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Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
   |
Posted - 2006.12.26 20:31:00 -
[151]
 Originally by: Shayla Etherodyne
Originally by: Nimie
.... you can't get a monopoly by winning a bpo. they give like, 7 percent a month. how people think you can start a monopoly by winning a bpo boggles me. at that rate, it'll take you 1 1/4 years to buy another bpo and another 1 1/4 years to get 4 bpos out of the 20 bpos in the game. ...
7% ? Very strange number, can I ask where you have got that?
BTW: normally when speaking of the BPO monopoly, the people speak of top seller items, with huge hoverhead like the Hammeread II
Most of the price rises on items like Hammerhead II's are not driven by manufacturers, they are driven by powerful resellers with hundreads of billions of ISK invested in controlling the market in certain products.
EVE's economic model allows this.
-------------
Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.26 20:31:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Shayla Etherodyne
Originally by: Nimie
.... you can't get a monopoly by winning a bpo. they give like, 7 percent a month. how people think you can start a monopoly by winning a bpo boggles me. at that rate, it'll take you 1 1/4 years to buy another bpo and another 1 1/4 years to get 4 bpos out of the 20 bpos in the game. ...
7% ? Very strange number, can I ask where you have got that?
7% is roughly the return on a BPO that you paid 1-year-profit price on.
-[23] Member-
Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame) |
Nimie
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 20:36:00 -
[153]
7 percent is the return of isk based on asset value, so if i have a 100b bpo, it would only give me 7b in profits per month. what alot of people do not know, is that most t2 bpo's produce very little goods based on the cost to buy the bpo. if you were to compare at typical t2 bpo to a raven bpo for instance, a raven bpo which cost about 1b can produce 180 ships, or about 18b worth of goods. the average 1b isk t2 bpo, if you gave it standard stats for a t2 bpo, would produce 70m worth of goods. so a t1 bpo's 18b worth of goods vs a t2 bpo's 70m. the t2 bpos make money by being almost all profit where as t1 bpos are small profit but large volume. some people wouldn't know, but some t1 bpo's, that cost less than 50m, can make more money than a 3-4b t2 bpo.
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Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2006.12.26 20:41:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Most of the price rises on items like Hammerhead II's are not driven by manufacturers, they are driven by powerful resellers with hundreads of billions of ISK invested in controlling the market in certain products.
Actually Butter Dog, the prices are driven (for by far the most part) by market demand and the supply being limited by the BPO in question.
Resellers merely take advantage of market trends by buying when the market is slack and goods are cheaper, to sell them later at whatever price the market decides it can stomach.
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in? |
Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 21:41:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Originally by: Butter Dog
Most of the price rises on items like Hammerhead II's are not driven by manufacturers, they are driven by powerful resellers with hundreads of billions of ISK invested in controlling the market in certain products.
Actually Butter Dog, the prices are driven (for by far the most part) by market demand and the supply being limited by the BPO in question.
Resellers merely take advantage of market trends by buying when the market is slack and goods are cheaper, to sell them later at whatever price the market decides it can stomach.
You underestimate the power of resellers.
-------------
Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
|
Maximum Panic
|
Posted - 2006.12.26 22:16:00 -
[156]
I spent the last hour reading this thread because I can't log in to the game on xmas holiday...
I feel that I need to add my comments to the pile:
1) I have won the lottery with a high demand mod and make isk every month from the bpo I won. Almost 1B isk/month.
2) I have a freighter alt that checks markets and regulary makes almost 1B isk/month moving minerals, npc goods, and tech 2 items from Jita or other hubs to high demand spots.
3) I run missions and make about 500M isk/month when not in pvp (mostly from implant offers).
4) I fight in pvp every weekend and lose about 1B isk/month in mods, hardwiring implants, ship costs and insurance loses on tech 2 ships.
Because of my monthly income statement I only fly fully fitted tech 2 ships. I feel that I owe it to the game to spend as much of my isk on modules every month. But even at the loss rate I take I am up about 1.5B isk at the end of every month.
