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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Gybson Minmatar The Vanguard Corp	Posted - 2006.12.26 19:13:00 - [91] Pirates don't want lowsec mission runners to operate risk free in high risk zones. Lowsec mission runners don't want pirates to have risk free ganking at their expense. Both are legitmate gripes. Keep the probing the way it is today (it seems like a good balance). However, when a pirate locates and crashes a mission, have some of the NPCs break off from the mission runner and attack the pirate. The NPCs should see the pirate as another possible threat, and it somewhat levels the playing field pvp wise.

Devil Hanzo Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.12.26 19:31:00 - [92] OK, I have tried to clean up this thread so it can remain open. Please be respectful to eachother from now on, or I will be forced to lock it. Its perfectly possible to disagree without insulting people or making generalizations. King of the Pink Sig - Karl Chroimcer Its red and very manly! - Devil Hanzo First sigjack by me ever. - Garthagk Violet would be even manlier - Conuion Meow

Roy Batty68	Posted - 2006.12.26 19:52:00 - [93] Originally by: Dreysine I 100% agree with you, and i apologize for not very nice words used to describe certain roleplayers. My frustration was because i was under a false impression about my security in missions since the last patch. I do not feel that i SHOULD be un-scannable, but i did think that i WAS for all practical purposes un-scannable. Can you clarify this a bit more for me? If i warp from station to a mission gate, then immediately activate the gate, at what point is it easy(er) to scan me down? You say that it is done while you are "approaching the first gate" but when is that? You are always dropped form warp immediatly within range of the first gate when you warp to the mission, so you never have to approach it for more than a couple seconds. You are scannable while you are in warp as well. So those few seconds where you are comming out of warp near your destination are also part of the window of opportunity for someone scanning for you. Then there is the time aligning at the gate itself. So considering the time first aligning for warp + time spent in warp + time comming out of warp + time aligning at mission gate prior to entering the deadspace proper = at least 30 seconds in all. Probably longer. Getting a scan time under that isn't hard at all. All that leaves is a little luck and a decent sense of timing for those doing the scanning. The best advice in this thread so far was the guy who suggested making some random SS and warping to those first prior to warping to the mission. Still possible to get unlucky though so all the other lowsec advice still applies; Not staying close to the warp in point, staying aligned to a warp off point at all times, etc. Originally by: Big Al Well, if there was a law against stupidity, the server would certainly lag less.
Dreysine Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.12.26 20:15:00 - [94] Originally by: Roy Batty68 You are scannable while you are in warp as well. So those few seconds where you are comming out of warp near your destination are also part of the window of opportunity for someone scanning for you. Then there is the time aligning at the gate itself. So considering the time first aligning for warp + time spent in warp + time comming out of warp + time aligning at mission gate prior to entering the deadspace proper = at least 30 seconds in all. Probably longer. Getting a scan time under that isn't hard at all. All that leaves is a little luck and a decent sense of timing for those doing the scanning. The best advice in this thread so far was the guy who suggested making some random SS and warping to those first prior to warping to the mission. Still possible to get unlucky though so all the other lowsec advice still applies; Not staying close to the warp in point, staying aligned to a warp off point at all times, etc. So let me see if i am understanding you correctly... I warp to my mission, and someone starts scanning me while i am still in warp, tens or even hundreds of thousands of KM away from the gate. This scan will then have a chance to land directly on the mission gate, despite the fact that i was thousands of KM away when the scan was initiated? -------------------- Are you looking at my bum??
