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Dau Imperius
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.12.27 05:16:00 -
[1]
Let the flames begin. (but I hope not)
Simple reasoning really. Here I am, an older character who's got the iskk and wants to field around a Dread or a carrier finally. Thing is I don't want a thing to do with your PvP playing. I'd just like to purchase this ship, and use it to do some missions with friends (using a freighter to ship it). Unlike most ratters, I could care less about your dps or tanking setups. That's not 'fun' to me. I'd just like to go into a level 4 mission, get my arse smacked around but enjoy it...and I was looking forward to being able to take it with a dreadnaught.
Why, you might ask? Because there's little else a non-pvper can do with these ships. Am I supposed to be regulated to BS and below simply because I choose not to get involved with the other kinds of players? Doesn't make much logical sense. Level 4's with thier BS's by the dozen shouldn't be soloed by a lone BS anyways. Not expecting a dread to own them either, but merely to be able to tackle the hits from these missions and enjoy it normally. Like a human, not a machine based on stats-has-to-be-followed-rules.
Aye, I just want to enjoy the fruits of my labour for saving up that much isk and being able to pilot the ships. Acceleration gates into deadspace are not jumpgates. There's no size or mass in question for those. It gives those of us who don't want to PvP a chance to do something (albiet small) with a big ship they earned. Mkae the level 4's tougher if you want, I don't care. The whole point is to get some usefulness for these cap ships for the PvEr.
Or...perhaps some level 5 missions need to start coming out in force Something only a Dread/Carrier and friends would have a chance of doing.
Some of you may say: Oh he just wants an easy isk maker. No. That whole risk vs reward thing is bunk. I don't care if the isk made in the missions is minimal compared to lower sec space still. It's about PvE vs PvP play. I'd like the option to use all the tools at any players disposel, regardless of where they are at. Simply put: Will CCP decide to let us fully play again in Empire? It's just missions...missions that don't net big rewards like 0.0. It's simply about enjoying something for once, not making it into 'for the win'.
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Sandeep
Caldari Raptus Regaliter
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Posted - 2006.12.27 07:26:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Dau Imperius (using a freighter to ship it)
Carriers/Dreads are 1,000,000.0 m^3 packaged. Freighter with biggest capacity has 981,250.0 m^3 space.
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Quilan Ziller
Gallente Children of Azathoth Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2006.12.27 08:34:00 -
[3]
No. Just NO.
Originally by: Dau Imperius
Why, you might ask? Because there's little else a non-pvper can do with these ships. Am I supposed to be regulated to BS and below simply because I choose not to get involved with the other kinds of players? Doesn't make much logical sense.
Yes, it does make sense. EVE is a MMO game. The MM in MMO are kind of important. The game is designed with PvP interaction in mind. Dreads, carriers, and motherships have been balanced with PvP in mind, and have very specific roles in fleet and POS warfare. You are not supposed to use them solo, and they are nost supposed to be DED 10 farmmobiles. If you do not agree with that - tough luck. Just buy one, put it in your hangar, and look at all its prettiness when you feel like it.
Originally by: Dau Imperius
Aye, I just want to enjoy the fruits of my labour for saving up that much isk and being able to pilot the ships. Acceleration gates into deadspace are not jumpgates. There's no size or mass in question for those. It gives those of us who don't want to PvP a chance to do something (albiet small) with a big ship they earned. Mkae the level 4's tougher if you want, I don't care. The whole point is to get some usefulness for these cap ships for the PvEr.
I like the use of words "labor" and "earned". It is very symptomatic. That is why you don't like PvP... Because when you play, you choose to grind instead of having fun. If you lose a ship to a dreaded "PvPer", you probably feel like you have been robbed from your life's possessions (or something close to it). Oh well.
Originally by: Dau Imperius
Some of you may say: Oh he just wants an easy isk maker. No. That whole risk vs reward thing is bunk. I don't care if the isk made in the missions is minimal compared to lower sec space still. It's about PvE vs PvP play. I'd like the option to use all the tools at any players disposel, regardless of where they are at. Simply put: Will CCP decide to let us fully play again in Empire? It's just missions...missions that don't net big rewards like 0.0. It's simply about enjoying something for once, not making it into 'for the win'.
You personally may not use your Mothership to farm L4 missions. But there are plenty of people who will do it. Macro mission runners anyone? It has been possible to use carriers in deadspace as recently as 3 months ago. They are not allowed there any more specifically because some unscrupulous people have been farming the complexes 23/7 with no risk to themselves.
I don't think you will find much support for your idea. And your attitude of not wanting "a thing to do with your (sic) PvP playing" takes out most of the fun from the game for you. It won't get you a lot of support on the forums either. Professional mission runners are universally considered to be entrenched, stiff-neck carebear grinders, and you helpfully reinforce this stereotype.
