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xHalcyonx Amarr CyberDyne Industries Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.24 22:50:00 - [1] I am at the point that I am just finishing my learning skills and have msot basic combat skills (small pulse laser 5, small pulse spec 3 and such, electronics and engineering 5, and such) and I am wanting to choose the Best HAC regardless of what I am currently skilled in. To pass the time to getting a HAC I have decided to train for ishkur and enyo (next I will train drones 5, combat drone 4, drone interfacing 4, scout drone op 5 then small blaster and rail spec to 4). After that I must make a decision on which way to go. So, I ask now, which HAC is good for a PvP and PvE environment. The two that I have looked extensively at are the Zealot and the Ishtar.
Future Tense	Posted - 2006.12.24 23:01:00 - [2] Ishtar
Kharakan Amarr Morticus Impendium	Posted - 2006.12.24 23:02:00 - [3] Zealot = retribution on serious steroids. I'm after one myself (just 2 weeks more ;) ) To be honest though, for missions ishtar is probably best as it can tank while the drones do fearsome damage. And by the same method it's apparently quite good at pvp ;) Originally by: Joshua Foiritain (to Dark Shikari) HAHAHA I KNOW YOUR ACCOUUNT NAME TIME TO DIE this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer
Arian Snow Minmatar The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.24 23:19:00 - [4] Munin - because it¦s not quite as outrageously overpriced as other HAC's... Just sort off kiddin' really I can fly HACs and if I was willing to spend I would fly the Munin and Vagabond.. I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all!
Al Thorr Caldari The Wheel	Posted - 2006.12.25 00:09:00 - [5] There is no "Best" Hac - just the pilots who fly them. Regards and seasons greetings Al Thorr "You cant polish a turd" - The new rendered font is living proof.
Tisanta Amarr Privateers	Posted - 2006.12.25 01:22:00 - [6] you are so wrong.. HAC's suck.. unless its a nostar, or vagabond 5-7k/s other than that recons (mainly the pilgrim) will rip most other things to peices... just stay away from rook/falcons since they suck. other than that the only reason to have one of the HAC's is because they look ultra sexy. --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Olev	Posted - 2006.12.25 02:01:00 - [7] for solo... vagabond by far..
Commander Thrawn Tarnak inc.	Posted - 2006.12.25 02:07:00 - [8] Edited by: Commander Thrawn on 25/12/2006 02:07:30 Originally by: Tisanta you are so wrong.. HAC's suck.. unless its a nostar, or vagabond 5-7k/s other than that recons (mainly the pilgrim) will rip most other things to peices... just stay away from rook/falcons since they suck. other than that the only reason to have one of the HAC's is because they look ultra sexy. lol. just lol to the op. zealot is a great ship but has its limitation as a solo ship do to being very vunerable to nos. Ishtar is probably the best hac out there atm, as is the case with most drones boats. but don't look for the "best" hac. just fly what fits your style of combat and what you want to fly.
Segmentor Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.25 02:44:00 - [9] Theyre all great. Eagle? Pop urself some BS solo, from 200km out. Cerb? Passive tank it and go afk, come back and scoop the loot. Zealot? Cam be both a sniper, tanker, close range pulse ganker and a great miner. Sacrielege? Dont know much of it, but those few times i met one it had a scary tank. Vaga? Hit&Run. Nuff said. Muninn? Great frig sniper, scary medium range dmg dealer. Deimos? Gonna rip your pod out of your ship in seconds, from up close. Ishtar? Uhm... Sht, its just too versatile! ----- EVE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH Supporter*
Benglada Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.12.25 03:08:00 - [10] Originally by: Segmentor Theyre all great. Eagle? Pop urself some BS solo, from 200km out. Cerb? Passive tank it and go afk, come back and scoop the loot. Zealot? Cam be both a sniper, tanker, close range pulse ganker and a great miner. Sacrielege? Dont know much of it, but those few times i met one it had a scary tank. Vaga? Hit&Run. Nuff said. Muninn? Great frig sniper, scary medium range dmg dealer. Deimos? Gonna rip your pod out of your ship in seconds, from up close. Ishtar? Uhm... Sht, its just too versatile! Eagle might pop frigates from 200km nothing else, Cerb sucks with a passive tank, --------------------------- Originally by:* Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.

Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.25 04:14:00 - [11] Originally by: Segmentor Theyre all great. Eagle? Pop urself some BS solo, from 200km out. You can't break a BS's tank at 40KM with antimatter, and you're going to do it with spike? Pop frigs and dessies, yes. Hassle cruisers, sure. Pose as a threat to BSes, no effing way. Eagle is uber anti support. Cerb is a great missile toy until you can fly a Nighthawk. Don't fly the other race's HACs. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2006.12.25 04:21:00 - [12] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Segmentor Theyre all great. Eagle? Pop urself some BS solo, from 200km out. You can't break a BS's tank at 40KM with antimatter, and you're going to do it with spike? Pop frigs and dessies, yes. Hassle cruisers, sure. Pose as a threat to BSes, no effing way. Eagle is uber anti support. Cerb is a great missile toy until you can fly a Nighthawk. Don't fly the other race's HACs. "Don't fly the other race's HACs." Lies of the devil, Zealot is amazing along with the Ishtar and the Vaga. The rest are sub-par.
xHalcyonx Amarr CyberDyne Industries Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.25 05:25:00 - [13] Then it's settled...First Ishkur and enyo with T2 medium and light drones along with small blaster and rail specs to 4, then T2 medium Pulse and Beam specs to 4, then AWU to 4 and Zealot and HACs to 4, Ishtar next, T2 Heavy drones and then either drone interfacing to 5 or HACs to 5; Or maybe I will just go to medium rail and blaster specs to 4 for fitting on a deimos. Keep the ideas flowing though, I still got about a week to decide :).
