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Fix low sec? Stabs, gatecamps, local and law enforcement

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Baudolino Gallente Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.21 11:22:00 - [1] Firstly- i am indeed implying that something is wrong with low-sec. Case: changes done and intended, reduce interest in low-sec. More interest needs to be generated.. "I want to spend my time killing both the wary and unwary. I enjoy getting mails where people threaten to leave the game because i destroyed everything they have. Taking other peoples money, ransoming, extortion etc. Right now low-sec sucks and the vast empty space between targets is boring" Bakcground: The sec status systems implies both a lvl of security and a vested political interest from the the different factions in a given system. Low-sec is by far the most unsafe and unregulated space in game (my speculation). 1. Stabs Nerfing stabs was maybe needed, but i disagree with the manner in which it was done. Any carebears and mission runners left for high sec space when the nerf was implemented. While the nerf forced PvPers to fit like men the adverse effect was a great reduction in the low-sec populace. The nerf should have made it more difficult for PvPers to fit stabs, but attempt to keep the adverse effect for miners and NPCers to a minimum. 2. Removing local There are discussions about removing local for the benefit of constellation channels instead. I believe this is another mistake that will further reduce the low-sec population. I would keep local in empire regulated space, but use constellation channels in 0.0 (it should be up to the sovereign what quality of communications are available to the locals) 3. Gatecamps Gatecamps are lazy ass bull** and i won`t do it. Furthermore they also adversly affect the low-sec population. ALL sentry guns should do 100% more damage and all gates should have 1 additional gun. Range on all sentries should be doubled. The idea is to promote skirmish and mobile warfare, teamwork and adaptation. 4. Law enforcement The devs are talking about escalating paths and i have a similar idea for law-enforcement. I presented this in the ideas discussion thread about a year ago.. a) when someone is killed it gets presented on the local billboard as a news flash. b) when n people are killed it gets presented on the new across the constellation- concord representatives is asked for a comment... c) n + x killed and the news goes regionwide. Local businessmenn (and whatnot) deman something is done- concord intervenes and camps the gate in the system for X hours d) if you kill someone during concord intervention- concord will hunt you. Mind you though- you should be able to fight concord and attempt to flee the system. This escalating path is a reflection of the fact the low-sec IS regulated space and that the owning factions have a vested economic and political interest to protect. In ending:** The intent of the post is to make low-sec an interesting place to be without having to put tons of arkonor in every belt or officer spawns in space. I`d like low-sec space to be a vibrant place where anyone can make a living without a retarded risk/reward ratio. Low-sec would still be dangerous and hopefully i`d get alot more fun out of the game then i do now. These changes would NOT make PvP too hard and is NOT giving in to carebears. It`s making low-sec more balanced, reflecting of it`s true status as regulated space and maybe giving more poeple reasons for and interest in living there. Giving ME more people to kill..
Cheese999 Minmatar Spitefully Targeting Foolishly Underskilled The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.12.21 11:31:00 - [2] It would be interesting to have roving gank blobs chased across the constelations by the faction navys. I like this idea, it encourages farming of carebears, as opposed to gankage and general anarchy. We have 0.0 for that... Hell, it would make the Anit-Pirates life easier, constelation wide news flashes guiding them straight to the bad guys, faction navy backup etc. Would certainly stir the pot a bit. ----- There is no Spoon Minmatar: Bending over for Tux since RmR Originally by: Outa Rileau bring a nosdomi to a fleet, and your fc will most likely call you primary.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.21 11:49:00 - [3] No Lowsec doesn not need it's risks minimising, It simply needs the rewards to be improved to justify the current risk. Which could be done by... #Allowing upto and not beyond 500k battleship spawns. #Ore's along the lines of Dark Ochre #Increase in sentry DPS, but a slightly lowered tracking to allow smaller vessals to still operate thier. #Some sort of benefit to Manufacturing in lowsec... (god knows what, I dont carebear) Fixed Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Nero Scuro Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2006.12.21 12:08:00 - [4] So basically you want to be perfectly safe in low-sec? Remove gatecamps, give you your WCS back, and keep the free never-sleeping, never-faltering, ever-watchful eye that is local there to protect you? You are playing the wrong game. Low-sec is supposed to be dangerous. What it isn't supposed to be (but currently is) is not worth the effort vs the danger. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.21 12:09:00 - [5] Originally by: Baudolino 1. Stabs Nerfing stabs was maybe needed, but i disagree with the manner in which it was done. Any carebears and mission runners left for high sec space when the nerf was implemented. While the nerf forced PvPers to fit like men the adverse effect was a great reduction in the low-sec populace. The nerf should have made it more difficult for PvPers to fit stabs, but attempt to keep the adverse effect for miners and NPCers to a minimum. .. Die !! They didn't leave for high-sec.. lowsec is swarming with life. Both pirates & Carebears, And now with the Scan-probe nerf most mission ***s who ran off are now back again. Alliaanna** DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Kyozoku Loot	Posted - 2006.12.21 12:34:00 - [6] The stab nerf only affected pvpers. I still encounter many miners and mission runners with multiple stabs.