Is the lottery broken because I make 1B every month for about 30minutes of work? My hauler/freighter alt makes me 1B isk for about 3 hours of work and 20 hours of afk flying. To enjoy the game I have proven to myself that right now I only need 1B isk per month. ANd that is to fly the best possible tech 2 pvp setups each and every weekend. If you aren't pvping why would you need more to have fun in this game - does every player need to fly a titan and make billions to have fun?
So we should be clamoring to end trade, nerf mission running, and make more pvp losses hurt even more if we also nerf tech 2 bpo isk machines. I will survive either way since I have other income sources than my bpo.
CCP has boosted trade in the last year, increased implant drop rates, and lowered clone costs. Give them a chance and they will get invention right too - they want to balance out availability to the masses. They are trying from what I see to make it easy to make isk so you can have fun blowing up your enemies and yourself and not have to grind too much. However, don't get me started on the fact that this becomes a game of asteroids where one quarter buys you 3 lives if isk costs get too low, rather than an extremely complicated economic space warefare game. |
Astarte Nosferatu
MBN Holding Corporation
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Posted - 2006.12.27 00:03:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Originally by: Butter Dog
Most of the price rises on items like Hammerhead II's are not driven by manufacturers, they are driven by powerful resellers with hundreads of billions of ISK invested in controlling the market in certain products.
Actually Butter Dog, the prices are driven (for by far the most part) by market demand and the supply being limited by the BPO in question.
Resellers merely take advantage of market trends by buying when the market is slack and goods are cheaper, to sell them later at whatever price the market decides it can stomach.
You underestimate the power of resellers.
Hehe, it wouldn't be the first time I've crashed the market price for a particular ship/module, and I'm only a small time reseller with an active capital of 10bil. Entities with 50-100bil+ can easily dominate the market for a T2 module or ship in empire through reselling, even without having a T2 BPO themselves.
Don't blame the T2 producers for high prices, don't blame resellers for high prices, blame the people that actually buy the goods at those high prices. If people aren't buying T2 items at 300% mark up, prices will go down, how difficult it is to believe for some people. Current prices are only there cause people are willing to pay for it.
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Smoking Mirror
Secret Interests Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.27 02:03:00 -
[158]
The lottery should rotate. It's absurd that a t2 lottery should in effect set people up for life.
Here's my suggestion: each time it is used, a blueprint should have a chance to tear, or whatever -- to become defunct.
At that point, the bp is reintroduced into the market via another agent to another player.
The current system is just silly. No lucky little thing should be in effect an isk-printing mechanism.
To the corp boasting about working the system and buying t2 bpos: you've completely missed the point. The person you bought the bpo from is the one who really is the problem here, not you.
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Kal'rek
Minmatar
Black Lotus Heavy Industries
Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
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Posted - 2006.12.27 02:06:00 -
[159]
Nice work.
Glad to see your having fun :-)
Kal'rek
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HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm
Eternal Rangers of Terror
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Posted - 2006.12.27 02:22:00 -
[160]
Edited by: HankMurphy on 27/12/2006 02:22:29
HankMurphy's Official No-nonsense stfu T2 bpo thread reply: Automated Message 14:
BPC lotteries not BPO. More lotteries more often.
End the Money printing machines (bpos themselves), outrageous price gouging and cornered markets all in one swift EASY change.
edit... and lol at that tommy tenkreds guy... whoever you bought your clue from dude... you need to go get a refund 
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Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2006.12.27 03:04:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 27/12/2006 03:07:51
Originally by: HankMurphy
HankMurphy's Official No-nonsense stfu T2 bpo thread reply: Automated Message 14:
BPC lotteries not BPO. More lotteries more often.
End the Money printing machines (bpos themselves), outrageous price gouging and cornered markets all in one swift EASY change.
edit... and lol at that tommy tenkreds guy... whoever you bought your clue from dude... you need to go get a refund
You're just another troll with nothing real to add.