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2006.12.25 06:19:00 - [14] zealot is like... pve ship... if you are in sansha/dark blood region, it's awesome :P It does do nice damage, but the problem is nos/omni armor tanks. Ishtar is just meh, it's like a small dominix... yet... it's exactly that, no more no less. I don't see why you would fly an ishtar over a domi? Domi has, more armor, more slots, better tank, more grid, etc. And if you want your domi to warp as fast as your ishtar, just stick a couple of inertial stabs in the lows - it'll still have a better tank (more nos/better protection vs nos) than your ishtar (pvp wise). If you are going to train amarr cruiser lvl5, i'd suggest taking a look at the curse and the pilgrim instead, i'd pick a curse over a zealot any day for pvp, and pilgrim is really nice for solo work. Eagle is a good enemy support ganker in bigger ops... vagabond is a big inty... All in all, there are very few hacs that have a specific role, that no other ship can do in the game, otherwise there are always cheaper, more effective alternatives. All about target jamming
Shirow Miyazaki Amarr Hunter Military Industries	Posted - 2006.12.25 11:14:00 - [15] From an Amarr pve viewpoint, i'm considering what to fly instead of a prophecy. I am tempted by a Harbinger, but for 10 mill more i can get an armageddon. However, i know that a battleship has a bigger sig radius and will get hurt more by bigger weapons. However, it will take me a LONG time to train for HACs or command ships, both of which look tasty. From what i've gathered, the amarr hacs are a lot like their t1 cruiser base models - the zealot has more shootiness while the sacrilege is a tanking monster. Looking at the skill requirements, it would make sense to train a HAC before going onto command ships, as command ships need heavy assault ship 4. personally i'd prefer a sacrilege, i prefer survivability over shootiness. But this brings an interesting question, should i get a battleship, or stick in my prophecy for the time being? I'm just moving into level 3 missions as 2's were an utter snoozefest, i've had to warp out a couple of times, but my recent foray into tech 2 stuff has meant i stick around for a lot longer than before.
korrey Fusion Enterprises Ltd	Posted - 2006.12.25 20:17:00 - [16] Originally by: Ryysa zealot is like... pve ship... if you are in sansha/dark blood region, it's awesome :P It does do nice damage, but the problem is nos/omni armor tanks. Ishtar is just meh, it's like a small dominix... yet... it's exactly that, no more no less. I don't see why you would fly an ishtar over a domi? Domi has, more armor, more slots, better tank, more grid, etc. And if you want your domi to warp as fast as your ishtar, just stick a couple of inertial stabs in the lows - it'll still have a better tank (more nos/better protection vs nos) than your ishtar (pvp wise). If you are going to train amarr cruiser lvl5, i'd suggest taking a look at the curse and the pilgrim instead, i'd pick a curse over a zealot any day for pvp, and pilgrim is really nice for solo work. Eagle is a good enemy support ganker in bigger ops... vagabond is a big inty... All in all, there are very few hacs that have a specific role, that no other ship can do in the game, otherwise there are always cheaper, more effective alternatives. Well thats not the zealots problem, atm thats omni tanks and nos's problems. It will get fixed in due time. I would rather train for a great ship and wait for it to get fixed, then a good ship and have it get nerfed. And a med nos of your own solves most problems.
Benzo Dharmian	Posted - 2006.12.25 22:00:00 - [17] Originally by: Angus McLean Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Segmentor Theyre all great. Eagle? Pop urself some BS solo, from 200km out. You can't break a BS's tank at 40KM with antimatter, and you're going to do it with spike? Pop frigs and dessies, yes. Hassle cruisers, sure. Pose as a threat to BSes, no effing way. Eagle is uber anti support. Cerb is a great missile toy until you can fly a Nighthawk. Don't fly the other race's HACs. "Don't fly the other race's HACs." Lies of the devil, Zealot is amazing along with the Ishtar and the Vaga. The rest are sub-par. I think he meant that he does not fly as in (has not the skills for) the other races HAC's....
