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Nice View Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.21 09:10:00 - [1] I really believe they need to fix these. Why oh why would CCP make HAM's then limit them to such crappy range?? T1(rough draft): Rockets = 9k (light missiles = 25k) HAM = 12k (heavy missiles = 65k) Torp = 85k (cruise missiles = 110K) T1 HAM should be able to hit atleast 25k with skills, it is a medium size weapon. This would not make it over powered since the range is still pretty bad and they are SLOWWWWW............ Please give HAM some loven
Chantal DeWinter	Posted - 2006.12.21 09:16:00 - [2] Ever heard of short range and long range? Give my Heavy Pulses II the range of Beams? And if you put HAMs on a Cerb you have quite some hmpf on a decent/good range. Switch to heavies if you don't like the range.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.21 09:20:00 - [3] Seem's balanced to me... More damage, limited range.... Using torp's as a comparison isn't quite 'right' theyr'e a rather screwed up version of a "short range weapon" Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Zyrla Bladestorm Minmatar Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.12.21 09:22:00 - [4] Its the rockets and especially torpedoes that have unnaturally long range . ----- It's great being Minmatar, ain't it? Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2006.12.21 09:52:00 - [5] Just nerf the torp range and the HAMs will feel much better.
velocoraptor Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.21 09:53:00 - [6] T1 torps on my alts raven with good (not perfect) skills go to, what? 110-120 km I think. That's ridiculous. Period. It's a short range weapon. I understand that torp raven does not do as much dmg as a gank-mega with neuts/ions, but the range of torps is too much. Torp flying time should be severelly reduced asap, to something like half (or even 1/4) of what it is now, so on raven they would go as far as 50 or so km, which is still a lot. SO, there you have it: HAM's are not broken, torps are Kali IS the goddess of destruction after all
Nice View Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.21 10:00:00 - [7] Originally by: Chantal DeWinter Ever heard of short range and long range? Give my Heavy Pulses II the range of Beams? And if you put HAMs on a Cerb you have quite some hmpf on a decent/good range. Switch to heavies if you don't like the range. I am NOT asking for HAM to have same range as Heavy missiles so that argument is STUPID! Also saying one ship that cost 250mil makes them good, is a dumb idea too (could say the same for ALL short range weapon classes). Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Seem's balanced to me... More damage, limited range.... Using torp's as a comparison isn't quite 'right' theyr'e a rather screwed up version of a "short range weapon" Alliaanna Short range I understand but then increase damage like other short range some more?? I mean if your going in close like a blaster, it does not have the DPS as they have or AC's Originally by: Zyrla Bladestorm Its the rockets and especially torpedoes that have unnaturally long range Other short range weapons increase in leaves, blasters increase each level by almost double the range per lvl, AC's DO increase double range per size and Pulse lasers are ALMOST double range per lvl. I am not asking for anything out of the norm for "Close-range" weapon.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.21 10:01:00 - [8] Edited by: Alliaanna Dalaii on 21/12/2006 10:02:42 Originally by: velocoraptor T1 torps on my alts raven with good (not perfect) skills go to, what? 110-120 km I think. That's ridiculous. Period. It's a short range weapon. I understand that torp raven does not do as much dmg as a gank-mega with neuts/ions, but the range of torps is too much. Torp flying time should be severelly reduced asap, to something like half (or even 1/4) of what it is now, so on raven they would go as far as 50 or so km, which is still a lot. SO, there you have it: HAM's are not broken, torps are QFT edited - To the guy above, stop moaning. You allready have the easiest weapon system in Eve to use... Thats a fairly hefty bonus all by itself ! Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Nice View Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.21 10:04:00 - [9] Originally by: velocoraptor T1 torps on my alts raven with good (not perfect) skills go to, what? 110-120 km I think. That's ridiculous. Period. It's a short range weapon. I understand that torp raven does not do as much dmg as a gank-mega with neuts/ions, but the range of torps is too much. Torp flying time should be severelly reduced asap, to something like half (or even 1/4) of what it is now, so on raven they would go as far as 50 or so km, which is still a lot. SO, there you have it: HAM's are not broken, torps are Really Both are broken. if all close range weapons were simular HAM would be 18-20k and torps would be 36-40k that would be OK with me That would Balance the "Close-range" missiles inline with all the other races "Close Range" weapons
