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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Liluiminato	Posted - 2006.12.20 13:34:00 - [1] Could I hear expert-traders opinion about prices for rigs? Now it's about 200-500mln per T1 rig... have CCP planned that high prices for rigs? Is 200-500mln price supposed to be normal for them? Or is that a temporary price due to low supply? Shouldn the price be about 1-3mln for something as expected everyone would use in their ships of all types? For something with one-way ticket to your ship's slot?
Exelsior Endangered Species	Posted - 2006.12.20 13:41:00 - [2] Originally by: Liluiminato Could I hear expert-traders opinion about prices for rigs? Now it's about 200-500mln per T1 rig... have CCP planned that high prices for rigs? Is 200-500mln price supposed to be normal for them? Or is that a temporary price due to low supply? Shouldn the price be about 1-3mln for something as expected everyone would use in their ships of all types? For something with one-way ticket to your ship's slot? Prices are actually around 60-100m, and have more than halved in just a few days. I'm sure they will fall more. As to 1-3m? I don't see even low grade implant sets go for anything less than about a bil, so why should implants for ships that can play a very important role cost so little? I think around 30-50m for t1 rigs is a fair price. Or else everyone will have them on every ship, and that's far from the idea.
ManagaManaga Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.20 13:46:00 - [3] But implantants are far more difficult to loose than a ship :) _____________ POWER of WORD =============
Exelsior Endangered Species	Posted - 2006.12.20 13:56:00 - [4] Originally by: ManagaManaga But implantants are far more difficult to loose than a ship :) True, however these rigs are far more varied and give a far bigger bonus than implants (unless you have a full grade set), which means the only way to balance this is to make them expensive too, or else implants become partly devalued.

Tirg Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.12.20 14:38:00 - [5] Another thing to consider, is the cost of the salvage components. Most mission runner I know, reprocess anything under say, 50k isk value. If it isn't worth their time to salvage ( or waste hi- slots with salvage modules) then you'll have to run missions or rat for your own. The BPOs are very cheap ( 112k isk IIRC). I don't think rigs should be outrageous, however, I don't think so cheap that noone will bother farming components. forum rules

SencneS Amarr Keepers of the Holy Bagel	Posted - 2006.12.20 15:39:00 - [6] Edited by: SencneS on 20/12/2006 15:46:03 There is a thread here http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=433339&page=1 Which is about component prices which I think directly effects the cost of the rigs. In my honest opinion Rigs are still kinda rare because not enough people salvage or whatever. The drop of circuits increased allowing people to make rigs easier. I honesty can't see these things going much over 1mil. I can see people selling components for 10K a piece and rigs for maybe a mil. The simple fact is, the BPO to build the rig is cheap. Why spend a fortune on a rig, when you can buy the BPO, buy the Salvager BPO, build a salvager go out and rat in a .5 system salvage for an a couple of hours and build your very own. EDIT:- I suck at the URL
1stClass Typhoon	Posted - 2006.12.20 17:33:00 - [7] As for salvaging for hours, try a full day. I'm running missions and salvaging, but actual yield is ridicously low. Not every wreck is salvageable and those that are 'salvageable' might have no components in them or give u 1 - 3 components for your 5 mins of tractoring and salvaging. Also salvaging does not necessary happen within one salvager cycle which increases time consumption per component. Sometimes the suckor fails multiple time before display: 'You have successfully salvaged from small wreck, but there was nothing worth salvaging in it.' That just makes u mad
SencneS Amarr Keepers of the Holy Bagel	Posted - 2006.12.20 17:40:00 - [8] Originally by: 1stClass Typhoon As for salvaging for hours, try a full day. I'm running missions and salvaging, but actual yield is ridicously low. Not every wreck is salvageable and those that are 'salvageable' might have no components in them or give u 1 - 3 components for your 5 mins of tractoring and salvaging. Also salvaging does not necessary happen within one salvager cycle which increases time consumption per component. Sometimes the suckor fails multiple time before display: 'You have successfully salvaged from small wreck, but there was nothing worth salvaging in it.' That just makes u mad In 0.0 space (Alliance held) Battleships drop from 2-6 parts. Because the stuff they drop is big when our corp is ratting to help boost the wallet we make sure we drag a hauler along. Now we drag a hauler and a fast cruiser with a decent hold. Equip 4 or 5 Salvagers, 2 tractor beams to the cruiser. The hauler tractor beams the wrecks in and take the loot, then the Salvage Drone goes alone and scans all the empty wrecks with 5 Salvagers.. One of those Salvages will score it lucky. In fact I was the salvage drone in an Omen once. I tried salvage on 5 wrecks at once and all 5 salvage beams on 1 wreck at a time. I can tell you 1 Wreck at a time 95% of the time it will get it on the first run, the other 5% the second. Salvage is very quick, at least to me.

