed the outcome? No. ASCN would still be in the situation it is today. One single unit can not change the course of such a war if the entity waging it is not ready to commit and have the underlying power in it self. As someone said (and its been said in a thousand other threads too) Merc's are shock troops, not long time siege troops. In this case it would involve a strike so hard it would knock out 3 suns and a nudiebar. After that its up to the client to fill the void / police / hold the area and finish the siege. Ofc with specialized help (think surgical strike) of the Mercs if needed. My 2 rather hungry cents, need lunch. Regards, Lowa What if the truth was something else?
JINX HSC Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.19 11:30:00 - [63] Originally by: Lowa Now, lets say the offer was actually made, MC would have taken it, would it have changed the outcome? No. ASCN would still be in the situation it is today. One single unit can not change the course of such a war if the entity waging it is not ready to commit and have the underlying power in it self. As someone said (and its been said in a thousand other threads too) Merc's are shock troops, not long time siege troops. In this case it would involve a strike so hard it would knock out 3 suns and a nudiebar. After that its up to the client to fill the void / police / hold the area and finish the siege. Ofc with specialized help (think surgical strike) of the Mercs if needed. My 2 rather hungry cents, need lunch. Regards, Lowa QFT lunch dont talk about it .. we will have lunch 13:00 today couse there is some sort of santadinnerthingi here... btw lowa call me.. //mask - KLADDKAKA - Trig read the rulez m8!!!
insanebe Caldari soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:57:00 - [64] Originally by: Coug Originally by: insanebe who was the client that paid 40 billion ? Offered, not paid. And it was slightly above 40 billion, but not by much does that mean the offer was turned down ...or was it some fake offer knowledge is power.... guard it well
Cabadrin Caldari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:51:00 - [65] I've been a merc for a while - before that I was a carebear in NORAD yarrrr. It's been a bit over two years since then, half of which I've been a director in Sharks, so I've seen a few contracts come and go. I want to clear up a few things here, and reconfirm what Seleene says (though I doubt some paranoid people will believe me). Maybe this will help other Merc corps as well: 1. Every contract is looked at. We then evaluate the cost/benefits of such a deal. We get a lot of contract offers per week - you can go to here and submit an offer - so we have to make a decision about which one to take. However, we cannot personally get back to everyone about the status of their contract. Many people who convo me about an offer (feel free in-game) get upset because we don't take it; we may have many reasons not to: Lack of planning from the client (as Seleene has said). Previous obligations to another client or ourselves (carebear periods or contracts negotiated months ago). A better offer was made to us. This leads to my second point. 2. We're not stupid. No, we won't take contracts that would result in unacceptable odds, or situations that aren't beneficial to our members. This decision is at our discretion. Several previous posters seem to think that mercs need to take any offer given to them, but this is not true. An offer is exactly that: you are bidding for our skills. If your bid isn't appealing, it's within our rights to turn it down, for whatever reason. 3. Mercing isn't profitable. Sometimes we take contracts at low prices because they'll be fun, for training, because the client is in need and can't afford our rates, whatever reason we see fit. Many of those contracts either break even or result in a loss. This is acceptable to us because, frankly, we're playing a game. We have ways of keeping our organization afloat, and even if I objected to it at first, I now know it was the right decision to have a dedicated industry. _______________________________________________
Lowa Gallente North Star Networks Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2006.12.19 16:25:00 - [66] Originally by: Cabadrin I now know it was the right decision to have a dedicated industry. For God's sake shut up!!! You are ruining it! /Lowa What if the truth was something else?
Waagaa Ktlehr Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.19 16:45:00 - [67] I think a lot of people need to remember: Mercenaries are not knights in shining armor We are business men. The only difference being that we sell death, not goods. - - One ship to jam them all, one ship to damp them. One ship to suck them dry and in the dark void gank them.