Nice View Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.21 10:10:00 - [10] Edited by: Nice View on 21/12/2006 10:12:51 double post
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.21 10:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Nice View Originally by: velocoraptor T1 torps on my alts raven with good (not perfect) skills go to, what? 110-120 km I think. That's ridiculous. Period. It's a short range weapon. I understand that torp raven does not do as much dmg as a gank-mega with neuts/ions, but the range of torps is too much. Torp flying time should be severelly reduced asap, to something like half (or even 1/4) of what it is now, so on raven they would go as far as 50 or so km, which is still a lot. SO, there you have it: HAM's are not broken, torps are Really Both are broken. if all close range weapons were simular HAM would be 18-20k and torps would be 36-40k that would be OK with me That would Balance the "Close-range" missiles inline with all the other races "Close Range" weapons They ARE balanced inline with other systems. If you mean you want them to be identical.... WELL I want your missiles to miss I want a Missile Disruption Module See my point... different systems alltogether !!! They're fine as they are. Though Torps shouldn't be hitting out that far... Not all races HAVE a close range weapon, I would argue that that the Mega Pulse II is a mid range weapon.... Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Nice View Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.21 10:49:00 - [12] Weapons with AMMO NO SKILLS ADDED TO INCREASE RANGE M Pulse Lasers : Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I optimal range 12 km accuracy falloff 4km Add - Radio M (range bonus 60%) NOW optimal range 19.2 km accuracy falloff 6.4km M Autocannons: 425mm Medium 'Scout' Autocannon I optimal range 8 km accuracy falloff 2.4km ADD - Carbonized Lead M (range bonus 60%) NOW optimal range 12.8 km accuracy falloff 3.84km M Blasters: Modal Neutron Particle Accelerator I optimal range 3.6 km accuracy falloff 5 km ADD - Iron Charge M (range bonus 60%) NOW optimal range 5.76 km accuracy falloff 8 km Heavy Assault: Named does not effect RANGE, all same target range 8 k ADD - Wait no T1 ammo range bonus range 8k As you see all the medium have either slightly or alot more DEFAULT range.
Racuel Gallente The Royal Guard	Posted - 2006.12.21 11:31:00 - [13] Edited by: Racuel on 21/12/2006 11:34:44 Edited by: Racuel on 21/12/2006 11:32:53 WTB T1 ammo that gives bonus to falloff. And you are incorrect on the numbers on autocannons, falloff is much greater than optimal. Namely these are the correct numbers using 425mm scout AC: Optimal: 2400 Falloff: 8000 With carbonized lead loaded: Optimal: 3840 Falloff: 8000 At Falloff+optimal the gun will have a 50% chance to hit, which means at 11840 the gun has 50% chance to hit, and the average dps the gun does, asuming no hit-penalties and no resistances on target, with carbonized lead is 14.373, AND at optimal+falloff (remember that 11840?) it will do a whooping 7.186 dps. HAMs on the other hand do (if my number-crunching is correct) 15.625 dps with an arbalest launcher, no skill and no resistance. It is guaranteed to hit. You see where im going? For the advantage of not being able to miss a target, you sacrifice your range.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.21 11:34:00 - [14] Yes, I see people running around with iron ammo in their blasterboats all the time . If you're going to compare range, compare range using the high damage t1 ammo or at least the -25% range ammo. That's the comparable ammo in damage you know, seeing how Missile boats have the tank+gank option the turret ships dont have, and have no issues tracking ** either. Go from there, then compare, then realise HAM's are fine. Old blog Originally by:** Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
Dahak2150 Chaos Monkeys	Posted - 2006.12.21 11:45:00 - [15] I almost stopped reading when you used radio. Nobody uses radio. Ever. Let alone in pulse boats. You need to look at multifreak or gamma, both are -% range. I definately stopped when you loaded iron. You have no clue. If you're on IE, pretend this is transparent while you get a better browser.