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2006.12.21 12:58:00 - [7] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii No Lowsec doesn not need it's risks minimising, It simply needs the rewards to be improved to justify the current risk. Which could be done by... #Allowing upto and not beyond 500k battleship spawns. #Ore's along the lines of Dark Ochre #Increase in sentry DPS, but a slightly lowered tracking to allow smaller vessals to still operate thier. #Some sort of benefit to Manufacturing in lowsec... (god knows what, I dont carebear) Fixed Alliaanna When will you people learn? Risk Vs Reward is BS to an empire player. They want nothing to do with it. The only way to force these people out to low-sec is do away with mission and any ore above veld. Thank god CCP is alot smarter then you, or we would be playing with 3k people again. Lets increase the 'reward' in low sec, you say. Why cause you want some easy money also? I beleave CCP has balanced this game to please both type of players, both PvP'ers and PvE'ers. Can we help it if most of the players who play this game are PvE'ers, in noob corps, that dont want to play with you? Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.21 13:08:00 - [8] Originally by: Roshan longshot Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii No Lowsec doesn not need it's risks minimising, It simply needs the rewards to be improved to justify the current risk. Which could be done by... #Allowing upto and not beyond 500k battleship spawns. #Ore's along the lines of Dark Ochre #Increase in sentry DPS, but a slightly lowered tracking to allow smaller vessals to still operate thier. #Some sort of benefit to Manufacturing in lowsec... (god knows what, I dont carebear) Fixed Alliaanna When will you people learn? Risk Vs Reward is BS to an empire player. They want nothing to do with it. The only way to force these people out to low-sec is do away with mission and any ore above veld. Thank god CCP is alot smarter then you, or we would be playing with 3k people again. Lets increase the 'reward' in low sec, you say. Why cause you want some easy money also? I beleave CCP has balanced this game to please both type of players, both PvP'ers and PvE'ers. Can we help it if most of the players who play this game are PvE'ers, in noob corps, that dont want to play with you? Yes, More reward = Greater target density. And um... Yes they can, And they have tried in the past and will more than likely try again. Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Meenu Joshi	Posted - 2006.12.21 13:32:00 - [9] Move to a different part of low-sec/0.0. There's plenty of targets elsewhere and we're doing fine after the patch. Maybe you're a nubber o0 NB - Yeah, this is an alt, I'm too lazy to change to my main.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.21 13:37:00 - [10] Originally by: Meenu Joshi Move to a different part of low-sec/0.0. There's plenty of targets elsewhere and we're doing fine after the patch. Maybe you're a nubber o0 NB - Yeah, this is an alt, I'm too lazy to change to my main. Was that at me ? Lowsec has plenty of targets yes... your point ? Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Xsag Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.12.21 13:42:00 - [11] Originally by: Nero Scuro So basically you want to be perfectly safe in low-sec? Remove gatecamps, give you your WCS back, and keep the free never-sleeping, never-faltering, ever-watchful eye that is local there to protect you? You are playing the wrong game. Low-sec is supposed to be dangerous. What it isn't supposed to be (but currently is) is not worth the effort vs the danger. while i agree with YOUR comments at the same time you must see that what he is suggesting is a way of making low sec busier than it currently is - we all know its pretty desolate most of the time (does anyone deny that???), rather than just rant the same reply that we see time and time again why not modify his suggestions into something that you might find acceptable - i am a nub i openly admit that and very rarely venture into lowsec but when i do the vast majority of time it is extremely quiet....... just a thought not flaming anyone just trying to make this thread constructive rather than the same old flame war pvp / anti pvp camps xsag ~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
Baudolino Gallente Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.21 13:50:00 - [12] Nero scuro - I`m not sure you actually read my post.. Aliaanna - I`m not talking about a vast reduction in the risk of maneuvering in low-sec space. I`ve been playing this game for more then 3.5 years- hunted people all over EVE. For the better part of a year now- i`ve been pre-occupied with ganking in low-sec on the border of 0.0- this is how i make my living in EVE. EvE has changed and will continue to change. It`s not the hardcore PvP game i started playing, which is fine by me. I think the difference in goals adds depth. My point is that low-sec is too far on the lawless side to warrant any real interest from carebears. This gives me less people to kill. I want PvP - others want to haul, mine rat or whatever. I think that the "rewards versus system sec status" are balanced in a good way and see no need to change this. What i seek is a change to the mechanics of low-sec space that will maintain risk, while changing the qualities of the risk. Make it more interesting for everyone to live in and operate in low-sec without vastly reducing risk or resorting vast rewards.
Muran Corrod	Posted - 2006.12.21 14:29:00 - [13] Originally by: Nero Scuro You are playing the wrong game. Low-sec is supposed to be dangerous. What it isn't supposed to be (but currently is) is not worth the effort vs the danger. The problem is, lowsec is only dangerous to some kinds of player and not others. Its not dangerous to pirates/gankers/griefers, its ONLY dangerous to Miners, traders, and other industrialists (to a lesser degree mission runners) Whining that lowsec is supposed to be dangerous while belonging to a group that lowsec is NOT dangerous for is massively hypocritical IMO
Puupuu mUfFiN fAcToRy Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.21 14:40:00 - [14] Originally by: Muran Corrod Its not dangerous to pirates/gankers/griefers, its ONLY dangerous to Miners, traders, and other industrialists (to a lesser degree mission runners) Just curious.... Why is lowsec not dangerous to pirates? They don't even have sentry guns on their side? Oh, and merry christmas everyone, let's hope the santa claus drops good loot!