The replacement of T2 BPO's with a BPC driven system, as per your suggestion, would be more likely to screw the T2 market than just about anything else.
T2 BPO's allow committed industrialists to manufacture a consistent regular supply of kit and get it to the market at stable prices. There would be no guarantee of stable supply or price if you replace BPO's with randomly distributed BPC's.
Edit: And btw, you clearly think it's funny to post that same bs in every related thread. It's not, and you're not, so grow up.
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in? |
HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm
Eternal Rangers of Terror
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 03:11:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
The replacement of T2 BPO's with a BPC driven system, as per your suggestion, would be more likely to screw the T2 market than just about anything else.
T2 BPO's allow committed industrialists to manufacture a consistent regular supply of kit and get it to the market at stable prices. There would be no guarantee of stable supply or price if you replace BPO's with randomly distributed BPC's.
rofl. yeah, i like how you try to nit pick ppls arguments, label them as trolls, as if you are really bringing anything special to the table.
now.. my suggestion of replacing bpo's w/ bpc's may screw teh current producers! (<- intended!!) but certainly not the market as a whole.
Your suggestion that bpo's are given to the privledged and lucky so that some kind of stability is entered into the market by doing that is a total joke. there are PLENTY of people out there in the research game the market would always have supply (as not always before w/ all mods/ships but thus the latest lottery) and if there was any price instability, i'm sure the resellers would restore it
nice try, but i have bu11$h1t filtering trained to lvl 5
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HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm
Eternal Rangers of Terror
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Posted - 2006.12.27 03:13:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Edit: And btw, you clearly think it's funny to post that same bs in every related thread. It's not, and you're not, so grow up.
It is.
I am.
I am.
Scream at your monitor, go ahead, try... it wont help.
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Joe
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Posted - 2006.12.27 03:22:00 -
[164]
The lottery is Just a process for distrabution, it ensures anyone particiapting has a chance, not just those who can play 18hr days and Farm.
The Gm's effect the finall amounts of prints Seeded in the game.
People that whine about Tech II prices becuase of 'damm lotteries' are either ignorant of the intended limitations in place, or are just plain Jackass's that Post whines simply for the sake of being heard.
Tech II isnt meant to be easy to produce.
Its not meant to be hard either.
Its simply meant to be Limited
Artificial caps on production are good for the economy, the allow people to set challanging goals, Just Becuase youve got a print that makes you some isk each week ButterDog doesnt make you special, it doesnt indicate a broken system and it certainly doesnt mean that a system thats been in place for years needs to be changed.
Most people that run prints for a while realise that the game's not about isk, its about challanges. If you find the game is 'too easy' now for you, it means your not setting hard enough goals.
Pe0w |
Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 03:52:00 -
[165]
Originally by: HankMurphy
rofl. yeah, i like how you try to nit pick ppls arguments, label them as trolls, as if you are really bringing anything special to the table.
If by "nit pick" you mean break down and analyse then yes, I do that.
You, however, are a troll because you post derision rather than discussion:- Originally by: HankMurphy
lol at that tommy tenkreds guy... whoever you bought your clue from dude... you need to go get a refund
Originally by: HankMurphy
now.. my suggestion of replacing bpo's w/ bpc's may screw teh current producers! (<- intended!!) but certainly not the market as a whole.
Your suggestion that bpo's are given to the privledged and lucky so that some kind of stability is entered into the market by doing that is a total joke.
No, I said that the existence of BPO's allows for stable production and supply to the market.
I did not make any reference to the lottery system, "bpo's given to the privledged and lucky". The fact that you are clearly jealous of lottery winners does not give you the right to misrepresent my argument.