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2006.12.26 20:19:00 - [95] Edited by: DarkMatter on 26/12/2006 20:19:58 Originally by: James Snowscoran Originally by: DarkMatter Attacking a player with numbers who is already engaged in PvE with many hostiles is a very sad form of PvP... I hope these players don't think they are any good at EVE... That being said, low sec is low sec... Just don't run missions there... Take your stupid assumptions about what is and isn't 'good' pvp elsewhere. Pvp is pvp, a fight is a fight. If you feel like enforcing a code of honour or somesuch you are of course free to do so but you'll notice that most people won't care. This is EVE, where ganking is encouraged. Struck a nerve with a ganker did I? It's ganking, not PvP... If the other person is not looking for a fight, it's ganking sorry... And you'll never be looked upon as anything other than a lame ganker... Low sec should be dangerous, even for mission runners, but please, call it what it is and don't try to call yourself a PvP'er if these are the only fights you get in to, that is absurd... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Shayla Etherodyne	Posted - 2006.12.26 20:34:00 - [96] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 26/12/2006 15:55:30 I dont know why you guys want fair fights in a mmorpg... I dont think that ever has existed in any of them? First person shooters are basically as close to fair you can get, and even those have camping/sniping that isnt "fair". Simple, Jim, because most of the PvP winers reclamize theyr action as fair fights, lack of nuts on the opposing forces for running in a 4 to 1 situation, ecc., ecc. None of them will ever admit that they go for the weak targets as a preference. Se we tend to reply as if the spoke seriously.
Dreysine Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.12.26 20:42:00 - [97] for gods sake i did not mean for this thread to be another carebears vs gankers whinefest. this is eve, and in eve people gank you in every way they can. its a feature of this particular game. The only fairness in it is that everyone is playing the same game and we all have to follow the same game mechanics. what i would like to discuss here is -what are the current mechanics of scanning mission runners -do people think that these mechanics make the game more or less fun save the moralizing about ganking for another thread please... -------------------- Are you looking at my bum??
Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.26 21:06:00 - [98] Edited by: Shayla Sh''inlux on 26/12/2006 21:07:49 First and foremost I'd prefer not to be addressed "fgt roleplayer". Give yourself your credibility and edit it out. Second of all, I had always looked upon FNZ as an elite PvP corp and Red Skull as an elite PvP alliance. Apparently I was wrong. That or you're making a complete fool out of your mates. Third let's start adressing the points. You're asking how the probe system works. Well, I can tell you, it doesn't. There is a chance you will be found and with the way things stand this chance is rather low. Generally speaking finding a Raven in deadspace with decent probing skillpoints takes 40-50 scans with translates into 20-25 minutes of spamming the "analyze" button. Considering we have usually two guys doing it, count on it being 10-15 minutes on average. In your case one of our probers got lucky. He got a hit on the first scan. About 1.6 - 1.7% chance depending on how far you was from him. We warp, you die; or rather are being asked for a ransom but your reaction in the convo was rather childish don't you think? Apparently CCP likes this new system of randomness that involves absolutely zero player skill. I think it completely destroys the whole point of probing, but CCP has so far ignored any of my questions regarding this stupidity so I suppose it's here to stay. Other than that, I can only echo the previous posts; * it's lowsec for a reason * we don't claim to be 1337 PvPers. We leave that to the alliance gankblobs. We just wanna have fun. * There's plenty highend lvl 4 free-isk agents in hisec. Your lag excuse is really pathetic tbh. * If you're so good at PvP with your "other char" you of all people should know how to avoid being ganked. I can avoid it too and I'm hardly uber. Originally by: "Cy4n1d3" You can't PVP with 4 mids.
ElCoCo KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.26 21:33:00 - [99] Are you sure you're in the right corp? Maybe FNA is better for you.
