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Kitsune Jones
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Posted - 2006.12.23 23:01:00 -
[1]
I've been looking around at various threads trying to get a handle on judging the viability of ships, and have noticed a common theme of 'destroyers are teh sux'.
I don't understand this. Looking at the Coercer, it seems to be head and shoulders better than a Punisher. More turrets, more range, more armor. I'm in a Punisher with three medium pulse lasers with ultraviolet crystals, and while it packs a punch, I get pounded pretty relentlessly while closing to 5km so I can fire. Putting some beam lasers on a Coercer with ultraviolet crystals should give me a range closer to 14km; it seems I would have a far superior rate of fire at a tremendously greater range, and I can't see any downsides to it.
But I'm a newbie, and the people saying the destroyers are garbage are not newbies, so I'm thinking that they must know something I'm missing. Can anyone help enlighten me?
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Wintermoon
Interstellar eXodus
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2006.12.23 23:03:00 -
[2]
1 midslot
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kisu tei
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Posted - 2006.12.23 23:05:00 -
[3]
its only got 1 med slot
if you want a destroyer, take a gallente destroyer. at least it has 2 med slots
destroyers are also only any good in gangs where they can protect bigger ships from the little buggers called frigates. but as no one seems to use frigates in fleet pvp there is no real reason to fly a destroyer
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Jin Jemai
Caldari
Nightgliders
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Posted - 2006.12.23 23:10:00 -
[4]
Destroyers are pretty much good for one thing, as a pre-req for dictors. Sure they can trash L1 missions, but so can assault frigates, a well skilled frigate, and cruisers. Destroyers really don't excel at anything that many other ships can't do. Why take the time training for one when you can just skip to a cruiser and be more effective?
In short, unless you plan on flying Interdictors skip destroyers and just go for a cruiser or assault frigate.
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Elve Sorrow
Amarr
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.23 23:10:00 -
[5]
Another thing, regarding comments on ship X or Y on these forums: The people making them are often PvP vets. They tend to think everyone uses ships for PvP. And destroyers are indeed fairly ****ty for PvP.
Regarding the Coercer itself. Like mentioned, the single midslot doesnt help. It's fairly large sig radius doesnt help. And while it's certainly an improvement over the Punisher, it also loses some advantages. Speed, for one. Sig radius, two. Tanking, three. It also lacks grid, the Punisher doesnt suffer that much from it.
There's another reason, and i think this is the most important one - Destroyers serve no real purpose. The Punisher can do both level 1 and level 2 missions without much trouble. So can the Coercer, obviously. But neither can do level 3 missions very well. It works, granted, but its far from effective. And the Coercer doesnt do level 2 missions alot faster than the Punisher.
Essentially, most people who want to upgrade from the Punisher to something better, or more efficient, or shinier, skip the Coercer alltogether and go for the Assault Frigate, Retribution. Which is a rather awesome mission runner.
Ofcourse, the actual reason is the Coercer looks **** and the Punisher is just stunningly hot.
It's great being Amarr, aint it?
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Wheya
Amarr
Bruderschaft des Wahrhaftigen
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Posted - 2006.12.23 23:12:00 -
[6]
The best defence for small ships is speed and a small sig radius. Destroyers are too easy to hit by enemies. For example a cruiser will have a hard time to hit a fregate while he easily can hit a destroyer.
Destroyers are a better choice if your enemies are very weak (such as level 1 missions). For everything else frigates are the better choice. That's why I still say to avoid the destroyer and go straight to cruiser from fregate even after the good HP boost to destroyers.
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Mortuus
Minmatar
Just-fun
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Posted - 2006.12.24 00:42:00 -
[7]
Tell that to our dessie pilot, who regularly wipes enemy tacklers out one after another.
They work, just not great solo.
ex-Occassus Republica <3 |
Samirol
The Scope
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Posted - 2006.12.24 01:48:00 -
[8]
end game thrashers are awesome
Great being a gallente blasterthron pilot, aint it?
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Kulmid
Nubs.
Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.24 01:51:00 -
[9]
fit 7x 280mm II's and 2x Gyro's on a Thrasher and watch as you instapop intys from 45km
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Audri Fisher
Caldari
The Keep
THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.12.24 03:28:00 -
[10]
while I don't fly thrashers, I do fly the cormorat, and have for some time. I completley agree that "end game" destroyers are awesome, however like the first few posters mentioned, most destroyers flown suck tbh. The reason is pretty simple. Destroyers need near perfect gunnery, fitting, and good tactical sense to shine.
I didn't see the potential in destoryers for pvp until I had hit 4 mil gunnery sp, everything in small hybrid guns/support skills, except for med hybrid turret 3. It is like a light switch tbh. at one point, as you get surgical strike 5, or rapid fire 5, and that intercepter pops for the very first time, it all makes sense.
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Nordvargr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.12.24 03:41:00 -
[11]
When it comes to all out DPS at lowest cost, the pulse coercer is the best you can get. It fails at sniping, I'm not sure why because lasers use more optimal than other guns so it's 50% bonus to optimal should be very helpful, but I'm told it's not a good sniper and I've never seen a sniping coercer in my life.
The cormorant is also a very good extremely high dps destroyer, and a very good rail sniper if you want it to be. I've seen blaster cormorants out-damage me on killmails where I'm hitting something with everything I've got in a close range battleship.