Tirg Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.12.20 17:43:00 - [9] I can promise you, if they fall that far, I will unfit my salvagers. Time spent on salvaging vs how much faster I can collect bounties with more guns fitted. I know what my break even point is. It will be different for every player, of course, as not everyone can run lvl 3/4 missions quickly( and also more profitable than high sec rat hunting). 0.0 ratting may choose not to waste cargo space on the components at that price either. Alot of 0.0 loot is left to rot as it is ( bounties pay better than loot from non- battleships). forum rules

Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2006.12.20 18:03:00 - [10] blinks Seeing a mod in a Market Discussion thread is kind of like seeing the SWAT team in the NYSE.

Exelsior Endangered Species	Posted - 2006.12.20 18:11:00 - [11] Originally by: Ramblin Man blinks Seeing a mod in a Market Discussion thread is kind of like seeing the SWAT team in the NYSE.
Shadarle	Posted - 2006.12.20 19:32:00 - [12] Edited by: Shadarle on 20/12/2006 19:32:59 They can't go much under 10m for the good rigs imo... if they do then people will stop salvaging as it isn't worth the time/effort. Heck, it's barely worth the time/effort at the current prices (which is about 35 mil to build a shield rig). So if it goes too much lower then they won't be built. Remember, it takes between 50 and 150 of each component to make a rig. Who is gonna salvage to get 20-30 of those if that means you get 1 mil ISK... it takes WAYYYY too long to salvage that many containers for a mere 1 mil profit (from level 3's)... it would be faster to just run another mission. ********************************************** Tank Rankings - Ships & Fittings Compared! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=386174

Tirg Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.12.20 20:37:00 - [13] Originally by: Ramblin Man blinks Seeing a mod in a Market Discussion thread is kind of like seeing the SWAT team in the NYSE. Hehe, this is the first forum I check every day:) I think 3 other mods do as well!! I prefer this forum, when people insult each other they use bigger words:P forum rules