Dreysine Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.12.26 21:35:00 - [100] Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux First and foremost I'd prefer not to be addressed "fgt roleplayer". Give yourself your credibility and edit it out. granted. done. err well it looks like a mod beat me to it but done anyway. Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Second of all, I had always looked upon FNZ as an elite PvP corp and Red Skull as an elite PvP alliance. Apparently I was wrong. That or you're making a complete fool out of your mates. The fact that allowed myself to be ganked does not mean i dont know how to avoid it. I simply did not think there was still a need to treat missions as a pvp situation, so i was not on my guard. If i had known, i wouldnt have been running missions then since i had too many distractions going on to pay proper attention. Theres no shame not being 100% aware of a game mechanic that has changed 3 times in the last month, and theres no shame in wanting some clarification of said mechanic. I fail to see how anyone is being made a fool of. Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux Third let's start adressing the points. You're asking how the probe system works. Well, I can tell you, it doesn't. There is a chance you will be found and with the way things stand this chance is rather low. Generally speaking finding a Raven in deadspace with decent probing skillpoints takes 40-50 scans with translates into 20-25 minutes of spamming the "analyze" button. Considering we have usually two guys doing it, count on it being 10-15 minutes on average. In your case one of our probers got lucky. He got a hit on the first scan. About 1.6 - 1.7% chance depending on how far you was from him. We warp, you die; or rather are being asked for a ransom but your reaction in the convo was rather childish don't you think? Apparently CCP likes this new system of randomness that involves absolutely zero player skill. I think it completely destroys the whole point of probing, but CCP has so far ignored any of my questions regarding this stupidity so I suppose it's here to stay. I do not recall any talk of ransom at any point... the only convo i was in was started by me to ask how you had done what you did. My response to that was colored by the fact that you refused to say anything that was of any use to me when i was asking a simple question. If you had simply answered me instead of feeding me all the roleplayer crap (nothing against it im just not interested) my respect level for you would be alot higher atm. Anyway, am i correct in understanding that EVEN THE PEOPLE WHO BENEFIT FROM THIS SYSTEM DONT LIKE IT????? I hope the devs would consider that to be feedback enough... -------------------- Are you looking at my bum??
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.12.26 21:50:00 - [101] current situation = deadspaces offer some protection but all it means is it takes about 3-4x as longer to find the target that it otherwise would If the OP was soloing a mission then he needs to reconsider such activity and join a player corp with other mission runners for his own carebear protection Otherwise all is good in eve These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views This is a disclaimer
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2006.12.26 22:01:00 - [102] Originally by: Jiekon You are correct, this was fixed. It was fixed as in : it is now harder to locate people in deadspace areas but it is not impossible. "High Alert in low sec" it is. So, you hot-fixed the bug that made chance to scan someone inside a deadspace area equal to zero, then? - EVE is sick.
Dern Morrow Get out of my head	Posted - 2006.12.26 22:07:00 - [103] It is certainly possible to probe out mission runners, it just takes a horrible amount of time. We have someone who has trained all the scan skills to 4 (and Astrometrics 5) who gets in his covert ops with great skills and he will use the long range scanners to get you within 5AU, then start popping the short range probes. Usually, it takes us 6-10 probes and 20 minutes before we get a hit on a target. By then, the odds that you've finished the mission or moved past the first part of the warp in point are high. Also, by this point you've probably seen us on long range scanners and have warped away. So yes, be careful in lowsec. It's much harder to find someone now, but it's certainly possible. Especially if they're not paying attention and aren't ready to warp out when we finally do show up. Pew pew! -- im in ur stargate pwning ur noobz
Naphtalia The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2006.12.26 22:56:00 - [104] I am sorry, but my pilots are under strict orders to stay IC in convo's with clients or in local... you can always send them an OOC mail after, but our convo with you: Quote: Dreysine > so... how the ** did you do that? Dreysine > i thought it was no longer possible to scan misions in that short amount of time Centinel 6 > we are defending our assets and you are working for the Caldari Navy Dreysine > ok... cut the roleplayer bull** i want to know how you did that in game mechanic terms Centinel 6 > Please refrain from pirating our system Didn't really leave an opening for a friendly chat after it. Good luck finding a new corp Sir :) recruitment
Dreysine Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.12.26 23:23:00 - [105] Originally by: Naphtalia I am sorry, but my pilots are under strict orders to stay IC in convo's with clients or in local... you can always send them an OOC mail after, but our convo with you: Quote: Dreysine > so... how the ** did you do that? Dreysine > i thought it was no longer possible to scan misions in that short amount of time Centinel 6 > we are defending our assets and you are working for the Caldari Navy Dreysine > ok... cut the roleplayer bull** i want to know how you did that in game mechanic terms Centinel 6 > Please refrain from pirating our system Didn't really leave an opening for a friendly chat after it. Good luck finding a new corp Sir :) i wasnt looking for a freindly chat, just a simple answer to a simple question. A common player courtesy if you will... If i offended your corpmate with a little swearing then i apologize. And i have no problem with my current corp, thank you. -------------------- Are you looking at my bum??