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.25 22:09:00 - [18] With your high drone skills, I would recommend ishtar. Why would you pick zealot in this scenario, where your skills are very much focused on drones? And I agree with people who say there is no best hac, even though Vaga is the only one who can survive a gankcrew jumping in on you. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
QwaarJet Gallente Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.25 22:14:00 - [19] I'd suggest skipping the hacs and going for command ships, which are better in every way. If not, then I suggest an Ishtar or Zealot. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2006.12.26 00:03:00 - [20] Originally by: Benzo Dharmian Originally by: Angus McLean Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Segmentor Theyre all great. Eagle? Pop urself some BS solo, from 200km out. You can't break a BS's tank at 40KM with antimatter, and you're going to do it with spike? Pop frigs and dessies, yes. Hassle cruisers, sure. Pose as a threat to BSes, no effing way. Eagle is uber anti support. Cerb is a great missile toy until you can fly a Nighthawk. Don't fly the other race's HACs. "Don't fly the other race's HACs." Lies of the devil, Zealot is amazing along with the Ishtar and the Vaga. The rest are sub-par. I think he meant that he does not fly as in (has not the skills for) the other races HAC's.... HAHA omg I feel like a nub cake. Thanks for pointing that out heh.

Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2006.12.26 00:04:00 - [21] Originally by: Jim McGregor With your high drone skills, I would recommend ishtar. Why would you pick zealot in this scenario, where your skills are very much focused on drones? And I agree with people who say there is no best hac, even though Vaga is the only one who can survive a gankcrew jumping in on you. QFT about the vaga
xHalcyonx Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2006.12.26 00:15:00 - [22] In regards to the Ishtar, are T1 Heavy Drones (Berserker I and Ogre I) good enough while I train for T2 Heavy Drones? (Skills would be Drones 5, Combat Drone Operation 4, Drone Interfacing 4, Scout Drone Operation 5, and Heavy Drones 4, Minmatar & Gallente Drone Specs to 3)
Amun Krul	Posted - 2006.12.26 00:51:00 - [23] Edited by: Amun Krul on 26/12/2006 00:52:09 Edited by: Amun Krul on 26/12/2006 00:52:00 Ishtar is a fantastic ship, I fly with T1 heavy's, work fine with drone interfacing 4 heavy drone 4. As far as planning towards a HAC, jump in a Vexor buy a few Thorax's head put and have a few fights, have fun see which you prefer. Diemos is very hard to fit especially for low SPers. at the guy giving assesments on the various HAC's. BS at 200km nub. If I ever hear of anyone mining in a zealot..........
Verizana Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.26 01:01:00 - [24] Cerberus. Dont ask, just train. T2 Hardeners and a Gistii A-Type SB. 'Nuff said.
Face Value	Posted - 2006.12.26 03:11:00 - [25] Originally by: Segmentor Ishtar? Uhm... Sh*t, its just too versatile! You said it all right there. =)
Segmentor Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.26 03:28:00 - [26] Originally by: Amun Krul at the guy giving assesments on the various HAC's. BS at 200km nub. If I ever hear of anyone mining in a zealot.......... Well allright, maybe not solo, but in packs of 3+ they can cause some serious trouble, and theyre not that far off those 200km anyway. Mining Zealot, that was a joke ffs. I dont even fly the ship, and hate mining. ----- EVE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH Supporter
Amun Krul	Posted - 2006.12.26 11:45:00 - [27] Originally by: Segmentor Originally by: Amun Krul at the guy giving assesments on the various HAC's. BS at 200km nub. If I ever hear of anyone mining in a zealot.......... Well allright, maybe not solo, but in packs of 3+ they can cause some serious trouble, and theyre not that far off those 200km anyway. Mining Zealot, that was a joke ffs. I dont even fly the ship, and hate mining. BS losers a little shield thinks 'wtf are those eagles doing scratching me 200km away' and warps off.......
xHalcyonx Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2006.12.27 19:12:00 - [28] What are the pros and cons of the Ishtar and Zealot. I plan to run primarily in Gank Squads and HAC Patrol gangs. Which is more suited to those situations?
Tisanta Amarr Privateers	Posted - 2006.12.27 19:29:00 - [29] pros of ishtar is that it can do HUGE DPS and tank like a *****.. cons of the ishtar is that it is very much close range and if you use turrets enamy nos will be an issue. zealot is a pretty quick ship with an amazing tank.. long range and its very powerful. downside to this ship is once again its very cap reliant so that enamy nos will screw this ship pretty badly.. but for anti battlecruiser or anti hac purposes i would say its a nice one. if you want a nice cruiser class ship that you can solo just about anything in try the pilgrim or the curse since the curse is pretty much invincible in 1v1s ( you cant scram someone with no cap left) and the pilgrim gives you the choice of targets and still hits very very hard. im pretty sure a curse can beat any other ship than caldari passive tank solo.. though i may be wrong since it has the tracking disruptors and an evil tank with a mwd. --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Captain Crimson Wisemen Foundation	Posted - 2006.12.27 23:31:00 - [30] As al thorr said, there is no "best" HAC, it depends on circumstances. I used to think they were OMFGPWNMOBILES... but no. In general HACs can be really good or just tin cans with "pop me i cost 10 times im worth" on it. It depends on the number of skillpoints you have. At the OP... For PvP, depends what the rest of your gang is flying (PvPing solo nowadays is like having sex with a turned on toaster) and for PvE, Just go for a raven, less training time, more PvE carnage. 'What do you mean, where's the treasure? It's in this chest: ****ography and biscuits! Yarrr!'