Nice View Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.21 11:51:00 - [16] Originally by: Dahak2150 I almost stopped reading when you used radio. Nobody uses radio. Ever. Let alone in pulse boats. You need to look at multifreak or gamma, both are -% range. I definately stopped when you loaded iron. You have no clue. I know noone uses them I am making a point LIKE EVERYONE else is here. The Point is NOT what you USE but OPTIONS! If you want range you can, even if stupid. The problem is almost everyone I know tried HAM's and since the range is too limited for the ship types they stopped using. All I want is a SLIGHT range increase not some major reach-out and touch next system weapon.
dot me	Posted - 2006.12.21 11:55:00 - [17] let us compare two different weapon systems just well because we can. let us forget that in comparing torps you are talking about torps fired from a raven that has a 50% boost to missile velocity. let us forget that turet weapon range is an exact figure while missile range is a "hypotetic" term since you can teoreticly have 200km range but not hit a ship 10 km away. let us forget the fact that missiles fly in straight lines, beeing adjusted every second or so, meaning they can and DO miss moving targets(defenders anyone?) before they run out of fuel or target disapears. and yes let as also mention the untrue fact "THEY NEVER MISS" unlike my turets just to be on the safe side. let's all just do that because it makes us all warm and fuzzy. THEY ARE DIFFERENT. STOP COMPARING THEM. someone should nail that on your forehead.
Scordite	Posted - 2006.12.21 12:23:00 - [18] If you compare the range difference between blaster and raliguns with the range difference between pulses and beams, you can clearly see that blasters need a lot more range as well, amirite? Also, the list of ranges without skills taken into account (and ammo no one uses) is funny, since missiles have two "optimal" increasing skills that feed off eachother, making each one greater due to the other one, while the guns used in the comparison have one-point-something range increasing skill (depending on the relation between optimal and falloff for each one) that do not affect each other. Maybe you should start considering fitting a midslot speedmod on your HAM ship like all other short range boats have to. You can probably even get away with just an AB in most cases. ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Auron Shadowbane	Posted - 2006.12.22 00:22:00 - [19] halv the range of current hams. introduce a ham missile with 4times the range and half the damage. ohh and plz remove tracking from turrets and make em hit 100% at fallof+optimal. period.
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.12.22 00:48:00 - [20] When I post in threads like this, I get flamed. Since you already know what I'm going to say (AND since most of it has been said already), I'm not going to bother. Good day! It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Imode Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.22 01:30:00 - [21] Don't try to understand missiles. They make no sense. :) They don't even have any uniform characteristics among the different sizes: Rockets - easy to fit, short range, fast rof, low damage, high precision HAM - hard to fit, short range, fast rof, low damage, same precision as heavies Torpedoes - hard to fit, 'short' range, slow rof, high damage, low precision Standards - hard to fit, long range, low rof, high damage, 'low' precision Heavies - easy to fit, long range, low rof, high damage, same precision as HAM Cruises - easy to fit, long range, high rof, low damage, high precision It's all borked. :) ____________________________ My sig, therefore I am.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.22 04:26:00 - [22] Originally by: Nice View I really believe they need to fix these. Why oh why would CCP make HAM's then limit them to such crappy range?? T1(rough draft): Rockets = 9k (light missiles = 25k) HAM = 12k (heavy missiles = 65k) Torp = 85k (cruise missiles = 110K) T1 HAM should be able to hit atleast 25k with skills, it is a medium size weapon. This would not make it over powered since the range is still pretty bad and they are SLOWWWWW............ Please give HAM some loven There's no way you're hitting 9km with rockets and then only 12km with HAMs. Either rockets are being affect by skills, or your math is wrong. With a velocity bonus, you can get a theoretical max range of 11km or so on rockets, and 22km on HAMs. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.22 04:28:00 - [23] Originally by: velocoraptor T1 torps on my alts raven with good (not perfect) skills go to, what? 110-120 km I think. That's ridiculous. Period. It's a short range weapon. I understand that torp raven does not do as much dmg as a gank-mega with neuts/ions, but the range of torps is too much. Give Torps a base speed of 2km/s or so then? People often fail to realize torps, while a long range, shortrange weapon, have horrifically slow speed, and in very few situations will you ever be useful at even 50km range with them. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Thaddeus Brutor Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2006.12.22 04:32:00 - [24] Missile DMGRoFVelFlightDPSRangePGCPU Rocket 254225026.254500415 Standard 7515375055.0018750825 Assault 7512375056.25187505035 Heavy 1501537501010.003750010050 H.Assault 10082250312.50675012045 Cruise 3002237502013.6475000125060 Siege 4502412503018.7537500175080 I'm praying that pastes correctly. Anyway--that's the raw, unskilled numbers for the various launchers. I'm not going to debate/attack/defend the range of the HAM. I'm just going to point out that the range seems too low when comparing it to the closest match, Rockets vs Standard. Rockets take up half the PG, have 24% of the Standard Launcher's range, and inflict 25% more DPS. HAM's take up 20% more PG than Heavy, have 18% of the Heavy Launcher's range, and inflict 25% more DPS. So... it feels "off" I guess. Just seems too short range for a cruiser weapon. Even a medium autocannon using EMP rounds hits out to 9 km. (And that AC's damage with 50% falloff is still comparable to the missiles, so I'll leave that alone.) I like my Hurricane fitted as an AC-boat. Since I already have to get to close range to use the AC's, I might as well fit H.Assault over Heavy. When I first saw H.Assaults, I had assumed it would be a fast firing Heavy launcher with BS fitting requirements, that used Heavy Missiles, actually--mirroring the Assault Launcher. I think the current implementation of the HAM is sloppy, and well... sucks. But anyway... the Rockets have 24% of Standard range, Torps have 50% of Cruiser range, seems like HAM's should be about 37.5%ish of Heavy range, or 14ish km. Still really freaking close, but cruiser-ish. But with maxxed skills it will get out to like 17km, so okay, I guess. :) I'm not really that wrapped up in this, I'll fit HAM's on my AC-boat, and skill up enough for them to have the same range as my opt+fall for the AC's. But it's kinda silly to me just how much missile skill is required for that. :P
Andrea Jaruwalski Caldari Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.12.22 05:12:00 - [25] Using silly examples, silly ammo or comparing different types of weaponry without giving the proper skills and bonuses of "Ships" using them is quite stupid. If you're going to argue, moan or start a debate about these "issues" you're experiencing, maybe you should consider thinking 10 minutes before posting 200 words of complete useless information. Infact, T1 Torps don't go over 100km for whoever posted that garbage. Comparing Turrets and missiles always, for 3 years been retarded. The damage of HAM is nice, the range is good and used in ships that have bonuses for range or using the T2 variant (that DO have good range) is a good way to get a clue about your moaning subject. Now, Go study your race and stop moaning about your newly found module. It seems Caldari ship users or missile ship users have a hard understanding when it comes to actually needing to fit an AB/MWD or tackling gear on their ship. Oh wow, i can't hit at range and do fairly superior damage? Moan on the forum, quick.