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2006.12.26 23:27:00 - [106] Originally by: Workin Onut Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Edited by: Tobias Sjodin on 26/12/2006 16:42:35 Originally by: Workin Onut Challenge? You mean pirates have some sort of challenge? The whole low sec system is not working, this is why the .1-.4 systems are pretty much always empty. When there's a working bounty system and there's an actual challenge to being a pirate then ok, but until then might as well just have Empire and 0.0 The OP poster will do the smart thing and stay in high sec now now making even more lag for people trying to get some experience before jumping to an 0.0 alliance. I'd sell you a clue, but you'd be too slow to grasp it before EVE shuts down permanently. Suffice to say, you don't have one. What clue oh clueless one. The low sec "pirate", more accurately called, gankbear, community adds nothing whatsoever to Eve. Thankfully there is more to this game or it would in fact be shutting down. The low sec areas are empty of players for a reason. All the gankers supported by high security toons looking for no challange whatsoever and easy kills aren't fooling anyone. Want a challenge, try one yourself. i seriously listened to your post until i read the word "toon" then i shook my head and switched off. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder typically
Identity Hidden	Posted - 2006.12.26 23:57:00 - [107] Originally by: Dreysine Personally i am not looking for any sort of fights when i run missions. im just looking to make a little isk so that i can go pvp on my other character in real pvp situations (when i say real that definitely doesnt include greifing mission runners so i can pretend to be a Gurstas pirate) Now if there was anywhere i could go in highsec without rediculous lag i would be there instead of lowsec running missions, but there isnt. Real PvP only includes ganking carebears under special circumstances like when you are doing the ganking?
Naphtalia The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2006.12.27 05:29:00 - [108] Originally by: Dreysine And i have no problem with my current corp, thank you. They might have a problem with you though :) recruitment
Dreysine Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.12.27 05:47:00 - [109] Originally by: Naphtalia Originally by: Dreysine And i have no problem with my current corp, thank you. They might have a problem with you though :) lol -------------------- Are you looking at my bum??
Thetys Surfer des Sandwurms	Posted - 2006.12.27 05:48:00 - [110] if you want to leave empire - take a ship you can afford to loose if you do not have a ship you can afford to loose - do not leave empire if you loose your ship (the one you were ready to loose) - post a "gf" in local and get the next ship yer ready to loose to get some revenge plain and simple, eh? :) regards thetys ------
cflux Caldari FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.27 07:33:00 - [111] I can't belive what I just read from a Finite Horizon member. Madcap, is your recruitment program broken or something? That does not sound like normal crew, nor anywhere near your class. --
Matrix Aran Legio Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.27 08:47:00 - [112] When, in the history of war, has there ever been a fair fight? When will people learn. In eve honor, fairness, and niceties quickly vanish in the face of possible profit. If there is money to be made of of your misfortune, people will do it, whether you like it or not. Instead of complaining about getting ganked, how about you learn how not to get ganked. Find a good corp that actualy does a good job of locking down it territory, help them keep it locked down and you can mission in relative privacy. Part of that locking down will probably entail piracy, so guess what? Being evil in this game pays ---- Originally by: Oveur on rigs Sure, np, it's only like ... the 6th time I say this here
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2006.12.27 10:16:00 - [113] Now when we have jump clones, lots of pvpers earn their ways running missions in empire. Maybe with alts even, which you will never know whose. I am sure that many, if not all, "133t" alliances has members, not commanders of course, with opinion similar to the OP's. However they do not share them on forums being afraid to be booted by fanatical "orthodox" pvpers. Well anyway, this person at least has balls to openly state his opinion. Better than being afraid to say a word like the rest of alliance crowd. I can only respect that. tho who cares.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.27 10:27:00 - [114] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 27/12/2006 10:27:13 Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe Well anyway, this person at least has balls to openly state his opinion. Better than being afraid to say a word like the rest of alliance crowd. I agree, it certainly seems a lot of the alliance people have to ask permission to state their opinions in these forums. Just so the corp doesnt "look bad"... Maybe if people stopped assuming that everybody belonging to one corp, alliance, race etc are "the same", then the game (and world) would be so much better. We are individuals ffs. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Exiled One Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.12.27 10:37:00 - [115] snip Stop trolling. - Devil ([email protected]) It's great being Amarr, aint it?