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.21 14:49:00 - [15] How is lowsec NOT dangerous to pirates ? There's no code of honour amonst pirate corps you know... we do kill each other as well as carebears. In fact it's easier going after the pirates as there's no criminal flagging !! Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Sun Win Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2006.12.21 15:02:00 - [16] Edited by: Sun Win on 21/12/2006 15:03:40 Whenever I read complaints on the Eve forums about the status of low sec I begin to wonder if I'm playing a different game from everyone else. The Eve I'm playing has a tonne of targets in Low Sec space, with groups of other pirates, carebears and miners peppered all over the place, not to mention anti-pirates and the occasional alliance pilot passing through between empire and 0.0. Last night I spent a few hours hunting with two gangs of 6-8 people. At the end of the night, my share of the loot was around 33 million ISK, meaning that we scooped around 231 million ISK in loot and before anyone asks, no none of these ships were blown up at gates and yes, some of the fights were fair. If you are a pirate having trouble finding targets, I suggest that you move. Revelations gave everyone in Eve a set of instas for the entire cluster. This is as much a benefit to pirates as to everyone else. Set a destination that's like 20 low sec jumps out and just roam. You never know what you're going to find out there. So I guess this is a vote for "Low Sec seems fine to me" New to Eve? Learn to Fly - join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Baudolino Gallente Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.21 16:47:00 - [17] I`ve edited my original post with some additions to better clarify why i`m posting. I`m not saying there are no targets in low-sec. I`m saying there are way too few and the levels have been dropping continuously for some time. with revelations i felt the trend not only continue, but also cement itself in the new mechanics. There are good reasons to increase the population of low-sec, but with the current ratio of pirates vs carebears it`s a loosing battle. it`s been a long time since i could ransom BS owner at ship cost and i miss it. Read this as part of a conservationist debate and you`ll better understand my viewpoints..
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.21 17:06:00 - [18] No targets in low-sec because of the stabnerf? Jebus. You should go out more. [OMG! SMASH!]
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.12.21 17:44:00 - [19] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii No Lowsec doesn not need it's risks minimising, It simply needs the rewards to be improved to justify the current risk. Which could be done by... #Allowing upto and not beyond 500k battleship spawns. #Ore's along the lines of Dark Ochre #Increase in sentry DPS, but a slightly lowered tracking to allow smaller vessals to still operate thier. #Some sort of benefit to Manufacturing in lowsec... (god knows what, I dont carebear) Fixed Alliaanna Signed. The only substantial thing I have to add is # Fix bounty hunting. Getting Concord involved in LowSec like the OP suggests is way too NPC-driven for my tastes. Put tools in the hands of the players, not police-drones. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Balor Rand Caldari Continuum Rift	Posted - 2006.12.21 18:44:00 - [20] Quote: Oh, and merry christmas everyone, let's hope the santa claus drops good loot! scans the system and comes across Santa 01. Warps to the location. Runs a quick scan of Santa 01 and decides to intercept. Locks Santa 01 and activates missile launchers taking Santa 01 down to hull. Opens convo with Santa 01. Balor Rand: For 1 billion ISK and you can go free sir. Santa 01: ** YOU HOLE !! reactivates missile launchers destroying Santa 01.* Balor Rand: You should have paid sir. Have a nice day. collects the loot and warps out Balor Rand "In death everyone is equal. In death everyone is just another frozen corpse."
Marcus TheMartin Gallente MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.21 18:46:00 - [21] Originally by: Balor Rand Quote: Oh, and merry christmas everyone, let's hope the santa claus drops good loot! scans the system and comes across Santa 01. Warps to the location. Runs a quick scan of Santa 01 and decides to intercept. Locks Santa 01 and activates missile launchers taking Santa 01 down to hull. Opens convo with Santa 01. Balor Rand: For 1 billion ISK and you can go free sir. Santa 01: ** YOU HOLE !! reactivates missile launchers destroying Santa 01.* Balor Rand: You should have paid sir. Have a nice day. collects the loot and warps out you looted coal from his wreck didn't you Sig Nerf - Cortes I declare war on ISD! You don't stand a chance -Karl
Balor Rand Caldari Continuum Rift	Posted - 2006.12.21 18:48:00 - [22] I've sold the coal already but I'm having a hard time selling off the bags of switches. Balor Rand "In death everyone is equal. In death everyone is just another frozen corpse."
Saint Bubba	Posted - 2006.12.21 18:52:00 - [23] Low sec is fine too me. Just move if theirs no one in your area... Kill boards on most sites are still quite full so maybe think you might be in wrong area or doing something wrong?
