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Fix low sec? Stabs, gatecamps, local and law enforcement

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Baudolino Gallente Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.21 11:22:00 - [1] Firstly- i am indeed implying that something is wrong with low-sec. Case: changes done and intended, reduce interest in low-sec. More interest needs to be generated.. "I want to spend my time killing both the wary and unwary. I enjoy getting mails where people threaten to leave the game because i destroyed everything they have. Taking other peoples money, ransoming, extortion etc. Right now low-sec sucks and the vast empty space between targets is boring" Bakcground: The sec status systems implies both a lvl of security and a vested political interest from the the different factions in a given system. Low-sec is by far the most unsafe and unregulated space in game (my speculation). 1. Stabs Nerfing stabs was maybe needed, but i disagree with the manner in which it was done. Any carebears and mission runners left for high sec space when the nerf was implemented. While the nerf forced PvPers to fit like men the adverse effect was a great reduction in the low-sec populace. The nerf should have made it more difficult for PvPers to fit stabs, but attempt to keep the adverse effect for miners and NPCers to a minimum. 2. Removing local There are discussions about removing local for the benefit of constellation channels instead. I believe this is another mistake that will further reduce the low-sec population. I would keep local in empire regulated space, but use constellation channels in 0.0 (it should be up to the sovereign what quality of communications are available to the locals) 3. Gatecamps Gatecamps are lazy ass bull** and i won`t do it. Furthermore they also adversly affect the low-sec population. ALL sentry guns should do 100% more damage and all gates should have 1 additional gun. Range on all sentries should be doubled. The idea is to promote skirmish and mobile warfare, teamwork and adaptation. 4. Law enforcement The devs are talking about escalating paths and i have a similar idea for law-enforcement. I presented this in the ideas discussion thread about a year ago.. a) when someone is killed it gets presented on the local billboard as a news flash. b) when n people are killed it gets presented on the new across the constellation- concord representatives is asked for a comment... c) n + x killed and the news goes regionwide. Local businessmenn (and whatnot) deman something is done- concord intervenes and camps the gate in the system for X hours d) if you kill someone during concord intervention- concord will hunt you. Mind you though- you should be able to fight concord and attempt to flee the system. This escalating path is a reflection of the fact the low-sec IS regulated space and that the owning factions have a vested economic and political interest to protect. In ending:** The intent of the post is to make low-sec an interesting place to be without having to put tons of arkonor in every belt or officer spawns in space. I`d like low-sec space to be a vibrant place where anyone can make a living without a retarded risk/reward ratio. Low-sec would still be dangerous and hopefully i`d get alot more fun out of the game then i do now. These changes would NOT make PvP too hard and is NOT giving in to carebears. It`s making low-sec more balanced, reflecting of it`s true status as regulated space and maybe giving more poeple reasons for and interest in living there. Giving ME more people to kill..
Cheese999 Minmatar Spitefully Targeting Foolishly Underskilled The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2006.12.21 11:31:00 - [2] It would be interesting to have roving gank blobs chased across the constelations by the faction navys. I like this idea, it encourages farming of carebears, as opposed to gankage and general anarchy. We have 0.0 for that... Hell, it would make the Anit-Pirates life easier, constelation wide news flashes guiding them straight to the bad guys, faction navy backup etc. Would certainly stir the pot a bit. ----- There is no Spoon Minmatar: Bending over for Tux since RmR Originally by: Outa Rileau bring a nosdomi to a fleet, and your fc will most likely call you primary.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.21 11:49:00 - [3] No Lowsec doesn not need it's risks minimising, It simply needs the rewards to be improved to justify the current risk. Which could be done by... #Allowing upto and not beyond 500k battleship spawns. #Ore's along the lines of Dark Ochre #Increase in sentry DPS, but a slightly lowered tracking to allow smaller vessals to still operate thier. #Some sort of benefit to Manufacturing in lowsec... (god knows what, I dont carebear) Fixed Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Nero Scuro Caldari Murder of Crows E N I G M A	Posted - 2006.12.21 12:08:00 - [4] So basically you want to be perfectly safe in low-sec? Remove gatecamps, give you your WCS back, and keep the free never-sleeping, never-faltering, ever-watchful eye that is local there to protect you? You are playing the wrong game. Low-sec is supposed to be dangerous. What it isn't supposed to be (but currently is) is not worth the effort vs the danger. ___ The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky...