xHalcyonx Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2006.12.28 00:18:00 - [31] Edited by: xHalcyonx on 28/12/2006 00:22:57 Edited by: xHalcyonx on 28/12/2006 00:19:05 Ok, my primary goal has shifted into a perfect combination. I am thinking that I will train for Ishkur (with drones being T2 Lights, T2 Mediums, T1 Heavies, and Sentries in the beginning), followed by Ishtar, then I would train for Recon ships (I would use Arazu to get the hang of Recon Ships, also my drone skills will be good). Next I would train Drone interfacing to 5 to effectively and efficiently increase drone DPS, then train HACS to 5, followed by training Recons to 5. Next would come T2 Heavy drones followed by Amarr Cruiser to 5 and Medium Beam and Pulse specs to 4 (this would allow me to use both the Amarr Recons and Zealot effectively). Lastly I would finish off with Combat Drone Operation to 5 to give me the last 5% of drone damage and to top it all off, Gallente BS to 4 in order to use a fully T2 fitted NOS-Dominix. This is looking into the future for the next year or so. I would get the Ishkur around Mid-March, teh Ishtar in late May / early June, Gallente Recons in October, Amarr Recons in November, finishing with Zealot and Dominix in December. This skill plan I believe will create and very specialized droneboat character along with the aility to effectively train Amarr Command Ships should I ever chooose to do so. Tell me what you think of my plan please. :)
Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.28 00:22:00 - [32] Basically: Deimos - crap Muninn - crap Sacriledge - crap Eagle - very limited, subpar. Zealot - nice damage, inflexible. Decent. Cerberus - Mission running madness. Can't get any better than this except Navy Raven and even that's a tossup. Ishtar - very nice in smallgroup PvP, drones are cumbersome tho. A hell to fit and lost a lot of its glory compared to when it was just out. Still second best. Vagabond - God. No doubt about it. Useless for PvE tho, but it's playing Eve in godmode for PvP. Originally by: "Cy4n1d3" You can't PVP with 4 mids.
Constantine Arcanum Gallente IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2006.12.28 00:52:00 - [33] just DON'T GET THE SACRILEGE FOR GOD'S SAKE! I helped - Cortes What a shiny and lovely place here - Eshtir Well lets make it a party atleast :D -Xorus RAWWWR!11!!1!2 SIG HIJACK!!11!1 I found it first, get orrrfff moiiii laaannnd - Cortes
Mr Bigglesworth Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.28 00:55:00 - [34] Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Basically: Deimos - crap Muninn - crap Sacriledge - crap Eagle - very limited, subpar. Zealot - nice damage, inflexible. Decent. tad narrowminded, dont you think? Deimos - Good in small gangs. Very difficult to get the most out of. Paper-thin, like most hacs. Muninn - Excellent Anti-support, much like the eagle. Range isnt as nice, but can still reach over 100k. Tracking bonus really helps pop that support. Also pretty decent with autocannons/mwd for small gangs. Sacriledge - An oddball. I personally hated the change to laser damage bonus. Just a rubbish zealot now. It can tank well though.. which means its not very viable for most types of pvping. Damage lacking too compared to its brother. Eagle - Excellent anti support. You can make a decent blastereagle too, thanks to oodles of PG. Can be a nice surpise for small gangs. Zealot - Very nice damage with pulse. Beams are quite useful too. With decent skills you can hit over 100k. Very fast and nimble, excellent for all types of gangs. Without a doubt, however, the Vagabond, Zealot, Cerberus and Ishtar are the HAC's of choice if money is no object. All very nice and specialised. Ask yourself, what do you like to do most? Roam about on your own much? Have 3mill skillpoints on drones? Do much missioning/have 10mill in missiles? They are all decent, just pick whatever you think you'd get the most out of (environment and skill point wise)
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.28 05:01:00 - [35] Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 28/12/2006 05:02:25 Originally by: Angus McLean Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Segmentor Theyre all great. Eagle? Pop urself some BS solo, from 200km out. You can't break a BS's tank at 40KM with antimatter, and you're going to do it with spike? Pop frigs and dessies, yes. Hassle cruisers, sure. Pose as a threat to BSes, no effing way. Eagle is uber anti support. Cerb is a great missile toy until you can fly a Nighthawk. Don't fly the other race's HACs. "Don't fly the other race's HACs." Lies of the devil, Zealot is amazing along with the Ishtar and the Vaga. The rest are sub-par. You read me as saying to people to not fly min/amarr/gal HACs, I meant that I can only fly Caldari HACs. I Don't fly other races HACs is what I meant. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Xiaodown Dragons Of Redemption Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.28 06:32:00 - [36] Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Basically: Deimos - crap Muninn - crap Sacriledge - crap Eagle - very limited, subpar. Riiiiight, a blaster eagle is sub par. Who wants to have wrecking shots of close to 700 dmg each? Not me, I'd rather suck eggs! Blaster eagle has an amazing tank, kick ass damage, and sick range. It isn't as good as the "big three" (ishtar, cerb, vaga), but it's an effing great ship.