Originally by: HankMurphy
there are PLENTY of people out there in the research game the market would always have supply (as not always before w/ all mods/ships but thus the latest lottery) and if there was any price instability, i'm sure the resellers would restore it
nice try, but i have bu11$h1t filtering trained to lvl 5
It's a shame you don't turn that bs filter on your own drivel then.
Yes, many people carry out research but how can they know which BPC's they might get through your system, or how many runs at a time?
Should they buy component BPO's for every possible BPC they might get then? What about POS apparatus? Should they anchor up one of every type of manufacturing array just in case they get a BPC? That's a lot of cost outlay for an uncertain end.
Or is POS manufacturing moot? Will T2 be built under your "system" in such small quantities and so widely distributed that POS serve no purpose?
"If there was any price instability, i'm sure the resellers would restore it"! What does that even mean? Resellers (by definition) cannot magically create additional supply and they sure as heck won't want to carry a ton of stock that's losing value if BPC's over supply.
BPO's on the other hand allow for the stability I mentioned and also allow for groups or persons to compete for their control. Hence they are strategically important from an economic POV in their own right, unlike BPC's.
Moreover, the fact that they are currently distributed by a lottery system is largely irrelevant when you are looking at their merits as a production game mechanic. You have an axe to grind about the lottery and people who are richer than you? Fine. But BPC's are not the answer for a stable economy.
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in? |
Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 04:09:00 -
[166]
Originally by: HankMurphy
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Edit: And btw, you clearly think it's funny to post that same bs in every related thread. It's not, and you're not, so grow up.
It is.
I am.
I am.
Scream at your monitor, go ahead, try... it wont help.
This actually made me laugh.
It is Christmas after all. Heh.
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in? |
Frug
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 04:22:00 -
[167]
Heheh.
- - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - - |
HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm
Eternal Rangers of Terror
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 04:30:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Yes, many people carry out research but how can they know which BPC's they might get through your system, or how many runs at a time?
Should they buy component BPO's for every possible BPC they might get then? What about POS apparatus? Should they anchor up one of every type of manufacturing array just in case they get a BPC? That's a lot of cost outlay for an uncertain end.
Or is POS manufacturing moot? Will T2 be built under your "system" in such small quantities and so widely distributed that POS serve no purpose?....
BPO's on the other hand allow for the stability I mentioned and also allow for groups or persons to compete for their control. Hence they are strategically important from an economic POV in their own right, unlike BPC's.
Moreover, the fact that they are currently distributed by a lottery system is largely irrelevant when you are looking at their merits as a production game mechanic. Sooner or later, most T2 BPO's end up in the hands of the people who are committed to stable, large scale production.
well tom, basically the way i see it is under a BPC system no one is (or should) know what they are going to get. thats kinda the point. Mix up the whole system. Make research something ppl can do and expect results within a few month period (without having to pick invention).
so that means the market will fall down and no one will be able to find T2 anymore? not hardly, i'm guessing thats what your shooting for w/ your 'stability' argument
it will be harder on the producer. but shouldn't it be? its not easy to rake in money ratting in 0.0. its sure not easy to make a profit pvp'ing. and just like everyone keeps saying, T2 SHOULD BE HARD TO MAKE. right??
(when i mentioned resellers i was referring to price stability as you were not real clear what kind of stability the BPOs would offer over BPCs)
i simply think your (and MOST other bpo holders) arguments are total crap. Like your some kind of elite! Like some kid that picked up the game a few months ago and has been cranking out t1 production wouldn't be able to do as good a job as you? offer the stability you do?
You dont offer anything exclusive as a BPO holder that anyone else couldn't replace w/ a BPC. BPCs would change things, thats for sure!! I believe for the better. The uncertainty, the opportunity for new ppl to pick up the trade!
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
And it's that that really winds you up isn't it? The fact that people are richer than you and better at gaining control of strategic resources. Well cry me a river cos *that* is what Eve is all about.