Dark Avatar Caldari The Company of Wolves	Posted - 2006.12.27 11:28:00 - [116] Dreysine, get over it. If you cant take the danger of going into lowsec after so many friggin concord warnings about the dangers, relegate yourself to Jita sucking veld mmmkay. - No one will hurt your mission mining raven there. 1) You knew the risks 2) You took them 3) You have no place here whining D.A For you, the day the Wolves rolled into your system and killed your ace pilots was a most memorable day. For us, it was Tuesday...
Dark Avatar Caldari The Company of Wolves	Posted - 2006.12.27 11:28:00 - [117] Edited by: Dark Avatar on 27/12/2006 11:29:19 ((double post)) For you, the day the Wolves rolled into your system and killed your ace pilots was a most memorable day. For us, it was Tuesday...
Malakai0 Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.27 11:58:00 - [118] I'm ALWAYS for stuff that makes pvp more prevalent, but IMO this is just retarded (and I haven't ran a mission for over a year). You have zero chance of survival when your in a mission with 50 ships shooting at you. Flying around lowsec in a mostly/all T2/faction fitted bs is quite dangerous as it is, without adding in a 100% death scenario to mission running. Sorry CCP I think your wrong on this one :/ L4's are already so much less profitable than they were when I last ran missions (4mil incliding time bonus for missions that take 2+ hours to compelte and require multiple warp-outs?), this just doesn't fit in to profit/risk ratios. I can rat all day in impass (well I could...) and make 10x what a mission runner makes for much less risk (2-5 rats shooting you plus the agressor ship versus 20+ in missions). _________________________ Level 3 Member of Eye of God
Prescience Gallente SPECTRE Ops	Posted - 2006.12.27 12:08:00 - [119] See sig _____________________________________ WHO said EVE had to be FAIR?? Tripping up on the 'good intentions' paving, asking for directions to hell.
Dreysine Finite Horizon The Red Skull	Posted - 2006.12.27 13:27:00 - [120] Edited by: Dreysine on 27/12/2006 13:28:28 Edited by: Dreysine on 27/12/2006 13:27:52 Originally by: cflux I can't belive what I just read from a Finite Horizon member. Madcap, is your recruitment program broken or something? That does not sound like normal crew, nor anywhere near your class. Pvp is the primary thing i enjoy about this game. As such, I want it to be fun and challenging. I see absolutely nothing that is fun or challenging about the current mechanics of scanning missions, for either the person scanning or the person being scanned. Its an opinion that some of my corpmates agree with, and some disagree with. However, one of the nice things about FZN is that i dont have to ask a commitee before i post anything on the forum. I really could care less if people think that this looks badly on FZN's reputation as l33tzor pvpzorz. Anyone who thinks we gone lax is more than welcome to put that to test on the battlefield. I would love to show you how i spend all that isk i get from mission whoring. -------------------- Are you looking at my bum??

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