______________________________________________________________ Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. - Robert Heinlein |
Karma Coma
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Posted - 2006.12.27 10:43:00 -
[4]
Maybe if level 5 missions get introduced you will have your chanse
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Vanguard Frontiers Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.27 10:48:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Karma Coma Maybe if level 5 missions get introduced you will have your chanse
If level 5's are on the difficulty of 10/10's, then he would be as well selling the dread and buying a logistic ship to rep the tank while the tank camps the entire spawn --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.27 12:02:00 -
[6]
Maybe not the level 4 mission, but exploring?
Someone know if the exploration sites are barred from Derad/carriers?
I don't know much on the capability of a carrier, but can't it be used to transport some alternative frigate so that a grup exploring has a reserve miner and hacking/archeology ship even in dep 0.0 whitout gimping the combat set up of others ships?
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Lord WarATron
Amarr Vanguard Frontiers Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.27 12:32:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Venkul Mul Maybe not the level 4 mission, but exploring?
Someone know if the exploration sites are barred from Derad/carriers?
I don't know much on the capability of a carrier, but can't it be used to transport some alternative frigate so that a grup exploring has a reserve miner and hacking/archeology ship even in dep 0.0 whitout gimping the combat set up of others ships?
Good question. Since all exploration sites are deadspace, I assume capitals cannot enter. With that said, there is nothing in the game that cannot be tanked with a 2 man team of Tank + Logistic ship so it does not matter much. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE |
Kaaii
Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2006.12.27 18:36:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: Venkul Mul Maybe not the level 4 mission, but exploring?
Someone know if the exploration sites are barred from Derad/carriers?
I don't know much on the capability of a carrier, but can't it be used to transport some alternative frigate so that a grup exploring has a reserve miner and hacking/archeology ship even in dep 0.0 whitout gimping the combat set up of others ships?
Good question. Since all exploration sites are deadspace, I assume capitals cannot enter. With that said, there is nothing in the game that cannot be tanked with a 2 man team of Tank + Logistic ship so it does not matter much.
I can confirm that the sites ive visited would not let my chimmy in...
Trading 101
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Hockston Axe
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.12.27 20:03:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Hockston Axe on 27/12/2006 20:09:36
Originally by: Quilan Ziller
And your attitude of not wanting "a thing to do with your (sic) PvP playing"
Sorry but if you're going to attempt to make someone look dumb by being the Barney Fife of the Grammar Police then you run the risk of the Grammar FBI coming down on you. He had the correct usage of æyourÆ and æ[sic]Æ is always used within brackets, not parentheses to indicate that what precedes it is written intentionally or is copied verbatim from the original, even if it appears to be a mistake.
edit: "Thing is I don't want a thing [sic] to do with your PvP playing," would have worked, just for the record.
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Arbiter Lilitu
ReignBow Corps
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Posted - 2006.12.27 20:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Hockston Axe Edited by: Hockston Axe on 27/12/2006 20:09:36
Originally by: Quilan Ziller
And your attitude of not wanting "a thing to do with your (sic) PvP playing"
Sorry but if you're going to attempt to make someone look dumb by being the Barney Fife of the Grammar Police then you run the risk of the Grammar FBI coming down on you. He had the correct usage of æyourÆ and æ[sic]Æ is always used within brackets, not parentheses to indicate that what precedes it is written intentionally or is copied verbatim from the original, even if it appears to be a mistake.
edit: "Thing is I don't want a thing [sic] to do with your PvP playing," would have worked, just for the record.
Buuuuuuuuuuurn
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2006.12.27 21:29:00 -
[11]
I think it should be still possible to do some lvl4s in a capital, those which don't have an accel gate. Blockade comes to mind. Or first pocket of WC... though it's pointless, more fun to do it in a CS or something.
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Big Al
The Aftermath
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Posted - 2006.12.27 21:50:00 -
[12]
2nd mission of rogue slave trader, DREAD MINER GO!
I don't see any issue with capitals being in level 4s, they are just as trivial with a good bs or hac setup. Where the issue arises are plexes where the logistics support then can provide makes an imbalance.
Save a miner, kill a farmer today |
Magnus Card
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.27 22:20:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sandeep
Originally by: Dau Imperius (using a freighter to ship it)
Carriers/Dreads are 1,000,000.0 m^3 packaged. Freighter with biggest capacity has 981,250.0 m^3 space.
As Maxwel Smart would say, "Missed it by that much" [ ]
Still rockin as a ! |
Tyler Lowe
Minmatar DROW Org
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Posted - 2006.12.28 03:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Hockston Axe He had the correct usage of æyourÆ and æ[sic]Æ is always used within brackets, not parentheses to indicate that what precedes it is written intentionally or is copied verbatim from the original, even if it appears to be a mistake.
edit: "Thing is I don't want a thing [sic] to do with your PvP playing," would have worked, just for the record.