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.28 06:46:00 - [37] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 28/12/2006 06:49:59 Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Basically: Deimos - crap Muninn - crap Sacriledge - crap Eagle - very limited, subpar. Zealot - nice damage, inflexible. Decent. Cerberus - Mission running madness. Can't get any better than this except Navy Raven and even that's a tossup. Ishtar - very nice in smallgroup PvP, drones are cumbersome tho. A hell to fit and lost a lot of its glory compared to when it was just out. Still second best. Vagabond - God. No doubt about it. Useless for PvE tho, but it's playing Eve in godmode for PvP. Thats a biased opinion if I ever saw one... most likely you cant even fly half of these ships and are only repeating what you see in these forums. Vagabond is a god? Maybe at running away from danger, yeah. But it has like half the dps of the other hacs and no more tank than a few shield extenders... god? I beg to differ. Stabber is god too? To the OP, ishtar is a good choice for gallente, you'll most likely love it if you are into drones. Even though the dominix is probably better to be honest. Much cheaper with better damage and slots. But if you want a drone HAC, well, then there is only one. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.28 08:53:00 - [38] I can actually pilot all but the Amarr ones. Seriously a Deimos and Sacriledge are as worthless as it gets for PvP. Granted, Deimos is quite good for zero space belt ratting but its ammo use = meh. And a Muninn... yeh it's so good that it costs 1/3 of the other HAC's. A Blaster eagle is "kinda" fun but kills its tank which is the whole point of the ship since it doesn't have really good damage for a HAC. Sure it works against nublets, but now try and get it in range. Ishtar is extremely versatile but with Nos all over, its pity for a capacitor, extremely limited fittings and Kali's increased hitpoints it lost a lot of what made it so good. I used to safely engage battleships with it confident I had a good chance of at least getting away if things went not as I wanted. These days you gotta run from a Battlecruiser... Vagabond is god in that it simply never dies. It can choose whatever fight it wants and doesn't want. Now, I'm not too skilled up on a Vaga since it's my industrial alt that can fly it, but I got corpmates zipping around 15 enemy ships with it, invulnerable to them, ripping apart an interceptor smack in the middle of them and then warping off, to come back in repeat the same trick two minutes later. Oh and all under sentry fire too. Ishtar and Vagabond are both miles and miles ahead of the other HAC's. Saying otherwise makes you as clueless as you generally say others are. Originally by: "Cy4n1d3" You can't PVP with 4 mids.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.28 09:03:00 - [39] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 28/12/2006 09:04:12 Muninn cost 1/3 of the other ships because people prefer the Vagabond. Muninn is basicly a alpha strike sniper for medium range, and its not really a very popular role in the game. Also its minmatar, which further makes less people able to fly it. Vaga provides a unique hit & run role which no other ship except perhaps the stabber do almost as well. Thats why its very popular. I hear magical stories of uber vagabonds in these forums every day, but the pilots flying them are so jacked up with implants that they frigging shake. Its not the ship that is uber, its the implants. Same with the stupid Ravens using crystal implants, tanking several other battleships like its nothing. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Durethia Momentum. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.28 09:49:00 - [40] Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Seriously a Deimos and Sacriledge are as worthless as it gets for PvP. Granted, Deimos is quite good for zero space belt ratting but its ammo use = meh. And a Muninn... yeh it's so good that it costs 1/3 of the other HAC's. Ishtar and Vagabond are both miles and miles ahead of the other HAC's. Saying otherwise makes you as clueless as you generally say others are. People need to stop listening to this nonsense. Look, ALL HACs shine in their roles. And a very well skilled Deimos pilot will destroy your average Vagabond should it get close enough to bump it. First off, yes, the Vagabond and Ishtar are "awesome at PvP". But, what the unspoken and more specific part is.... "awesome at 1v1 belt rat piracy". While that's fun and mundane, it certainly isn't PvP in it's entirity. For instance, within huge fleet battles, there's nothing more worthless than a Curse/Pilgrim/Dominix AND Ishtar! Vagabond doesn't really shine all that much in Huge Fleet Battles, becuase it CAN'T REALLY perform like the same pilot in an Interceptor. Now, is the Deimos good for atleast something in huge fleet battles? Yeah, taking out hostile fighter drones, amazingly effective support roles should an enemy fleet manage to land on top of you. The ONLY reason people THINK the Vaga and Ishtar is so good, is becuase they are actually pretty good at SOLO PvP. Both actually quite suck comparatively to other HACs in gang environments and considering that most engagements these days are "blob warfare"... I fail to see why people haven't started expanding their horizons yet. Want to see where a Sacrilege shines? It has an unbelievable tank, it's a HAC... duh! Instead of tossing some lame newbie Taranis pilot to run around the belts, just send in a Sacrilege as bait. (People are starting to do this!) Nice juicy HAC for the killboards eh? So a few people decide to aggro it, interdictor jumps in, warps to sac drops a bubble, local bumps, Sacrilege is STILL alive, good guys arrive... "gg, gf, awesome fight, you suck, LOL zomg!"... Deimos sucks? What if his wingman is just either a Curse, Rook, Ishtar? Just two ships mate. You won't have time to call your friends! Before you say one or the other HACs suck, ignore it if you CAN fly it, judge it only if your ABLE to fly it.