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.21 12:09:00 - [5] Originally by: Baudolino 1. Stabs Nerfing stabs was maybe needed, but i disagree with the manner in which it was done. Any carebears and mission runners left for high sec space when the nerf was implemented. While the nerf forced PvPers to fit like men the adverse effect was a great reduction in the low-sec populace. The nerf should have made it more difficult for PvPers to fit stabs, but attempt to keep the adverse effect for miners and NPCers to a minimum. .. Die !! They didn't leave for high-sec.. lowsec is swarming with life. Both pirates & Carebears, And now with the Scan-probe nerf most mission ***s who ran off are now back again. Alliaanna** DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Kyozoku Loot	Posted - 2006.12.21 12:34:00 - [6] The stab nerf only affected pvpers. I still encounter many miners and mission runners with multiple stabs.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2006.12.21 12:58:00 - [7] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii No Lowsec doesn not need it's risks minimising, It simply needs the rewards to be improved to justify the current risk. Which could be done by... #Allowing upto and not beyond 500k battleship spawns. #Ore's along the lines of Dark Ochre #Increase in sentry DPS, but a slightly lowered tracking to allow smaller vessals to still operate thier. #Some sort of benefit to Manufacturing in lowsec... (god knows what, I dont carebear) Fixed Alliaanna When will you people learn? Risk Vs Reward is BS to an empire player. They want nothing to do with it. The only way to force these people out to low-sec is do away with mission and any ore above veld. Thank god CCP is alot smarter then you, or we would be playing with 3k people again. Lets increase the 'reward' in low sec, you say. Why cause you want some easy money also? I beleave CCP has balanced this game to please both type of players, both PvP'ers and PvE'ers. Can we help it if most of the players who play this game are PvE'ers, in noob corps, that dont want to play with you? Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.21 13:08:00 - [8] Originally by: Roshan longshot Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii No Lowsec doesn not need it's risks minimising, It simply needs the rewards to be improved to justify the current risk. Which could be done by... #Allowing upto and not beyond 500k battleship spawns. #Ore's along the lines of Dark Ochre #Increase in sentry DPS, but a slightly lowered tracking to allow smaller vessals to still operate thier. #Some sort of benefit to Manufacturing in lowsec... (god knows what, I dont carebear) Fixed Alliaanna When will you people learn? Risk Vs Reward is BS to an empire player. They want nothing to do with it. The only way to force these people out to low-sec is do away with mission and any ore above veld. Thank god CCP is alot smarter then you, or we would be playing with 3k people again. Lets increase the 'reward' in low sec, you say. Why cause you want some easy money also? I beleave CCP has balanced this game to please both type of players, both PvP'ers and PvE'ers. Can we help it if most of the players who play this game are PvE'ers, in noob corps, that dont want to play with you? Yes, More reward = Greater target density. And um... Yes they can, And they have tried in the past and will more than likely try again. Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Meenu Joshi	Posted - 2006.12.21 13:32:00 - [9] Move to a different part of low-sec/0.0. There's plenty of targets elsewhere and we're doing fine after the patch. Maybe you're a nubber o0 NB - Yeah, this is an alt, I'm too lazy to change to my main.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.21 13:37:00 - [10] Originally by: Meenu Joshi Move to a different part of low-sec/0.0. There's plenty of targets elsewhere and we're doing fine after the patch. Maybe you're a nubber o0 NB - Yeah, this is an alt, I'm too lazy to change to my main. Was that at me ? Lowsec has plenty of targets yes... your point ? Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Xsag Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.12.21 13:42:00 - [11] Originally by: Nero Scuro So basically you want to be perfectly safe in low-sec? Remove gatecamps, give you your WCS back, and keep the free never-sleeping, never-faltering, ever-watchful eye that is local there to protect you? You are playing the wrong game. Low-sec is supposed to be dangerous. What it isn't supposed to be (but currently is) is not worth the effort vs the danger. while i agree with YOUR comments at the same time you must see that what he is suggesting is a way of making low sec busier than it currently is - we all know its pretty desolate most of the time (does anyone deny that???), rather than just rant the same reply that we see time and time again why not modify his suggestions into something that you might find acceptable - i am a nub i openly admit that and very rarely venture into lowsec but when i do the vast majority of time it is extremely quiet....... just a thought not flaming anyone just trying to make this thread constructive rather than the same old flame war pvp / anti pvp camps xsag ~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
Baudolino Gallente Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.21 13:50:00 - [12] Nero scuro - I`m not sure you actually read my post.. Aliaanna - I`m not talking about a vast reduction in the risk of maneuvering in low-sec space. I`ve been playing this game for more then 3.5 years- hunted people all over EVE. For the better part of a year now- i`ve been pre-occupied with ganking in low-sec on the border of 0.0- this is how i make my living in EVE. EvE has changed and will continue to change. It`s not the hardcore PvP game i started playing, which is fine by me. I think the difference in goals adds depth. My point is that low-sec is too far on the lawless side to warrant any real interest from carebears. This gives me less people to kill. I want PvP - others want to haul, mine rat or whatever. I think that the "rewards versus system sec status" are balanced in a good way and see no need to change this. What i seek is a change to the mechanics of low-sec space that will maintain risk, while changing the qualities of the risk. Make it more interesting for everyone to live in and operate in low-sec without vastly reducing risk or resorting vast rewards.