Dammit, beat me to it.
On the subject of freighters, can these be rigged to allow transport of a dread? J.A.F.O.
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Yukiko Kanezaki
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Posted - 2006.12.28 03:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tyler Lowe
Originally by: Hockston Axe He had the correct usage of æyourÆ and æ[sic]Æ is always used within brackets, not parentheses to indicate that what precedes it is written intentionally or is copied verbatim from the original, even if it appears to be a mistake.
edit: "Thing is I don't want a thing [sic] to do with your PvP playing," would have worked, just for the record.
Dammit, beat me to it.
On the subject of freighters, can these be rigged to allow transport of a dread?
No, freighters do not have slots. Period. This includes rigs.
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.28 10:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Quilan Ziller Macro mission runners anyone?
Though I disagree with your post overall, you were actually doing fine until you trotted out this old piece of rot. It's the biggest myth in EVE that somehow you can setup a macro to run kill missions. You can't. End of story. Kill missions have too many variables for you to be able to do it. Don't take this as being an admission that I've TRIED to do it either...it only takes an ounce of sense to realise that missions are too chaotic to be performed by a simple list of instructions. ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them. |
Shandling
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.28 11:17:00 -
[17]
Better idea...
Add level 5 agents. :)
Make them so tough you need at least a small gang of BS, or a Cap Ship.
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Smagd
Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.12.28 11:36:00 -
[18]
More second-hand knowledge:
Don't fighters go through acc gates? I mean, all right, so the carrier pilot gets to see a pretty boring traffic controller's point of view of the battle.
But the very prospect of sending a zippy ceptor into a level 4 with a dozen fighters at his command doesn't sound too boring.
It's all low sec of course, so you'll have to PvP a bit even if you're not planning to, but I know an agent that occasionally has a Carrier or two hovering outside his office window. --
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Xaryx
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Posted - 2006.12.28 12:01:00 -
[19]
Quote: EVE is a MMO game. The MM in MMO are kind of important. The game is designed with PvP interaction in mind
Wow it is amazing and pathetic how often this is trotted out as an excuse by people wanting empire of missions nerfed. Lets look at what CCP says and what they do They say eve is all about player driven battle and economy They do set up empire space which is quite large with many many agents offering many many missions and they change, add to or redesign these missions on occasion. So where in deed are they saying PvP rules and that is what the game is all about. Were that the case, empire would be just big enough to run the tutorial and all higher level agents would be in non empire space. So to those who say PvP is what eve is all about, actually look at the game and try and little bit of logic. Oh and get off your high horse.
Quote: Professional mission runners are universally considered to be entrenched, stiff-neck carebear grinders, and you helpfully reinforce this stereotype.
Quite frankly who cares what the considered opinion is. When you start paying my subscription with your money you can have an opinion on what I do in Eve. Until then mate bad luck. CCP exists to make money by supplying a game, if they are serious they will understand their subscriber base has many different levels of interest and interests. If one area of the player base is interested in having access to certain game mechanics within their style of play who the hell are the others to complain. |
Necoria
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Posted - 2006.12.28 12:08:00 -
[20]
1. There are missions without acc gates that allow capitals to enter, they just cant use acc gates (The Blockade, Right hand of zazz) 2. I ran missions in a Moros when it was still possible. Now CCP forced me back into faction fitted Raven or sniper thron/rokh. Guess what... i do missions faster now, but its a bit more work. As Moros was like "aggro all, release drones, go for the gate" 3. Do u really want to do those new missions with 70+ km to next gate in a slowboating CS? raven with AB feels slow, currently thinking about switching to drake for those missions.
4. Macro mission running... Passive tanked Ferox/drake with FoF missile and painter for lvl3s anyone. Go in paint nearest, let the FoF go, approach next gate... cant be that hard to code. Same could be applied to the Moros i mentioned earlier.
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Horus Dark
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Posted - 2006.12.28 13:11:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Xaryx
Quote:
Quite frankly who cares what the considered opinion is. When you start paying my subscription with your money you can have an opinion on what I do in Eve. Until then mate bad luck.
CCP exists to make money by supplying a game, if they are serious they will understand their subscriber base has many different levels of interest and interests. If one area of the player base is interested in having access to certain game mechanics within their style of play who the hell are the others to complain.
1 - quite frankly when you open up your mouth here on the forums you give people the right to debate what your saying. if not STFU and play your game how you want. 2 - So everquest should expand their game and alowe you to make swimming dives! it offers the ability to swim so they should broaden it for the swim fanatics in their player game! wtf dude..read the discription from a game. if its pvp orrientated..and you dont want pvp you might wanna ask yourself if thats indeed the game your looking for.