DarkElf Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts	Posted - 2006.12.28 09:58:00 - [41] Edited by: DarkElf on 28/12/2006 09:58:21 Originally by: Durethia And a very well skilled Deimos pilot will destroy your average Vagabond should it get close enough to bump it. That's just the point. it never will get close enough. DE
Abaroth Charmar	Posted - 2006.12.28 14:30:00 - [42] The Sacrilege is probably the best heavy tackler in the game if you know what you're doing with it.
DarkElf Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts	Posted - 2006.12.28 15:45:00 - [43] Edited by: DarkElf on 28/12/2006 15:45:15 Originally by: Abaroth Charmar The Sacrilege is probably the best heavy tackler in the game if you know what you're doing with it. your quite right. that is the only real role that it's good for. twin med rep tank with plate, cap injected with hac lvl4 or 5 it tanks like a beast. dmg with a good tank is laughable but that's why it's only a tackler DE
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2006.12.28 16:16:00 - [44] Originally by: Captain Crimson As al thorr said, there is no "best" HAC, it depends on circumstances. I used to think they were OMFGPWNMOBILES... but no. In general HACs can be really good or just tin cans with "pop me i cost 10 times im worth" on it. It depends on the number of skillpoints you have. At the OP... For PvP, depends what the rest of your gang is flying (PvPing solo nowadays is like having sex with a turned on toaster) and for PvE, Just go for a raven, less training time, more PvE carnage. with that statement you are supposing the OP is men or woman? If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2006.12.28 16:17:00 - [45] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 28/12/2006 05:02:25 Originally by: Angus McLean Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: Segmentor Theyre all great. Eagle? Pop urself some BS solo, from 200km out. You can't break a BS's tank at 40KM with antimatter, and you're going to do it with spike? Pop frigs and dessies, yes. Hassle cruisers, sure. Pose as a threat to BSes, no effing way. Eagle is uber anti support. Cerb is a great missile toy until you can fly a Nighthawk. Don't fly the other race's HACs. "Don't fly the other race's HACs." Lies of the devil, Zealot is amazing along with the Ishtar and the Vaga. The rest are sub-par. You read me as saying to people to not fly min/amarr/gal HACs, I meant that I can only fly Caldari HACs. I Don't fly other races HACs is what I meant. lol yeah someone pointed that out to me earlier, reading for the loss
Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:11:00 - [46] Quote: People need to stop listening to this nonsense. Look, ALL HACs shine in their roles. And a very well skilled Deimos pilot will destroy your average Vagabond should it get close enough to bump it. Talking about nonsense... How exactly is a slow turning, slow flying (think 1400 m/s with t2 MWD and no plate) even gonna get remotely close to a Vagabond that sticks around at falloff, well outside web range, turns quick and moves about 2500 m/s without any form of implants or uber mods. Quote: First off, yes, the Vagabond and Ishtar are "awesome at PvP". But, what the unspoken and more specific part is.... "awesome at 1v1 belt rat piracy". While that's fun and mundane, it certainly isn't PvP in it's entirity. Ishtar isn't too good at belt piracy actually, cos it's so frigging slow. It's kinda the opposite of a Vagabond. It can kill a lot, but it can't catch a thing and is easy to kill once you can jump on it with a few ships. A Vaga can't kill an awful lot solo, but it can catch anything and needs a whole fleet to jump on it with triple webbers and all to get killed. Quote: For instance, within huge fleet battles, there's nothing more worthless than a Curse/Pilgrim/Dominix AND Ishtar! Inherent fleet problems with close range ships that rely on drones have really nothing to do with how good a ship is. All HAC's are crap in a fleet except the Eagle in its limited role of support sniper. Quote: Vagabond doesn't really shine all that much in Huge Fleet Battles, becuase it CAN'T REALLY perform like the same pilot in an Interceptor. Or an Interdictor. Or a frigging tech 1 fitted Merlin. Who cares? HAC's are not made for fleet roles. It's a heavy assault cruiser. Not a heavy tackling cruiser. You're supposed to assault things with it; something a Vagabond excels it. Quote: Now, is the Deimos good for atleast something in huge fleet battles? Yeah, taking out hostile fighter drones, amazingly effective support roles should an enemy fleet manage to land on top of you. Assumption 1: enemy fleet has a carrier Assumption 2: you're foolish enough to let it get on top of you Even then, I'd rather take a, say Thorax or Brutix which can perform the same role just as well at a fraction of the cost. Quote: The ONLY reason people THINK the Vaga and Ishtar is so good, is becuase they are actually pretty good at SOLO PvP. Both actually quite suck comparatively to other HACs in gang environments and considering that most engagements these days are "blob warfare"... Only HACs good in blob warfare are the Eagle and the Muninn that does the same as an Eagle at half the effectiveness (and granted a third of the cost). People are saying the Vagabond and the Ishtar are good because they ARE good. Quote: Want to see where a Sacrilege shines? It has an unbelievable tank, it's a HAC... duh! Instead of tossing some lame newbie Taranis pilot to run around the belts, just send in a Sacrilege as bait. (People are starting to do this!) Nice juicy HAC for the killboards eh? So a few people decide to aggro it, interdictor jumps in, warps to sac drops a bubble, local bumps, Sacrilege is STILL alive, good guys arrive... "gg, gf, awesome fight, you suck, LOL zomg!"... Once you have that happen once, fraps it make a movie and show it because this is just... :roll:]... extremely hypothetical situation plus your Sac could better have been an Apoc with triple injectpor if it wants to survive for more than 15 seconds. Quote: Deimos sucks? What if his wingman is just either a Curse, Rook, Ishtar? Just two ships mate. You won't have time to call your friends! Yes Deimos sucks. It's too slow, too heavy and too predictable. Yes it can hit for omgwtfouchthathurstmommy damage at 10-11km but that's it. And I'm out of characters now (CCP do something about your post length limit, seriously)... Originally by: "Cy4n1d3" You can't PVP with 4 mids.
Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:15:00 - [47] Originally by: Jim McGregor I hear magical stories of uber vagabonds in these forums every day, but the pilots flying them are so jacked up with implants that they frigging shake. Its not the ship that is uber, its the implants. Same with the stupid Ravens using crystal implants, tanking several other battleships like its nothing. Magical stories? Do you ever undock or are you only forum whoring all day? I only see you telling magical stories about Muninn being so cheap cos it's "unpopular" only because the Vagabond is so hot. That same logic certainly didn't affect Sacriledge or Deimos prices did it? As for the Vaga, with Inertia Stabs it has gotten even more ridiculous and tbh if you can afford a 250mil Vagabond you can afford a Domination MWD and some local hullmods to easily break 3,5k/sec without implants. Originally by: "Cy4n1d3" You can't PVP with 4 mids.
Angus McLean Gallente Divinity Trials	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:15:00 - [48] "Once you have that happen once, fraps it make a movie and show it because this is just... :roll:]... extremely hypothetical situation plus your Sac could better have been an Apoc with triple injectpor if it wants to survive for more than 15 seconds." This isnt hypothetical at all, this happens every day mate. The sac has an amazing tank and is one of the best tacklers. and just a small fyi, no one uses 3 cap injectors on an apoc...if you need that much cap, your doing something wrong, or your in a situation that you wont get out of.
Sergis Caldari Life Extermination Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:22:00 - [49] Originally by: Benglada Originally by: Segmentor Theyre all great. Eagle? Pop urself some BS solo, from 200km out. Cerb? Passive tank it and go afk, come back and scoop the loot. Zealot? Cam be both a sniper, tanker, close range pulse ganker and a great miner. Sacrielege? Dont know much of it, but those few times i met one it had a scary tank. Vaga? Hit&Run. Nuff said. Muninn? Great frig sniper, scary medium range dmg dealer. Deimos? Gonna rip your pod out of your ship in seconds, from up close. Ishtar? Uhm... Sh*t, its just too versatile! Eagle might pop frigates from 200km nothing else, Cerb sucks with a passive tank, I'm asking myself if this guy has ever set foot into 0.0 and watched an Eagle fight. Just because you need more SP in Caldari Hacs than other doesn't mean they suck. Eagles will rip away shield and armour befor you can get to them in any cruiser (T1 or T2) and some BCs. If they run into a BS they just stay at 230kms and start shooting there is no way in hell it would catch them without a webber drone. --- http://www.freewebs.com/brodieslife/Gin%20Rummy%20Boondocks.jpg
Sergis Caldari Life Extermination Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:25:00 - [50] Honestly all HACs are good. They just are. Get them in a pack of three with different roles and you can own a galaxie. I'd say go with: Eagle/Vagabond/Zealot Cerberus/Deimos/Sac There are many more amazing threesomes that can WTFPWNABLEMOBILE anything... Tell me some f your threesome suggestions, my friends and I (you love the grammar) would love to hear them. --- http://www.freewebs.com/brodieslife/Gin%20Rummy%20Boondocks.jpg

Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.28 18:11:00 - [51] Originally by: Angus McLean "Once you have that happen once, fraps it make a movie and show it because this is just... :roll:]... extremely hypothetical situation plus your Sac could better have been an Apoc with triple injectpor if it wants to survive for more than 15 seconds." This isnt hypothetical at all, this happens every day mate. The sac has an amazing tank and is one of the best tacklers. and just a small fyi, no one uses 3 cap injectors on an apoc...if you need that much cap, your doing something wrong, or your in a situation that you wont get out of. Well if it happens every day feel free to fraps it for me and host it somewhere. Shouldn't be too hard if it's all that common no? The Apoc I was mentioning was the one that was bait to get jumped by a bunch of hostiles and then survives long enough to have a dictor warp in, drop a bubble, have the gang of friendlies warp in, load the screen, warp to the "bait" and then kill the hostiles with the bait still alive. Not gonna happen. Been there, done that, got the killmail. Both sides of the fence. Thinking up weird niche roles for HAC's to make them useful doesn't make them less crap, you know. Originally by: "Cy4n1d3" You can't PVP with 4 mids.