You have an axe to grind about the lottery and people who are richer than you? Fine. But BPC's are not the answer for a stable economy.
now tom, that sounded more like derision than discussion.
do i have an axe to grind? yes, i think the scale is tipped with thte current system and we are moving away from fixing T2 production, not towards it. its a hot topic and i like to comment my views on it, just like the rest. it is a forum right?
now, is it cause they are richer than me? no, i have more isk than i'll ever know what to do with. is it because they are richer than they should be? THATS THE TICKET! I think (along w/ the devs) that T2 should be more of the norm.
You wanna compete in 0.0 pvp? Well unless your goonfleet w/ 200 t1 frigs, you need T2 to be competative (ESPECIALLY in small gang combat). --> THIS ---> is my issue w/ the system. Some new kid that doesn't have my isk finally trains T2 guns but has to grind level 3 missions for 3 weeks to buy his guns and ammo!
thats where it all comes down. thats the point of it all. T2 producers can argue till the sun comes up that their profits are justified and the system is fine. The fact is, they are greedy. Thank god teh new BCs took a chunk outta the HAC profits, but until guns are realistically priced and T2 ships are close to insurable, your just gonna keep hearing from me and others.
the bs filtering was trained to 5 mate. not 4. seriously... you gonna need a new argument
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HankMurphy
Pelennor Swarm
Eternal Rangers of Terror
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 04:46:00 -
[169]
...and i really dont mind lotteries. great distribution method.
its the fact that the result of the current lottery is a permanent asset award. no running out. UNLIMITED copies. that is stupid.
this is why i say.....
HankMurphy's Official No-nonsense stfu T2 bpo thread reply: Automated Message 14:
BPC lotteries not BPO. More lotteries more often.
End the Money printing machines (bpos themselves), outrageous price gouging and cornered markets all in one swift EASY change.
-----------
sorry, shift is over, now i get to go actually go home and play the game (instead of comment on it!) but dont worry tommy, i will return tommorow
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SlappySquirel
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 05:10:00 -
[170]
Originally by: HankMurphy
...and i really dont mind lotteries. great distribution method.
its the fact that the result of the current lottery is a permanent asset award. no running out. UNLIMITED copies. that is stupid.
this is why i say.....
HankMurphy's Official No-nonsense stfu T2 bpo thread reply: Automated Message 14:
BPC lotteries not BPO. More lotteries more often.
End the Money printing machines (bpos themselves), outrageous price gouging and cornered markets all in one swift EASY change.
-----------
sorry, shift is over, now i get to go actually go home and play the game (instead of comment on it!) but dont worry tommy, i will return tommorow
I very much support the idea of bpc's instead of bpo's - let the current holders keep their bpo's and change invention to drop bpo's - the enormous amount of investment in time and isk would justify the result of a bpo. Meanwhile the current production continues, plus the addition of new supply into the market would stabilize and become more competitive. Furthermore to encourage the rarity of tech2 bpo's and their limited availability with a change to invention for a bpo instead of a bpc, make the data interface a one use item. If your successful you have got a bpo, however if you are not you need to find another data interface bpc, the parts for construction and the data cores...
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Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2006.12.27 05:25:00 -
[171]
Originally by: HankMurphy
well tom, basically the way i see it is under a BPC system no one is (or should) know what they are going to get. thats kinda the point. Mix up the whole system. Make research something ppl can do and expect results within a few month period (without having to pick invention).
so that means the market will fall down and no one will be able to find T2 anymore? not hardly, i'm guessing thats what your shooting for w/ your 'stability' argument
it will be harder on the producer. but shouldn't it be? its not easy to rake in money ratting in 0.0. its sure not easy to make a profit pvp'ing. and just like everyone keeps saying, T2 SHOULD BE HARD TO MAKE. right??
(when i mentioned resellers i was referring to price stability as you were not real clear what kind of stability the BPOs would offer over BPCs)
Yeah I understand your argument. In fact, it is the same POV I held when I first started playing Eve - that all game tokens (i.e. anything that represents portable power) should have built in redundancy after a fixed period.