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.19 16:56:00 - [68] Originally by: Svetlanna Official annoucement: Omeega and I will attack BOB for 1 isk. Paid, and trebled if you take GQ2. --P
Herculite Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.19 21:25:00 - [69] Mmmmm 100 billion could field, lets say 729 t2 fitted BS's after insurance. I think a far smarter plan IF that sort of money were floating around would have been to hire a few good FC's and start equiping your members. Thats going to be the real mystery in the fall of ASCN. Where did all the money go? Most ASCN members pay for their own ships at empire cost yet their are rumors of some HUGE stockpiles the larger ASCN corps had built up for Kali. So outside of building Steve, where will it go?
Player One Minmatar Die wilde 13	Posted - 2006.12.19 21:34:00 - [70] Originally by: Herculite Mmmmm 100 billion could field, lets say 729 t2 fitted BS's after insurance. I think a far smarter plan IF that sort of money were floating around would have been to hire a few good FC's and start equiping your members. [...] best FC can't beat the spies in his gang, killing every attempt to be succesfull.
Dal Thrax Caldari House Of Troy	Posted - 2006.12.19 22:19:00 - [71] Originally by: Coug Originally by: insanebe who was the client that paid 40 billion ? Offered, not paid. And it was slightly above 40 billion, but not by much Just wondering, what does a standard MC Merc contract look like. Do you get paid a flat fee, per kill/pod, bonuses for objectives? Does the client reimburse you for ordinance expended? If somebody pulls a Titan out of their back pocket and DD's your entire fleet who pays the loss?
Vrizuh Eve Defence Force Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.20 03:25:00 - [72] Looking at the definition of Mercenary, I'd say it is anyone who: 1) Is fighting for money & 2) Is not fighting for their host government. (Thus a paid soldier isnt a mercenary until its a foreign power paying him) In other words, there is NOTHING about what a mercenary's politics should be. We may take the view that in business it would be best to maximise the number of potential clients. However MC may take the view that maximising the potential clients also means maximising the potential enemies. More enemies, fewer free troops for mobilisation, and harder to manufacture the neccesary equipment for accepting large contracts en masse. Mercenaries are simply soldiers paid by someone other than who they're expected to be loyal to. That is it. It'd be like a British corp being hired by the U.S for security services in Iraq. It doesn't mean they'd accept Iraqi contracts against targets in NYC. Personally I do believe that MC would have accepted an ASCN contract. As these threads have proven however, there is a vast mis-understanding and mistreatment of mercenaries. Ideally I think it'd be nice if ASCN burnt every penny throwing mercs at BoB to make this the most stale victory they ever achieve. But then, its not my money so of course I wouldnt care about wasting it ;) I needed more isk, so I took a risk. I mined some ore then fled once more. I'll return to the core to escape the war!
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.12.20 08:11:00 - [73] ASCN are dying who cares. 200B might have peaked MC interest but bob had em contracted to attack RAGOON anyway ( eve tribune can get stuffed im calling em RAGOON) These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views This is a disclaimer
CDS Leader Caldari Eve Forum Warriors	Posted - 2006.12.20 09:17:00 - [74] Originally by: Herculite Thats going to be the real mystery in the fall of ASCN. Where did all the money go? Most ASCN members pay for their own ships at empire cost yet their are rumors of some HUGE stockpiles the larger ASCN corps had built up for Kali. So outside of building Steve, where will it go? I beleive the Directors of Corps have pocketed it. No doubt they will come out with a sob story to say it was all spent on war. I doubt that most members are even aware that some ASCN Corps had over 10 million Morphite reserves, which I am sure is tucked away in empire to buy Corvus's. Join Eve Forum Warriors Free Wardecs on Alliances! A Pirates Dream!
