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Mr De
Misfits United
I N G L O R I O U S
6
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Posted - 2015.09.26 04:13:36 -
[1] - Quote
So this has happened a couple times to me, and I have to figure this out. Loki's specifically are being effected.
[Loki, Daavid Cee's Loki]
1600mm Steel Plates II
Damage Control II
Domination Gyrostabilizer
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
True Sansha Armor Explosive Hardener
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener
Domination 10MN Afterburner
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Sensor Booster II
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
650mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Loki Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
Loki Electronics - Immobility Drivers
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Loki Offensive - Turret Concurrence Registry
Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
That fit plugged in has 130 EHP. But, time and time again the last 12 months, Loki's die while sustaining 13k-23k of damage. Case in point, this is not mine, but one i witnessed today.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/49260842/
Why is this happeneing? What am i not understanging? If with resistances, something has 130k of sustainable damage, why is it only registering taking 22k?
I have lost 2 strategic cruisers to this issue. One was brick tanked at 150k ehp and was killed by 6 thrashers that insta poped me with a passive buffer fit. I did petition it, and the other.
If anyone knows what is happeneing, please let me know. And has anyone else had this issue?
Thanks |
Divine Entervention
Legion's Knights Of The Round
Intrepid Crossing
637
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Posted - 2015.09.26 04:30:51 -
[2] - Quote
Incoming damage is at a rate higher than the armor repairers can compensate for, resulting in not having the time necessary to result in the full amount of anticipated EHP? |
The Asteroid
Alts Online
0
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Posted - 2015.09.26 04:37:20 -
[3] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Incoming damage is at a rate higher than the armor repairers can compensate for, resulting in not having the time necessary to result in the full amount of anticipated EHP?
That armor repairer must be cloaked. |
Divine Entervention
Legion's Knights Of The Round
Intrepid Crossing
637
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Posted - 2015.09.26 04:43:49 -
[4] - Quote
any real attempt at a contribution or you done? |
Zeratul Stark
Talocan Exploration and Research
4
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Posted - 2015.09.26 04:54:06 -
[5] - Quote
I'm pretty sure I know this one but I could be wrong. When you see damage done on that zkillboard kill-report, it does not report the damage done in EHP, just raw damage. For instance, my Loki fit which is very similar to yours, while it has 133k EHP, only has 22.8k raw hitpoints (total of shield, armor, and structure hitpoints). You are only in reality taking ~23,000 damage total, it's just that if there's an even 25% spread each among damage types, taking resists into account you will be able to take 133k damage before it actually burns through your 23k raw hitpoints. |
Trevor Dalech
We pooped on your lawn
Resonance.
168
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Posted - 2015.09.26 04:55:46 -
[6] - Quote
There is a difference between real HP and effective HP, the latter takes resistances into account.
For example, you have armour plates having 20k HP and your resistances are 80% across the board. In order to whittle down your 20k armor I effectively need to do 5 times as much damage, or 100k in damage. If my shots do, theoretically 1000 damage on no resists, each time my shots land they will damage you for 200 due to your resists, and I need to fire 100 of them to kill your tank.
Kill mails show real damage taken, fitting tools like Pyfa, and the EVE fitting screen, show effective health as that is the better measure of how sturdy your ship is. |
CptnAmazin
Republic of New Eden
Pirate Coalition
1
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Posted - 2015.09.26 04:59:48 -
[7] - Quote
If you insta popped to 6 thrashers in a "brick tanked" t3, you either dont know what insta popped means or you forgot to fit your ship before you undocked |
The Asteroid
Alts Online
0
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Posted - 2015.09.26 05:00:30 -
[8] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:any real attempt at a contribution or you done?
I contributed by pointing out the fact that there is no armor repairer, because apparently reading is not your thing. 