Maxamus Rex Caldari Nevada Space Salvage	Posted - 2006.12.22 06:01:00 - [26] Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski Using silly examples, silly ammo or comparing different types of weaponry without giving the proper skills and bonuses of "Ships" using them is quite stupid. If you're going to argue, moan or start a debate about these "issues" you're experiencing, maybe you should consider thinking 10 minutes before posting 200 words of complete useless information. Infact, T1 Torps don't go over 100km for whoever posted that garbage. Comparing Turrets and missiles always, for 3 years been retarded. The damage of HAM is nice, the range is good and used in ships that have bonuses for range or using the T2 variant (that DO have good range) is a good way to get a clue about your moaning subject. Now, Go study your race and stop moaning about your newly found module. It seems Caldari ship users or missile ship users have a hard understanding when it comes to actually needing to fit an AB/MWD or tackling gear on their ship. Oh wow, i can't hit at range and do fairly superior damage? Moan on the forum, quick. sorry but in my raven with bs 4 and all missile skills at 4 my t1 torps go 110k. it takes a damn long time to hit something that far out but they do get there after a while. Millions for defence not one penny in trubute
jbob2000 Gallente Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.22 06:11:00 - [27] waaaahhhh i cant sit still and do lots of damage from any distance without thinking WAAAAAHHH
Andrea Jaruwalski Caldari Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.12.22 06:12:00 - [28] Actually, They don't. And It's 103km. Now in any pvp related situation using the 103km you get out of torpedos, taking over 40 seconds to travel down to a target is rather useless. If you wish to add a point, maybe you should give it from a PVP'er point of view and not the "Npcer not hitting as far as he wishes to make more damage on his PVE fitted ship".
DiuxDium Casting Shadows	Posted - 2006.12.22 06:17:00 - [29] Who the **** fires torps from 100km away and expects them to hit anything? If you nerf a weapon system on the basis of PvE, you've got serious issues. To the gunners: Missiles and Turrents are not balanced around each other. That's all there is to it. To the OP: HAM's are just fine, caldari just need a fast cruiser with the PG to fit hams, and it'd be alright. Getting into HAM range with a Drake is kinda...hilarious? This is to say, the caracal needs +1 mid slot, -crapton of mass. +~20-40m/s. As well as a small boost to PG and a decent boost to CPU to have a chance of fitting. 40cpu BCUII's 4tw.
DiuxDium Casting Shadows	Posted - 2006.12.22 06:22:00 - [30] Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski Originally by: DiuxDium This is to say, the caracal needs +1 mid slot, -crapton of mass. +~20-40m/s. As well as a small boost to PG and a decent boost to CPU to have a chance of fitting. 40cpu BCUII's 4tw. No, it doesn't. This is just your request for: - A Cheap ship that cannot fit or benefit from the range bonus it gets for the HAM. It's not enough for you, so you need more CPU to have ganking power on your 5m ship. Seriously, bad request for your own little greed. I fly gallente. I'd insult you now, but I'm laughing to hard.
Andrea Jaruwalski Caldari Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.12.22 06:28:00 - [31] Originally by: DiuxDium Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski Originally by: DiuxDium This is to say, the caracal needs +1 mid slot, -crapton of mass. +~20-40m/s. As well as a small boost to PG and a decent boost to CPU to have a chance of fitting. 40cpu BCUII's 4tw. No, it doesn't. This is just your request for: - A Cheap ship that cannot fit or benefit from the range bonus it gets for the HAM. It's not enough for you, so you need more CPU to have ganking power on your 5m ship. Seriously, bad request for your own little greed. I fly gallente. I'd insult you now, but I'm laughing to hard. I'd laugh but i'm too busy typing an insult back for your ignorant request for a ship you don't even fly. Do you even read yourself? Hi, I fly gallente but i will suggest to make another Ship i don't even fly a bit easy to fit so i can perform better with it. No? Well, Go on and laugh, pick up a mirror and realise you're the one you're making fun of.
jbob2000 Gallente Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.22 06:30:00 - [32] Originally by: DiuxDium ...Turrents... !~#@%^%$&^$@# TURRETS TURRETS TURRETS!!!!!!!!