--->not saying pve should not be expanded...merly want to add that your post is just plain stupid.
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Frug
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.28 15:06:00 -
[22]
Sorry dude, no support here. And I'm a "entrenched, stiff-neck carebear grinder" mission runner myself.
No cap ships in empire, no cap ships in missions. There's tons of other ships and tactics you and your friends can play with. Cap ships are for the 'real men'.
- - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - - |
Verus Potestas
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2006.12.28 15:14:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Magnus Card
Originally by: Sandeep
Originally by: Dau Imperius (using a freighter to ship it)
Carriers/Dreads are 1,000,000.0 m^3 packaged. Freighter with biggest capacity has 981,250.0 m^3 space.
As Maxwel Smart would say, "Missed it by that much" [ ]
It's actually completely deliberate. It used to be possible to fit dreads into them with a Freighter IV, or some of the others at Freighter V, but they reduced the sizes until it just wasn't possible.
CCP don't want capitals in freighters.
Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Quilan Ziller
Gallente Children of Azathoth Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2006.12.29 01:38:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Hockston Axe Edited by: Hockston Axe on 27/12/2006 20:09:36
Originally by: Quilan Ziller
And your attitude of not wanting "a thing to do with your (sic) PvP playing"
Sorry but if you're going to attempt to make someone look dumb by being the Barney Fife of the Grammar Police then you run the risk of the Grammar FBI coming down on you. He had the correct usage of æyourÆ and æ[sic]Æ is always used within brackets, not parentheses to indicate that what precedes it is written intentionally or is copied verbatim from the original, even if it appears to be a mistake.
edit: "Thing is I don't want a thing [sic] to do with your PvP playing," would have worked, just for the record.
You have missed my point by... 20 jumps. I have not been picking on the OP's grammar (though I could have done it). I was picking on his ridiculous partition of the game into "his" good, easy mission grinding, and "everyone else's" stupid, useless PvP. As for bracketed "sic" - I am using my "sic" correctly. Always have, always will. And I don't need suggestions from you, brother. Indeed, they are unwelcome and annoying.
______________________________________________________________ Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. - Robert Heinlein |
Quilan Ziller
Gallente Children of Azathoth Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2006.12.29 01:45:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Xaryx
Quite frankly who cares what the considered opinion is. When you start paying my subscription with your money you can have an opinion on what I do in Eve. Until then mate bad luck. CCP exists to make money by supplying a game, if they are serious they will understand their subscriber base has many different levels of interest and interests. If one area of the player base is interested in having access to certain game mechanics within their style of play who the hell are the others to complain.
I am so sick and tired of the "money" argument. 1. Why do you even bother to post on this forum if you are not interested in other people's opinions? Do you just want to see a hundred "/signed" posts? 2. I am also paying for the game. In fact, I have 3 accounts. Thus, I should be entitled to have a "Pwnzorz Smartbomb II" module, which can be fitted on my shuttle, works just like a Doomsday Device, but kills and pods only mission runners. And I will petition CCP endlessly about it and post on the forums daily, because smartbombing mission runners is my style of play. And who the hell are you to complain?
______________________________________________________________ Of course the game is rigged. Don't let that stop you--if you don't play, you can't win. - Robert Heinlein |
Cipher7
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Posted - 2006.12.29 14:09:00 -
[26]
Nah.
I think cap ships should be the reward for being out in 0.0
Otherwise what's the point of being out there if you can use all the cool toys in empire?
You gotta give the hardcore players SOME advantage for being hardcore.
That being said I don't agree with Eve being a strickly pvp game. I think PVP should be the main focus, but PVE is the way in which people make money, so you have to PVE to PVP, so indirectly PVE is the foundation of the entire game.
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Zrakor
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Posted - 2006.12.29 16:15:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Zrakor on 29/12/2006 16:17:28
They won't be allowed through the acceleration gates in level 4 missions, that was a decision made in game design which I don't think will be reversed. Capital ships can currently be used in a few missions though, i.e. the ones that don't use acceleration gates (just 1 room), such as the Blockade.
Also in Exploration escalations, all of the escalation sites are 1 room and do allow capital ships. Only the first site, a.k.a. the 'hidden dungeon' which leads to the escalations, does not allow those ships. Which will still give a capital ship owner a huge advantage, since some of the escalation sites in 0.0 are very very hard.
So Capital ships are at the end of the day still very useful in PVE, as long as you know where to use them and have a battleship ready when you don't have the luxury of using one.
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Sabahl
Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.29 16:22:00 -
[28]
ArcSal and Hacking sites also allow capital ships in, although these tend to be completable in a HAC anyway. |
Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.29 16:40:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Cheyenne Shadowborn on 29/12/2006 16:42:14
Originally by: Quilan Ziller
EVE is a MMO game. The MM in MMO are kind of important. The game is designed with PvP interaction in mind.