CptnAmazin wrote:If you insta popped to 6 thrashers in a "brick tanked" t3, you either dont know what insta popped means or you forgot to fit your ship before you undocked
He may have never bothered with turning the hardeners and DCU on. |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
1043
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Posted - 2015.09.26 05:19:27 -
[9] - Quote
I suspect that you will find the damage received matches exactly the amount of hitpoints that ship actually had.
Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.
I invented Tiericide
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Ima GoodGirl
Black Ballers
105
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Posted - 2015.09.26 05:36:05 -
[10] - Quote
Oh man. Such fail.
It's not epic EHP problem, it's epic OP problem.
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Revenant Kane
The Revenant Crew
4
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Posted - 2015.09.26 06:47:30 -
[11] - Quote
Well...
As the OP pointed out. Even after 7 years of EVE he is still learning new things. |
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
50
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Posted - 2015.09.26 06:55:23 -
[12] - Quote
Revenant Kane wrote:Well...
As the OP pointed out. Even after 7 years of EVE he is still learning new things.
7 years in highsec does strange things to people.
A case for more AoE in EvE
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Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
913
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Posted - 2015.09.26 07:03:11 -
[13] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:Revenant Kane wrote:Well...
As the OP pointed out. Even after 7 years of EVE he is still learning new things. 7 years in highsec while within dock range of station and neutral guardian logi does strange things to people.
fixed that for you.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Paranoid Loyd
7049
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Posted - 2015.09.26 07:38:41 -
[14] - Quote
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Valkin Mordirc
1509
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Posted - 2015.09.26 08:02:27 -
[15] - Quote
Damage on Zkill is Raw Damage, from the Raw HP. EFT gives "EHP" or Effective Hit Points. EHP has resistance values. I don't understand it completely, but that is why the damage is different.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
524
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Posted - 2015.09.26 09:41:50 -
[16] - Quote
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=670005 |
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
261
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Posted - 2015.09.26 11:05:14 -
[17] - Quote
Raw ehp numbers are misleading. You usually tank only shields, armor or hull. The other numbers do not add much to the effective tank. Some damge types do more to shield, others to armor and with those you have to take alpha in consideration. With high alpha weapons only your real ehp (the system you have tanked, shield or armor) counts, the rest is insignificant.
"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1480
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Posted - 2015.09.26 11:09:18 -
[18] - Quote
Gimme Sake wrote:Some ammo types do more damage to shield others to armor
That is incorrect. All that matters is the ammo's damage types and the tank's (whichever type that may be) resists to those. |
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
261
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Posted - 2015.09.26 11:11:47 -
[19] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Gimme Sake wrote:Some ammo types do more damage to shield others to armor That is incorrect. All that matters is the ammo's damage types and the tank's (whichever type that may be) resists to those.
Yep, I meant damage type.
"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1480
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Posted - 2015.09.26 11:21:06 -
[20] - Quote
Gimme Sake wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Gimme Sake wrote:Some ammo types do more damage to shield others to armor That is incorrect. All that matters is the ammo's damage types and the tank's (whichever type that may be) resists to those. Yep, I meant damage type. What is listed as base damage done to shield and armor in the charge description.
No, that's my point.
"Base shield/armor damage" are bogus stats, not used in any sort of way. They're just a "how this will perform against armor or shield would they have generic resist types". It doesn't affect anything and they should have been removed from the attrib window long ago.
All that matters is resist vs damage type.
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Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
261
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Posted - 2015.09.26 11:43:08 -
[21] - Quote
Are you sure those stats are bogus? Because I think they affect the damage received per alpha volley. For example: a shield will go faster down when shot with em charges even if it has huge em resists while an armor tank with relatively lower em resists will last longer to the same amount of em damage. Eft numbers are bogus because they show an omni tank. That tank is fictive because, like you say, all that matters is resists vs damage type.
"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
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Yarda Black
Militaris Industries
Northern Coalition.
817
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Posted - 2015.09.26 11:50:28 -
[22] - Quote
EHP shows how much damage needs to be done to you to chew through all your hitpoints.
