Originally by: j0sephine

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"Assuming you have access to the two best research agents (L4, Quality over +10) in each of the three research corps of a specific empire (just get over 7.0 standing with empire, run a couple of missions to get the basic needed, and maxed out social/science skills (connections 5, nego 5, research project management 5, the corresponding sciences at L5)..."

It should be probably kept in mind, if the system is supposed to allow average player to participate in tech.2 production... this kind of agent access/training is something only the most dedicated and focused mission *****s are going to meet. So perhaps datacore access should be tuned for lower player abilities.

Then again, TomB said they didn't want the datacores to flood the market as soon as the system is deployed, so maybe high cost is intentional and will eventually be relaxed o.O;

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Originally by: Lady Noir

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Two minmitar corps do mechanical engineering, boundless and CC, CC only have two mechanical agents, boundless have 6, but only 2 of them are any good, possibly a 3rd which is decent,

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Originally by: Tanis Bastar

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Originally by: Lady Noir

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Two minmitar corps do mechanical engineering, boundless and CC, CC only have two mechanical agents, boundless have 6, but only 2 of them are any good, possibly a 3rd which is decent,

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Lady Noir in return for all of your info re Invention I will point out that almost all Thukker Mix R&D agents also offer M/E, but all but one are Level 1 or 2. Thukker seems to be considered Minmatar for BPO purposes (Vaga, baby...).

Also, does anyone else find it bizarre and screwed up that the T1 BPC attributes seem to have no effect on the resulting T2 BPC? You would think that starting with the best plans rather than crap drawn with crayons would be an important factor for Invention, but apparently not.

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Originally by: Scouteye

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funny, i know a guy who, first time round, used t1 cloak to make a good t2 covert cloak bpc, think it was 6 runs or something he said, and has made a huge huge profit making them for about 20mil and selling for the going empire rate

I havent tried invention my self but it obviously works for some people

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Originally by: Scouteye

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funny, i know a guy who, first time round, used t1 cloak to make a good t2 covert cloak bpc, think it was 6 runs or something he said, and has made a huge huge profit making them for about 20mil and selling for the going empire rate

I havent tried invention my self but it obviously works for some people

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Originally by: Eralus

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I'm confused - do datacores last forever or not?

It they last forever, then once you get the 16 you need for inventing a HAC, can't you use those same 16 cores again and again and again?

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Originally by: PirateShampoo

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After all the rubbish u where spouting on ur last invention thread on how u where gonna make billions, all i can say is HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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only way to fix the T2 bpo problem is to make them as t1 AVAILABLE at the market.. would totally fix the problem for every one

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Originally by: Helenae

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Quote:

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only way to fix the T2 bpo problem is to make them as t1 AVAILABLE at the market.. would totally fix the problem for every one

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That would fix nothing as the moon product price will skyrocket because supply and demand (its much more easy to produce tritanium than fluoride isn't it ?)

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Originally by: Helenae

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Quote:

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only way to fix the T2 bpo problem is to make them as t1 AVAILABLE at the market.. would totally fix the problem for every one

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That would fix nothing as the moon product price will skyrocket because supply and demand (its much more easy to produce tritanium than fluoride isn't it ?)

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Originally by: Lady Noir

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Edited by: Lady Noir on 25/12/2006 15:47:34

Originally by: s73v3n2k

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We all know this is over nerfed atm so its not news to anyone really. I would say thank you to the OP for posting this because we now know how bad it is even with good skills.

My plan would be in relation to invention is to see how well it does with module BPC's. The best thing about module BPC's is the number of runs and the ME level you can get them. In this case with the starship inventions 5runs resulted in 1run so what would a 300run ME:500 Large turret BPC result in ? I have loads of these dotted around so will probably use invention to get rid of some.

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To be honest i don't think the me, pe or runs of the T1 bpc used has any impact on the output T2 bpc, don't get your hopes up, i will be testing this to make sure anyway.

I have already proved that the ME/PE of the T1 bpc have no effect on the T2 bpc, i don't see why the runs would either. We tested with 5 run copies, 3 failed completely, 2 returned 1 run copies.

Afaik the only thing that effects me/pe/runs of the T2 bpcs are the decryptors used.

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Originally by: Akita T

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Originally by: Helenae

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Quote:

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only way to fix the T2 bpo problem is to make them as t1 AVAILABLE at the market.. would totally fix the problem for every one

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That would fix nothing as the moon product price will skyrocket because supply and demand (its much more easy to produce tritanium than fluoride isn't it ?)

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You don't necessarily have to have'em on the market... you COULD however make BPOs available through invention, and BPCs as RP-dependant agent rewards (just like LP offers).

Short term, yes, that MIGHT cause the price of moon products and T2 construction components to skyrocket... making the less profitable T2 BPOs (most of them... other than HACs, weapon mods, cap rechargers and the like, that is) almost a certain loss, and the profitable ones a bit less profitable.

But long term... you get more people going into the lowsec areas to place mining POSes, because it's suddendly a lot more profitable. In other words, you place the pricing wars away from the manufacture areas and into the "POS miner" area, just like T1 manufacture and regular miners.

And even longer-term... the profitability of most T2 BPOs will become equivalent to that of T1 BPOs, while most profit increase will be seen in the POS miner area... which is actually a GOOD thing, because THEY are actually doing the hard work.

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I guess we now know what CCP gave us for Christmas... A big one up the ass...

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Originally by: Dark Shikari

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Originally by: Lady Noir

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Out of 5 invention jobs we completed, only two were successful, some things to note.

We have encryption methods at level 5, aswell as the research skills at level 5. We used all five decryptor types, we used best possible t1 items. There is no way to increase the success chance further.

We used 5 run bpc's, both of the successful invention jobs resulted in 1 run bpc's, me and pe level of the T1 bpc's used also did not effect the result of invented T2 bpc.

The invented bpc's efficiency wasn't all that bad, -4 and -6 to me on the two bpc's we got.

At the end of it, we spent a LOT of datacores for two crappy 1 run bpc's, in total we spent 60,000 starship RP and 20,000 mechanical RP. Definetly not worth it.

My suggestion to make invention worthwhile would be to increase the success chance OR/AND lower the price of the datacores from research agents. As it currently stands, we'd rather keep our RP than have to have TWELVE maxed out research alts spending all of their research points to make one HAC a week.

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So after spending 4 pages flaming about how Invention is fine, you finally try it?



Ouch.

Yeah, uh, CCP... fix invention?

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Originally by: SlappySquirel

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But long term... you get more people going into the lowsec areas to place mining POSes, because it's suddendly a lot more profitable.

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