Okay. Now advertisements allowed but:
Maybe thats why <insert name of other MMO-style-but-not-quite-MMO-with-no-monthly-fee- online-game> is so successfull.
They are not narrow minded enough to force people to do PvP and to force them to have human interaction whenever one plays, making people wait for enough human players to come online for ops in order to have some fun and success. They make a game that omfgbbq can be enjoyed solo OR with other players, and where people CAN PvP but don't have to, or where people can suck up to a big guild (there, I said it) or can do their own thing. In other words they are FLEXIBLE enough to allow players to have fun with their own style of play and still enjoy the benefits of an online game and the community.
I never understood why CCP can't have the players have some decent fun (and by that I mean ability to make more than small change) who want to play solo at times.
Just a thought. --
[21:54:01] BaroteToo > cheyenne shadowborn is an ore theiving dead puke if I catch him |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2006.12.29 17:19:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn Edited by: Cheyenne Shadowborn on 29/12/2006 16:42:14
Originally by: Quilan Ziller
EVE is a MMO game. The MM in MMO are kind of important. The game is designed with PvP interaction in mind.
Okay. Now advertisements allowed but:
Maybe thats why <insert name of other MMO-style-but-not-quite-MMO-with-no-monthly-fee- online-game> is so successfull.
They are not narrow minded enough to force people to do PvP and to force them to have human interaction whenever one plays, making people wait for enough human players to come online for ops in order to have some fun and success. They make a game that omfgbbq can be enjoyed solo OR with other players, and where people CAN PvP but don't have to, or where people can suck up to a big guild (there, I said it) or can do their own thing. In other words they are FLEXIBLE enough to allow players to have fun with their own style of play and still enjoy the benefits of an online game and the community.
I never understood why CCP can't have the players have some decent fun (and by that I mean ability to make more than small change) who want to play solo at times.
Just a thought.
See, this is funny, because I think you actually just described CCP and EVE really well. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
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Verus Potestas
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2006.12.29 18:11:00 -
[31]
Maybe every MMO on the market shouldn't be clones
Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy |
Jenna Ashton
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Posted - 2006.12.29 20:58:00 -
[32]
Lvl 5.. cap ship vs NPC cap ship ?
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Breytli Woelin
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Posted - 2006.12.31 18:52:00 -
[33]
Oh boy, another idiot (the original replyer) who stands as the 1 person out of 1000 who wants people in online games to pvp to do anything.
Hate to break this to some of you (and you'll just flame and rant and ignore my point anyway) but pvp doesn't sell subscriptions. Pvp is a small part of successful online games (EQ, WOW anyone?) because it doesn't sell. Pvp in which you lose your items has been tried in EQ and other online games and found to be a subscription killer. All those "carebear grinders" are the ones who make it possible for the 1 in 1000 who wants to pvp nonestop. If I had to face the risk of losing my ship and everything else EVERY time I logged in (i.e. if CCP removed empire and replaced it with free-for-all pvp everywhere), I'd go back to WOW. Odds are pretty good most players would stop playing in trial after getting podded a few times and seeing how pointless it is to try to survive in a game where inevitably experienced pvpers would farm newbies (since most pvpers, in my experience, don't care for fights where real risk is actually involved to them).
If anything, CCP should be providing more content for pvers, because they likely represent the majority. Most will and do try pvp now and then, but only so long as they can choose to. Don't just take my word for it. Bring up a map sometime and look at the number of players in empire compared to low sec and 0.0. Then take a look at other games and see how many players are "carebear grinders" as compared to pvpers.
So far as the original poster: if the purpose for capital ships is purely pvp, well, I can't see any purpose for allowing them in pve. An (extremely unlikely) alternate is to provide lvl 5 missions and new ships comparable to capital ships, but with penalties oriented toward making them unviable for pvp.
If the OP is unhappy however, well, there are other games out there, and all things (like game subscriptions) eventually come to an end.
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j0sephine
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.31 19:29:00 -
[34]
"They are not narrow minded enough to force people to do PvP and to force them to have human interaction whenever one plays, making people wait for enough human players to come online for ops in order to have some fun and success. (..)
I never understood why CCP can't have the players have some decent fun (and by that I mean ability to make more than small change) who want to play solo at times."
Seeing the number of solo mission runners kitted out with the most expensive gear available, if your idea of decent fun is indeed "ability to make more than small change" and 'not being forced to PvP or interact with others whenever one plays'... it appears that's already possible. Usage of capital ship is by no means required here to allow that.
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2007.01.01 00:57:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 01/01/2007 00:57:45 There are a hundred games out there that cater to the casual carebear with security issues.
If you dont want anything to do with "your pvp playing", what on earth are you doing in our game?