Evil Sulu Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2006.12.21 19:42:00 - [24] Lowsec needs more whiskey flavoured water fountains, and hot young single moms stripping to pay for college tbh. CCP get on it. ------------- Public Channel: #Khanidblood
Mini newswire	Posted - 2006.12.22 05:16:00 - [25] Originally by: Evil Sulu Lowsec needs more whiskey flavoured water fountains, and hot young single moms stripping to pay for college tbh. CCP get on it. I agree to that more yummy mummies for those real men in low sec. As for the OP. You must be frequenting one of the very few low sec regions in eve, time to move locations. There are plenty of residents in most of the areas of low sec I have been through. I travel between maybe 5 regions and all seem pretty busy to me. Another point whoever said that it was not dangerous enough for pirates is obviously playing some other game than I am. Please check you havnt got freelancer installed. Low sec is full of carebears ganging up when one of thier brothers is ganked or other pirates wanting to show they are better at pirating than you or the damn anti pirate squads who though not always being able to kill you will hound you till you leave their area denying you good carebear targets. Low sec is where all the fun is 0.0 is too much waving and greating each other high sec is pve land low sec is the real lawless wild west.
Maxamus Rex Caldari Nevada Space Salvage	Posted - 2006.12.22 05:34:00 - [26] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii No Lowsec doesn not need it's risks minimising, It simply needs the rewards to be improved to justify the current risk. Which could be done by... #Allowing upto and not beyond 500k battleship spawns. #Ore's along the lines of Dark Ochre #Increase in sentry DPS, but a slightly lowered tracking to allow smaller vessals to still operate thier. #Some sort of benefit to Manufacturing in lowsec... (god knows what, I dont carebear) Fixed Alliaanna Signed. The only substantial thing I have to add is # Fix bounty hunting. Getting Concord involved in LowSec like the OP suggests is way too NPC-driven for my tastes. Put tools in the hands of the players, not police-drones. I agree make bounty hunting something that you can make isk, like a set amount for killing the ship not only the pod. Millions for defence not one penny in trubute
Damien Smith Turbulent	Posted - 2006.12.22 10:43:00 - [27] Low sec isn't dangerous to pirates? Pirates go after anyone they think they can kill, and a lot of people they probably can't. The only difference between carebears and pirates is that pirates (and industrialists, antipirates, freelancers, etc) realise that they have to take certain steps in order to ensure their safety. Carebears just believe that if they whine enough their safety will be assured without them making a single effort. If you're concerned for your safety in low sec, then take steps to stay safe. Scouts, local chat, friendly intel, mercs, friendly antipies, stabs, THE MAP! <-- (very important one), the list is endless. Not logging off though because that's ghey, and many pirates, at least us anyway will always have a covops nearby to scan your ass down. Many of us may hate the new probing system, but it sure makes avenging loggers easy. ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg
Jalec Creed Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.22 12:03:00 - [28] Since were discussing options for low sec id like to share my wishes (clears throat): 1) Let mining ops take place, yet as soon as a strip or mining laser is activated all nearby stargates instantly close down, all nearby pirates receive evemails with bookmarks and belt information as well as guarding ship fitting-layouts and the entire op is insta-jammed. 2) Whenever a carebear battle ship or equivalent passes too closely to a stargate in Empire that leadsto low sec it gets sucked in and point 1¦takes place again. 3) All scrambled pirate-targets are automatically drained of desired amounts of ISK which is then transferred to the aggressors wallet as soon as the pirate clicks on ¿start conversation¿. 4) All active pirates receive a 50% bonus to cap, reppers, MWD speed and weapon dmg for as long as they remain undocked in low sec. Just my 2 cents for improving low sec. (aka - why does everyone always debate the low sec population so much? its fine as it is. :sigh:)
Curzon Dax Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.22 12:34:00 - [29] Here's a TRULY INNOVATIVE idea. If you want the carebears (like me) to go to lowsec, rather than come up with ideas, ASK US what it would take to get us into lowsec. CCP could do a survey. CCP: Ever been to lowsec? Me: Yep. CCP: Did you like it? Me: Nope. CCP: Do you avoid lowsec? Me: Yep. CCP: Would 500k bounty battleship spawns entice you to lowsec? Me: No, I can get double that bounty on battleships in a empire L4 misson. CCP: What about 1 million ISK battleshop spawns? Me: No, I just said I can get that in Empire Space CCP: What about 10 million ISK battleship spawns? Me: Don't you get it? If I wanted to leave Empire, I'd join an alliance and go to 0.0. CCP: What about Dark Ochre in lowsec? Me: I can mine Omber in highsec. CCP: Zydrine is nice! Me: 0.0 is safer. CCP: Lazy gankers really would like more targets. Me: Tell them to go to 0.0 or wardec an empire corp. CCP: What Risk vs. Reward would bring you into lowsec? Me: If the pirates weren't there. CCP: Well, that's not going to happen. Me: Then in empire I stay. Dudes....get a clue.