If I have 100 HP and 50% resist it will take 200 damage to destroy my 100 HP. Meaning my EHP is 200. If I die, the killboard will still show a ship that died having a 100 HP.
Only repairs will increase this number (local or remote), because it adds back HP you lost. Meaning it actually requires more hitpoints to be removed (damage) before you die. |
Arec Bardwin
1864
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Posted - 2015.09.26 12:20:21 -
[23] - Quote
Epic problem indeed  |
Mr De
Misfits United
I N G L O R I O U S
6
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Posted - 2015.09.26 12:51:55 -
[24] - Quote
Yarda Black wrote:EHP shows how much damage needs to be done to you to chew through all your hitpoints.
If I have 100 HP and 50% resist it will take 200 damage to destroy my 100 HP. Meaning my EHP is 200. If I die, the killboard will still show a ship that died having a 100 HP.
Only repairs will increase this number (local or remote), because it adds back HP you lost. Meaning it actually requires more hitpoints to be removed (damage) before you die.
Agreed. This brings me back to the original problem that I have. In the case of the loki I lost, 6 thrashers were able to do, apparently, 150,000 points of damage to my loki within 2-3 seconds. I had no active modules, so I didn't need to activate anything in order for the resistances to take effect. So if I have 90% resistances across the board, and have 10K armor HP, then whoever is shooting at me should have to do 9 times the damage, because of the 90% reduction due to resistances, which would mean that I would have to sustain 90,000 pts of damage before my shields are gone?
If that is the case, it doesn't explain my personal example of losing a loki to 5 thrashers and a stiletto in about 10 seconds. But using the example in this post, the opposing fleet failed to do 130,000 pts of damage in an extremely short amount of time. I was watching and he jumped into system, decloaked, engaged, was able to kill 1 destroyer before he was killed. He hadnt even made it 1000 meters back towards gate. |
Mag's
the united
20278
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Posted - 2015.09.26 13:06:36 -
[25] - Quote
Not empty quoting.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1481
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Posted - 2015.09.26 13:07:14 -
[26] - Quote
Gimme Sake wrote:Are you sure those stats are bogus?
Yes, very.
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Arla Sarain
660
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Posted - 2015.09.26 13:31:32 -
[27] - Quote
Resistances reduce the damage taken. They don't increase the health pool.
If you have 2 health and a damage type that deals 1 damage but is halved by resistances, it would take you 4 hits to deplete the pool. Which is effectively dealing 1 damage to 4 health. Still takes 4 hits. But you only have 2 health. You can't receive more than that unless it was replenished.
That's what EHP tells you, kind of, because not all resist profiles are uniform. With a DCU, all hull pools are 2.5x times higher against everything. |
Metal Icarus
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
744
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Posted - 2015.09.26 13:53:55 -
[28] - Quote
Is the EHP calculated using omni damage? |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
1481
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Posted - 2015.09.26 13:56:36 -
[29] - Quote
Metal Icarus wrote:Is the EHP calculated using omni damage?
That depends, ingame number is based on your lowest resists per tank type (which is kinda silly), EFT takes the average of all 4 types per tank type (which is probably the most logical). You can use/add damage profiles to EFT and select those and THEN calculate EHP (like figuring out how much EHP you have vs antimatter, the ganker's ammo of choice)
In this case his number correspondents with the EFT #. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4104
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Posted - 2015.09.26 18:15:22 -
[30] - Quote
Gimme Sake wrote:Eft numbers are bogus because they show an omni tank. That tank is fictive because, like you say, all that matters is resists vs damage type. This is true (sort of... EFT considers omni damage unless you tell her otherwise, not omni tank).
Gimme Sake wrote: Are you sure those stats are bogus? Because I think they affect the damage received per alpha volley. For example: a shield will go faster down when shot with em charges even if it has huge em resists while an armor tank with relatively lower em resists will last longer to the same amount of em damage. This is hilarious, in a creative way.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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