And besides, if you actually understand game mechanics, eve is one of the worst examples for non-interactive afk-timesink-esque grind using armies of alts. I managed to farm about 100m-200m per hour. Mostly afk. In forge. Only 2 accounts.
See usually, i dont shoot people, yet i still "pvp". I trade expensive goods, try to buy rare officer mods for a fraction of the price, sell for several times their value etc. Someone i know managed a stellar heist with a couple pretty worthless t2 BPOs that he sold for not so low prices. And its not over yet...
Eve should be about player interaction. Without player interaction - sorry zrakor - this game is just a laggy mess of poorly designed UI, riddled with bugs.
I think that forcing someone to pvp is a wrong approach - enticing would be better. But if you dont want to interact with people (and i dont mean chatting about your RL), stop trying to ruin our game and find something you enjoy. Grind (call it "ressource management") MMORPGs dont work well for casual players who want to be left alone and play at their own pace. Why not play a good singleplayer game?
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Ennis Metara
Gallente JASDIP
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Posted - 2007.01.01 02:47:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Dau Imperius I'd just like to purchase this ship, and use it to do some missions with friends
For those farsighted among us who missed that the OP is, indeed, experiencing player interaction.
PvP is not the only kind of player interaction available to us. I am not opposed to PvP, and I'll engage when I have to, but I don't seek it out because I know I'm lousy at it (in pretty much every real-time game I've ever played).
My idea of worthwhile player to player interaction is to run a couple of missions with my corp, maybe take part in an organized mining operation, or just chat while managing the industrial end of my operation.
On the other hand, sometimes I like to just go out on my own and blow some stuff up to relieve a bit of stress. I am not playing the game wrong when I do that, any more than a pirate is playing it wrong because he doesn't build mining gear. All three approaches to the game are valid.
It's a big game; there is room for everybody to play the way they like to.
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Nachtjaeger
Minmatar Silent Services Research
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Posted - 2007.01.02 11:43:00 -
[37]
Given the OPs desire to avoid PvP he obviously wouldn't be planning to use his capital ship in low sec or 0.0 to do his missions. As capitals can't be jumped into 0.5 or above i really can't see how he's planning to use one.
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Iva Soreass
Deadly Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.02 16:26:00 -
[38]
i LOL'd. ----------------------------------------------- "Your momma is so fat, BoB thought she was a region and took her!" |
Adamantina
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Posted - 2007.01.02 19:48:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Argenton Sayvers Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 01/01/2007 00:57:45 There are a hundred games out there that cater to the casual carebear with security issues.
If you dont want anything to do with "your pvp playing", what on earth are you doing in our game?
Doing all the **** work you don't want to do, so you afford to get all those things that make you feel like 'big elite PvP master'. And making about 500 times more ISK at it to boot.
It's people like you that make people like me feel better about themselves. PvP whine threads are like the Jerry Springer of EVE-O.
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.03 09:28:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Necoria 4. Macro mission running... Passive tanked Ferox/drake with FoF missile and painter for lvl3s anyone. Go in paint nearest, let the FoF go, approach next gate... cant be that hard to code. Same could be applied to the Moros i mentioned earlier.
Problems; How are you going to target the first ship? A passive tanked ship won't take the damage from aggro all. How are you going to automatically move your ship from one gate to the next?
Seriously, stop giving weight to this. It doesn't happen, and it's just a ridiculous argument that's used to bash mission runners in general. ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them. |
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.03 09:33:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ennis Metara
Originally by: Dau Imperius I'd just like to purchase this ship, and use it to do some missions with friends
For those farsighted among us who missed that the OP is, indeed, experiencing player interaction.
I just wanted to reinforce this. The PVPers always try and paint mission runners as antisocial, friendless loners, and themselves as the exciting gregarious type.
It's a myth. Meeting other people so you can SHOOT at them doesn't make you a socialite, it makes you a socioPATH.
Most mission runners engage with OTHER mission runners on some of the more difficult missions, or just to do the missions faster. Personally I prefer PWP (player WITH player) to PVP. And it STILL comes under the "MM" banner that seems to get trotted out so often. ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them. |
Helen
STK Scientific
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Posted - 2007.01.03 11:04:00 -
[42]
So now pvpers are sociopaths?
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.03 22:57:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Helen So now pvpers are sociopaths?
Well, if you're forcing me to split hairs...those that engage in alliance battles and mutual, BALANCED PVP are, I would say, just playing a game.
