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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 8 post(s)
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1986	Posted - 2015.10.15 15:30:50 - [1] - Quote Very interesting. A question: do we get to choose which skills are converted into skill packets? (contrived example: I am deeply ashamed that I trained Gallente Cruiser; can I apply skill extractors to myself to expunge the gallente curse from my name?) This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1989	Posted - 2015.10.15 15:38:50 - [2] - Quote Peter Powers wrote: Quote: 0 GÇô 5 million skillpoints = 500,000 unallocated skillpoints added 5 GÇô 50 million skillpoints = 400,000 unallocated skillpoints added 50 GÇô 80 million skillpoints = 200,000 unallocated skillpoints added > 80 million skillpoints = 50,000 unallocated skillpoints added really? old players have to pay 10 times the price new players do for skillpoints? as if it wasn't enought that most new content introduced is focused on new players, no now vets are actively being punished for sticking with the game? They are pretty much forced to do this, honestly. Otherwise, everyone in eve would generate bastard farms whose only purpose is funneling SP to their main character. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1989	Posted - 2015.10.15 15:42:33 - [3] - Quote Honestly, I'm pretty surprised to the negative reaction here. People posting about this (both here and from without) are quick to call this "ISK for SP;" did you all deliberately ignore the part where you have to liquidate an existing pilot's skill points to fuel the skill packets? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1989	Posted - 2015.10.15 15:49:36 - [4] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Querns wrote: They are pretty much forced to do this, honestly. Otherwise, everyone in eve would generate bastard farms whose only purpose is funneling SP to their main character. They are not forced to to this. CCP instead should be coerced to develop proper, engaging and awesome game content that makes people want to stick around (see a couple of my suggestions for example openly brags about it). This is not that content, this is nothing but yet another money grab that requires no real effort or development cost from CCP to actually improve the game. Developer time is not fungible, and CCP is able to work on multiple things at once to no ill effect. This argument comes up time and time again any time something even remotely unpalatable arrives and I'm tired of hearing it. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1989	Posted - 2015.10.15 15:51:53 - [5] - Quote Izmaragd Dawnstar wrote: By all that is holy, please don't do this. I think you severely underestimate the min-maxing a lot of people will go through twelve hoops to purchase more and more SP. Yes, it may be terribly inefficient at high spellpower levels, but running 5 or 10 accounts to fuel one is not unheard of and a lot of people have mountains of isk on their hands. If you want to deal with SP brickwalls and requirements, there are numerous other ways to do it. This is highly inefficient compared to simply buying skill packets from the open market. The diminishing returns on skill packets obviates the need to run a personal bastard farm for one character. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1989	Posted - 2015.10.15 15:53:23 - [6] - Quote Cynthia Aishai wrote: worst idea ever even worse than jump fatigue and the fleet warp change You're like a critical mass of uninformed opinions, aren't you? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1990	Posted - 2015.10.15 15:57:33 - [7] - Quote grevicious wrote: is this the same way WoW went PAY TO WIN. game dead I'd choose a different example if I were you. WoW is certainly less trafficked than it was in its heyday, but it is FAR from dead. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1990	Posted - 2015.10.15 15:59:47 - [8] - Quote Izmaragd Dawnstar wrote: Querns wrote: They are pretty much forced to do this, honestly. Otherwise, everyone in eve would generate bastard farms whose only purpose is funneling SP to their main character. Oh, but people will do that. If your character has less than 80M skill points, 5:2 SP ratio nothing to sneeze at. Assuming you get an account running +4s on an ideal remap, it takes just under 8 days to generate the required 500000 SP. If you have 8 accounts running, your character essentially can get 200000 more SP every day, compared to only 62640 your get with +4s and an ideal remap. More than 3 times the amount. If this is not pay-to-win, I don't know what is. Why would you do this when you can just buy the skill packets hot off the market? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1994	Posted - 2015.10.15 16:04:32 - [9] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Querns wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: Querns wrote: They are pretty much forced to do this, honestly. Otherwise, everyone in eve would generate bastard farms whose only purpose is funneling SP to their main character. They are not forced to to this. CCP instead should be coerced to develop proper, engaging and awesome game content that makes people want to stick around (see a couple of my suggestions for example openly brags about it). This is not that content, this is nothing but yet another money grab that requires no real effort or development cost from CCP to actually improve the game. Developer time is not fungible, and CCP is able to work on multiple things at once to no ill effect. This argument comes up time and time again any time something even remotely unpalatable arrives and I'm tired of hearing it. Then plug your ears and block my posts. I do not see CCP being capable of working on multiple things at once without compromising all they work on with lots of detrimental effects. They were not capable of developing Dust besides of EVE, they were not capable of developing Sov properly while working on what? Gunjack? And went on vacation directly after the release. They left the industry part unfinished because they needed to work on sov. The list goes on and on and on. But yes, CCP's dev time is not fungible and they themselves time and again stress that things are expensive in terms of dev time. Yet, CCP wastes their dev time on SKINs, wastes their dev time on this garbage, wasts it on what not mobile while the main game they have needs so many fixes, they'd be busy for another decade just to fix the bugs and broken things before introducing new content. And they waste their infugible dev time on things that do not improve the game itself, but only introduce more ways to grab money. You may not want to hear that anymore, but if you are fed up of it, then do something against it. Hey, it was a (perhaps na+»ve) hope that it would convince someone to stop framing their argument around a patently untrue concept. All you do when you scream "WHY DIDN'T YOU WORK ON XYZ INSTEAD????" is prove your own short-sightedness. It dilutes your entire argument and makes you look like a fool, for an easily-preventable reason. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1994	Posted - 2015.10.15 16:05:49 - [10] - Quote Gilbaron wrote: two very dangerous things: 1. this allows experienced people who have done something "terrible" a fresh start WITH SP and WITHOUT having to use the bazarr Why is this a bad thing? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1994	Posted - 2015.10.15 16:11:48 - [11] - Quote John Selth wrote: This is probably the most exploitable SP system eve thought of (maybe just under the PLEX for SP refund idea tossed around once). All you are doing is allowing us older players who can pool so much more isk, to essentially cut our training time to nothing while boosting out useful alt capacity. That and destroying the economy behind the character bazaar and the need to buy useful characters to meet the demands you are currently facing. Uh, what? How does this change affect your ability to train alts? You can still convert SP to isk via making bastard farms, and as a bonus it won't require six months of outlay to do it. If it's destroying your cottage industry, boo hoo. (And I say this as a person who keeps about half his accounts going by training in-demand pilots to sell on the character bazaar.) This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1994	Posted - 2015.10.15 16:13:38 - [12] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Querns wrote: Hey, it was a (perhaps na+»ve) hope that it would convince someone to stop framing their argument around a patently untrue concept. All you do when you scream "WHY DIDN'T YOU WORK ON XYZ INSTEAD????" is prove your own short-sightedness. It dilutes your entire argument and makes you look like a fool, for an easily-preventable reason. I do not scream, that is the CFC's territory of getting their point across. And listing years of failed attempts at working on several things at once can hardly be called short-sighted. But I get your point. I am not the customer CCP needs anymore, I argue too much, inquire too much, question things too much, I am not satisfied easily enough. CCP needs customers who meek and mild about everything. In fact, this is what the entire economy needs these days because if you just scratch a little bit on the surface, you would get a heart attack about what you are actually subjected to. Don't lie; you'll keep playing this game anyways. Don't try and pull the "LOL I QUIT" bit; it never works. I like that you had to resort to a character affiliation barb, too. It really helps your position. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 1994	Posted - 2015.10.15 16:15:38 - [13] - Quote sharpscg wrote: I don't like this. Developing a character and developing its capabilities over years is something important to eve. People like me with tons of alts are already not really connected to their toons, being able to freely shift around SP will make most players loose even more touch with their characters. The way buying characters works right now is completely fine. Did you miss the part where it costs ISK to affect the transfer? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2002	Posted - 2015.10.15 16:23:31 - [14] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Querns wrote: Don't lie; you'll keep playing this game anyways. Don't try and pull the "LOL I QUIT" bit; it never works. I like that you had to resort to a character affiliation barb, too. It really helps your position. This is also the venue of CFC people to get their points heard. I do not need to threaten with my useless unsubbing. I am not interested in leaving the game and rather want to form it with my contributions. Threatening to leave accomplishes nothing, but I guess you know that best because it's your mind game. It's the venue of all people to get their points heard. You're just focusing on the Imperium pilots, for a reason I am not sure of yet. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2003	Posted - 2015.10.15 16:26:46 - [15] - Quote Cowboy Arnerette wrote: Mr Blu wrote: I think this is good idea. Paying for skills is already happening in character trading. Nothing new there. Only people against this are elitist bittervets. Not at all true. If you look at the length of time of characters posting in this thread you'll find that very few are vets (unless you define "vet" as over 1 year old). Clearly you have never heard of the posting alt. Like, seriously. People actually choose to hide their affiliations when posting on eve-o. They're ashamed of who they are. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2003	Posted - 2015.10.15 16:29:25 - [16] - Quote Sexy Cakes wrote: I'll up the anty: If this isn't scrapped by Monday morning next week I'm giving away everything I have and biomassing my characters. CCP isn't motivated by your decision to hold your account hostage. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2003	Posted - 2015.10.15 16:35:19 - [17] - Quote Sexy Cakes wrote: Querns wrote: Sexy Cakes wrote: I'll up the anty: If this isn't scrapped by Monday morning next week I'm giving away everything I have and biomassing my characters. CCP isn't motivated by your decision to hold your account hostage. Ehh I'm not trying to do any sort of hostage thing with my account. It's more of a fun way to go out. I've suffered enough of the bonehead decisions of CCP and if this makes it in the game it'll be my last straw. Then why post about it at all? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2005	Posted - 2015.10.15 16:36:55 - [18] - Quote Sexy Cakes wrote: Querns wrote: Sexy Cakes wrote: Querns wrote: Sexy Cakes wrote: I'll up the anty: If this isn't scrapped by Monday morning next week I'm giving away everything I have and biomassing my characters. CCP isn't motivated by your decision to hold your account hostage. Ehh I'm not trying to do any sort of hostage thing with my account. It's more of a fun way to go out. I've suffered enough of the bonehead decisions of CCP and if this makes it in the game it'll be my last straw. Then why post about it at all? So my fellow forum trolls can get some entertainment from my butthurt. A likely story. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2005	Posted - 2015.10.15 16:40:00 - [19] - Quote Alt Pilot1 wrote: Aryth wrote: Great change. Best in years. However, could we get some more sample numbers like the possible Aurum costs? I agree this is brilliant. It doesn't take anything away from the older players, and turns Skill Points a commodity that can be freely traded in the Market Window. I am not sure why some people are against this, and some say it's "using Aurum to buy SP".... You are clearly NOT using Aurum to buy SP, because the character has to have existing SP to be extracted..... The Aurum is basically a payment for the extraction service. The only reason why I think some people are opposed to this, is because they don't want to be instantly challenged by younger players...? The outrage is mostly falling into two camps. The first camp is people who genuinely don't understand the change, or stopped reading halfway through to ejaculate some vitriol onto the forums as their emotional state demanded. The second camp is people who feel that doggedly logging in over the course of more than a decade entitles them to some sort of special consideration. These people are threatened by the (largely illusory) vignette of a rich player supplanting their SP total by applying ISK directly to their forehead. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2008	Posted - 2015.10.15 16:51:53 - [20] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Alt Pilot1 wrote: Incurso wrote: I don't get all the hate EVE already has a pay to win option. Anyone with to much real life money and not enough brains or patience can drop several hundred dollars on a bought toon then a pile of PLEX. You may or may not figure out how to play well but you can go from zero to high skill and high end ships with out ever undocking once and in a few hours. I assume it doesn't happen much because you have to pay ALOT to win. IDEA: If this happens can we get some sort of slop bucket to train points we intend to sell? I have no interest in capital ships and I'm nearly max SP on the things I want. I would trade SP for ISK. I just don't want to give up the stuff I have now. I think because Eve has too much E-Peen. A lot of older players want to be forever above the younger players, and don't want them to catch up that quickly. This new SP transfer system can be really good for Eve Online in the long run. It'll make it more noob friendly. Famous last words. Yeah, how dare the game be more accessible! This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2008	Posted - 2015.10.15 16:54:27 - [21] - Quote Robert Warner wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: [img]http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68656/1/skilltrade1_550.jpg[/img] The Character Bazaar has been around for a while, allowing enterprising players to buy and sell characters from others. Lately, we've been exploring some new ideas around improving it, but ultimately realized that our effort was better spent investigating a similar idea: skill trading. This is a pretty big thing, so make sure you read the entire dev blog, and let us know what you think of the ideas inside. While many of my compatriots will likely shun any notion of trading skill points, I must say the idea doesn't bother me (and yes I'm a player who has multiple characters over or approaching 200M SP). I don't mind certain ingrained mechanics being changed provided there is a rational reason behind it and that the solution is well conceived and well implemented (take note Fozzie sov). My main concern is in pricing of the packet itself in Aurum: we are already developing a serious issue with the price of PLEX and without being a doomsayer, the game has lost 25% of its active player base since February of this year (source: Eve-offline.net) - an extraordinary statistic by any reckoning. My primary interest is seeing a recovery in player activity, for the good of both myself and the Developer. While I'm sure CCP's accountants are eyeing this as a financial opportunity, I would very strongly suggest extreme caution in the introduction of further micro-transactions based on the PLEX/Aurum model at this time. Eve is currently in a very delicate position, following a number of somewhat dubious design changes, now requiring substantial time and investment to repair. If the game world loses critical mass of players, it may 'fail cascade' very quickly. If such a feature really must be introduced within the next year, careful planning of pricing will be required to ensure no further stress is placed on the transferable game time market. This is a fair point, but it's sort of looking at it the wrong way. Right now, to affect a transfer of SP to a person, one has to pay 2 PLEX just to do the transfer. This is in addition to whatever deal the two parties struck. Adding an aurum cost to skill extractors merely maintains this "tax;" it doesn't add a new source of pressure to PLEX. You can expect quite a bit of the pressure to PLEX applied by the Character Bazaar to be relieved as folks move to this more granular, personalizable system. Of course, the transfer won't be perfect; it could indeed increase total PLEX pressure, or maybe even reduce it overall. It remains to be seen. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2011	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:01:48 - [22] - Quote Drilla wrote: Querns wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Alt Pilot1 wrote: Incurso wrote: I don't get all the hate EVE already has a pay to win option. Anyone with to much real life money and not enough brains or patience can drop several hundred dollars on a bought toon then a pile of PLEX. You may or may not figure out how to play well but you can go from zero to high skill and high end ships with out ever undocking once and in a few hours. I assume it doesn't happen much because you have to pay ALOT to win. IDEA: If this happens can we get some sort of slop bucket to train points we intend to sell? I have no interest in capital ships and I'm nearly max SP on the things I want. I would trade SP for ISK. I just don't want to give up the stuff I have now. I think because Eve has too much E-Peen. A lot of older players want to be forever above the younger players, and don't want them to catch up that quickly. This new SP transfer system can be really good for Eve Online in the long run. It'll make it more noob friendly. Famous last words. Yeah, how dare the game be more accessible! Because every time it's made more accessible it has increased the userbase right? That's why there are more online now than 5 years ago right? Correlation is not causation. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2011	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:03:38 - [23] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Querns wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Famous last words. Yeah, how dare the game be more accessible! As someone else already said, CCP's move to make the game "more accessible" have been smashing successes so for. Naivety is a bad thing for a business. And as I've said, correlation is not causation. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2012	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:10:48 - [24] - Quote Drilla wrote: Querns wrote: Drilla wrote: Querns wrote: Yeah, how dare the game be more accessible! Because every time it's made more accessible it has increased the userbase right? That's why there are more online now than 5 years ago right? Correlation is not causation. If you understood EVE and had played it long enough, you (and CCP) would know the only thing that brings in new players and retains them in any significant numbers are vets. Penalizing vets are just plain stupid. You can put all the makeup on the pig you want, it's still a pig - vets bring the sandbox to life and that is what retains the new players. How does the new system "penalize vets"? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2012	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:11:58 - [25] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Querns wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: Famous last words. Yeah, how dare the game be more accessible! As someone else already said, CCP's move to make the game "more accessible" have been smashing successes so for. Naivety is a bad thing for a business. And as I've said, correlation is not causation. Nor does correlation exclude causation. Sure, but the burden of proof is on the person who says "X happened, therefore the fact that Y also happened shows a direct relationship." This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2012	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:12:56 - [26] - Quote Banedon Runestar wrote: First, the economics are terrible. At the cost of 2 PLEX per 500,00 SP, you're not going to get any takers. That's 2B+ ISK and climbing everyday, the Character Bazaar isn't nearly so expensive. CCP has not yet set the price of the skill extractors. It will probably be quite a bit cheaper than 2 PLEX. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2012	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:14:50 - [27] - Quote Murkar Omaristos wrote: I said in an earlier post that this was ridiculous and stupid. I take that back after reading some of the other posts and thinking further. This could be very good for newer players and player retention. What's ridiculous about it is that CCP is making this a pay-to-win service by making it available for plex. Limit the number of transfers to like two or three a year, so rich old bittervets and people who just want to buy plex to win can't abuse this, and it'd be fine. Unfortunately, this is not possible. Right now, affecting a character transfer causes 2 PLEX to be removed from CCP's Liabilities sheet and resolved. Introduction of skill extractors without at least attempting to mirror this realization of liabilities is bad for business. There's absolutely no chance they will be introduced without an associated PLEX/Aurum cost. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2017	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:17:04 - [28] - Quote Mynxee wrote: It's almost like you're trying to turn skill training into some weird market mini game. Or wondering how you're going to avoid screams of despair due to some planned elimination of skills that people have spent considerable time training already. Or perhaps you're just trying to milk more cash from new players desperate to "catch up". Skill training is already a market "minigame." Visit the character bazaar for more details. I, personally, keep some of my accounts isk neutral by training pilots specifically to sell on the character bazaar. Mynxee wrote: "skillrights" This is a good phrase. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2017	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:23:14 - [29] - Quote Senshi Hawk wrote: Let's make this very clear. Buying, training and selling pilots is my main source of income in this game. I am not wealthy. I am also not poor. Giving people the ability to shed skill points that they may deem "wasted", and in turn receive ISK for unallocated skill points, is something that will benefit the wealthy and make the ISK Ceiling higher. It is not overtly different than paying for subscription time, in the sense that not everybody can afford to do so. I do not approve of paying for skill points. I do not approve of raising the ISK Ceiling. and I do not approve of anything that decreases the return value (fun OR isk) of training and selling your own pilots or pilots that you have acquired on an open market. This is not a particularly compelling appeal. Cottage markets get destroyed all the time, and no tears are shed by the ones swinging the sledgehammer. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2022	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:24:48 - [30] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: As someone else already said, CCP's move to make the game "more accessible" have been smashing successes so for. Naivety is a bad thing for a business. And as I've said, correlation is not causation. Nor does correlation exclude causation. Sure, but the burden of proof is on the person who says "X happened, therefore the fact that Y also happened shows a direct relationship." Correlation is evidence (or perhaps more accurately an analysis of evidence, but semantics). Evidence that can be used to support a conclusion of causation. Ignoring that evidence with a platitude of "correlation is not causation" is foolish. The general public lifted "correlation is not causation" from scientific literature, most notably the "debate" on climate change. Yet, in the broad scientific community, correlation is used as evidence of causation in tens of thousands of papers across every quantifiable subject imaginable. Correlation alone does not prove causation, but it can be and is used as part of a set of proofs for causation. Evidence alone is not sufficient. It has to be shown to directly affect the causation. Observing PCU count drop isn't even that great as evidence, because PCU itself is only tenuously related to subscriber count. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2022	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:25:37 - [31] - Quote Murkar Omaristos wrote: Querns wrote: Murkar Omaristos wrote: I said in an earlier post that this was ridiculous and stupid. I take that back after reading some of the other posts and thinking further. This could be very good for newer players and player retention. What's ridiculous about it is that CCP is making this a pay-to-win service by making it available for plex. Limit the number of transfers to like two or three a year, so rich old bittervets and people who just want to buy plex to win can't abuse this, and it'd be fine. Unfortunately, this is not possible. Right now, affecting a character transfer causes 2 PLEX to be removed from CCP's Liabilities sheet and resolved. Introduction of skill extractors without at least attempting to mirror this realization of liabilities is bad for business. There's absolutely no chance they will be introduced without an associated PLEX/Aurum cost. Yeah :( sad panda. Golden bullets here we come. It seems you completely missed the point of what I said. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2022	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:26:42 - [32] - Quote Lucian Solomon wrote: With this many tears you're on to something big CCP. Keep up the good work. It's the future, plug me in, load em up I'm going to learn jiu jitsu. +1 That it took 15 pages for someone to (basically) make this reference to The Matrix astounds me. I would have made it myself, but I had more substantive things to say. (Not to discount the value of a good reference.) This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2022	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:28:58 - [33] - Quote Acks wrote: This is about as wrong a way to handle this as possible. I can not emphasize that strongly enough 1) There should NEVER be the ability to buy SP. Period full stop. The existence of the character bazaar must really irk you. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2022	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:31:02 - [34] - Quote Josia wrote: My opinion: NO. What CCP will say when they search this thread: Look 5% say they like the idea. Hooray. Let's do it . It is curious, isn't it? Actually, no -- most of the people who dislike the idea are posting word salads rife with the tell-tale signs of an emotional outburst. Any sane person can easily discount these posts, as they add nothing. Those who like the change typically post like me, and therefore are more worthy of consideration. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2022	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:32:15 - [35] - Quote Nick The HITMAN wrote: Don't do it. This is simply trading SP for AUR. I suppose the fact that you have to load the extractor with SP already in someone's brain is completely lost on you. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2022	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:34:24 - [36] - Quote Madgic wrote: When did Eve become Facebook? Payers don't have to play the game to earn isk, and soon they wont even have to log on to max out their skills. No No No NO Worst Idea ever please Don't candy Crush my game. Ah, yes, the onerous burden of logging in. I have a 300 day skill queue and I can donate PLEX to my account to keep it alive from without. Clearly, the fact that I need to log in to manage it about twice a year is what made my SP have meaning. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2027	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:37:04 - [37] - Quote Grog Barrel wrote: Querns wrote: Josia wrote: My opinion: NO. What CCP will say when they search this thread: Look 5% say they like the idea. Hooray. Let's do it . It is curious, isn't it? Actually, no -- most of the people who dislike the idea are posting word salads rife with the tell-tale signs of an emotional outburst. Any sane person can easily discount these posts, as they add nothing. Those who like the change typically post like me, and therefore are more worthy of consideration. I find the amount of posts by goonies whiteknighting this idea rather interesting at this point, as if the idea itself came from an important (ex)goonie... ohwait. Who, Rise? He's not a goon. In fact, there are no more goons left on staff at CCP. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2027	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:38:01 - [38] - Quote Tado wrote: No thank you this is a terrible idea. I have been playing this game since day one and for me this idea of yours will kill EVE for me. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume your motivation for playing Eve is to watch the SP number go up. I'd recommend Cookie Clicker as a more satisfying number incrementing simulator, personally. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2027	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:45:07 - [39] - Quote Hendrink Collie wrote: Querns wrote: Tado wrote: No thank you this is a terrible idea. I have been playing this game since day one and for me this idea of yours will kill EVE for me. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume your motivation for playing Eve is to watch the SP number go up. I'd recommend Cookie Clicker as a more satisfying number incrementing simulator, personally. I don't know, I personally really like making the ship spinner counter go up. Good point. Eve also makes my laptop overheat less than cookie clicker does. :V This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2031	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:47:50 - [40] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: Jenn aSide wrote: As someone else already said, CCP's move to make the game "more accessible" have been smashing successes so for. Naivety is a bad thing for a business. [...] Sure, but the burden of proof is on the person who says "X happened, therefore the fact that Y also happened shows a direct relationship." Correlation is evidence (or perhaps more accurately an analysis of evidence, but semantics). Evidence that can be used to support a conclusion of causation. Ignoring that evidence with a platitude of "correlation is not causation" is foolish. The general public lifted "correlation is not causation" from scientific literature, most notably the "debate" on climate change. Yet, in the broad scientific community, correlation is used as evidence of causation in tens of thousands of papers across every quantifiable subject imaginable. Correlation alone does not prove causation, but it can be and is used as part of a set of proofs for causation. Evidence alone is not sufficient. It has to be shown to directly affect the causation. Observing PCU count drop isn't even that great as evidence, because PCU itself is only tenuously related to subscriber count. Every argument or thesis starts off with nothing but a scrap of evidence or observation. Nascent ideas are not discarded out of hand because they haven't been completely proven yet. Especially if there is some evidence for them. My own view is that driving eve too far into the "accessible" category may result in depriving the game of unique aspects - choices with consequences. From where I stand, the drive to make sov more accessible (looking at you sov wands & ceptors) has directly led to a great many individuals and entities out right abandoning the game entirely. This isn't some PCU count bullshit. Fck PCU. This is about long-term players and community organizations preferring (figurative) death to living with these "ease of accessibility" changes. Selling SP for isk, in any arbitrary amount, in any arbitrary package removes hard choices from the game. I like* hard choices. I like playing games with hard choices. Today you can buy a character, true. But that is a character crafted by another, with it's own flaws and skills not made to tailor for each individual. And you pay a market rate for them - some combinations of SP are worth more than others depending on the meta. Creating such characters, choosing to buy characters that are imperfect in one way or another represents hard choices made by either the buyer or the seller, and this is good. If I didn't want hard choices, I'd be playing candy crush or DudeBroShooter 2015 October Edition. Except no one on the internet actually performs the research. They proclaim "X is correlated with Y, therefore X causes Y" and are done. What's worse, is that people believe them. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2031	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:49:42 - [41] - Quote Felo Maxun wrote: "We hope that because this feature is modeled from the Character Bazaar, a long-standing and well-established feature, we are already pointed in a good direction." This feature is not "modeled from the Character Bazaar" not in the slightest. There is basically only one thing in eve that cant be bought.... and you want to put it up for sale. This is a sad day. You may wish to re-examine what the character bazaar does, because it isn't what you think it is. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2031	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:50:31 - [42] - Quote Duffyman wrote: Hi, not meaning to take sides, but what is the difference between this and the Character Bazaar, in terms of P2W? There is absolutely none. Don't let anyone try and tell you differently. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2031	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:52:55 - [43] - Quote Thalen Draganos wrote: I'm not a fan of this idea as a whole, BUT, I have been saying for years now that I wished there was a way to get rid of skills I don't want and reallocate them to skills I do want. With that in mind, is that possible? To use an extractor to remove the skill points I don't want with a Transneural Skill Extractor and turn that in to Transneural Skill Packets that I can then turn in to free xp and reallocate? Having 170mil sp on this character alone, I would absolutely love to shuffle that around or use them on my other characters. That alone would be a dream come true. It's a bit limited, but essentially, yes. You'll have to pay a cost in either Aurum or ISK (by buying them from the secondary market) for the privilege, but you can absolutely do this. The limitation is that you can't suckle away skills that are a prerequisite to other skills. Like, if you wanted to remove Gallente Frigate, but had Gallente Destroyer trained, you couldn't remove Gallente Frigate without first eliminating Gallente Destroyer. This is mostly so you can't put yourself in a potentially weird situation with respect to prerequisite skills. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2032	Posted - 2015.10.15 17:57:26 - [44] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: Except no one on the internet actually performs the research. They proclaim "X is correlated with Y, therefore X causes Y" and are done. What's worse, is that people believe them. That doesn't mean we have to stoop to the standards of the lowest common denominator of the internet, does it? Frankly, it does. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2032	Posted - 2015.10.15 18:01:37 - [45] - Quote Madgic wrote: Querns wrote: Madgic wrote: When did Eve become Facebook? Payers don't have to play the game to earn isk, and soon they wont even have to log on to max out their skills. No No No NO Worst Idea ever please Don't candy Crush my game. Ah, yes, the onerous burden of logging in. I have a 300 day skill queue and I can donate PLEX to my account to keep it alive from without. Clearly, the fact that I need to log in to manage it about twice a year is what made my SP have meaning. Surely you are exactly what is causing the downturn in player base then, Why even sub, if your not going to play?, It was just a hypothetical example. In truth, while I do have a 300 day skill queue, I log in fairly regularly. I even got a few kills recently during the Cloud Ring campaign. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2032	Posted - 2015.10.15 18:02:56 - [46] - Quote May Arethusa wrote: While an interesting attempt at a compromise, it's still a terrible idea. Skillpoint farming is quite literally, the most risk-free form of isk generation you could suggest, and wouldn't be that difficult. As has been pointed out already, you're looking at an 8-day cycle per character. There is absolutely no way anyone can interfere with this process either, perhaps if skill loss were still a thing this might gain a little more traction. That's ignoring the obvious "X is nerfed, liquidate and remap to Y" process most low-SP PVP characters will go through. There's no longer any desire to push a character beyond a specific point under this system. You simply liquidate superfluous SP for profit, remap each time your FotM is nerfed, and spend a day or two at most training back the lost SP. Nice try, but no thanks. You can already do this. I've been doing this for years by selling in-demand characters on the Character Bazaar, trained specifically for the purpose of sale. Bastard farms are not particularly new. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2032	Posted - 2015.10.15 18:03:55 - [47] - Quote Captain Africa wrote: TheSmokingHertog wrote: Skinzee wrote: Skinzee wrote: I have a question for ALL people that say this is a bad idea... --- WHAT EFFECT WOULD IT HAVE ON YOU AS A PILOT IF THIS WOULD ACTUALLY GO LIVE? --- There is already an option to buy 0-200m SP characters... Character Bazaar - (Thats Pay2Win if you look at it that way) Would love someone to actually give me a valid answer to this question. As far as I can see, there is none. I do... Bitter vets would have more people around them that could fly high end doctrines like they do. Just by roaming off their own SP. Lemme throw this right back at you ...I had to wait 6 years to get my character trained up to be 145 mil sp do you think it fair that you would be able to achieve that by just buying sp and whalla ? Given that the achievement's barrier to entry is merely time and the payment of a monthly subscription, yes, I think it's totally fair. Your accomplishment is fairly meaningless; anyone can do it if they just wait. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2032	Posted - 2015.10.15 18:04:42 - [48] - Quote Estella Osoka wrote: So, if CCP instigates this, will Character Trading be removed? This is supposed to be the replacement for the Character Bazaar right? So why would we need Character Trading anymore? Otherwise, this will lead to a great new form of Character trading where we can easily build specced toons for a specific function, and then sell them. Depending on the final costs, which will probably be rather high, I think we can look at toons selling for a bit more. The dev blog says, at the bottom, that the Character Bazaar will remain. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2034	Posted - 2015.10.15 18:11:25 - [49] - Quote Nergart wrote: ....so how long before eve is free to play? i only ask so i can stop paying CCP any money? Eve is already free to play. I have only ever directly given CCP money once, for my initial 30 days of subscription time. After that, I have kept all my accounts going strictly from in-game isk. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2035	Posted - 2015.10.15 18:18:42 - [50] - Quote FZappa wrote: beside this reeking of pay to win (which can already be done today by buying a character off the bazaar) this messes up our ability to asses a character risk level by looking at its age. for example , that lone 3 day old character in system with me is not much of a risk.. suddenly , he decloaks in a bomber , points me , and lights a covops cyno for his blops buddies in other words , this can be exploited to game breaking levels by either players with deep wallets or vast sums of isk handy . I recommend adopting a Not Blue Shoot It policy. Also, in my experience (on both sides of the fence,) if you wait to react until you've loaded the character info screen, you're probably already dead. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2035	Posted - 2015.10.15 18:24:49 - [51] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: Querns wrote: Nergart wrote: ....so how long before eve is free to play? i only ask so i can stop paying CCP any money? Eve is already free to play. I have only ever directly given CCP money once, for my initial 30 days of subscription time. After that, I have kept all my accounts going strictly from in-game isk. tsk, I expect better than that of you, Q You know that any plex has been paid for by somebody so your claim of free actually is 'I have other people to pay for it' m Note that I did not say that my choices had denied CCP income. I'm saying I didn't have to supply the income personally. In this sense, eve is "free." This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2035	Posted - 2015.10.15 18:25:44 - [52] - Quote Devin Wallace wrote: Tzu Wu wrote: Tado wrote: No thank you this is a terrible idea. I have been playing this game since day one and for me this idea of yours will kill EVE for me. You bittervets really need to get over yourselves.You've been playing since day 1 and want to hold that "elite" status until the server finally shuts down? I say that because it seems bittervets would rather the game day then CCP make any changes that might effect their "elite" status. I haven't been playing this for a complete 4 years quite yet, and I feel the same way as any 13 year bittervet. I have personally attempted to train and influence at least 20 new players into making EVE part of their life. I have succeeded in only a handful of cases, because most humans simply do not have the long term resolve and commitment. I'm sure many can tell you the same story. I played through a time when this game was still in it's most rugged and unpolished forms. No health meter on drones in the drone-bay. Ugly asymmetrical ship hulls. The NeoCom icons were colorful. There was a jukebox. Corps did not have the option of turning off friendly fire. The Venture did not exist. Cruisers were poorly balanced and bonuses on most ships didn't really make sense. I was scanning wormhole chains when probes had to be moved 1 at a time and I could only use 6 because of SP limitations I had. If you failed to update your clone, you suffered a substantial and painful loss of SP. I lost Minmatar Battleship 5, Minmatar Battlecruiser 5, and Gallente Battlecruiser 5 while scrambling to reach staging areas during the chaos of the Halloween War. I dodged gate-camps from almost every highsec mercenary group in New Eden from 2012-2013, scraping a living off level 3 missions. I was ganked twice in wspace while soloing sleepers with my old nanocane. I went through faction warfare with the Minmatar Militia. I drove my security status down to -5.2 with the first months of Brave Newbies and spent nearly 2 weeks in Great Wildlands, ratting it back up with a Hound, when security ticks were every 15 minutes, not every 5 minutes. Ancillary Shield Boosters did not exist. Ancillary Armor reppers did not exist. Interceptors were not immune to bubbles. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I stuck with it through this game when it was far less hospitable to new players, and I earned every single skillpoint I have through trials of fire. I am PROUD to be a bittervet. Giving new players even more shortcuts and easy way out...it makes me feel sick "I suffered, so everyone else has to suffer too, or my suffering has lost meaning." This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2035	Posted - 2015.10.15 18:28:48 - [53] - Quote Sizeof Void wrote: Wow, what an incredibly bad idea. I don't see any benefit to new players here. The in-game cost will certainly be prohibitive for a new player - most of whom struggle to grind enough ISK to pay for ships. Also, in this era of F2P games, new players are increasingly less willing to pay additional RL cash, in order to catch up to older players - they fully expect CCP to come up with a better, ie. free, method to do this. I do see this system being used to exacerbate the supercap proliferation problem in null-sec. The current limit on supercaps is not the production cost/time of the ships, but rather the availability of enough specifically-skilled toons to perma-pilot them. With this new system, hundreds, if not thousands, of unused toons can be instantly repurposed to supercap pilots. Are you blind? The unmitigated financial success of games like Dota 2, Team Fortress 2, League of Legends, and Hearthstone are overwhelmingly proving that, more than ever, people are MORE willing to pay additional RL cash in order to catch up with older players. (Or buy hats, as the case may be.) This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2035	Posted - 2015.10.15 18:31:13 - [54] - Quote luobote kong wrote: I do not like playing Pay2Win games. A key reason I have stuck at Eve is because it is not Pay2Win. CCP think carefully about this. Did you somehow ignore the part where one can convert PLEX, purchased with RL money, into ISK in the secondary markets? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2035	Posted - 2015.10.15 18:34:43 - [55] - Quote luobote kong wrote: Querns wrote: luobote kong wrote: I do not like playing Pay2Win games. A key reason I have stuck at Eve is because it is not Pay2Win. CCP think carefully about this. Did you somehow ignore the part where one can convert PLEX, purchased with RL money, into ISK in the secondary markets? Well I kept on topic certainly, but I am no fan of that either. It's on topic insofar as it is evidence against your point. Eve has been "P2W" for a very long time. It's fundamental to its existence, really. Goodness knows I wouldn't have stuck around Eve for as long as I have if there wasn't a ready supply of people willing to pay my subscription in exchange for my space shekels. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2035	Posted - 2015.10.15 18:42:18 - [56] - Quote NorthCrossroad wrote: Hi All the things that you said are bad like the current Bazaar or inability to change some attributes of the character are indeed need some work on. But aren't there others way to do it? Like, more in line with the actual game? If you want to clear your background and change your name f.e. - either pay PLEX/Auru or do a very specific mission arc, which will get the player to work to make it happen (you do remember that we need a much better version of mission system, right? Good starting project over here). If you want to allow characters (especially younger) to somewhat fasten their skill progression - create a mission arc that will award some "inhibitor", that will be usable by the character itself. And in these "inhibitors" have the diminishing return as you described, so older players won't get that much benefit. But for the love of god, stop even thinking about selling SPs for cash. P.S. I wonder, how did guys in CCP chose whose name will be under the DEV Blog? Did Rise do something very wrong? Name changes and history wipes are nice in theory, but the preponderance of third party sites that track and cache this information would make it a fool's game to use and in fact would be a greater red flag than the unwanted corp history in the first place. Even with a name change, the character's internal character_id wouldn't change. This allows one to plug it into a database like evewho's and get the real scoop on the character. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2037	Posted - 2015.10.15 18:45:29 - [57] - Quote Malice Redeemer wrote: Querns wrote: Rivr Luzade wrote: Querns wrote: They are pretty much forced to do this, honestly. Otherwise, everyone in eve would generate bastard farms whose only purpose is funneling SP to their main character. They are not forced to to this. CCP instead should be coerced to develop proper, engaging and awesome game content that makes people want to stick around (see a couple of my suggestions for example openly brags about it). This is not that content, this is nothing but yet another money grab that requires no real effort or development cost from CCP to actually improve the game. Developer time is not fungible, and CCP is able to work on multiple things at once to no ill effect. This argument comes up time and time again any time something even remotely unpalatable arrives and I'm tired of hearing it. This isn't the argument you think it is, at all. He says that this takes no virtually devtime, so the idea that he is complaining about wasted dev time is ridiculous. He is saying that the fix for CCP's cash woes is devtime on content, not bandaids on game mechanics. Read what was said next time, and not what you wanted to hear. Actually, it's perfectly applicable. He's arguing that Feature X was released and that it is an outrage because Feature Y should have been released instead. That falls foul of the "developer time is perfectly fungible and CCP has no ability to multitask" trap, even with the admission that Feature X was "easy" to do. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2037	Posted - 2015.10.15 18:46:52 - [58] - Quote Tiranius Avetus wrote: So you will sell time (the most valuable resource in EVE) for money. ******** idea... Do they not have the Character Bazaar where you live? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2039	Posted - 2015.10.15 18:59:49 - [59] - Quote Mai Ling Ravencroft wrote: Skinzee wrote: RL MONEY => PLEX => CHARACTER BAZAAR => 100M SP CHARACTER RL MONEY => AUR => SKILLPOINT BOOST => 100M SP CHARACTER Difference? CHARACTERS BIRTH DATE NO BAD CHARACTER HISTORY FOR SKILLPOINT BOOSTED CHARACTER. Disagree? Why? The difference is that most new players have no clue the Bazaar exists, which means they have to play for a while, learn the basics and either find a group or stumble on it over time. Which means that they have a bit more skill than a first day pilot, with a fat wallet and no clue. Or, to put it another way, it's an arbitrary barrier to entry for newer players. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2039	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:03:40 - [60] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: Tiranius Avetus wrote: So you will sell time (the most valuable resource in EVE) for money. ******** idea... Do they not have the Character Bazaar where you live? This argument is also disingenuous, There is a fixed number of character slots per account, and managing an increasing number of accounts becomes increasingly annoying/problematic. Practically speaking, If I want to fly Sleipnirs TODAY on my main, buying an extra character wouldn't be my solution. But with this system? Let's run some incursions for that dank sp! You're the one who insists on it being your "main." Main characters are practically meaningless in a world where the Character Bazaar exists. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2039	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:04:58 - [61] - Quote Skilo wrote: Skinzee wrote: Vrarrg wrote: No this is a horrible idea, if you are really hurting for money then listen to what we have been saying and get those things done. Instead of trying to make the game P2W or even F2P. There have been several good ideas over the past few years you guys pass up or don't even care about. This is a whole new low for CCP to reach. PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY THIS CHANGE WOULD MAKE IT PAY TO WIN? You are sitting on your char, the char you created and like. Suddenly FCs come with a new fleet ideia You need to fly Machariels You look into your char and think. damn 34 days for me to be able to fly those You can always buy a char ofc but on your char .... nope Now with this you can simply go and buy the skillpoints you need, place it on your char ... you can fly a machariel Pay To Win You're placing a very strange emphasis on the skills being on any particular character. Why? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2039	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:05:56 - [62] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: This protects the prestige associated with a long commitment to a character? What a joke. It does the opposite. Single worst change in the game ever. Fortunately, there is no such prestige. Everyone masturbates; it doesn't make it meaningful to others. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2039	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:11:35 - [63] - Quote Reiisha wrote: Stupidly bad idea. This is going to get abused like no tomorrow. Expect maxed 600m sp characters within days of the release of this feature. At least make it so that 80 or 100m+ sp character don't gain any sp whatsoever via this feature.... I can understand the need to get up to 40-60m quickly, but above that.... I'll be honest, i like my vet status! :P What, exactly, is the abuse of having all 5s skills? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2039	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:15:13 - [64] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: Tiranius Avetus wrote: So you will sell time (the most valuable resource in EVE) for money. ******** idea... Do they not have the Character Bazaar where you live? This argument is also disingenuous, There is a fixed number of character slots per account, and managing an increasing number of accounts becomes increasingly annoying/problematic. Practically speaking, If I want to fly Sleipnirs TODAY on my main, buying an extra character wouldn't be my solution. But with this system? Let's run some incursions for that dank sp! You're the one who insists on it being your "main." Main characters are practically meaningless in a world where the Character Bazaar exists. Well that, and the number of characters per account is fixed. So the number of times I can use the character bazaar to fill my "sp needs" is 3supported accounts. Keeping in mind that the average number of accounts per individual (last time the figure was released at some fanfest IIRC) was 2.2. So, the typical player you can use the character bazaar 6 times to fill their needs and then you HAVE to train the old fashioned way. This new method? Farm those incursions for SP as long as you want. You grind Gnolls in WoW for XP, you grind Sanshas in Eve for SP.* I guess they don't have buddy programs or allow unused accounts to expire where you live. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2039	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:16:03 - [65] - Quote drunklies wrote: Eternal Bob wrote: Don ZOLA wrote: I mean F*CK his 12 years of efforts Explain what effort is required to gain skillpoints. The effort involved in researching, planning, and implementing those 12 years of skills. I mean, someone spending 12 years perfecting something passive shouldn't count as having done anything. Gardeners are by this logic, worthless. What? There's no planning or research involved with training. You plug things into evemon. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2040	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:19:12 - [66] - Quote Pistonbroke wrote: If this goes ahead, I for one will finally say enough already, and bid farewell to eve, and hello to one of the other games which are rapidly making steps ahead, such as [...] Star Citizen I, too, pin my hopes on a confidence scam whose primary purpose is to repay debts owed to an organized crime syndicate. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2040	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:21:08 - [67] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Well that, and the number of characters per account is fixed. So the number of times I can use the character bazaar to fill my "sp needs" is 3supported accounts. Keeping in mind that the average number of accounts per individual (last time the figure was released at some fanfest IIRC) was 2.2. So, the typical player you can use the character bazaar 6 times to fill their needs and then you HAVE to train the old fashioned way. This new method? Farm those incursions for SP as long as you want. You grind Gnolls in WoW for XP, you grind Sanshas in Eve for SP.* I guess they don't have buddy programs or allow unused accounts to expire where you live. Most people I know don't have legions of unused accounts. A nuisance, impractical and inconvenient. How is it inconvenient? The account doesn't consume resources or take up space. Also, you're significantly overestimating the number of times any one person would rush out to the character bazaar and snatch up a custom-made character just to stay ahead of the FOTM. Hell, after five years of playing, my main character can fly pretty much any subcap in eve, and I wasn't really even training specifically for any ship; i just started plugging in fives to fill the queue. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2040	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:23:08 - [68] - Quote drunklies wrote: Querns wrote: drunklies wrote: Eternal Bob wrote: Don ZOLA wrote: I mean F*CK his 12 years of efforts Explain what effort is required to gain skillpoints. The effort involved in researching, planning, and implementing those 12 years of skills. I mean, someone spending 12 years perfecting something passive shouldn't count as having done anything. Gardeners are by this logic, worthless. What? There's no planning or research involved with training. You plug things into evemon. Eve mon def existed 12 years ago. Point is, they still went through the effort of doing it, and no one else has, not to that extent. Having to struggle with a nascent skill system and without the tools necessary to manage it does not somehow entitle those ancient souls to anything. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2044	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:24:57 - [69] - Quote Stalking Mantis wrote: The fact that CCP is even tossing this idea around tells me volumes on their current financial situation. I had doubts before this post. Granted I took a year and three month break from EVE awhile back and came back to servers that had 15 to 20 thousand people on them instead of the 60 to 90 thousand people on them. I can't blame CCP for trying to spin this idea. I really do believe they are desperate for cash. Speaking of cash how is all that cash you poured into DUST doing? Like it or not CCP is losing money and they already alienated their veteran players from the Jita riots onwards to the latest Fozzie sov. They really have put them selves into a situation where they really do need to appeal to new players as they already lost a huge chunk of players in the past year or two. I really love this game, but the utter nonsense the devs keep thinking up instead of listening to the player base. Case in point I assure you this was not even screened on the CSM before this blog. EVE is in a downward spiral.....don't believe me? compare server numbers today with two years ago...I am talking more than a 300% drop. This is FORCING CCP to try to appeal to newer players, such changes might not appeal to us the people that have played EVE for years. But this tells me CCP is in alot of trouble due to years of mishandling the EVE community that they are now forced to think up things like this to appeal to new blood. You're overreacting quite a bit to the Aurum cost of the thing. Any transfer of SP between players HAS to have an associated drawdown on CCP's liabilities or else they are deliberately reducing their capacity to do so. This looks VERY bad to any investors they have. It's financial suicide and they'd be fools to consider it. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2044	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:28:54 - [70] - Quote drunklies wrote: Not having done so does not entitle those mewling newbies to anything either. SP injectors aren't an entitlement. They're an option. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2044	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:29:58 - [71] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: Also, you're significantly overestimating the number of times any one person would rush out to the character bazaar and snatch up a custom-made character just to stay ahead of the FOTM. That's my whole point: people don't do it because it isn't practical in most cases. But now - Farm some gno...Sanshas in the barrens..err high sec to get your SP to level up...errr get your skills to V and get that sweet new raid gea...errr FOTM ship. This is not appreciably different than the Character Bazaar. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2044	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:32:22 - [72] - Quote Vic Jefferson wrote: And now characters themselves are malleable, losing some of their associated uniqueness. Like the one thing EvE still does faithfully is characters and personalities actually having weight, meaning, and gravitas. A great deal of this would be lost if characters were made to factory specifications. Veteran players make New Eden go around. They are the teachers, the instigators, the patrons, the leaders, the storytellers, and the FCs that make the game....a game. Veterans that feel what they have is being eroded are not the most likely candidates to get people hyped about playing. You live in a very strange world. The Eve I experience is rife with purchased characters and one's sense of identity is only tied to one's jabber account or forums account. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2044	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:33:09 - [73] - Quote Josef Djugashvilis wrote: It is clear that the majority pf posters are very much against this idea, which means that CCP rather than dropping the daft idea, will offer to tweak it. After eight years in the game, I finally and with great sadness, get to say, "Eve is dying" and mean it if CCP persist with this hare-brained scheme. Oh dear... Ah, yes, good ol' argumentum ad populum. An old friend, come to visit. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2044	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:33:58 - [74] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: Also, you're significantly overestimating the number of times any one person would rush out to the character bazaar and snatch up a custom-made character just to stay ahead of the FOTM. That's my whole point: people don't do it because it isn't practical in most cases. But now - Farm some gno...Sanshas in the barrens..err high sec to get your SP to level up...errr get your skills to V and get that sweet new raid gea...errr FOTM ship. This is not appreciably different than the Character Bazaar. Yes it is. The SP queue, as opposed to grdinding gnolls in the barrens, is one of the principal differences that separates eve from the lesser mmos. Removing that difference in the name of accessibility is a mistake and a loss. The SP queue can be bypassed by the Character Bazaar. You can even fund these purchases on your first day by converting purchased PLEX into ISK. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2044	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:35:20 - [75] - Quote Don ZOLA wrote: Querns wrote: Having to struggle with a nascent skill system and without the tools necessary to manage it does not somehow entitle those ancient souls to anything. Consistency is what matters. Loyalty. You do not change fundamentals after 12 years. Because that way you trick player base, ie your customers. I am sure if they started like p2w game, EVE would be dead long ago, I doubt it would even make 5 years. Frankly, not really. An ancient player's subscription is not worth appreciably more than a new player's. You could argue that older players have more accounts, but given that the account/player ratio is about 1.5, this falls flat on the grand scale. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2047	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:37:26 - [76] - Quote drunklies wrote: Querns wrote: drunklies wrote: Not having done so does not entitle those mewling newbies to anything either. SP injectors aren't an entitlement. They're an option. An option born of entitlement, of people wanting to bypass the hoops that everyone else jumped through. And before someone jumps in saying something about wanting to make everyone suffer, you are missing the point. It's the experience that is valuable, not the 'suffering'. Removing the need for that experience means you are devaluing the quality of the players available, simply because they do not have the experience that other players do. The fact that an older player had to jump through hoops does not somehow make it required that new players also have to jump through the same hoops. Your suffering is not sacrosanct or even meaningful at all. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2047	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:38:50 - [77] - Quote deathpain wrote: QUESTION: How did this go from an idea, through managment, then the CSM, all the way to being a devblog without even one person stopping and thinking, hmm I wonder what the player bass will think of this idiotic idea? Community feedback has sharply limited value, especially in the case where an entitlement is being threatened. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2047	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:40:39 - [78] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: [ You're talking about buying a whole new character, I'm talking about improving an existing one. There's a difference, a big one. There really isn't. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2047	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:43:53 - [79] - Quote drunklies wrote: Querns wrote: Don ZOLA wrote: Querns wrote: Having to struggle with a nascent skill system and without the tools necessary to manage it does not somehow entitle those ancient souls to anything. Consistency is what matters. Loyalty. You do not change fundamentals after 12 years. Because that way you trick player base, ie your customers. I am sure if they started like p2w game, EVE would be dead long ago, I doubt it would even make 5 years. Frankly, not really. An ancient player's subscription is not worth appreciably more than a new player's. You could argue that older players have more accounts, but given that the account/player ratio is about 1.5, this falls flat on the grand scale. It does go deeper then that though. Older players for the back bone of eve in many ways, they provide the services, the support, industry, corp management an a bunch of stuff i dont understand. Yes, new players could do this, and might, but don't say that old players are worth only as much as new. At the very least they have the benefit of proven loyalty. Even if this is true, only a very small, very foolish portion of old players actually believe that having a big SP number matters or that having to alarm clock to start a new skill matters in TYOOL 2015. We can suffer their loss easily. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2047	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:46:04 - [80] - Quote Don ZOLA wrote: Querns wrote: Don ZOLA wrote: Querns wrote: Having to struggle with a nascent skill system and without the tools necessary to manage it does not somehow entitle those ancient souls to anything. Consistency is what matters. Loyalty. You do not change fundamentals after 12 years. Because that way you trick player base, ie your customers. I am sure if they started like p2w game, EVE would be dead long ago, I doubt it would even make 5 years. Frankly, not really. An ancient player's subscription is not worth appreciably more than a new player's. You could argue that older players have more accounts, but given that the account/player ratio is about 1.5, this falls flat on the grand scale. Frankly, then you do not know much about how business works. Regardless is it game or not. As we are all customers here. Customer`s loyalty is something companies work on for decades. And you do not get customers loyalty without being consistent. If company does not have respect for existing customers, by changing the fundamentals which are one of the reasons those customer became loyal then it will not have respect for new ones either. And no matter how much you spam/argue/challenge on this forum in order to get some personal gain, it cannot influence how that relationship works. While I agree that vets subscription is not worth even a single dime more than new players, still, people who spent thousands of bucks through years are one of the main reasons this game still exists. Because way more people got in the game by invitations, referrals, buzz created by players than CCP marketing activities. Loyal customers made it. And they should be treated with respect. This is a fairly outmoded belief. Loyalty is actually extremely unimportant in TYOOL 2015. If loyalty was important, Half-Life 3 would already be out. However, with the success of Dota 2, Team Fortress 2, and CS:GO, there's absolutely no financial reason to honor the loyalty of die-hard Valve lovers by releasing Half-Life 3. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2050	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:47:38 - [81] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: You're talking about buying a whole new character, I'm talking about improving an existing one. There's a difference, a big one. There really isn't. Then why don't more people buy a new character everytime the FOTM changes. You said it yourself: Querns wrote: Also, you're significantly overestimating the number of times any one person would rush out to the character bazaar and snatch up a custom-made character just to stay ahead of the FOTM. Big difference between committing to a whole new character and farming some sanshas to get more SP for an existing, established character. Grinding gnolls to level up vs. Character bazaar. Not the same thing, not at all. It's actually the same thing. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2050	Posted - 2015.10.15 19:49:43 - [82] - Quote Rumbless wrote: If this happens, I quit. Holding your subscription hostage is a time-honored tradition, and I'm glad to see you are honoring your ancestors in this fashion. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2051	Posted - 2015.10.15 20:23:02 - [83] - Quote Sean Parisi wrote: I want to re-iterate. That if you do support this idea, you should NOT support diminishing of SP for toons with higher skills. If SP is to be directed traded the tax should be the Aurum / PLEX needed to move it. Not the SP itself - SP requires a player sub / money to produce - as such it should never be diminished based on the BS of prestige. If CCP follows that logic I would support this idea. That's not possible. The only interaction with Aurum in this entire process is to purchase the extractor item. The item then has to be used on a player to extract skillpoints, which consumes the extractor and spawns a new item. At this point, the link between the extractor and the Aurum spent is severed, and the extracted SP item can ONLY be sold on the player market. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2051	Posted - 2015.10.15 20:24:30 - [84] - Quote Don ZOLA wrote: Loyalty is exactly what will get old HL players to get new HL as well, no matter when it comes out. Their loyalty comes from previous experiences and they have understanding why it takes so long. As everyone`s expectations about it are quite high and it is not easy to make great games to live up to those expectations. It takes time and they will wait. All companies are trying the best ways to make loyal customers, to make them repeat buys etc. Loyalty and customers happiness ie customer`s feelings. One unhappy customer will make bigger impact than 5-10 happy customers, only it will be negative.Sorry but I do not want to spend time on explaining that, nor it is the main subject. You can google it, listen some of the world best speakers on that subject, read books if you want to find more about it. I just hope CCP has some people with knowledge, who can measure threats and side effects of such moves. Half-Life 3 is not coming out. Sorry to burst the bubble. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2053	Posted - 2015.10.15 20:27:21 - [85] - Quote Ong wrote: FML you guys really didn't learn from the monocle fiasco did you? Just straight up no. The most I would even consider is some way to rename and possibly re-map skill points, but buying skill points?!?! It would make eve one step away from being free to play and full micro transactions, and we all know that's the final nail in any mmo's coffin. ******* fire whoever came up with this idea......seriously. How are so many people misunderstanding the mechanic here? You don't buy SP directly with Aurum. You can only get it from the player market. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2053	Posted - 2015.10.15 20:52:02 - [86] - Quote Elinara Yamamoto wrote: This sounds like a really bad idea... what would stop me dropping 5000 or more $ on PLEX and massively raising my SP? This in turn would lead to me eliminating a massive chunk of my motivation for playing Eve, the long wait for the reward of having something new trained, more Level 5 skills and so forth... If one argues I could just soil my fun already by buying a char from bazaar, no I can't. I can only play characters that i created, that are very close to my real self etc... otherwise my immersion is ruined. PLEASE CCP don't do this. So, you derive your fun from deliberately handicapping yourself? You can still continue to do so. No one is forcing you to acquire skill boosters at gunpoint (or post-point.) This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2054	Posted - 2015.10.15 20:55:37 - [87] - Quote Kanzero wrote: Why is everyone sperging? This will NOT create sp out of nowhere. Players will have to extract their own sp in order to sell it to other players. No new sp is created, it's just redistributed. It's typical kneejerk posting. Seeing Aurum/PLEX mentioned in conjunction with SP causes brain shutdowns and foaming at the mouth. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2054	Posted - 2015.10.15 20:58:26 - [88] - Quote Jack De'alek wrote: This idea has very gamebreaking implications. As it is right now, each individual character has a theoretical maximum sp. If I had been perfectly optimized and training skills at a rate of roughly 2500sp/hr, I would have significantly more sp than I do now. This of course would have been impossible, or near to it, given that this character's attributes were static based on my race and lineage choices. This idea could, and will, for those with deep enough pockets, push characters beyond their theoretical maximum and effectively trivialize pilots who have been faithfully playing for years. The only way I would support this idea is if characters could never exceed that theoretical sp number, because as someone who has stopped training for months at a time, it would benefit me immensely. If however, one could not inject skills or sp beyond theoretical maximum limits, then new players could never benefit from it. On the same token, characters my age who were more "dedicated" (loosely using the term because my commitment to my subscription has always been linked to my rl finances rather than my desire to pay/play) than i see less benefit as well. Not gonna lie, I've often fantasized about being able to buy my "missing" skill points in one fell swoop, but just because I would stand to gain tremendously from this idea doesn't mean it isn't a terrible idea. No, CCP. Don't do it. Eve has always been a long term game. Do not radically alter the purest, most brilliant game to date for the pursuit of a few more subs. Instant gratification types never last here in New Eden, and completely breaking the game isn't going to keep them around any longer. You're just going to betray your loyal followers. The blowback from this will be disastrous. You have a very strange concept of "purity" when the Character Bazaar exists, brazenly allowing you to circumvent these imagined ideals. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2056	Posted - 2015.10.15 21:07:01 - [89] - Quote Rob Kashuken wrote: CCP has always maintained that if you could fly a ship / use a certain mod before skill modifications, you will always be able to use it. Will this remain the case? If so, then whilst the ROI is bad, you could rapidly get a new character into any ship, then strip the SP and either list them on the bazaar as "perfect links characters" etc. This does not mean what you think it means. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2056	Posted - 2015.10.15 21:10:20 - [90] - Quote voetius wrote: If it is just a way to bring the Character Bazaar in to the game and make things more transparent then it would be a good thing. However, I do wonder if CCP have thought about the possible side-effects. E.g. would eve gambling sites be allowed to have SP packages as "rewards"? How would this be somehow wrong? It's just an in-game item. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2056	Posted - 2015.10.15 21:18:39 - [91] - Quote Carrie-Anne Moss wrote: Greed is Good! Winter of Rage 2015-2016. Pay2Win Isk4SP CreditCard2100millSP Hell no ccp. Wtf is wrong with you. Greed is NOT good holy hell wrf How is this even remotely related to "Greed is Good"? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2056	Posted - 2015.10.15 21:22:19 - [92] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Cash to CCP for 500k SP transfers. This isn't the end, but you can see it from here. CCP already takes its pound of flesh for character transfers. Thinking that they'd remove it in this case is idiotic. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2057	Posted - 2015.10.15 21:28:33 - [93] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Cash to CCP for 500k SP transfers. This isn't the end, but you can see it from here. CCP already takes its pound of flesh for character transfers. Thinking that they'd remove it in this case is idiotic. You missed the point. And, as an aside, you've already done a good job of showing us why character transfers are not the same as SP transfers: Querns wrote: Also, you're significantly overestimating the number of times any one person would rush out to the character bazaar and snatch up a custom-made character just to stay ahead of the FOTM. Mechanically, no, of course it's not the same. However, that's not the point -- the new mechanic doesn't actually add any new capability to the game, other than the ability to sap SP out of a pilot's head, if for whatever reason you needed to do that on its own merits irrespective of material benefit. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2057	Posted - 2015.10.15 21:29:57 - [94] - Quote adriaans wrote: No. No. NO. NO Very bad idea! I do NOT like this. Please do not do this. Pay for character rename or re-model, that is perfectly fine. Skillpoints, not a chance in hell I will ever support that. The existence of the Character Bazaar must really irk you. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2060	Posted - 2015.10.15 21:41:55 - [95] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: If, some years ago, you told me that by paying a small fee to CCP + some in-game mechanism I could directly add as much SP as I desired, to any character that I desired? I would've laughed. Eve was about meaningful choices, long term planning. But now? Well....like the man said: "It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here." "Some small in-game mechanism" is literally liquidating the SP of others, and applying it imperfectly towards your character. I suppose if you were deliberately obtuse and boiling down the whole thing into that disingenuous quip then it'd be different. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2060	Posted - 2015.10.15 21:46:23 - [96] - Quote Aristash wrote: If CCP adds Skills for Aurum(plex) Aristash and 3 other alt's will stop paying for Eve online. Stop doing stfu thing with my Eve! Kick producers of Eve right now, You must playing in Eve then do something with game. CCP you are not playing anymore. Shame on you... Good thing they are not adding Skills for Aurum, then. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2060	Posted - 2015.10.15 21:47:37 - [97] - Quote Fredou wrote: No please no I'm not going to read the previous 44 pages why on earth would you want to do this? really i have started playing eve nearly 10 -+ years ago i have over 230m sp you can gain about ~ 24m per year why would you want to kill this? How do the proposed changes kill anything? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2060	Posted - 2015.10.15 21:48:44 - [98] - Quote Arec Bardwin wrote: Colt Blackhawk wrote: Lots of hysteria here without any reasons behind it. Eve is already pay to win and some "pro" vets are now crying. Just show me the difference between: a) Buying plex with money, selling it on market and then buying a char for isk on the character market. b) Buying plex with money, seling it on market and then buying skill points for isk from another character. Yep there is none :P Apart from the fact that the new idea is a lot more comfortable. But hey we have a "vets cry thread" now. Sometimes I think the old players are killing this game. Eve is already pay to win. All you need is isk or RL money to buy toons and multibox. You realise that the pro vets with unlimited wallets would profit the most from this, don't you? How? They have to spend ten times as much ISK for the same benefit as a new player would. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2060	Posted - 2015.10.15 21:52:19 - [99] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: If, some years ago, you told me that by paying a small fee to CCP + some in-game mechanism I could directly add as much SP as I desired, to any character that I desired? I would've laughed. Eve was about meaningful choices, long term planning. But now? Well....like the man said: "It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from here." "Some small in-game mechanism" is literally liquidating the SP of others, and applying it imperfectly towards your character. I suppose if you were deliberately obtuse and boiling down the whole thing into that disingenuous quip then it'd be different. It's not obtuse at all. I pay money to CCP. I gain arbitrarily large amounts of SP on an arbitrary character of my choice. Someone else loses some arbitrary number of SP. It's a clever twist, but, here's the rub, this still happens: $$$ to CCP <------>Direct, instant, arbitrarily large SP gain on any character of my choice. It's like SOMER Blink. Lot's of stuff happened in that scheme, people won prizes, community events were organized, etc. But, in the end, RMT still happened. You can twist it all you want, but RMT is RMT. And here? Yeah, there's a twist. The matador has a shiny red cape with the word "liquidating" embroidered and everything. But, in the end, I am buying instant, bulk SP for my character with cash going to CCP. It is what it is. Direct purchase of bulk SP via CCP. Again, as I have strenuously pointed out, the character bazaar does the exact same thing. Has for years. CCP gets theirs on every transfer. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2060	Posted - 2015.10.15 21:55:19 - [100] - Quote Jack De'alek wrote: Yes, the bazaar exists, but in it's form it is still impossible to circumvent maximum possible sp. As I said, I would benefit immensely from the purchase of sp, but I'm disinclined to believe that any implementation of any feature that allowed characters to surpass these limits is a good idea. Allowing characters to inject skills breaks a CEO or recruiter's ability to properly vet recruits and secure themselves against potential loss. Quick battlefield assessments can no longer be counted on to find weak links in enemy fleets. To that end, those that prey on the weak will no longer be able to choose victims properly. Basically any informed decision that can be gleaned from character age through a quick show info or any other method short of an api check is no longer accurate. The above are just a couple of tangible examples of the results of such a system. All i'm saying, is the consequences of allowing characters to exceed their maximum SP are gamebreaking, or at the very least game changing, and I'm fairly sure there's plenty more I haven't thought of. I really don't think it's a good idea. Why does "maximum possible SP" matter to anyone, or anything, at all? Why do you need to "vet" recruits by SP? The character bazaar exists. Furthermore, simply plug the following formula in: SP / pilot age = 2700 and if it's above that, it's a red flag. Using pilot age to perform battlefield assessments is a laughable concept. Again, the character bazaar exists. I have only been playing since 2010, yet I own a 2007 character. The whole concept is incredibly brittle. You've probably lost quite a bit by relying on it, and don't even realize it. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2063	Posted - 2015.10.15 22:05:24 - [101] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: No it doesn't. As per your quote here: [quote=Querns] Also, you're significantly overestimating the number of times any one person would rush out to the character bazaar and snatch up a custom-made character just to stay ahead of the FOTM. SP Transfer for existing characters in arbitrarily large amounts and buying a character grown by someone else are two very different things. And if they are no different, we have no need for this new system. And we aren't talking about buying another character or a second account training, We are talking about the purchase of bulk SP applied instantaneously to a character of my choice. It's a three party transaction: $$$ to CCP<----->Instant, Bulk SP to the buyer<---->SP loss and Isk gain to the seller. But here's the problem. This fcking bit still happens: $$$ to CCP<----->Instant, Bulk SP to the buyer* And no matter how much you repeat it,instant bulk sp to an arbitrary character is not the same thing as purchasing a character off the bazaar. It's the same thing. You give money to another player, he gives you SP. CCP gets a cut in the form of a reduction of their liabilities. The new system is only different in its granularity. All this focus on applying it to a specific character makes no sense. Who cares what character the SP is on? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2067	Posted - 2015.10.15 22:06:34 - [102] - Quote Mara Rinn wrote: Tyberius Franklin wrote: Mara Rinn wrote: I am amused that the "solution" to the character bazaar being out-of-game is to destroy it entirely. SP for money is a bad idea. The people most able to exploit this feature will be those setting up short-lived characters on new accounts. The beauty of the character bazaar is that you are paying for the right skills, not just a number of SP. Bonus points for clean history and a good name. Rather than SP for ISK, bring the character bazaar into the game. Allow ads on bulletin boards and CQ screens. It's actually gaining SP from equal or more SP+money given up. It's essentially the bazaar without buying the name and history with the character. It's nothing like the Bazaar. You are buying SP for Aurum to allocate where you want. The bazaar is about buying complete entities, with skills trained where you want them (by someone who knew where to train, ideally), and there is no option to remove skills you don't like or swap SP around. Did you read the devblog? The only part of the transaction that involves Aurum is purchasing the extractor in the first place. Players have to spend SP, then sell the filled extractor on the open market. This is not even remotely the same thing as "money for SP." This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2067	Posted - 2015.10.15 22:09:09 - [103] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: Again, for the "how is this different from the character bazaar crowd": 1. Make 5 alts. Train them at Maximim SP/h, the skills you train don't matter. Just go for spaceship command skills, no need to respec. 2. Transfer it all to one Charakter until he hits 50M That way you can effectively train more than 4 times as fast as you normally would and no, those SP are not being taken out of the game, but created just for the purpose. People are already creating alts just for the CB, and they will do that as well for that new Extraction bullshit, only that this time, turnaround times are much quicker. Make 5 alts. Train them at maximum SP on a skill plan that is in-demand. Sell them on the Character Bazaar. Use the proceeds to buy a character with the skills you want. Exactly the same thing. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2067	Posted - 2015.10.15 22:11:50 - [104] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Querns wrote: Arec Bardwin wrote: ]You realise that the pro vets with unlimited wallets would profit the most from this, don't you? How? They have to spend ten times as much ISK for the same benefit as a new player would. You think they care? they have trillions of ISK and nothing they can spend it on. Say bb to PLEXing your account because it will sky-rocket, say bb to SP for ISK because you will never have the ISK to buy them. Why would I spend trillions of isk barely improving the same character? I can already fly all T1 subcaps and nearly every T2 subcap, and I only have 100m SP. I also have alts to fly all the capital ships I'm interested in flying. If you're arguing that a rich person who also has the mental defect where he thinks that the total amount of SP he has matters can gorge himself on meaningless SP for ships he never flies and game the eveboard top SP leaderboard, then I say "more power to him." Means the profit of my bastard farm goes up. It literally has no consequence to anyone possessing even a modicum of rationality in their think pan. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2067	Posted - 2015.10.15 22:13:27 - [105] - Quote Devin Wallace wrote: Querns wrote: Reiisha wrote: Stupidly bad idea. This is going to get abused like no tomorrow. Expect maxed 600m sp characters within days of the release of this feature. At least make it so that 80 or 100m+ sp character don't gain any sp whatsoever via this feature.... I can understand the need to get up to 40-60m quickly, but above that.... I'll be honest, i like my vet status! :P What, exactly, is the abuse of having all 5s skills? More importantly, like I've mentioned twice now and is readily apparent in the actual devblog, paying to skill a character even as high as 80 million ISK would cost THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. THOUSANDS. "A fool and his money are soon parted." - Elvis Presley in The Matrix This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2068	Posted - 2015.10.15 22:15:12 - [106] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: Querns wrote: Make 5 alts. Train them at maximum SP on a skill plan that is in-demand. Sell them on the Character Bazaar. Use the proceeds to buy a character with the skills you want. Exactly the same thing. No, it's not. I want to create a Mothership alt. Training one would take what? a year - no idea. Training 5 characters and transferring the SP would take 3 Months, and I don't even have to worry about market availability. Training the five characters and then using their sale proceeds to buy a supercarrier alt would be the exact same amount of time, plus or minus a small random factor for availability. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2068	Posted - 2015.10.15 22:16:58 - [107] - Quote Mara Rinn wrote: Querns wrote: Did you read the devblog? The only part of the transaction that involves Aurum is purchasing the extractor in the first place. Players have to spend SP, then sell the filled extractor on the open market. This is not even remotely the same thing as "money for SP." I did not realise that the SP packages would sell for 0 ISK. Why does the ISK cost of the filled extractor matter? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2068	Posted - 2015.10.15 22:17:50 - [108] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Querns wrote: Ima Wreckyou wrote: Querns wrote: Arec Bardwin wrote: ]You realise that the pro vets with unlimited wallets would profit the most from this, don't you? How? They have to spend ten times as much ISK for the same benefit as a new player would. You think they care? they have trillions of ISK and nothing they can spend it on. Say bb to PLEXing your account because it will sky-rocket, say bb to SP for ISK because you will never have the ISK to buy them. Why would I spend trillions of isk barely improving the same character? I can already fly all T1 subcaps and nearly every T2 subcap, and I only have 100m SP. I also have alts to fly all the capital ships I'm interested in flying. If you're arguing that a rich person who also has the mental defect where he thinks that the total amount of SP he has matters can gorge himself on meaningless SP for ships he never flies and game the eveboard top SP leaderboard, then I say "more power to him." Means the profit of my bastard farm goes up. It literally has no consequence to anyone possessing even a modicum of rationality in their think pan. Who cares about leader boards? He will buy it because there is nothing else he does not already have and he can perfect his character and win EVE. Today, I learned that hitting rank 5 in all skills causes the end credits to roll for Eve: Online, noted spaceship-themed spreadsheet. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2068	Posted - 2015.10.15 22:24:42 - [109] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: Querns wrote: Make 5 alts. Train them at maximum SP on a skill plan that is in-demand. Sell them on the Character Bazaar. Use the proceeds to buy a character with the skills you want. Exactly the same thing No, it would not. Yes, after x time you will have the same amount of skill points over all characters involved. However, with the new system you have that one character you need much quicker and exactly like you need it. On the character bazaar you can only buy an alt, if one is available. It will more than likely not be perfect and you will have to compete with other potential buyers. With the extractors, you just make it yourself. With 5 training accounts in 1/4 the time, with 10 in 1/8, beyond that it will probably be even quicker than looking for a suitable alt on the market. So, your argument is that the new system is a little more efficient than the character bazaar? That a small increase in efficiency is the straw that broke the camel's back? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2069	Posted - 2015.10.15 22:29:47 - [110] - Quote Jessica Danikov wrote: Quesa wrote: This is ***** stupid. Why does Rise still work for CCP? I'm gonna stop you right there. CCP Fozzie rightly complained about Fozziesov taking after his namesake, the stuff he writes about often represent the work of a whole team, not just himself. There's no way this is just the result of CCP Rise. There will be buy-in from executive management, from marketing, from legal, this kind of thing doesn't just happen in vacuum. Team Size Matters are likely the developers and designers who are working on the details and implementing this feature. CCP Rise is the fella bringing us the words. Don't be a ** trying to shoot the messenger. ESPECIALLY their financials people. Adding a new character transfer mechanic messes with their bottom line. According to the devblog, there are 70 transfers a day. That's 140 plex a day, or 4200 a month. That's a pretty big "shadow" subscriber count! They will be reticent to alter that without buy-in from people who manage money at their company. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2071	Posted - 2015.10.15 22:35:52 - [111] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: Querns wrote: So, your argument is that the new system is a little more efficient than the character bazaar? That a small increase in efficiency is the straw that broke the camel's back? Is this so hard to grasp? If you are hungry - what would you rather have? Seven pizzas next week, or one pizza right now. The new system would allow anyone with enough money in their bags to create - yes "create" exactly the characters they want in a very short time. Can you not see how that completely devalues the whole training and skillpoint progression thing? I am not a big fan of the CB, but I see how it helps keeping the E-Bay character trading at bay. But this new system is completely over the top. Yes, it's more efficient, but you know what would be even more efficient? If everyone started out with every skill at 5. Efficiency is not always good in game mechanics. I'm failing to see how any of this is bad. Characters in Eve are not special. They are commodities to be bought and sold. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2071	Posted - 2015.10.15 22:36:41 - [112] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: The new system is only different in its granularity. Wrong. I can't buy instant bulk sp for this or any arbitrary character in the old system. I can in the new system. World of difference. Cash to ccp. Bulk, instant, and arbitrarily large SP for any character of my choice. If you claim this is the same as the character bazaar, you're lying through your teeth. No, I'm just able to see things without a blood haze over my vision. It's the same thing. Characters in eve are not special. They are commodities to be bought and sold. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2071	Posted - 2015.10.15 22:39:05 - [113] - Quote Nuke Chicken wrote: Goons screaming about how great this is because they will benefit most, Like they did from fozzie sov. And im not sure we should pander to an alliance that holds the theory of 'create as little content as possible for our enemies' How do you get this? We haven't implied that the system benefits or hurts us in any particular way. Also, most of the "screaming" is me; I have 11% of the total post count in this thread and 66% of the Goonswarm Federation post count. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2071	Posted - 2015.10.15 22:41:36 - [114] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: Dirk MacGirk wrote: You seem to be assuming no cost to the extractors. There will be market competition for those as well. Probably more competition than seen on the bazaar for characters. Sure you can train those alts and transfer the SP to yourself, using an extractor for every 500/400/200/50k SP the recipient character will get out of them. But it will also only be for SP over 5 million on each of those alts, so there will always be a base of 5 million SP sitting on those alts that can never be removed. I dunno. Until we know the value in Aurum for the extractors, and then try and determine the price on the markets as supply and demand goes to work, we have no idea how cost effective this will be for anyone. Let alone what any of it might mean for actual gameplay in EVE. Probably very little. Buy extractors for Aurum (Which is real money) Buy 10 new Accounts for PLEX (which is real money) Start training those and have your very own Super in a month. The only place where the market comes into play is when you buy the skillbooks, and they are NPC seeded. Yes, it will probably be more expensive than buying a character from the CB, but that doesn't help. Or would you say, that P2W is less terrible if it's just expensive enough? You have to bootstrap the bastards with 5m SP in order to start harvesting them. You've grossly underestimated the startup cost. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2072	Posted - 2015.10.15 22:49:02 - [115] - Quote PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: The new system is only different in its granularity. Wrong. I can't buy instant bulk sp for this or any arbitrary character in the old system. I can in the new system. World of difference. Cash to ccp. Bulk, instant, and arbitrarily large SP for any character of my choice. If you claim this is the same as the character bazaar, you're lying through your teeth. No, I'm just able to see things without a blood haze over my vision. It's the same thing. Characters in eve are not special. They are commodities to be bought and sold. If you wanted 500 commandship pilots for a fleet, you were out of luck. Market never has that many in stock. But now? Buy all the sp you want and distribute it however you see fit, to whomever you see fit, instantly. It saddens me that some people can't see this system for what it is, or are too blinded by their own ambitions to care. Considering that the market also does not have an infinite supply of skill boosters, I fail to see the concern. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2072	Posted - 2015.10.15 22:49:50 - [116] - Quote Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Querns wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: The new system is only different in its granularity. Wrong. I can't buy instant bulk sp for this or any arbitrary character in the old system. I can in the new system. World of difference. Cash to ccp. Bulk, instant, and arbitrarily large SP for any character of my choice. If you claim this is the same as the character bazaar, you're lying through your teeth. No, I'm just able to see things without a blood haze over my vision. It's the same thing. Characters in eve are not special. They are commodities to be bought and sold. Mine isn't. It's your choice to live in deliberate ignorance of reality. I fail to see how the reality shifting a bit affects this. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2072	Posted - 2015.10.15 22:50:41 - [117] - Quote BirdStrike wrote: Next they'll decide it wasn't working as intended so they'll work 'just like plex'. 16.99 for a month of SP... And then they'll decide supercaps and titans are a bit like the character bazaar, all this messing about with third parties and auctions on obscure parts of the forum johnnywarcraft never visits. And that's a problem because now he's used this new system and specced up his nyx/erebus pilot he doesn't know where to buy them from, and well, saving the bother of buying 80 plex and selling them you'll be abe to get one direct from aurum store. Nice and convenient, insured of course. We can't have johnnys mommy ringing up mastercard and requesting a chargeback because pandemic legion wtfbbq'd his 1000 usd christmas present and he didn't know titans could die amd he only wanted to go mining in it and hes being bullied by masty men and wants his titan back...he dudn't even get to shoot them because nobody told him that his 100 usd thons modified mining kaser couldn't do that. And well, we can't have bad pr, so lets rent johnny a nice sov system for 100 usd a month complete with moon poo and asteroids where he can be left to mine in his titan, guarded of course by the 29.99 a month concorde upgrade that can wtfbbq the entire of goonfleet should they decide to stop by, Tinfoil hat maybe, but look what a certain company did to battlefield and tell me we aren't on the road to farmeville 4.99 chicken packs. Gosh, this slope sure looks slippery. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2072	Posted - 2015.10.15 22:51:39 - [118] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: Querns wrote: You have to bootstrap the bastards with 5m SP in order to start harvesting them. You've grossly underestimated the startup cost. So, pay to win is okay if it's grossly expensive then? The new accounts will come with a month of trial time and a plex through the Power of Two system. That's 2 Months for free, which is about 4M SP per character. So - no, I don't think I have grossly overestimated the startup cost not that it matters anyway. You know what else was expensive? Buying characters on the Character Bazaar. Mostly rich folks did it. Strange, then, that no one complains about this. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2072	Posted - 2015.10.15 22:59:07 - [119] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: Querns wrote: You know what else was expensive? Buying characters on the Character Bazaar. Mostly rich folks did it. Strange, then, that no one complains about this. Oh, As I said earlier, I don't like the CB either. But the CB being bad, doesn't mean they should make it even worse. "Oh, caught a cold? Then you surely don't mind a bit of cancer either" Yes, I do mind. The character bazaar is fine, and provides basically the only opportunity for new players to catch up to old players. It was critical for my gameplay. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2072	Posted - 2015.10.15 23:02:49 - [120] - Quote Divine Entervention wrote: How does my being able to buy skill points for myself negatively impact you? It lets you approach their meaningless number more closely with your meaningless number. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2074	Posted - 2015.10.15 23:07:26 - [121] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: Querns wrote: Divine Entervention wrote: How does my being able to buy skill points for myself negatively impact you? It lets you approach their meaningless number more closely with your meaningless number. Not even close, but then again I doubt someone who bought there first character would ever understand. Is this supposed to be attributed against me? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2074	Posted - 2015.10.15 23:08:27 - [122] - Quote Don ZOLA wrote: Querns wrote: PotatoOverdose wrote: Querns wrote: The new system is only different in its granularity. Wrong. I can't buy instant bulk sp for this or any arbitrary character in the old system. I can in the new system. World of difference. Cash to ccp. Bulk, instant, and arbitrarily large SP for any character of my choice. If you claim this is the same as the character bazaar, you're lying through your teeth. No, I'm just able to see things without a blood haze over my vision. It's the same thing. Characters in eve are not special. They are commodities to be bought and sold. Characters are special. Characters (players behind them) and corporations they run made this game what it is. They have made the game special. Entity, Chribba, Grendell, Lord Zap, Tank CEO, SirMolle, Mittens, voogru, Istvaan Shogaatsu, Arachvoid, Shamiz Orzoz etc etc. I could name hundreds of characters heavily involved in making EVE what it is. Are they just commodities? I find your approach quite shallow. That is why I can understand why you pushing so hard for something what will probably personally gain you, without caring about the whole picture. As mentioned numerous times - if this meant to help the new players it will fail. Unless they are willing to drop significant cash in it, which rare ones will probably do. And that makes it unfair to heavy majority of other new players and also to older players. Only thing CCP can get in begger numbers from this is older players redoing or getting new alts. And probably shtloads of unhappy customers on the other side. Set sail for fail. As mentioned earlier, one of the essences of the EVE was being tough and hard. It kinda represents RL in space. All sorts of people, economy, politics, wars, decisions, actions and reactions, choices and consequences.. If you start deleting those what will the game turn into? So people should stop whining about wrong choices in past but live with the consequences. Or CCP should start fixing everyone`s stupidity or change of interest? Stop complaining about not having same amount sp as vets, you could have started playing earlier. Or whatever. Life is not fair. Same with EVE ;) It was never before so easy to make isk. Go buy ships, chars or whatever you want. Do not screw the game even more to make it easier for lazy ones. Man the fck up and play. If CCP wants to find way to attract and keep new players then they should focus on that instead of proposing such "innovations" which will have more negative effect than benefit for players and therefore for themselves as well. As the majority new players will not benefit from this. Those are people, not characters. Any one of those could currently or have in the past sold their character and continue to be the "big name" that they are. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2075	Posted - 2015.10.16 00:20:04 - [123] - Quote Don ZOLA wrote: Those characters represent people. Eve wondered why none of them was sold? Because they are not commodities. People bond with their characters, with time and efforts which they had put in them and what those characters present. But that even was not the main point of my post, that was just a simple example of chars not being commodities. The point is that this will have no real benefit for new players and plenty of side effects and. And that it is potentially great threat to EVE. And if that`s all you had to say on my post then I congratulate you for 50 pages of trolling. Since you obviously have no intention to work/discuss on actual improvement of the game I suppose you are just trolling or you are working in the opposite direction of my intentions (improving the game), for any reason there might be. Since most of other comments who are supporting this idea are alts, I am glad that community has strong vote for NO. Though I hope even more people states that this idea is ********, so CCP does a "reality check" and see in how wrong direction they are going and that they have to change their mindset and vision to actually improve the game for the sake of the game and players. The people would continue to persist if their characters were sold. I support bettering the game, and making the character bazaar nightmare more fluid and more accessible is an unmitigated good. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2075	Posted - 2015.10.16 00:29:42 - [124] - Quote Emileon wrote: Wow..Just wow, As a player since '09, I've seen this game go through many changes and this by far would be one of the worst if not the worst that CCP has ever come up with!! Does anyone remember "Greed is good" and the burn jita event it spawned? At the time EVE was a really healthy game and even though it lost some players it was able to rebound. This is not the case this time around, EVE cannot afford that type of mistake again, but yet it seems like you guys are trying it anyway. If this goes through the development stage into the game, it will kill the game once and for all. CCP, EVE is already hurting and player retention is not that great, so what do you do? Go ahead and come up with a horrible idea and the screw over the players still keeping EVE going! This will in effect take yrs off of people's playing efforts and since SP is an integral part of the game, it will push older players out of the game in record numbers. If you really don't want EVE around anymore, just turn it off, don't make it go through a Hollywood death scene first! What's horrible about being able to sell some of your SP or buy some of someone else's? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2075	Posted - 2015.10.16 00:30:31 - [125] - Quote Maraner wrote: What the ever ** is this . Did someone just take a big dump of ** to the brain. Maybe they should extract their own packet and flush it now before the rage monster takes full flight. This is flat out pay to win. NO NO NO NO there... opinion given. It's not. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2075	Posted - 2015.10.16 00:39:27 - [126] - Quote Emileon wrote: Querns wrote: What's horrible about being able to sell some of your SP or buy some of someone else's? I also have sp that I really don't use or need anymore but it was paid for and trained by either plex or cash and took years to accumulate. This is nothing more than a basic pay to play with cash going to CCP for the privilege. This will fundamentally change the game to the point where its a point and shoot game with no background or history. If it was going to do that, it would have happened a long time ago care of the Character Bazaar. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2075	Posted - 2015.10.16 00:40:54 - [127] - Quote Don ZOLA wrote: Querns wrote: The people would continue to persist if their characters were sold. I support bettering the game, and making the character bazaar nightmare more fluid and more accessible is an unmitigated good. Of course they would, but they are not selling them anyway. Because they are not commodities to the most of the people. Except it does not benefit new players, which is original idea? Awesome idea then. The fact that it didn't happen with such a small sample set is telling of absolutely nothing. The diminishing returns mechanic supports low-SP players more than it does high-SP players. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2075	Posted - 2015.10.16 00:42:02 - [128] - Quote Winter Archipelago wrote: You know, the more I think about this, the less I dislike it. I still hope that there are faster decays in return, and I want to see a hard cap, but I'm actually warming up to the idea. The biggest concern in my mind right now is how much it'll cost. Too low, and it'll be abused to Hell and back. Too high and it'll be useless. What I don't get is the "abuse" angle. What's the abuse? Goosing your SP to maximum doesn't somehow also afford you the ships or the real-life skill to use them well. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

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