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.22 12:56:00 - [30] Originally by: Curzon Dax Here's a TRULY INNOVATIVE idea. If you want the carebears (like me) to go to lowsec, rather than come up with ideas, ASK US what it would take to get us into lowsec. CCP could do a survey. CCP: Ever been to lowsec? Me: Yep. CCP: Did you like it? Me: Nope. CCP: Do you avoid lowsec? Me: Yep. CCP: Would 500k bounty battleship spawns entice you to lowsec? Me: No, I can get double that bounty on battleships in a empire L4 misson. CCP: What about 1 million ISK battleshop spawns? Me: No, I just said I can get that in Empire Space CCP: What about 10 million ISK battleship spawns? Me: Don't you get it? If I wanted to leave Empire, I'd join an alliance and go to 0.0. CCP: What about Dark Ochre in lowsec? Me: I can mine Omber in highsec. CCP: Zydrine is nice! Me: 0.0 is safer. CCP: Lazy gankers really would like more targets. Me: Tell them to go to 0.0 or wardec an empire corp. CCP: What Risk vs. Reward would bring you into lowsec? Me: If the pirates weren't there. CCP: Well, that's not going to happen. Me: Then in empire I stay. Dudes....get a clue. Conclusion = Nerf High Sec Rewards Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Rina Shanu Computer-Aided General Exploitation	Posted - 2006.12.22 13:06:00 - [31] Originally by: Nero Scuro So basically you want to be perfectly safe in low-sec? Remove gatecamps, give you your WCS back, and keep the free never-sleeping, never-faltering, ever-watchful eye that is local there to protect you? You are playing the wrong game. Low-sec is supposed to be dangerous. What it isn't supposed to be (but currently is) is not worth the effort vs the danger. You are lacking in reading comprehension skills. (read again you lazy arse) As for the main post: 1. wcs as it is now does not affect haulers, it may affect miners, but those should be able to GET A FRICKING FRIEND TO protect them form the pirates aswell as from the rats or 2 friends... WCS nerf was needed and the current implementation makes ratters and mission runners equip more adecquate and not just use lame tactics. 2. local is used 99% as a tactical tool. this is not good. I have no idea what should be done tho' 3. gatacamps have always been retarted. they have been used by lame arse pirates that are incapable of using other tactics. the kind of pirate that loves the kill mail more than he loves the role of a pirate, the loot or the ransom. This type of pirate have been proven to die easily in any other form of pvp except sniping (most of them...) So yes, I think dps should be a bit increased on the gate guns and I also think in order to snipe a pilot should really have skills, work his way there... increase the range also. 4. THIS IS A GREAT IDEA. It is plain stupid as it currently is. It makes no sense at all. I attack somebody, I get a 15min timer, than start moving arround with warp to 0. Yes, you can move arround with warp to 0. It is helping the pirates more than it is helping the victims. >> JOIN CAGE <<
Evil Sulu Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2006.12.22 13:41:00 - [32] Originally by: Curzon Dax CCP: Ever been to lowsec? Me: Yep. CCP: Did you like it? Me: Nope. CCP: Do you avoid lowsec? Me: Yep. CCP: Would 500k bounty battleship spawns entice you to lowsec? Me: No, I can get double that bounty on battleships in a empire L4 misson. CCP: What about 1 million ISK battleshop spawns? Me: No, I just said I can get that in Empire Space CCP: What about 10 million ISK battleship spawns? Me: Don't you get it? If I wanted to leave Empire, I'd join an alliance and go to 0.0. CCP: What about Dark Ochre in lowsec? Me: I can mine Omber in highsec. CCP: Zydrine is nice! Me: 0.0 is safer. CCP: Lazy gankers really would like more targets. Me: Tell them to go to 0.0 or wardec an empire corp. CCP: What Risk vs. Reward would bring you into lowsec? Me: If the pirates weren't there. CCP: Well, that's not going to happen. Me: Then in empire I stay. I have the same problem trying to coax my retarded brother out of his steel cage every morning. Much sympathy CCP. ------------- Public Channel: #Khanidblood
Xantina Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2006.12.22 14:11:00 - [33] Quote: Conclusion = Nerf High Sec Rewards I suppose you missed this line: Quote: Me: Don't you get it? If I wanted to leave Empire, I'd join an alliance and go to 0.0.
Tissa Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.22 14:11:00 - [34] I have nothing of value to add to this thread however I thought I would share with you what happened when I right clicked to open new tab. http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/9899/carebearyh8.jpg My views do not represent those of my corp or alliance. (Joined UKC 19/09/06)
Exlegion Legion's Knight	Posted - 2006.12.22 14:25:00 - [35] I wouldn't say low sec is safe for pirates and PVP'ers, but it IS definitely SAFER to these classes. Why? PVP setup =! PVE setup and mining setup. A PVP'er is dressed for the occasion. Everyone else probably isn't. And yes, I would like it if low sec was made more enticing in the form of higher rewards worth the risk. As it stands, the rewards do not justify the risk. I may make more isk/hour, but all it would take is one ship destruction to set me back a few weeks of play time. And 'keeping an eye on traffic through local' every few seconds is not a viable solution when you're being pounded by 15+ NPCs at the same time (probably even warp-scrambling). Exlegion
Bill Shankly Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2006.12.22 15:18:00 - [36] Edited by: Bill Shankly on 22/12/2006 15:18:29 Originally by: Xantina Quote: Conclusion = Nerf High Sec Rewards I suppose you missed this line: Quote: Me: Don't you get it? If I wanted to leave Empire, I'd join an alliance and go to 0.0. I suppose you missed these lines, if your gonna be nit picking, learn to read first inbred. Quote: CCP: Would 500k bounty battleship spawns entice you to lowsec? Me: No, I can get double that bounty on battleships in a empire L4 misson. CCP: What about 1 million ISK battleshop spawns? Me: No, I just said I can get that in Empire Space
Vargrh Gallente Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.22 16:40:00 - [37] Originally by: Jalec Creed Since were discussing options for low sec id like to share my wishes (clears throat): 1) Let mining ops take place, yet as soon as a strip or mining laser is activated all nearby stargates instantly close down, all nearby pirates receive evemails with bookmarks and belt information as well as guarding ship fitting-layouts and the entire op is insta-jammed. 2) Whenever a carebear battle ship or equivalent passes too closely to a stargate in Empire that leadsto low sec it gets sucked in and point 1¦takes place again. 3) All scrambled pirate-targets are automatically drained of desired amounts of ISK which is then transferred to the aggressors wallet as soon as the pirate clicks on ¿start conversation¿. 4) All active pirates receive a 50% bonus to cap, reppers, MWD speed and weapon dmg for as long as they remain undocked in low sec. Just my 2 cents for improving low sec. (aka - why does everyone always debate the low sec population so much? its fine as it is. :sigh:) Cannot stop laughing at 2.