Those who gank a hauler, noob or mission runner 1. for very little reward and 2. to get off on the smacktalk it generates...yeah, I'd say that's a fairly snug fitting cap. ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them. |
R3dSh1ft
Caldari FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.04 04:19:00 -
[44]
i dont get it, why do you want to make money just to shoot npc ? :S
thats just dull and no challenge except after the first time you do it...
the real game of eve is about fighting the other players in it, nothing wrong with missions but whats the point in the end if you dont do something more fun than shoot un-challenging AI controlled things all day...
seriously im NOT flaming, tell me... i dont understand ______________________________________
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.05 11:59:00 -
[45]
Originally by: R3dSh1ft ...but whats the point in the end if you dont do something more fun than shoot un-challenging AI controlled things all day...
seriously im NOT flaming, tell me... i dont understand
Well, first you'd have to tell me what SORT of PVPer you are...if you're involved in fleet battles against well armed and well prepared opponents, then I can see your point. If you're ganking unprepared targets, be they haulers, noobs, mission runners or simply massively outnumbering travellers at a gatecamp, then I don't see how it's more fun than missioning.
But to answer your actual question, it's just a different mentality. EVE can be played either for the fun of it, or more as a "collector's" kind of game...building up interesting bits and bobs, which, of course, tend to cost a lot of ISK. Despite what people tell you, mission running isn't the biggest cash cow in EVE - it takes a long time to earn ISk that way...and some of us aren't so keen on losing three month's work just to "enjoy" 5 minutes of combat. ---
I don't mind you disagreeing with me. Just don't say I don't have the SKILLS to comment until you've looked at them. |
Noveron
Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2007.01.05 12:55:00 -
[46]
quilan breitly..
Errmm.. Being right or not what I dont understand is how in earth one can get mad and respond the type dudes like quilan or breitly respond..
Is it so bad to state an opinion or request?
Sometimes instead of flaming you just can say "sorry I dont agree, for me its unbalanced" or "yes, its a good idea, I agree with the thread poster.." You can state reasons in favor why or why not.. but personal attacks are kind of overrecting.. dont you guys think so?
We'd like the game one way or another, not a reason to get p*ssed off about it.
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Nicholai Thomasovich
Caldari Acerbus Vindictum
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Posted - 2007.01.23 17:01:00 -
[47]
Originally by: R3dSh1ft i dont get it, why do you want to make money just to shoot npc ? :S
thats just dull and no challenge except after the first time you do it...
the real game of eve is about fighting the other players in it, nothing wrong with missions but whats the point in the end if you dont do something more fun than shoot un-challenging AI controlled things all day...
seriously im NOT flaming, tell me... i dont understand
There's nothing to "understand" about it, except that different people enjoy different things. "Different strokes for different folks." Some people like to mine. Some like to build. Some like to research. Some like to kill noobs. Some like to run missions. Just because you get no enjoyment from killing NPCs doesn't mean that no one else is allowed to.
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Kingpin Jin
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Posted - 2007.01.23 17:38:00 -
[48]
http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_01.asp 1.10 What is basic game play like?
Quote: The diversity and flexibility of EVE makes it difficult to categorize it by conventional standards...snip...Financial gains made through such activities can be used to upgrade the ship with weapons and equipment and also to develop the character by purchasing skill packs used for training him or her in various skills he will need to advance in the world of EVE.
Players who wish to explore peaceful paths may continue to upgrade their ships to bigger and better cargo vessels (insert also: "fighting ships") with high-end defenses, purchase advanced mining or research equipment and continue to develop their characters by specializing in their preferred skills.
Battleships present the elusive "end-game" for PVE oriented players. Maybe that's why the average subscription lasts "only" about 7 + months.
This is a trial account as I've been hoping to get back into the game, alas the CTD's prevent this from happening. Downloaded, installed the client, made a new character, pressed "enter" and before the station came into view, a CTD. Re-launched the game, was able to get out of the station and see the other noobships..a CTD. Re-launced the game, hopped three jumps to buy some Hobgoblins, sat in a station for 10 mins... CTD. Re-launched and was able to stay on in studying the new rigs for an hour or so. And don't say "fix your comp/settings", you have no clue...
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Radioactive Babe
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Posted - 2007.01.23 20:29:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Radioactive Babe on 23/01/2007 20:29:37 Edited by: Radioactive Babe on 23/01/2007 20:28:45
Originally by: Grey Area .....Meeting other people so you can SHOOT at them doesn't make you a socialite, it makes you a socioPATH.....
quoteworthy
And in your other post you hit the nail on the head for a lot of the more peaceful players, people are collectors and like to fly the new fancy ships, but not in PvP because they just dont like it ....