Ramblin Man Empyreum	Posted - 2006.12.20 20:58:00 - [14] Originally by: Tirg Originally by: Ramblin Man blinks Seeing a mod in a Market Discussion thread is kind of like seeing the SWAT team in the NYSE. Hehe, this is the first forum I check every day:) I think 3 other mods do as well!! I prefer this forum, when people insult each other they use bigger words:P ... presumptuous troglobite.
Liluiminato	Posted - 2006.12.20 21:02:00 - [15] It'is interesting what is CCP's plans about rigs prices, what were they planning when coded the patch ... Maybe they will increase amount of salvaged materials in wrecs? to lower the price and to provide better supply?
Pang Grohl Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.21 00:06:00 - [16] Originally by: SencneS Originally by: 1stClass Typhoon As for salvaging for hours, try a full day. I'm running missions and salvaging, but actual yield is ridicously low. Not every wreck is salvageable and those that are 'salvageable' might have no components in them or give u 1 - 3 components for your 5 mins of tractoring and salvaging. Also salvaging does not necessary happen within one salvager cycle which increases time consumption per component. Sometimes the suckor fails multiple time before display: 'You have successfully salvaged from small wreck, but there was nothing worth salvaging in it.' That just makes u mad In 0.0 space (Alliance held) Battleships drop from 2-6 parts. Because the stuff they drop is big when our corp is ratting to help boost the wallet we make sure we drag a hauler along. Now we drag a hauler and a fast cruiser with a decent hold. Equip 4 or 5 Salvagers, 2 tractor beams to the cruiser. The hauler tractor beams the wrecks in and take the loot, then the Salvage Drone goes alone and scans all the empty wrecks with 5 Salvagers.. One of those Salvages will score it lucky. In fact I was the salvage drone in an Omen once. I tried salvage on 5 wrecks at once and all 5 salvage beams on 1 wreck at a time. I can tell you 1 Wreck at a time 95% of the time it will get it on the first run, the other 5% the second. Salvage is very quick, at least to me. Sencnes has the key here. Salvaging looks to be intended as a team sport. Another thing that is important to note is that belt rats drop salvage at significantly higher frequencies as you move lower in system security. After factoring in all the variants of mission NPC that don't drop salvage, belt rats are about 3 times as lucrative for salvaging, when comparing level 3 missions to belt rats in 0.5 sec space. It seems to me that the best place to salvage would be in 0.4, and lower. Si non adjuvas, noces (If you're not helping, you're hurting)
Lilan Kahn Amarr ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.21 05:20:00 - [17] lvl 4 agent sysytem, probe luncher, 12 au probes lots of free slavage the best way to make isk as a newbie these days is tbh salvage Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication. http://www.sloganizer.net/en/style7,Smashing.png Signature dimensions exceeds max 400x120 dimensions allowed. Mail us if you have any questions -Eldo
Kesslan Osefice Panther's Paw Industries Ltd Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2006.12.21 06:31:00 - [18] I think salvaging itself is in a way, ment to be a stand alone profession. It reminds me of some mission runners I've met. They would run L4s all day. But they would hire on newbies and pay them in ISK to run around in a transport with some tractor beams (and have the newbie grouped) to vacume up all the loot so they didn thave to stop killing stuff. At the end of the mission the newbie hands over the stuff, and they allready have their pay from being teamed up with the mission runner (SPlit bounties). THe mission runners then keep what the want, melt/sell off the rest to make up for what the newbie sucks off in the bounty split. It isnt much more of a step for the newbie to to the salvaging as well. ___ This space for rent! ___ Yay we finally have a forum: http://pantherspaw.freehostia.com/
Fliewatuet Angelus dos Business	Posted - 2006.12.21 08:15:00 - [19] Well, there will be lots of missionrunners who will salvage their missions. Thats due to the way ccp implemented it. Looting itself makes less money than doing the mission. IF the mission runner loots, he will also salvage. Otherwise he would have to leave the wrecks behind and thats something that most ppl won't do since their feeling is that they have to clean up completely after the mission. And since the wrecks don't go pop without salvaging they will do it. Looting itself may give you perhaps 5-10M for a Vengeance 4. I need about an hour for the mission and again an hour for looting - for the mission itself its about 30-40M per hour. :) And i'm already looting in an Exequeror (before the salvage patch) and now in a hurricane (salvaging needs more highslots). Regards, Fliewatuet --
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.12.21 09:05:00 - [20] salvaging as a sub profession is and will be valuable it will require specialisation tho. I can see the break even point around 10-12m for the basic t1 rigs up to 40m for some of the t2 and other ones. 0.0 will be an attractive option over time esp given the variance in drops. It will sort itself out in the meantime sell what u can make rigs with the rest. These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views This is a disclaimer