It is a strong argument and would make for a far more dynamic game, in theory, but I no longer believe it would work for T2, for the reasons I have tried to explain.
That's something we're clearly not going to agree on. I could argue my side again, but I'd just be restating the same arguments and so would you, I expect.
In the end, if you try to make game content too dynamic, you may well find only uncertainty and ultimately apathy.
Originally by: HankMurphy
i simply think your (and MOST other bpo holders) arguments are total crap. Like your some kind of elite! Like some kid that picked up the game a few months ago and has been cranking out t1 production wouldn't be able to do as good a job as you? offer the stability you do?
Of course T2 production would continue to be stable if different people held the BPO's. It's the BPO's that makes it stable not the ownership of them.
The so-called "elite" part applies to the acquisition of control of strategic resources, not the mechanics of cooking up T2 kit.
Originally by: HankMurphy
You wanna compete in 0.0 pvp? Well unless your goonfleet w/ 200 t1 frigs, you need T2 to be competative (ESPECIALLY in small gang combat). --> THIS ---> is my issue w/ the system. Some new kid that doesn't have my isk finally trains T2 guns but has to grind level 3 missions for 3 weeks to buy his guns and ammo!
thats where it all comes down. thats the point of it all.
OK, so now we're discussing the cost of T2 products on the market, rather than the mechanics of production.
That is a separate issue and one that can be resolved to a great extent by increasing supply.
Guess what? CCP just seeded a load more T2 BPO's and they are extremely likely to tweak invention so it works as intended. Supply shouldn't be so much of an issue pretty soon.
Originally by: HankMurphy
T2 producers can argue till the sun comes up that their profits are justified and the system is fine. The fact is, they are greedy.
See, now you're saying that high prices are due to "greedy" manufacturers instead of supply and demand. That alone shows how little understanding you have of the T2 market.
Originally by: HankMurphy
Thank god teh new BCs took a chunk outta the HAC profits, but until guns are realistically priced and T2 ships are close to insurable, your just gonna keep hearing from me.
If it's meant to be limited content, that will never be the case tbh. There will always be people that can afford it and people that can't. That's as intended and part of the competitive nature of the game.
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in? |
Tachy
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 09:36:00 -
[172]
T2 example: Scimitar, Minmatar Logistics Cruiser
Skills:
Industry 5
Cruiser Construction 1
Minmatar Starship Engineering 1
Mechanical Engineering 1
T1 base:
Scythe
Minerals:
Isogen
Nocxium
Morphite
T2 construction components:
Plasma Thruster
Laser Sensor Cluster
Nanomechanical Microprocessor
Fernite Carbide Composite Armor Plate
Nuclear Reactor Unit
Electrolytic Capacitor Unit
Deflection Shield Emitter
Commodities:
Construction blocks
Tools:
R.A.M.- Starship Tech
Hidden Skills:
Hydromagnetic Physics 3
Electromechanical Physics 3
Molecular Engineering 3
Electronic Engineering 3
Nuclear Physics 3
Plasma Physics 3
Required Composites (From complex reactions):
Fernite Carbide
Ferrogel
Sylramic Fibers
Fullerides
Nanotransistors
Hypersynaptic Fibers
Phenolic Composites
Fermionic Condensates
Simple reaction comodities, reactions, multiple POS for the reactors and moon mining ressources, moon scanning and POS fuel are not listed because of space limitations.
That's a lot of different stuff and effort in my book. If you're building the components on your own, you can't build stuff you can sell right of the factory so the finished ship has to fill the gap in your wallet compared to simple T1 production done in the same time.