PvP involving n00bs or industrials or bubbles is the lamest excuse for PvP that I can think of.... Alliances/corps vs Alliance/corps where one well armed person/gang/blob goes head to head with another person/gang/blob IS PvP, everyone goes into it for the fun of a fight, camping a gate to kill someone in their first badger is NOT fun for the vast majority of EVE's playerbase
(edit)Lev 5 missions should cater for dreads/carriers .... there is an endgame for the alliance people (blob dreads on deathstar POS's etc) where is the endgame for the high SP npcers ... so you have all you skills maxed out in caldari, cant use dreads/carriers for anything so no point training for them ...you might as well train ALL minnie skills(/edit) |
Smoking Mirror
Secret Interests Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.24 13:09:00 -
[50]
It is fun to see all the "yarr I'm a pvper!" chuff from people who do nothing more than pirate, blob, or gank industrial alliances. Most pvp is just seeing who can get the drop on who, which means it's hours of sitting in pos's or at gates and then a few seconds of gankage if the other FC makes a mistake.
People who think that MMO = pvp or traveling in clone packs of 200 while some midwestern misfit barks orders on teamspeak at them Just Don't Get It. There are many levels of interaction possible, from cooperative gaming to competitive fighting. Channeling everyone into one is a limited and poor game design.
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Mr Li
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Posted - 2007.01.24 17:12:00 -
[51]
so you want to take a Dreadnought (i.e. a ship that was implented because of POS warfare designed for seiges of large, stationary targets) and use it for lvl 4 missions? You are aware that you'd need to pop a cyno to jump into the next system over if you got a mission there. Also, unless your flying a Moros you won't hit anything. The Moros can only do it because of drones.
I'll save my opinion on dreads in missions, however, your asking CCP to let you bring a Dread/Carrier into high-sec space? Impossible. To be brutally honest it can't be done because imagine the carnage these things could reap in a system like jita. Have you ever been to jita 4-4? There's 3 stations on this one moon, and they get a lot of traffic. Sometimes you have what seems like almost a hundred ships outside the station. Do you know how many of those ships a Moros' drones could take out before concord could kill it? Or for that matter a titan and a DD. My lord, that would be awesome, but people would whine.
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Kingpin Jin
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Posted - 2007.01.24 17:32:00 -
[52]
I think most of us are referring allowing capitals in low-sec and in 0.0. I have unused capital and Thanatos skill books still in my hangar... not even sure if I'll ever train them... probably will but I won't be spending my own cash to get a ship.
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Firecrak
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Posted - 2007.01.24 18:55:00 -
[53]
Eve's PVE sucks balls. Its the most repetitive, monotenous and unproductive form of farming/grinding I've had the displeasure of experiencing. Other than the very occasional "good" drop, everything else salvages for miniscule amounts. With rigs, that looting period has been exponentially increased, with minimal reward vs time spent incentives. However...this game has the best, bar none, pvp out there on the market today (save maybe old skool DAOC, pre TOA).
If you want a great game to go bash boozles with your friends or sit around and use your $10-$20 per month subscription fee to chat to someone claiming to be a female but refusing to send you a link to their RL picture, theres a ton of games out there to satiate your carebear heart...WoW comes to mind.
Can I have your stuff please?
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Karille
Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.01.24 22:02:00 -
[54]
You don't want to do missions in a capital ship, trust me. If you're in a Dread you'll have to use BS sized weapons or you won't hurt anything. Since dreads have less high slots you'll do less damage than a BS. If you're in a carrier you will have to lose drones to the npcs in order to take aggro. You will lose so many drones you'll be ripping your hair out. Also, with the speed capital ships move at it'll take longer to do the mission than if you were doing it in a battleship. If you aren't a PvPer you REALLY DO NOT NEED A CAPITAL FIGHTING SHIP. My advice to you is that if you have so much ******* isk saved up form grinding npcs then perhaps you could use it to learn to fight. _________________________________________________________
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Kingpin Jin
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Posted - 2007.01.25 12:22:00 -
[55]
I wasn't planning on a dread... rather a carrier. And yes, you don't need one but it would be fun... something different. Something where you as a player can play god with npcs, yarrr :D Some relaxing fun, that's all.
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Kanuo Ashkeron
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2007.01.25 16:41:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Kanuo Ashkeron on 25/01/2007 16:38:53 Edited by: Kanuo Ashkeron on 25/01/2007 16:38:21 I think nobody is forced to PVP in this game (i mean only the combat thing). But why do you want to fly a PVP ship then? There are only the richest of the rich PVP¦ers who fly faction ships, but many PVE¦ers fly them because they have not that risk of loosing them. Do see me whining "Hey CCP drop more factions ships, so that I can buy one every 2 weeks and get it blown up in PVP"?
Kanuo
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Lara Renquist
Minmatar The Phoenix Confederacy
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Posted - 2007.01.25 18:15:00 -
[57]
Capital's in lv 4's would be bad indeed, hope for lv 5's :D
On the PVE VS PVP point, whatabout those mission runners that are doing the lv 4 grinds so one day they have the cash and skill's to pvp effectively?
That's the way i am playing at this moment,.... you can say hey why don't you start pvp'ing already?
well simply put, when i will engage in pvp i want to come in with a bang :D and leave with a bang probably aswell
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