Jacque Custeau Knights of the Minmatar Republic	Posted - 2006.12.21 18:03:00 - [21] I wanted to relay my experience and ask a question. Last night I brought down all the salvage items I had accumulated into Metropolis (Minmatar region, prices somewhat more expensive than Heimatar's Rens hub). I could build only one rig, or invest some 60M in some additional salvaged items and build two. So I ended up building 2, the cargohold optimization one and the 10% missle dmg bonuse one. I was about to travel to Rens when I thought I would ask anyone in local first if they want to buy it. I matched the Rens price (75M) for the missle damage one, and I more or less got sniped at. Someone told me it should cost less than the Pandemonium BCU because it only boosts dmg and not ROF. By the same token, the cargohold optimization one should not cost more than a cargo expander module. I am a bit miffed and disappointed at the EvE community. Its easy to sit back and say the BPOs are cheap and the salvage items are "free". Its quite another thing to buy bpo's, research them, actually train salvage up, salvage every single wreck you see, then buy what you are missing at 5 different stations and putting it all together. After the time and money I spent, I though 75M for the launcher rig and 105M for the cargohold optimization rig were fair. Because I could not get those prices, I have decided to keep them for personal use. Its likely that any future rigs I make will just be for personal use by my characters.
Block Ukx	Posted - 2006.12.21 18:16:00 - [22] Jacque, But how would you value adding an extra slot to a ship?
Exelsior Endangered Species	Posted - 2006.12.21 19:23:00 - [23] Edited by: Exelsior on 21/12/2006 19:33:03 Originally by: Block Ukx Jacque, But how would you value adding an extra slot to a ship? Hmm, I actually remember expecting being able to add slots to a ship when rigs were to come. Shame it didn't happen, would have been fun getting rid of the geddon's mid slot problem for example :P Edit: It would actually allow proper customization of a ship, as atm most of the things that rigs can do, modules can already do. Same thing for turret hardpoints and missile launcherpoints, adding those would be cool too. Of course those sorts of rigs would need to have serious drawbacks and large calibration requirements to balance them, but i think it's doable.
Jet Collins Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2006.12.21 20:15:00 - [24] When and if Rigs prices ever drop below 5-10mil people will stop salvaging. Prices will rise people will salvage again. HOwever down the raod when things I have a balanced out I would guess that standard rigs with range from 10-25 mil. They just won't be worth the effort if people are not getting a decent price for the materails. As the Mod said mission runners will not sell/make the effort if its not worth at least 50k. This will leave salvaging to the people really dedicated to it. Right now many many people are salvaging some for the profit soem just to make their own rigs. They are still a new and complex item it will be some time still before they have found there place in the market. Right now prices are high and falling. At some point they will hit rock bottom and people will stop. Eventually materails will run out prices will riase an some will start again. For those of you who where around when POS moon mining was interoduced it will be kinda like that. No Supply make millions to much supply lose isk get out some stay.... Dynamic Endeavors is now Recuiting.!! Contact me in game for deatails about the corp. Mostly a PvE corp, with Jump clones avaiale in Empire and 0.0.
Jet Collins Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2006.12.21 20:19:00 - [25] Originally by: Exelsior Edited by: Exelsior on 21/12/2006 19:33:03 Originally by: Block Ukx Jacque, But how would you value adding an extra slot to a ship? Hmm, I actually remember expecting being able to add slots to a ship when rigs were to come. Shame it didn't happen, would have been fun getting rid of the geddon's mid slot problem for example :P Edit: It would actually allow proper customization of a ship, as atm most of the things that rigs can do, modules can already do. Same thing for turret hardpoints and missile launcherpoints, adding those would be cool too. Of course those sorts of rigs would need to have serious drawbacks and large calibration requirements to balance them, but i think it's doable. They are affectily giving you extra Mid/low slots. At least I know they are for minmatar. IE many minmatar set ups require a Increased POwer grig mod now there is a rig that does the to fee up the mid slot. Also many ships have used cap rechargers or Cap batteres, now there is a rig that does that so now you can fit more EW. Dynamic Endeavors is now Recuiting.!! Contact me in game for deatails about the corp. Mostly a PvE corp, with Jump clones avaiale in Empire and 0.0.