--*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing.
by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Butter Dog
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2006.12.27 15:32:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Tachy
T2 example: Scimitar, Minmatar Logistics Cruiser
Skills:
Industry 5
Cruiser Construction 1
Minmatar Starship Engineering 1
Mechanical Engineering 1
T1 base:
Scythe
Minerals:
Isogen
Nocxium
Morphite
T2 construction components:
Plasma Thruster
Laser Sensor Cluster
Nanomechanical Microprocessor
Fernite Carbide Composite Armor Plate
Nuclear Reactor Unit
Electrolytic Capacitor Unit
Deflection Shield Emitter
Commodities:
Construction blocks
Tools:
R.A.M.- Starship Tech
Hidden Skills:
Hydromagnetic Physics 3
Electromechanical Physics 3
Molecular Engineering 3
Electronic Engineering 3
Nuclear Physics 3
Plasma Physics 3
Required Composites (From complex reactions):
Fernite Carbide
Ferrogel
Sylramic Fibers
Fullerides
Nanotransistors
Hypersynaptic Fibers
Phenolic Composites
Fermionic Condensates
Simple reaction comodities, reactions, multiple POS for the reactors and moon mining ressources, moon scanning and POS fuel are not listed because of space limitations.
That's a lot of different stuff and effort in my book. If you're building the components on your own, you can't build stuff you can sell right of the factory so the finished ship has to fill the gap in your wallet compared to simple T1 production done in the same time.
Yeah, cos all T2 BPO owners run their own complex reaction farms 
How hard do you think it is to get these items together?
I'll tell you:
* Sit an alt in Jita
* Put up buy orders
* Wait 24 hours
* Put items in factory slot
* ... thats it
-------------
Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
|
Smoking Mirror
Secret Interests Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.27 15:44:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Tommy TenKreds
Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 27/12/2006 03:07:51
Originally by: HankMurphy
HankMurphy's Official No-nonsense stfu T2 bpo thread reply: Automated Message 14:
BPC lotteries not BPO. More lotteries more often.
End the Money printing machines (bpos themselves), outrageous price gouging and cornered markets all in one swift EASY change.
edit... and lol at that tommy tenkreds guy... whoever you bought your clue from dude... you need to go get a refund
You're just another troll with nothing real to add.
The replacement of T2 BPO's with a BPC driven system, as per your suggestion, would be more likely to screw the T2 market than just about anything else.
T2 BPO's allow committed industrialists to manufacture a consistent regular supply of kit and get it to the market at stable prices. There would be no guarantee of stable supply or price if you replace BPO's with randomly distributed BPC's.
Edit: And btw, you clearly think it's funny to post that same bs in every related thread. It's not, and you're not, so grow up.
First, why should we give a crap about "market stability" or any other conjured up, content-less buzzword?
Second, committed industrialists can buy the bpcs that will inevitability hit the market. Companies could be set up that specialize in doing just that. The market can adapt just fine.
Your objections here are completely content-free. As a basic, fundamental design decision, the T2 lottery system is completely borked. Risk-free, life-long, isk-printing mechanisms should not be handed out. It's irrelevant if there are *other* ways to make money, or anything else.
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SSgt Sniper
Gallente
Zekarus Ltd.
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Posted - 2006.12.27 16:16:00 -
[175]
Originally by: LightMee
Originally by: Juwi Kotch
For me, this situation is just not understandable. It's unlogic, stupid, and stubborn.
There are a few hundred players, probably less then 100, in EVE profiting from the present T2 solution. 150,000 are suffering and complaining.
I do not have the problem with the lottery. It is the fact, that there are BPOs being handed out over that lottery. All T2 BPOs should be changed to BPCs, and the lottery should hand out BPCs. That change might **** off a few T2 tycoons, leading to their eventual leaving EVE. But will make all others happier and create a real new and valid mini profession in EVE (BCP researcher/scientist).
Juwi Kotch
There is 20 bpos for each t2 item, and now with ccp doubling the amount of bpos, soon to be 40 for each item. 80 for ammo bpos.
How many t2 items are there, 100? 300? There is thousands of T2 bpos out there, i suppose you think less than 100 people own them all?