The thrasher is the best sniping destroyer, I love using it on gatecamps. It fails miserably as an autocannon boat, and with the t2 ammo changes it's still a miserable failure just in a different way than before.
The catalyst is the best loot scooper in the game, and that's about all it's good for.
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Nhoj Sllew
Amarr
Interstellar eXodus
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2006.12.24 04:14:00 -
[12]
its got awesome alpha stick for sucka small ship, you can inta-pop pos like nothing. its really cheap for what it can do too. definitely not a solo ship and its not very impressive when you move from frigates the first time. little bit of training and they become much more appealing. just don't even bother trying to tank a coercer.
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Efour
Amarr
Matari Shipworks
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Posted - 2006.12.24 04:56:00 -
[13]
 Originally by: Nhoj Sllew
its got awesome alpha stick for sucka small ship, you can inta-pop pos like nothing.
Yeah i just takes Down POSs all day in my coercer. :) Who needs dreads? when you have 8 med beams.
tee hee
I agree with the rest they have no real use except overkilling lvl 1 missions. and as a salvage ship.
Pvp, weak to anything larger than it and 2 frigates should kill you anyway if they know what they are doings.
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Audemed
Evisceration.
Storm Armada
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Posted - 2006.12.24 06:57:00 -
[14]
Cormorant is by far the best destroyer. Even with my shat skills (destroyers 3 ), I can still hit with 7 guns out to 81km (opt, not falloff). That's MORE than enough to hit any inty that could be hassling you, and it's got a nice bit of DPS to boot. Never tried blasters on it, but that sounds quite sexy....
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Currently stationed in Iraq, 280 days left to go! |
Kitsune Jones
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Posted - 2006.12.24 20:35:00 -
[15]
How on earth can you hit out to 81km? I've yet to see a small turret with a range greater than 10km, or a destroyer with sensors that can get a lock past 30km. I'm very interested in knowing what equipment can boost range that greatly.
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Jessica Iritan
Gallente
Dread Elite
The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2006.12.24 20:58:00 -
[16]
Its actually simple. First, you need the cormie's mids for sensor boosters(Sensor boosters 1's increase target range by 50% and scan resolution by 50%) and using a combination of the Destroyer's optimal skill, Iron ammo, tracking enchaner, and 125mm I's(No way am I shelling 7mil on tech II guns yet) and sharpshooter skill nets me between 35-40km. I can target 81km away and lock pods on 2 seconds. However, Iron ammo pretty much has crappy DPS so its good for sniping. On christmas, I'll have Destroyers 4 trained.. and my PvP ops gang loves me since the ship is expendable, and can make mincemeat of tacklers.
Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today!
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.12.24 21:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kitsune Jones
How on earth can you hit out to 81km? I've yet to see a small turret with a range greater than 10km, or a destroyer with sensors that can get a lock past 30km. I'm very interested in knowing what equipment can boost range that greatly.
Well, let's see.
Cormorant, 36km base targetting range, 45km with LRT5, 49+km in fleet with decently skilled squad commander.
One sensor booster II and you get up to 79+km.
150mm Railgun II has an optimal of 14km, 17.5km with SS5, 26.25 km with ship bonus.
Three tracking computers, you get to around 37km optimal.
With pre-Revelations Spike S, you would have gotten 74km optimal.
So you see... quite reasonable ;)
_
My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Litus Arowar
Amarr
Obsidian Asylum
Pure.
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Posted - 2006.12.24 22:08:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Litus Arowar on 24/12/2006 22:16:34
Originally by: Nordvargr
When it comes to all out DPS at lowest cost, the pulse coercer is the best you can get.
absolutely monstrous ship:
8xMPL2(scorch)
1xWeb
3xHS2 1xCPU2
260+ DPS at 17km, with an absolutely liquifying alpha strike of 630... this means that an inty that moves say 3.5km/s (like a relatively slow taranis) would take a total of 1900 damage by the time it got into web range
anyway, best bang for your buck, if you enjoy fitting t2 gear on cheap ships (as I do)
*EDIT*
oh and the reason it fails at sniping is cause the cormorant and catalyst get range bonuses (10%/level optimal and falloff respectively), and the thrasher has the damage boost (with good overall range to begin with)
also, em damage sucks, as has been beaten to death... it doesn't suck total ass when applied to MPLs with scorch, simply cause the raw DPS can be boosted to such crazy levels... to add insult to injury, the bonuses on the destroyer are the ever-present cap reduction, and tracking, while all other destroyers get tracking and a range or damage bonus
but anyway, since no one flies them, you can bet it won't get adjusted :)
Albert Anastacia> Like they say, adapt or die. I adapted and now I get to Iwinbutton all over everyones face. |
Audri Fisher
Caldari
The Keep
THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.12.24 22:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kitsune Jones
How on earth can you hit out to 81km? I've yet to see a small turret with a range greater than 10km, or a destroyer with sensors that can get a lock past 30km. I'm very interested in knowing what equipment can boost range that greatly.
easy as pie my friend
7 150 mm tehc II's spike ammo
tech II tracking comps, 2 tech II sensor boosters
MAPC
near insta lock on pods, shuttles and frigs.
with dessy 5, I get over 90 km optimal.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari
The Keep
THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.12.24 22:23:00 -
[20]
that's post kali mind you.
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