Muran Corrod	Posted - 2006.12.21 14:29:00 - [13] Originally by: Nero Scuro You are playing the wrong game. Low-sec is supposed to be dangerous. What it isn't supposed to be (but currently is) is not worth the effort vs the danger. The problem is, lowsec is only dangerous to some kinds of player and not others. Its not dangerous to pirates/gankers/griefers, its ONLY dangerous to Miners, traders, and other industrialists (to a lesser degree mission runners) Whining that lowsec is supposed to be dangerous while belonging to a group that lowsec is NOT dangerous for is massively hypocritical IMO
Puupuu mUfFiN fAcToRy Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.21 14:40:00 - [14] Originally by: Muran Corrod Its not dangerous to pirates/gankers/griefers, its ONLY dangerous to Miners, traders, and other industrialists (to a lesser degree mission runners) Just curious.... Why is lowsec not dangerous to pirates? They don't even have sentry guns on their side? Oh, and merry christmas everyone, let's hope the santa claus drops good loot!
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.21 14:49:00 - [15] How is lowsec NOT dangerous to pirates ? There's no code of honour amonst pirate corps you know... we do kill each other as well as carebears. In fact it's easier going after the pirates as there's no criminal flagging !! Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Sun Win Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2006.12.21 15:02:00 - [16] Edited by: Sun Win on 21/12/2006 15:03:40 Whenever I read complaints on the Eve forums about the status of low sec I begin to wonder if I'm playing a different game from everyone else. The Eve I'm playing has a tonne of targets in Low Sec space, with groups of other pirates, carebears and miners peppered all over the place, not to mention anti-pirates and the occasional alliance pilot passing through between empire and 0.0. Last night I spent a few hours hunting with two gangs of 6-8 people. At the end of the night, my share of the loot was around 33 million ISK, meaning that we scooped around 231 million ISK in loot and before anyone asks, no none of these ships were blown up at gates and yes, some of the fights were fair. If you are a pirate having trouble finding targets, I suggest that you move. Revelations gave everyone in Eve a set of instas for the entire cluster. This is as much a benefit to pirates as to everyone else. Set a destination that's like 20 low sec jumps out and just roam. You never know what you're going to find out there. So I guess this is a vote for "Low Sec seems fine to me" New to Eve? Learn to Fly - join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Baudolino Gallente Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.21 16:47:00 - [17] I`ve edited my original post with some additions to better clarify why i`m posting. I`m not saying there are no targets in low-sec. I`m saying there are way too few and the levels have been dropping continuously for some time. with revelations i felt the trend not only continue, but also cement itself in the new mechanics. There are good reasons to increase the population of low-sec, but with the current ratio of pirates vs carebears it`s a loosing battle. it`s been a long time since i could ransom BS owner at ship cost and i miss it. Read this as part of a conservationist debate and you`ll better understand my viewpoints..
Tobias Sjodin Caldari Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.21 17:06:00 - [18] No targets in low-sec because of the stabnerf? Jebus. You should go out more. [OMG! SMASH!]