Xantina Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2006.12.27 17:13:00 - [38] Quote: I suppose you missed these lines, if your gonna be nit picking, learn to read first inbred. CCP: Would 500k bounty battleship spawns entice you to lowsec? Me: No, I can get double that bounty on battleships in a empire L4 misson. CCP: What about 1 million ISK battleshop spawns? Me: No, I just said I can get that in Empire Space At which time the conclusion to nerf empire rewards came. At which time I mentioned that in this case people still wouldn't play target in lowsec but move into 0.0. So it seems you have a more questionable parentage than I do if you failed to grasp this.
Dark PIne	Posted - 2006.12.28 14:13:00 - [39] To get mission runners move to low-sec the rewards would need to be substantially higher than in high-sec. Mission runners in high-sec use faction ships/fittings to make mission running as efficient as possible, but they will not risk faction gear in low-sec missioning. In low-sec they would need to use T1/T2 gear; this means that they will need to gang with a friend to complete missions with the same efficiency, or the missions will take considerably more time. Either way the effort to complete missions will be double to that in high-sec. In addition the risk of piracy is always present. I'd say that mission rewards (lp's, bounties, loot) in low-sec should be at least double the amount they are in high-sec to make missioning in low-sec worthwhile. This could be achieved by boosting low-sec rewards, or nerfing high-sec rewards, or a bit of both.
Samirol The Scope	Posted - 2006.12.28 15:48:00 - [40] Originally by: Rina Shanu 3. gatacamps have always been retarted. they have been used by lame arse pirates that are incapable of using other tactics. the kind of pirate that loves the kill mail more than he loves the role of a pirate, the loot or the ransom. This type of pirate have been proven to die easily in any other form of pvp except sniping (most of them...) So yes, I think dps should be a bit increased on the gate guns and I also think in order to snipe a pilot should really have skills, work his way there... increase the range also. Think about it... which is smarter, looking for inexistent targets in belts (depending which area of space you are in, kali fubared a lot of regions up), or letting the come to you and actually getting a kill. Just because someone gatecamps doesnt mean they are incompetent pvpers, it means that they are smarter since they are going where the highest chance of isk success is. However, sentry dps needs to be cranked up to increase the risk/reward, and kali has done its work to the snipers. I would think 2 or 3 times the damage would be consistent. Great being a gallente blasterthron pilot, aint it?
Weix	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:57:00 - [41] Originally by: Samirol Originally by: Rina Shanu 3. gatacamps have always been retarted. they have been used by lame arse pirates that are incapable of using other tactics. the kind of pirate that loves the kill mail more than he loves the role of a pirate, the loot or the ransom. This type of pirate have been proven to die easily in any other form of pvp except sniping (most of them...) So yes, I think dps should be a bit increased on the gate guns and I also think in order to snipe a pilot should really have skills, work his way there... increase the range also. Think about it... which is smarter, looking for inexistent targets in belts (depending which area of space you are in, kali fubared a lot of regions up), or letting the come to you and actually getting a kill. Just because someone gatecamps doesnt mean they are incompetent pvpers, it means that they are smarter since they are going where the highest chance of isk success is. However, sentry dps needs to be cranked up to increase the risk/reward, and kali has done its work to the snipers. I would think 2 or 3 times the damage would be consistent. Rina, I coudn't agree more. Gate camping has nothing to do with PvP, its pure PvV (player vs victim). Its pretty hilarious to see so many pirates pretending its a sophisticated and real PvP part of the game. Its just lame, lazy and sad, BUT I dont care, it does make things more exciting and except for bubbles they can't do any harm to anyone with half a brain. Just be prepared. Bubbles are a pain in the ass but that's all they have. IMO PvP piracy is dead, so this pretty much condemns EVE players with a tendency to do naughty things to gate camping. As long as local and safe spots are around, REAL piracy will be difficult and time-consuming. So if CCP wants to get rid of the gate campers it should implement more then just boosting the sentry guns. Give the pirate community something back instead. Like kill rights on anyone below -1.0 sec status. The real PvP-ers will have more fights and the PvV-ers with get their asses kicked, even in empire space.