Smith Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.20 09:31:00 - [75] I will shoot BOB for 100Billion isk. "Hast can I test my guns on you"
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.20 09:55:00 - [76] Originally by: Mitch Taylor does anyone NOT have access to ACSN forums Right here...Security risk due to my corp history. Shrug Originally by: Crumplecorn Wow, CCP make a change that eliminates whines and there are whines about the lack of whines.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.20 10:45:00 - [77] Originally by: AKULA UrQuan Originally by: Mitch Taylor does anyone NOT have access to ACSN forums Right here...Security risk due to my corp history. Shrug ROFL You serious ? God your alliance sucks. Get the hell out of there while you can Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.12.20 11:08:00 - [78] Originally by: Cabadrin 3. Mercing isn't profitable. Sometimes we take contracts at low prices because they'll be fun, for training, because the client is in need and can't afford our rates, whatever reason we see fit. Many of those contracts either break even or result in a loss. This is acceptable to us because, frankly, we're playing a game. We have ways of keeping our organization afloat, and even if I objected to it at first, I now know it was the right decision to have a dedicated industry. OMG, you're the A-Team aren't you? I knew it. Which one of you is Mr T? What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.20 11:08:00 - [79] Bail with a war on? Nah, not my style. ItÆs a weird integrity thing thatÆs often more trouble than itÆs worth. Originally by: Crumplecorn Wow, CCP make a change that eliminates whines and there are whines about the lack of whines.
Phoenus Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.20 11:25:00 - [80] Originally by: FireFoxx80 Originally by: Cabadrin 3. Mercing isn't profitable. Sometimes we take contracts at low prices because they'll be fun, for training, because the client is in need and can't afford our rates, whatever reason we see fit. Many of those contracts either break even or result in a loss. This is acceptable to us because, frankly, we're playing a game. We have ways of keeping our organization afloat, and even if I objected to it at first, I now know it was the right decision to have a dedicated industry. OMG, you're the A-Team aren't you? I knew it. Which one of you is Mr T? Cowboy. [ 2006.08.16 20:49:06 ] (combat) Your Electron Blaster Cannon II barely scratches Dominix [NTEMS]<HELLH>(Dominix), causing 1908.4 damage.
Karash Amerius Amarr O.E.C	Posted - 2006.12.20 17:50:00 - [81] Originally by: Kriger Do you actually believe that dribble urself? Its merely an excuse used by 'some' merc corps to refuse contracts that doesnt suit their political or strategic goals. Mercs by definition wouldnt normally give a rats *rse what they were payed to do, as long as they got payed well. This being a game, im sure most mercs would refuse do a 4 week mining contract so yes some contracts may be turned down due to the potential bore factor ;) However dont be so naive to assume that the whole phrase 'you need a plan' is nothing more than a convinient excuse, a 'get out of a contract offer with no explaination' for-free' card. That being said, i have no idea if MC were offered 100B isk to have a go at BoB, but it doesnt really matter. Even if MC may deny it, they are a political entity in their own right (which is fine and understandable, tho' oddly enough they seem to deny it and use 'excuses' like the above). Tbh id have much more respect for the MC guys if they just went balls out n spoke their minds, as in 'your contracts sux and we got better to do' or 'no way we are touching that one, we like our outposts'. So yes.. its understandable if MC (and others) turned down a BoB contract. Just dont try to feed sain ppl the argument that it was because ASCN didnt have a plan. Thats just plain silly. Coming in a bit late here...but nevertheless... I think what you are referring to could be a "brigand" or pirate. Often times, the pursuit of ISK over any other concern (political, military reality, etc) often leads brigands and pirates to perform very unwise long term actions that have serious reprocussions. 'True Mercs' actually have to look after their corp FIRST and not themselves (unlike a pirate corp for example). No real professional merc organization is just going to take a lump sum of ISK without a serious plan. Maybe in Empire wars this will get you by, but definately not when dealing with Alliances. For example...in our last contract, we were hired to war declare ASCN. Now, did we get paid to just go shoot up some people randomly? No...we executed a plan and had to target specific regions of space (Empire in this case). We are too small to go down to Paragon Soul and trade shots with the Blob fleets. The mission, contract, money, and goals all have to fit the mercenary organization that executes the contract. Brigands and Pirates like to 'part time merc'...taking money to do anything really. Merc Blog
Ket Halpak ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.21 06:16:00 - [82] Originally by: Mitch Taylor does anyone NOT have access to ACSN forums Me Edit: Never mind, disregard the above
Jasai Kameron Catalyst Reaction Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.21 20:35:00 - [83] Originally by: Liora Vahan Though I fail to see why people want to 'kill' alliances. To stop those alliances killing them, I'd guess. Or for the giggle-factor. It's a toss-up.

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