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2006.12.21 17:44:00 - [19] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii No Lowsec doesn not need it's risks minimising, It simply needs the rewards to be improved to justify the current risk. Which could be done by... #Allowing upto and not beyond 500k battleship spawns. #Ore's along the lines of Dark Ochre #Increase in sentry DPS, but a slightly lowered tracking to allow smaller vessals to still operate thier. #Some sort of benefit to Manufacturing in lowsec... (god knows what, I dont carebear) Fixed Alliaanna Signed. The only substantial thing I have to add is # Fix bounty hunting. Getting Concord involved in LowSec like the OP suggests is way too NPC-driven for my tastes. Put tools in the hands of the players, not police-drones. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Balor Rand Caldari Continuum Rift	Posted - 2006.12.21 18:44:00 - [20] Quote: Oh, and merry christmas everyone, let's hope the santa claus drops good loot! scans the system and comes across Santa 01. Warps to the location. Runs a quick scan of Santa 01 and decides to intercept. Locks Santa 01 and activates missile launchers taking Santa 01 down to hull. Opens convo with Santa 01. Balor Rand: For 1 billion ISK and you can go free sir. Santa 01: ** YOU HOLE !! reactivates missile launchers destroying Santa 01.* Balor Rand: You should have paid sir. Have a nice day. collects the loot and warps out Balor Rand "In death everyone is equal. In death everyone is just another frozen corpse."
Marcus TheMartin Gallente MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.21 18:46:00 - [21] Originally by: Balor Rand Quote: Oh, and merry christmas everyone, let's hope the santa claus drops good loot! scans the system and comes across Santa 01. Warps to the location. Runs a quick scan of Santa 01 and decides to intercept. Locks Santa 01 and activates missile launchers taking Santa 01 down to hull. Opens convo with Santa 01. Balor Rand: For 1 billion ISK and you can go free sir. Santa 01: ** YOU HOLE !! reactivates missile launchers destroying Santa 01.* Balor Rand: You should have paid sir. Have a nice day. collects the loot and warps out you looted coal from his wreck didn't you Sig Nerf - Cortes I declare war on ISD! You don't stand a chance -Karl
Balor Rand Caldari Continuum Rift	Posted - 2006.12.21 18:48:00 - [22] I've sold the coal already but I'm having a hard time selling off the bags of switches. Balor Rand "In death everyone is equal. In death everyone is just another frozen corpse."
Saint Bubba	Posted - 2006.12.21 18:52:00 - [23] Low sec is fine too me. Just move if theirs no one in your area... Kill boards on most sites are still quite full so maybe think you might be in wrong area or doing something wrong?
Evil Sulu Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2006.12.21 19:42:00 - [24] Lowsec needs more whiskey flavoured water fountains, and hot young single moms stripping to pay for college tbh. CCP get on it. ------------- Public Channel: #Khanidblood
Mini newswire	Posted - 2006.12.22 05:16:00 - [25] Originally by: Evil Sulu Lowsec needs more whiskey flavoured water fountains, and hot young single moms stripping to pay for college tbh. CCP get on it. I agree to that more yummy mummies for those real men in low sec. As for the OP. You must be frequenting one of the very few low sec regions in eve, time to move locations. There are plenty of residents in most of the areas of low sec I have been through. I travel between maybe 5 regions and all seem pretty busy to me. Another point whoever said that it was not dangerous enough for pirates is obviously playing some other game than I am. Please check you havnt got freelancer installed. Low sec is full of carebears ganging up when one of thier brothers is ganked or other pirates wanting to show they are better at pirating than you or the damn anti pirate squads who though not always being able to kill you will hound you till you leave their area denying you good carebear targets. Low sec is where all the fun is 0.0 is too much waving and greating each other high sec is pve land low sec is the real lawless wild west.