Talionis	Posted - 2006.12.28 19:39:00 - [42] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii No Lowsec doesn not need it's risks minimising, It simply needs the rewards to be improved to justify the current risk. Which could be done by... #Allowing upto and not beyond 500k battleship spawns. #Ore's along the lines of Dark Ochre #Increase in sentry DPS, but a slightly lowered tracking to allow smaller vessals to still operate thier. #Some sort of benefit to Manufacturing in lowsec... (god knows what, I dont carebear) Fixed Alliaanna Coming from an industrialist's (carebear to most of you) perspective, this is the most appealing. Manufacturing in lowsec is not a problem atm. If you want more targets, a.) Make refineries more viable, as in 200,000m3 at 50% for 2 hours for 500,000 powergrid and b.) make invention more viable (currently they're just a sick joke from CCPs end imo) and able to be conducted out of research outposts. Also, while the belt rats would keep solo barge miners out of lowsec you would get alot of PvE-ers rushing to the scene. I'd reccomend only the occasional BS spawn in .2, and more BC spawns in .3. That'd keep it balanced and still give lots of incentive. I like the ideas. Lots of potential ISK for me. (And lots of targets for you, aka competition in my book.)
Kittsa Twilight Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.29 03:32:00 - [43] I do not believe that the risk vs. reward in low-sec should be altered, I have seen areas areas where carebears have been hanging about reasonably safely. The thing is is that low-sec, like 0.0 just isn't for everyone. Thro in my early days, I found 0.4 systems more of a loss than a gain. I still have a horrible record out in those systems, only in two out of the 8 low sec systems i've been in, i've managed to pull in a profit. This has made me very selective of where I mine, and rat. I believe low sec is the place for better established corps than it was for lone miners, thro i didn't do too bad ninja mining in a 0.1 system with a destroyer. Like in real life, most carebear players prefer the better security of high sec space, rather than the potential big rewards of low sec. I know this because myself i'm probably 80-90% carebear. the last is the scheming me who loves the idea of piracy but really sucks at PvP (like on every game). Oh yes, i'm a twisted abomination. :) But enough about that, maybe whats needed is one of three things. 1. More enterprising people offering security in low sec systems for payment. (ie. mining passes, from the local pirates in the area, as long there is not smack talk, threats etc. , Offer of service, ie. manfacturer build stuff to help out pirates in area in exchange for free passage, "hostage" mode maybe) 2. The occasional appearence of NPC "pirate hunters" when a pirate attacks another PC. Depending on the sec of system, sec rating of pirate and the amount of times he has killed PC ships in the last 24 hours, and maybe bounty. Have these "pirate hunters" also attempt to destroy the capsule the pirate too. 3. Less player pirates (This is the carebear in me speaking, so I'll just stamp this option out...) Lastly, Low sec does indeed have its charms. But myself, i prefer cruising around in a combat ship then a barge. And no, Ihaven't ever officially pirated, so I cannot be sure how the "dark" side is like.
Samirol The Scope	Posted - 2006.12.29 06:02:00 - [44] Edited by: Samirol on 29/12/2006 06:02:33 Originally by: Weix Originally by: Samirol Originally by: Rina Shanu 3. gatacamps have always been retarted. they have been used by lame arse pirates that are incapable of using other tactics. the kind of pirate that loves the kill mail more than he loves the role of a pirate, the loot or the ransom. This type of pirate have been proven to die easily in any other form of pvp except sniping (most of them...) So yes, I think dps should be a bit increased on the gate guns and I also think in order to snipe a pilot should really have skills, work his way there... increase the range also. Think about it... which is smarter, looking for inexistent targets in belts (depending which area of space you are in, kali fubared a lot of regions up), or letting the come to you and actually getting a kill. Just because someone gatecamps doesnt mean they are incompetent pvpers, it means that they are smarter since they are going where the highest chance of isk success is. However, sentry dps needs to be cranked up to increase the risk/reward, and kali has done its work to the snipers. I would think 2 or 3 times the damage would be consistent. Rina, I coudn't agree more. Gate camping has nothing to do with PvP, its pure PvV (player vs victim). Its pretty hilarious to see so many pirates pretending its a sophisticated and real PvP part of the game. Its just lame, lazy and sad, BUT I dont care, it does make things more exciting and except for bubbles they can't do any harm to anyone with half a brain. Just be prepared. Bubbles are a pain in the ass but that's all they have. IMO PvP piracy is dead, so this pretty much condemns EVE players with a tendency to do naughty things to gate camping. As long as local and safe spots are around, REAL piracy will be difficult and time-consuming. So if CCP wants to get rid of the gate campers it should implement more then just boosting the sentry guns. Give the pirate community something back instead. Like kill rights on anyone below -1.0 sec status. The real PvP-ers will have more fights and the PvV-ers with get their asses kicked, even in empire space. if belt piracy was more profitable, a lot of belt pirates wouldnt resort to gate camping you gate camp for money, not fun Great being a gallente blasterthron pilot, aint it?
Taintedbeef	Posted - 2006.12.29 09:51:00 - [45] I think a good way to make people feel a little more secure in low sec would be to have a few small Concord patrols that fly through low security, if someone is killed and a patrol is within 1 or 2 jumps they start heading for the scene. If not then everything goes on as normal. The patrols do not have to be large, make them small enough a pirate gang could reasonably choose to fight them, however it would add more risk to pirating in low security. More risk to pirates means less risk for adventurers, granted it would still be more risky, but the rewards are currently slightly better. The only other way I could see bringing more people into low security would be by increasing the reward.