Skyburn Fireblade Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2006.12.28 18:26:00 - [52] HACs are pure r@pe in small groups. They aren't so hot for fleet ops and I would almost always switch to a sniper BS or tackler inty. But a pair of HACs with a few inties and maybe a recon or two make for absolutely brutal roaming gank squads.
xHalcyonx Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2006.12.30 23:02:00 - [53] What pitfalls should I be aware of for the Zealot? I plan at first to fit it mainly with T2 and cheap faction gear, and later on more expensive faction/officer gear.
Kalek Astroth Amarr The Electrocuted	Posted - 2006.12.31 06:43:00 - [54] Edited by: Kalek Astroth on 31/12/2006 06:43:48 zealot is good very nice ship imo just cant go solo (need only a buddy btw) you can tank it as (and even more than) a sacrilege or go for a full dmg set up (still a nice tanked ship with 3 heath sink) you can engage fom 1 to 30 km you will take lot of final blow too on kmails cause of the impressive rof of that ship ishtar is good , most ppl think is better (than zealot) and probably it is , plenty of space on drone bay mixed with nice meds are great for the solo hunter remember only that 8/10 bs>bc>hac>cruiser>af>frigate a nicely fitted tier2 bc will own your hac most of the times for half the price
Ngwee Gallente 7 SAI	Posted - 2006.12.31 09:32:00 - [55] Prepares to get hate mail. I bought a Sacrilege for my 2nd account to use as a support ship for my mission runnning. Ive never regretted it at all - the cap is superb and lets me Double Heavy NOS it as well as run 2 medium sheild transfers to my Raven permanently. Factor in the 3 small sheild maintanence drones on top of that and my Raven has an absolutely awesome tank. The resists are enough to let the Sac survive and run if targetted and as a bonus I can fit 2 or more tractor beams to quckly collect loot. In short for what I use it for the Sac is perfect. (I will very likely upgrade to a logistics ship when ive finished HAC 5 - but right now its perfect.)
xHalcyonx Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.01.03 01:39:00 - [56] Edited by: xHalcyonx on 03/01/2007 01:40:27 Originally by: Verizana Cerberus. Dont ask, just train. T2 Hardeners and a Gistii A-Type SB. 'Nuff said. After heavily weighing and considering my options over the last week, I have decided to go for the Cerberus. It will take 4 days less to get factoring in all similar skills to their gunnery and mechanic counterparts and will be within 500k SP of the Zealot route. I have decided that missles are right for me for the time being, as for the next few months I will be primarily PvEing with a friend (who is going into a nighthawk in about 3 months). After getting a Cerb, I will then skill my way up to the Nighthawk. I will take both HACs and Command ships to 5. After that I plan to get all necessary skills for Zealot, which will also give me the skills to pilot the Absolution. Hopefully, by the time I get that far, Amarr will have been given better boni or a focusing crystal set with different damage types.
Kalek Astroth Amarr The Electrocuted	Posted - 2007.01.03 06:09:00 - [57] nice decision GL
teth'eala Caldari Grey Scribes Inc	Posted - 2007.01.03 06:45:00 - [58] sort of off topic but factoring in the isk cost and sp cost is the ishtar really all that better than the dominix? do you have a loved one that's playing wow? give them a hug and tell tham that if they need a real mmo they can look no farther than eve
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.03 07:10:00 - [59] Originally by: Angus McLean "Once you have that happen once, fraps it make a movie and show it because this is just... :roll:]... extremely hypothetical situation plus your Sac could better have been an Apoc with triple injectpor if it wants to survive for more than 15 seconds." This isnt hypothetical at all, this happens every day mate. The sac has an amazing tank and is one of the best tacklers. and just a small fyi, no one uses 3 cap injectors on an apoc...if you need that much cap, your doing something wrong, or your in a situation that you wont get out of. The "situation" is sending the ship in as bait "oooh, HAC on the killboard" and the HAC is supposed to survive until friends arive from 1 system over. That situation is more easily done by a battleship. the Above example is probably a tripple rep Apoc which have 3 injectors so it can run all those reps[and probably nos as opposed to guns in the highs] The point is that the Apoc can survive just as well as bait[and its bait, so the sac would be set up as such]. Truthfully an Abaddon is probably even better at the role. 2 reps, 3 hardeners, 1 EAN, 1 DC will make for a spectacular tank. 4 mid slots for cap and highs full of NOS. The Abaddon gets the benefit of being unsurable, and having the enemy think "easy teir 3 bs kill, its going to be out of cap in a minute!" Truly, the Sacriledge cannot do anything that a cheaper ship[Prophecy] cant do nearly as well, and insurable ships[apoc/baddon] cant do stunningly better. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Amith Silvermoon ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.03 09:06:00 - [60] Zealot is a very solid ship, ive only ever lost one and that was when someone drop a carrier on my head while agressed and in a bubble. In extended fight u while have problem with cap when using conflag. But make sure u get ur skill to a good level before taking it out the few percent u ge per a lvl dont seem much but ti make a world of diffrence



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