DiuxDium Casting Shadows	Posted - 2006.12.22 06:32:00 - [33] Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski Originally by: DiuxDium Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski Originally by: DiuxDium This is to say, the caracal needs +1 mid slot, -crapton of mass. +~20-40m/s. As well as a small boost to PG and a decent boost to CPU to have a chance of fitting. 40cpu BCUII's 4tw. No, it doesn't. This is just your request for: - A Cheap ship that cannot fit or benefit from the range bonus it gets for the HAM. It's not enough for you, so you need more CPU to have ganking power on your 5m ship. Seriously, bad request for your own little greed. I fly gallente. I'd insult you now, but I'm laughing to hard. I'd laugh but i'm too busy typing an insult back for your ignorant request for a ship you don't even fly. Do you even read yourself? Hi, I fly gallente but i will suggest to make another Ship i don't even fly a bit easy to fit so i can perform better with it. No? Well, Go on and laugh, pick up a mirror and realise you're the one you're making fun of. "I fly Gallente" does not equate to "I've never flown caldari". If you want I can post about 100 some odd kill-mails involving me and a Caldari Cruiser. You're a bafoon if you don't realize the fitting issues that occur due to the 40cpu of BCUII's. If you weren't talking straight out of your ass, you'd also realize the relativly high-mass of the Caracal makes AB\MWD less than pretty. Add to that the mid-slot req to both tackle and tank, and we have a serious issue. Closing range with Caldari is very difficult, this has alot to do with having both the slowest, and largest ships in game currently. Before you randomly post your stupidity in my general direction, take a look at this. Cruisers now you read every last bit from those links. When you're done, come back and lecture me about "How much you know about a ship you've obviously never flown". How's that buccko?
jbob2000 Gallente Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.22 06:37:00 - [34] Originally by: DiuxDium "I fly Gallente" does not equate to "I've never flown caldari". If you want I can post about 100 some odd kill-mails involving me and a Caldari Cruiser. You're a bafoon if you don't realize the fitting issues that occur due to the 40cpu of BCUII's. If you weren't talking straight out of your ass, you'd also realize the relativly high-mass of the Caracal makes AB\MWD less than pretty. Add to that the mid-slot req to both tackle and tank, and we have a serious issue. Closing range with Caldari is very difficult, this has alot to do with having both the slowest, and largest ships in game currently. Before you randomly post your stupidity in my general direction, take a look at this. Cruisers now you read every last bit from those links. When you're done, come back and lecture me about "How much you know about a ship you've obviously never flown". How's that buccko? uhh.... missiles are pretty short range... unless you use them for pve... which happens to be 95% of the caldari ship users
Andrea Jaruwalski Caldari Angel Deep Corporation	Posted - 2006.12.22 06:37:00 - [35] Edited by: Andrea Jaruwalski on 22/12/2006 06:38:29 Originally by: DiuxDium Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski Originally by: DiuxDium Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski Originally by: DiuxDium This is to say, the caracal needs +1 mid slot, -crapton of mass. +~20-40m/s. As well as a small boost to PG and a decent boost to CPU to have a chance of fitting. 40cpu BCUII's 4tw. No, it doesn't. This is just your request for: - A Cheap ship that cannot fit or benefit from the range bonus it gets for the HAM. It's not enough for you, so you need more CPU to have ganking power on your 5m ship. Seriously, bad request for your own little greed. I fly gallente. I'd insult you now, but I'm laughing to hard. I'd laugh but i'm too busy typing an insult back for your ignorant request for a ship you don't even fly. Do you even read yourself? Hi, I fly gallente but i will suggest to make another Ship i don't even fly a bit easy to fit so i can perform better with it. No? Well, Go on and laugh, pick up a mirror and realise you're the one you're making fun of. "I fly Gallente" does not equate to "I've never flown caldari". If you want I can post about 100 some odd kill-mails involving me and a Caldari Cruiser. You're a bafoon if you don't realize the fitting issues that occur due to the 40cpu of BCUII's. If you weren't talking straight out of your ass, you'd also realize the relativly high-mass of the Caracal makes AB\MWD less than pretty. Add to that the mid-slot req to both tackle and tank, and we have a serious issue. Closing range with Caldari is very difficult, this has alot to do with having both the slowest, and largest ships in game currently. Before you randomly post your stupidity in my general direction, take a look at this. Cruisers now you read every last bit from those links. When you're done, come back and lecture me about "How much you know about a ship you've obviously never flown". How's that buccko? Well other than about 20 words that are not commonly used and mean nothing to me which you used in your topic i will reply by: - High mass is a Caldari thing. - Not being able to fit a fully T2 fitting on a cruiser that is worth 5m is normal. - Massive ammount of crap to make your point valid = failed. Quote: Add to that the mid-slot req to both tackle and tank, and we have a serious issue. Sorry, you're flying gallente. 'We' isn't you or concerning gallente since this is about Caldari ships or weaponry. Remember? Back to your room.