Earnol	Posted - 2006.12.29 10:46:00 - [46] Edited by: Earnol on 29/12/2006 10:46:05 Well. As for carebear i can say give some guarantie... I'm, not againts playing with lady luck in low-sec, but yesterday i have seen interceptors two times on both missions i have done yesterday. Yes, i'm doing about 6 missions per week. So if you have been blown up by pirate get protection from concord say for several hours of gameplay(not real time, but actual time in space). So if pirate will blow you up when protected he will be hunted by concord like in hi-sec. Make this feature only for those who has positive CC. Under this conditiona i personally move to low sec. The problem is not piracy, but "constant" piracy! Let holy light of Darkness enlighten you!
Ren Tales Null Horizon	Posted - 2006.12.29 11:46:00 - [47] Originally by: Earnol Edited by: Earnol on 29/12/2006 10:46:05 Well. As for carebear i can say give some guarantie... I'm, not againts playing with lady luck in low-sec, but yesterday i have seen interceptors two times on both missions i have done yesterday. Yes, i'm doing about 6 missions per week. So if you have been blown up by pirate get protection from concord say for several hours of gameplay(not real time, but actual time in space). So if pirate will blow you up when protected he will be hunted by concord like in hi-sec. Make this feature only for those who has positive CC. Under this conditiona i personally move to low sec. The problem is not piracy, but "constant" piracy! Um... is speachless Okay, well.... no I still can't get over it.
Fenris Wolfe Blazing Saddles	Posted - 2006.12.29 17:01:00 - [48] Ok... I'll add my 2 Iskies here.... In regards to the OP... Lowsec: IMHO lowsec is not a cornucopia of covetors, haulers, and belt runners... yet it is not a frigid wasteland of empty either. The groups in my neck of the woods(sic) are sometimes a more permanent fixture, and sometimes a transient mix of people. WCS: The WCS penalty is easily offset with an active Sensor Booster so if/when I ever fit one of those things again, I've already planned around it. Quite a few higher lvl missions have rats that scram, thus many PvE setups take that into account, so no real change there. As someone has mentioned, it really doesn't affect haulers one bit (no harm there)... and when a capsuleer is flying a ship with 7.5k scram and when he/she also knows how to bump a ship... e'nuff said. Local - AKA "The original long range scan": This helps the hunter just as much as the hunted. Dropping this chat will be nothing but a time sink. Keep it :) Gatecamp: I'll admit - I've gatecamped. Sometimes with others, sometimes solo. 99% of the time I did it without scram's. (the other 1% was me developing the theory that it was a wasted midslot) TBH it was the warp to zero that ended that after-the-bar (double double jack jack coke for color 4tw!) pastime more than anything else. But I'm ok with that - I don't mind playing Darwin for people who autopilot through lowsec. SG's really could do a little bit more damage, although I hesitate to say that is the answer, because opening up the option for smaller ships to try their hand at Yarrrdwork at gates would be very interesting. Law enforcement: I like your RP take on the scenario, although the downside is that a) all billboards are at the gates b) as someone else has mentioned, it leaves things in the hands of NPCs as things escalate. Let local defend local. Let corps revenge their fellows - better yet, bring the whole alliance. We all love a challenge. Truly the downside to everything is simply the fact that Carebear is as Carebear does. I'm at the wrong computer, but I'll have to pull up a quote from a chatlog back in my 1st month... "Watch out in 0.4 and under. PVP happens." I've seen all types (PvE, PvP, Industrial) succeed in lowsec. I've also seen some true poster children for biomass reprocessing. Final thought: lowsec shouldn't be a place where just anyone can make a living. You have to learn how to survive first. Feel free to try again if you fail the first/fifth/thousandth time, but there's always a bigger fish.
agent apple Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.29 18:02:00 - [49] One thing and one thing only will repopulate low sec and thats the complete removal of all level 4 agents from high sec space. However that might scare off a few punters which is exactly why were where we currently are. 1m isk BS should not exist in high sec space and faction ship offers should be the domain of low sec and 0.0 only.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.12.29 20:59:00 - [50] Originally by: Fenris Wolfe SG's really could do a little bit more damage, although I hesitate to say that is the answer, because opening up the option for smaller ships to try their hand at Yarrrdwork at gates would be very interesting. Better AI, 500k range, more damage, less tracking. They should still be quite dangerous to interceptors, but not insta-pwn. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Xantina Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:20:00 - [51] Quote: One thing and one thing only will repopulate low sec and thats the complete removal of all level 4 agents from high sec space. However that might scare off a few punters which is exactly why were where we currently are. 1m isk BS should not exist in high sec space and faction ship offers should be the domain of low sec and 0.0 only. I never went beyond lvl 3's before I moved to 0.0. I avoid lowsec altogether except if I'm rigged for foot-to-ass action which is not what the majority of the lowsec "nerf empire" crowd wants, preferring easy targets over actual risk. Judging from my own habits, removing lvl 4's wouldn't bother me at all. Nor would it make me visit lowsec more often.

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