Yes. Less than 10 corps own close to 90% of tech II BPOS. ASCN and BoB at one time had the two most massive (and overlapped) pools of tech II BPOS. (ASCN busting apart at the seams may change this a bit).
The ones floating around in empire actually being used for things past alliance 'in house' prouction are definitely less than a hundred people. I'd bet less than fifty tbh.
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Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances.
However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first. |
ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
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Posted - 2006.12.27 16:40:00 -
[176]
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
Yes. Less than 10 corps own close to 90% of tech II BPOS. ASCN and BoB at one time had the two most massive (and overlapped) pools of tech II BPOS. (ASCN busting apart at the seams may change this a bit).
The ones floating around in empire actually being used for things past alliance 'in house' prouction are definitely less than a hundred people. I'd bet less than fifty tbh.
I'd dispute this quite strongly.
Of course, I can't prove it, but neither can you.
I'd also like to add I produce t2 items. Whenever I put items up on the market below average price they all get snapped up in bulk. It's not mister mission runner that decides to buy 100 gadgets, it's the resellers
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.12.27 18:26:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Butter Dog
[...]
Yeah, cos all T2 BPO owners run their own complex reaction farms
How hard do you think it is to get these items together?
I'll tell you:
* Sit an alt in Jita
* Put up buy orders
* Wait 24 hours
* Put items in factory slot
* ... thats it
Just that you got one of the easy to build and easy to sell mods doesn't mean that you can produce the other T2 mods and ships on a competitive level sitting in Jita doing nothing but feeding the component manufacturers without moving your ass.
For building some T2 things you have to do more than just sit in a station and set up a couple of buy orders or you would be way better off building T1 stuff..
The monthly income you stated above speaks volumes about your luck in the lottery. You got one of the easy to build mods that is in high demand and where getting the components cheap is easy. Congratulations.
--*=*=*--
The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing.
by Sharkbait | 2006.09.20 |
Tribunal
FIRMA
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.27 18:43:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Tachy
Originally by: Butter Dog
[...]
Yeah, cos all T2 BPO owners run their own complex reaction farms
How hard do you think it is to get these items together?
I'll tell you:
* Sit an alt in Jita
* Put up buy orders
* Wait 24 hours
* Put items in factory slot
* ... thats it
Just that you got one of the easy to build and easy to sell mods doesn't mean that you can produce the other T2 mods and ships on a competitive level sitting in Jita doing nothing but feeding the component manufacturers without moving your ass.
For building some T2 things you have to do more than just sit in a station and set up a couple of buy orders or you would be way better off building T1 stuff..
The monthly income you stated above speaks volumes about your luck in the lottery. You got one of the easy to build mods that is in high demand and where getting the components cheap is easy. Congratulations.
Then don't claim the lower income BPOs? It's not like CCP forces someone to accept a BPO offer.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Astarte Nosferatu
MBN Holding Corporation
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Posted - 2006.12.28 16:18:00 -
[179]
I think it would be more 'fair' if all ships and modules were massively seeded everyday at 1 isk a piece so everyone that pays 15 bucks a month has the chance to do what he wants. Let's abolish the most advanced economical, social and political structure ever seen in a MMO so everyone can enjoy the game in their own little corner.
Alternatively, let's just all play World of Borecraft.
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BoBoZoBo
Foundation
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2006.12.28 16:24:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu
I think it would be more 'fair' if all ships and modules were massively seeded everyday at 1 isk a piece so everyone that pays 15 bucks a month has the chance to do what he wants. Let's abolish the most advanced economical, social and political structure ever seen in a MMO so everyone can enjoy the game in their own little corner.
Alternatively, let's just all play World of Borecraft.
Right on sister! Lets give EVERYONE billions of isks and throw the whole dynamics to crap. Lets give in to peoples lack of imagination and creativity and just GIVE everyone everything. Lets give them T2 POS AND all the isk they want so they dont have to figure out how to make money other ways.
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Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9 |
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