Nordvargr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.12.22 06:40:00 - [36] Ahhh I was waiting for this. Caldari get a close range weapon and can't just sit still and shoot at things anymore. I was hoping more for taking on HAM fitted drakes and caracals with no propulsion mods in-game, but reading the whining on the forums is also very pleasurable. Poor, poor caldari.
Nybbas Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.22 07:54:00 - [37] uhmmmm caracals kick major ass as is... yeah sure turret users can use lower damage ammo for better ranges (which for any close range ship is a joke) you can pick damage types. stop whining. Not to mention CALDARI GET TWO SKILLS THAT TRAINED TO LEVEL FIVE GIVE THEM MORE THAN A 100% INCREASE TO RANGE TURRET USERS GET TWO SKILLS THAT WHEN TRAINED TO LEVEL FIVE BARELY GIVES THEM A 25% BOOST TO THEIR MAX RANGE. this is fair how?
Halciform Gallente Star Kingdom of Manticore Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.22 08:37:00 - [38] "Fair" mean what? Its just no same. For range, turrets have modules boosting range...for low and mid slots. Missiles have none...that could make balance. For HAM fits...use drake and hope you get in range
Zyrla Bladestorm Minmatar Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.12.22 08:52:00 - [39] Originally by: Halciform "Fair" mean what? Its just no same. For range, turrets have modules boosting range...for low and mid slots. Missiles have none...that could make balance. For HAM fits...use drake and hope you get in range WTB mod that increases falloff! . ----- It's great being Minmatar, ain't it? Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Zxepa	Posted - 2006.12.22 09:43:00 - [40] And i ask myself "How does every caldari thread start out as"? "W3 N33DZ MOR RANG PLZ MOR DPS MOR EZ MODE MOR TUX111! WE R PLZ GET MOR" STFU?! You've gotten EVERYTHING you've whined for! plz we need a fl33t shipz plz kekeke - Tux: Heres a Rohk plz tux we n33d bax our 7th tp 4 teh drake - Tux: Done plz we n33d a medium sized munition dat spewz mor DPS den chuck norris - Tux: I lurve you guys, heres a HAM plz teh damgi3 rigz for meesls cost 2 much kalibur tux plz cut dat inhalfz - Tux: :D! done You see, you WOULD whine about range because you've never had to step out of your 89km sanctuary before. Yes, like the rest of eve, taste the power of the t2 neutron brutix Enjoy your new range. Because caldari is special-ed mode.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.22 10:16:00 - [41] Originally by: Zxepa And i ask myself "How does every caldari thread start out as"? "W3 N33DZ MOR RANG PLZ MOR DPS MOR EZ MODE MOR TUX111! WE R PLZ GET MOR" STFU?! You've gotten EVERYTHING you've whined for! plz we need a fl33t shipz plz kekeke - Tux: Heres a Rohk plz tux we n33d bax our 7th tp 4 teh drake - Tux: Done plz we n33d a medium sized munition dat spewz mor DPS den chuck norris - Tux: I lurve you guys, heres a HAM plz teh damgi3 rigz for meesls cost 2 much kalibur tux plz cut dat inhalfz - Tux: :D! done You see, you WOULD whine about range because you've never had to step out of your 89km sanctuary before. Yes, like the rest of eve, taste the power of the t2 neutron brutix Enjoy your new range. Because caldari is special-ed mode. First read: Boah! Lol rofl Second read: Hmm Somehow I did not find a single inaccuracy in those statements. The range/damage/fitting for launchers never followed a logical pattern. The HAM launchers fit perfectly in there. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Phant Zon Minmatar No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.12.23 04:56:00 - [42] I dont know about Caldari, but as a Matar pilot these are wonderful little launchers. They fit nicely on AC cruisers when one doesnt have the room for heavies or nos, and are a useful secondary weapon system.