Exelsior Endangered Species	Posted - 2006.12.21 20:20:00 - [26] Originally by: Jet Collins Originally by: Exelsior Edited by: Exelsior on 21/12/2006 19:33:03 Originally by: Block Ukx Jacque, But how would you value adding an extra slot to a ship? Hmm, I actually remember expecting being able to add slots to a ship when rigs were to come. Shame it didn't happen, would have been fun getting rid of the geddon's mid slot problem for example :P Edit: It would actually allow proper customization of a ship, as atm most of the things that rigs can do, modules can already do. Same thing for turret hardpoints and missile launcherpoints, adding those would be cool too. Of course those sorts of rigs would need to have serious drawbacks and large calibration requirements to balance them, but i think it's doable. They are affectily giving you extra Mid/low slots. At least I know they are for minmatar. IE many minmatar set ups require a Increased POwer grig mod now there is a rig that does the to fee up the mid slot. Also many ships have used cap rechargers or Cap batteres, now there is a rig that does that so now you can fit more EW. Aye, good point. Didn't think of it that way. Still though, it would be cool to be able to have extra slots or hardpoints, not just a rough equivalent
SencneS Amarr Keepers of the Holy Bagel	Posted - 2006.12.21 20:25:00 - [27] Originally by: Jacque Custeau Because I could not get those prices, I have decided to keep them for personal use. Its likely that any future rigs I make will just be for personal use by my characters. And that my friends is why Rigs will be cheap. The attitude of "If I can't sell it for 100mil I'm not selling it at all!" Everyone puts a price-tag "Time", or hold the saying "Time is Money" a little too close to home in this game. When in actuality time's only value is that set by the lowest seller, and the buyer that buys it. The simple fact is, If a buyer wants say 10,000,000 trit he is going to buy 10mil trit from 1) The cheapest, 2) the closest. They doesn't care if you took 3 weeks or 3 hours to mine 10,000,000 trit. They wants 10mil, he is going to buy 10mil. Unless you outright corner the market in something that no one else can sell or supply, time can not be used in pricing structure. Example:- Player 1) 10mil Trit at 3.75ea, 1 jump away Player 2) 10mil Trit at 2.50ea, 3 jumps away Player 1 feels his price is justified because it took him a 168 hours to mine that 10mil. Player 2 feels his price is justified because it took him 112 hours to mine that 10mil. Each Player is valuing their time at the same value - 223,214.29 ISK per hour. The buyer could give a toss about the above two statements.. Really think about it.. When you're buying stuff do you ever think to yourself.. hmm I should give this guy a break because it took him longer to make it? NO, we don't, as a buyer you simply don't care. If you think just because it took you 10 hours to collect the stuff it took to make 1 Rig gives you justification to sell it for 100mil think again. Buyers don't care how long it took you, if they want a rig they can have the option make it themselves for 1/90th the cost and a little of their own "Time".
Jet Collins Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2006.12.21 20:31:00 - [28] Originally by: Exelsior Originally by: Jet Collins Originally by: Exelsior Edited by: Exelsior on 21/12/2006 19:33:03 They are affectily giving you extra Mid/low slots. At least I know they are for minmatar. IE many minmatar set ups require a Increased POwer grig mod now there is a rig that does the to fee up the mid slot. Also many ships have used cap rechargers or Cap batteres, now there is a rig that does that so now you can fit more EW. Aye, good point. Didn't think of it that way. Still though, it would be cool to be able to have extra slots or hardpoints, not just a rough equivalent No I supose not but just think how much damage a ship can do that has 7-8 turret slots 7-8 low and than put in 3 rigs that boost Damage and Rof /me thing of Meg or Amarr BS's or maybe Hurrican. Minmatar BS's have to few low slots or turrent slots :( I wouldn't mind a rig that world convert turret to launcher slot or vise versa Dynamic Endeavors is now Recuiting.!! Contact me in game for deatails about the corp. Mostly a PvE corp, with Jump clones avaiale in Empire and 0.0.
Exelsior Endangered Species	Posted - 2006.12.21 20:41:00 - [29] Originally by: Jet Collins No I supose not but just think how much damage a ship can do that has 7-8 turret slots 7-8 low and than put in 3 rigs that boost Damage and Rof /me thing of Meg or Amarr BS's or maybe Hurrican. Minmatar BS's have to few low slots or turrent slots :( I wouldn't mind a rig that world convert turret to launcher slot or vise versa As i said though, high calibration points needed so you probably wouldn't be able to fit three, or maybe not even two, make them need 250 calibration for the slot ones, or maybe 200. I dunno, but i'm sure it's balanceable.
Amy Wang	Posted - 2006.12.21 21:12:00 - [30] Edited by: Amy Wang on 21/12/2006 21:13:18 Rigs were meant by CCP to add more diversity in ship setups. With the current prices that not really going to happen, especially for PvP setups, since its simply too expensive to be used regularly. At the current prices rigs will be as regularly used as faction items, which is sad. To adress this rig component drops need to be increased even more (factor 10 maybe) or requirements need to be cut by the same amount (e.g. 1/10 of current components). Salvaging is still profitable because you can now make and sell 10x more rigs then before. (not that factor 10 is just an example number, might need to go even further until decent rig prices are reached and they are used as regularly as they are meant to)



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