Maxamus Rex Caldari Nevada Space Salvage	Posted - 2006.12.22 05:34:00 - [26] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii No Lowsec doesn not need it's risks minimising, It simply needs the rewards to be improved to justify the current risk. Which could be done by... #Allowing upto and not beyond 500k battleship spawns. #Ore's along the lines of Dark Ochre #Increase in sentry DPS, but a slightly lowered tracking to allow smaller vessals to still operate thier. #Some sort of benefit to Manufacturing in lowsec... (god knows what, I dont carebear) Fixed Alliaanna Signed. The only substantial thing I have to add is # Fix bounty hunting. Getting Concord involved in LowSec like the OP suggests is way too NPC-driven for my tastes. Put tools in the hands of the players, not police-drones. I agree make bounty hunting something that you can make isk, like a set amount for killing the ship not only the pod. Millions for defence not one penny in trubute
Damien Smith Turbulent	Posted - 2006.12.22 10:43:00 - [27] Low sec isn't dangerous to pirates? Pirates go after anyone they think they can kill, and a lot of people they probably can't. The only difference between carebears and pirates is that pirates (and industrialists, antipirates, freelancers, etc) realise that they have to take certain steps in order to ensure their safety. Carebears just believe that if they whine enough their safety will be assured without them making a single effort. If you're concerned for your safety in low sec, then take steps to stay safe. Scouts, local chat, friendly intel, mercs, friendly antipies, stabs, THE MAP! <-- (very important one), the list is endless. Not logging off though because that's ghey, and many pirates, at least us anyway will always have a covops nearby to scan your ass down. Many of us may hate the new probing system, but it sure makes avenging loggers easy. ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg
Jalec Creed Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.22 12:03:00 - [28] Since were discussing options for low sec id like to share my wishes (clears throat): 1) Let mining ops take place, yet as soon as a strip or mining laser is activated all nearby stargates instantly close down, all nearby pirates receive evemails with bookmarks and belt information as well as guarding ship fitting-layouts and the entire op is insta-jammed. 2) Whenever a carebear battle ship or equivalent passes too closely to a stargate in Empire that leadsto low sec it gets sucked in and point 1¦takes place again. 3) All scrambled pirate-targets are automatically drained of desired amounts of ISK which is then transferred to the aggressors wallet as soon as the pirate clicks on ¿start conversation¿. 4) All active pirates receive a 50% bonus to cap, reppers, MWD speed and weapon dmg for as long as they remain undocked in low sec. Just my 2 cents for improving low sec. (aka - why does everyone always debate the low sec population so much? its fine as it is. :sigh:)
Curzon Dax Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.22 12:34:00 - [29] Here's a TRULY INNOVATIVE idea. If you want the carebears (like me) to go to lowsec, rather than come up with ideas, ASK US what it would take to get us into lowsec. CCP could do a survey. CCP: Ever been to lowsec? Me: Yep. CCP: Did you like it? Me: Nope. CCP: Do you avoid lowsec? Me: Yep. CCP: Would 500k bounty battleship spawns entice you to lowsec? Me: No, I can get double that bounty on battleships in a empire L4 misson. CCP: What about 1 million ISK battleshop spawns? Me: No, I just said I can get that in Empire Space CCP: What about 10 million ISK battleship spawns? Me: Don't you get it? If I wanted to leave Empire, I'd join an alliance and go to 0.0. CCP: What about Dark Ochre in lowsec? Me: I can mine Omber in highsec. CCP: Zydrine is nice! Me: 0.0 is safer. CCP: Lazy gankers really would like more targets. Me: Tell them to go to 0.0 or wardec an empire corp. CCP: What Risk vs. Reward would bring you into lowsec? Me: If the pirates weren't there. CCP: Well, that's not going to happen. Me: Then in empire I stay. Dudes....get a clue.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.22 12:56:00 - [30] Originally by: Curzon Dax Here's a TRULY INNOVATIVE idea. If you want the carebears (like me) to go to lowsec, rather than come up with ideas, ASK US what it would take to get us into lowsec. CCP could do a survey. CCP: Ever been to lowsec? Me: Yep. CCP: Did you like it? Me: Nope. CCP: Do you avoid lowsec? Me: Yep. CCP: Would 500k bounty battleship spawns entice you to lowsec? Me: No, I can get double that bounty on battleships in a empire L4 misson. CCP: What about 1 million ISK battleshop spawns? Me: No, I just said I can get that in Empire Space CCP: What about 10 million ISK battleship spawns? Me: Don't you get it? If I wanted to leave Empire, I'd join an alliance and go to 0.0. CCP: What about Dark Ochre in lowsec? Me: I can mine Omber in highsec. CCP: Zydrine is nice! Me: 0.0 is safer. CCP: Lazy gankers really would like more targets. Me: Tell them to go to 0.0 or wardec an empire corp. CCP: What Risk vs. Reward would bring you into lowsec? Me: If the pirates weren't there. CCP: Well, that's not going to happen. Me: Then in empire I stay. Dudes....get a clue. Conclusion = Nerf High Sec Rewards Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!

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