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.12.23 06:22:00 - [43] becuase they drake is SUCH a agile little thing.
DrEiak Amarr IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.23 06:35:00 - [44] heres an idea, stop using missles all together cause i hate missle users who whine about their weapons. Try using turrets for a little while and learn how to fly a real ship :P (no insult to missle users but seriously, anyone who thinks missles are underpowered needs to start flying amarr and minmataar ships)
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.23 06:47:00 - [45] "T1 HAM should be able to hit atleast 25k with skills, it is a medium size weapon. " Denied. Nearly 15 km with skills before any possible ship bonus is applied is more than enough range for weapon with damage output of the heavy blasters...
Larkonis Trassler g guild	Posted - 2006.12.23 08:18:00 - [46] HAY GUYZ! I think a lot of people are forgetting something here... Missiles are not guns. It's like saying ZOMG THIS CHEESE DOESN'T TASTE LIEK CHALK! WHAT IS GOING ON! Why don't we just normalise all races weapons and ammo and keep the pretty graphics? HAM launchers could maybe do with a bit of an adjustment with regards to fitting... but hey, suck it up, adapt improvise and overcome (and for the record I am a missile user). All weapons have their own fitting issues and problems. People are just upset that the promised Uber HAMs have turned out... balanced. ------------ Crow Squad... An Audio and Visual Joygasm by Larkonis Trassler
Tasty Burger	Posted - 2006.12.23 08:34:00 - [47] Originally by: Nybbas uhmmmm caracals kick major ass as is... yeah sure turret users can use lower damage ammo for better ranges (which for any close range ship is a joke) you can pick damage types. stop whining. Not to mention CALDARI GET TWO SKILLS THAT TRAINED TO LEVEL FIVE GIVE THEM MORE THAN A 100% INCREASE TO RANGE TURRET USERS GET TWO SKILLS THAT WHEN TRAINED TO LEVEL FIVE BARELY GIVES THEM A 25% BOOST TO THEIR MAX RANGE. this is fair how? QFT. The missile skills giving 10% is pretty lame... Lets not speak of the javelin HAMs, btw... those are just ridiculous ***-takers when it comes to range and damage. Anyway, if missiles take ooohhh so long to reach their target, and are thus 'useless', surely you caldari wouldn't mind if the range was reduced by a large amount? - It's great being Minmatar, ain't it?*
2SecondsTilMidnight	Posted - 2006.12.23 08:53:00 - [48] This thread makes me wish I wasn't a missle user... its a friggen SHORT RANGE weapon!! You want to get in range? Take 1-2 slots off of your mid slots (gasp) and fit an ab, mwd, or webber. You want higher damage with a decent range then use fury HMs or jav HAMS. fury HMs are actually higher dps than jav HAMs, but shoot what you want.
Riho Red Wrath Exquisite Malevolance	Posted - 2006.12.23 09:56:00 - [49] Originally by: Nice View I really believe they need to fix these. Why oh why would CCP make HAM's then limit them to such crappy range?? T1(rough draft): Rockets = 9k (light missiles = 25k) HAM = 12k (heavy missiles = 65k) Torp = 85k (cruise missiles = 110K) T1 HAM should be able to hit atleast 25k with skills, it is a medium size weapon. This would not make it over powered since the range is still pretty bad and they are SLOWWWWW............ Please give HAM some loven no love needed.... close range missiles :/
Riho Red Wrath Exquisite Malevolance	Posted - 2006.12.23 10:00:00 - [50] Originally by: Audri Fisher becuase they drake is SUCH a agile little thing. guess u never flown a ferox before revelations...
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.23 12:20:00 - [51] Originally by: Nice View Weapons with AMMO NO SKILLS ADDED TO INCREASE RANGE And this exactly makes this little list completly useless. Missiles get an 125% range boost from 2 skills (rank 2 and rank 4) Turrets get a 25% range boost from 2 skills (rank 2 and rank 5)

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